patrick.net

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I have to admit, I'm having trouble finding this, since now it's so long ago, or maybe I WAS deceived.

I don't think this quote exists. Both sides in this war are a mix of Russians and Ukrainians. One of the most extremist units of Ukrainian "volunteers", namely Donbass battalion, was predominately Russian speaking, at least at the beginning of conflict (perhaps they have learned Ukrainian by now). Their leader was an ethnic Russian, from Crimea. The truth is rarely as simple as either side in conflict paints it.

My point is again though, the US caused all this mess by overthrowing the Ukrainian government, and they didn't do this for the welfare of the Ukrainians. They did this MOSTLY to cause problems for the Russians, and I don't understand why this is in US interests and I don't think it is - not that the criminal syndicate that runs the US cares about US interests.

The US should leave Russia alone and if they want, make rock solid agreements to the importation of Russian petroleum to Europe.

It's stupid, absolutely stupid, to restart the cold war, arms race bullshit with Russia again - but it gives the Federal Reserve more power, and gives the world an excuse to continue to support the toilet paper called the US dollar if Russia is "threatening Europe". What we really ought to do, is go after all the owners of the Federal Reserve and threaten to assassinate them. If there's any retaliation, to exterminate their entire family line.

Remember, this is a mafia family that brought us into WWI and WWII.

Bd6r says

exactly. + it is easier to keep deeply religious populations in check, especially if gov't is a puppet of some foreign power

I don't believe this is in US' interests.

It's probably in favor of the Federal Reserve.

Remember, we were energy independent about a year ago.

Our enemy is domestic, not on the other side of the world. It's in Langley Virginia, Washington DC, and parts of Silicon Valley - yes - but it's really the Federal Reserve. Destroy that, and that fixes a hell of a lot of things, including corruption.

richwicks says

and they didn't do this for the welfare of the Ukrainians

International politics is never about welfare for anyone else other than the ruling class. I think that is obvious.
richwicks says

It's stupid, absolutely stupid, to restart the cold war, arms race bullshit with Russia again

You can't justify spending trillions to fight goat herders with AK's for a very long time. One needs a more reasonable opponent.

In principle, it should be Ukrainians, not Russians, or Americans, or whomever else, who decide what will happen with Ukraine.

Bd6r says

In principle, it should be Ukrainians, not Russians, or Americans, or whomever else, who decide what will happen with Ukraine.

They were denied this when US, UK and Russia ganged up on them and demanded their full nuclear disarmement in exchange to "security and territorial integrity assurances". How these "assurances" are working is on full display right in front of our eyes: they were attacked by one of the guarantors and got genereous shipment of blankets and gauze from the other two. Good luck with persuading any other country to not pursue their own nukes or surrender the ones they already have.

Eric Holder says

They were denied this when US, UK and Russia ganged up on them and demanded their full nuclear disarmement in exchange to "security and territorial integrity assurances".

Another FACT that is quite uncomfortable for persons supporting Russia/Putler.

Non-intervention in other countries should imply US also staying out of situations like this. Without US guarantees, Ukraine would have kept their nukes and would not be invaded.

Bd6r says

Eric Holder says

They were denied this when US, UK and Russia ganged up on them and demanded their full nuclear disarmement in exchange to "security and territorial integrity assurances".

Another FACT that is quite uncomfortable for persons supporting Russia/Putler.

Non-intervention in other countries should imply US also staying out of situations like this. Without US guarantees, Ukraine would have kept their nukes and would not be invaded.

BTW, Kazakhstan and Belarus were similarly disarmed at the same time and under the same "assurances".

Bd6r says

Non-intervention in other countries should imply US also staying out of situations like this. Without US guarantees, Ukraine would have kept their nukes and would not be invaded.

Considering the credibility of the US government, nothing they claim they want to do can be trusted.

They haven't told us the truth ONCE in why they've started a war in my lifetime. Well, maybe Grenada and the Falkland Islands, but the rest, all pure bullshit.

richwicks says

Considering the credibility of the US government, nothing they claim they want to do can be trusted.

They haven't told us the truth ONCE in why they've started a war in my lifetime. Well, maybe Grenada and the Falkland Islands, but the rest, all pure bullshit.

The text of treaty can be found here: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/v3007.pdf?source=patrick.net

p 167/193

Eric Holder says

Bd6r says

Eric Holder says

They were denied this when US, UK and Russia ganged up on them and demanded their full nuclear disarmement in exchange to "security and territorial integrity assurances".

Another FACT that is quite uncomfortable for persons supporting Russia/Putler.

Non-intervention in other countries should imply US also staying out of situations like this. Without US guarantees, Ukraine would have kept their nukes and would not be invaded.

BTW, Kazakhstan and Belarus were similarly disarmed at the same time and under the same "assurances".

All this bullshit could be avoided by having the leaders of each nation publicly make the agreement, while being recorded in a public display.

That's something that always pissed me off about the Palestinian and Israeli conflict - all they had to do was say "this is what is being offered as a two state solution" publicly and let the negotiators agree or disagree. Instead, we have to WONDER what was actually offered or not offered. I've said it many times, it's just a big scam.

The agreements are distractions, never meant to be adhered to. The agreements are for public consumption, they aren't actual agreements.

richwicks says

All this bullshit could be avoided by having the leaders of each nation publicly make the agreement, while being recorded in a public display.

Seriously? You think it was some kind of hush-hush secret deal? It was public AF. It was celebrated as a great achievement on both sides of the ocean.

FuckCCP89 says

richwicks says

All this bullshit could be avoided by having the leaders of each nation publicly make the agreement, while being recorded in a public display.

Seriously? You think it was some kind of hush-hush secret deal?

Seriously.

Explain to me why offered agreements are kept secret and we're left to speculate on what was offered and why the agreements were not taken?

FuckCCP89 says

It was public AF. It was celebrated as a great achievement on both sides of the ocean.

Show me a link.

My position at this point is that governments are criminal syndicates that don't represent their population, and will sell them out for personal advantage at a moments notice.

Let's see those public agreements.

richwicks says

FuckCCP89 says

richwicks says

All this bullshit could be avoided by having the leaders of each nation publicly make the agreement, while being recorded in a public display.

Seriously? You think it was some kind of hush-hush secret deal?

Seriously.

Explain to me why offered agreements are kept secret and we're left to speculate on what was offered and why the agreements were not taken?

FuckCCP89 says

It was public AF. It was celebrated as a great achievement on both sides of the ocean.

Show me a link.

Are you for real? You claim to be in your 50s and yet completely unaware of nuclear disarmament happenings of the 90s? What kind of fucking link do you need exactly? A proof that societies in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus were aware that their countries are being disarmed in exchange to security assurances from US, UK and Russia? It's a fucking fact: the whole process of signing the deal and then transferring the nukes, destroying the missiles and strategic bombers was all over TV and newspapers.

Go ask Ukrainians, Kazakhs or Beloruses about it - you claimed you are capable of talking to them, didn't you?

Link and excerpt from this treaty is above in my post #122. It is as public as it gets

FuckCCP89 says

Are you for real? You claim to be in your 50s and yet completely unaware of nuclear disarmament happenings of the 90s?

I'm 50 and 9 months, almost to the day. I'm not unaware. I'm questioning why offers for agreements are not made PUBLICLY available? This is in regard to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. We can only speculate on what is offered for a Palestinian state.

What are the conditions for the end of sanctions on Russia or Iran? What is the US demanding?

The same thing happened with Hussein and the United States.

It seems to me that goalposts are constantly moved. Well, I'm actually quite certain they are.

FuckCCP89 says

What kind of fucking link do you need exactly? A proof that societies in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus were aware that their countries are being disarmed in exchange to security assurances from US

What are the offers to reduce conflict? What are the conditions?FuckCCP89 says

It's a fucking fact: the whole process of signing the deal and then transferring the nukes, destroying the missiles and strategic bombers was all over TV and newspapers.

Newspaper and tv are propaganda. I want the agreement offered directly to the parties involved. Our media is propaganda. They will blatantly lie and have, you know this as well as I do.

FuckCCP89 says

Go ask Ukrainians, Kazakhs or Beloruses about it - you claimed you are capable of talking to them, didn't you?

I've talked to Ukrainians. I only wanted to know if they were aware their nation was overthrown by the United States. They are.

@richwicks is talking out of his ass on the subject of Ukraine/Kazakhstan/Belarus nuclear disarmement. If he really wants to be taken seriously in this thread I suggest he stops empty bloviation and starts educating himself on the stuff he missed during his 50 yrs 9 month uninformed life.

I suggest listening to this two-part panel on the subject - most of the people participating were personally involved in the deal on 3 sides (US, Ukraine and Russia):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zPmBfi0gMWU&source=patrick.net
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mXa51uKNJH8&source=patrick.net

richwicks says

FuckCCP89 says

Go ask Ukrainians, Kazakhs or Beloruses about it - you claimed you are capable of talking to them, didn't you?

I've talked to Ukrainians. I only wanted to know if they were aware their nation was overthrown by the United States. They are.

And this is how we know you didn't talk no Ukrainians. You're simply parroting Russian bullshit, like RT and such. I fucking work with 20-people remote team of Ukrainians in Ukraine: not a single one thinks the moronic thing you spout here.

richwicks says

FuckCCP89 says

Go ask Ukrainians, Kazakhs or Beloruses about it - you claimed you are capable of talking to them, didn't you?

I've talked to Ukrainians. I only wanted to know if they were aware their nation was overthrown by the United States. They are.

And this is how we know you didn't talk to no Ukrainians. You're simply parroting Russian bullshit, like RT and such. I fucking work with 20-people remote team of Ukrainians in Ukraine: not a single one thinks the moronic thing you spout here. They do think that US has shirked its responsibilities wrt Budapest memorandum and quite mad at Obama/Biden admin for not providing adequate military aid in 2014-2016.

richwicks says

Newspaper and tv are propaganda. I want the agreement offered directly to the parties involved. Our media is propaganda. They will blatantly lie and have, you know this as well as I do.

I gave you the link to signed treaty above.

Well I'm learning stoof! I don't know anything about anything with respect to E. Europe other than the cold war sucked balls when I was a kid and how surprised I was as an adult to meet so many who've moved over here to the states working in biotech who are super cool.

On the other hand, these guys harass me about not being married (while chomping down on yummies their wives sent to work for them) and warning me about how E. European women will poison their food if they piss them off.

just_passing_through says

about how E. European women will poison their food if they piss them off.

We're very lucky here. They will only poison you if you have substantial life insurance.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

FuckCCP89 says

Go ask Ukrainians, Kazakhs or Beloruses about it - you claimed you are capable of talking to them, didn't you?

I've talked to Ukrainians. I only wanted to know if they were aware their nation was overthrown by the United States. They are.

And this is how we know you didn't talk to no Ukrainians. You're simply parroting Russian bullshit, like RT and such.

I know a man that is an ex-patriot in Ukraine. He's from Oakland California.

His Skype account was "hacked" and from that point forward doing an obvious scam, I've had no contact from him since.

I suspect he was murdered, but I don't know. I wasn't a fast friend with him, but all contact has been terminated.

I know, with absolute certainty that the US did a coup d'etat there. There's no question. That's proven, without question with Victoria Nuland's statement of "Fuck the EU". At the time, this nation was selecting the next puppet leader of Ukraine. There's no question about that.

My friend, who now may be dead, agreed with that. The people I talked to who CLAIMED to be Ukrainian agreed with that. I could have been talking to Russian intelligence or anybody else, I don't know.

What I do know, is for certain, that Ukraine did not have a Maidan Revolution. Everything else, I will find out if it's true or false in time.

The people thought they had something to uprise over.

Now they turned off the power, that will calm things down I'm sure.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/25/millions-left-without-power-after-huge-blackout-hits-central-asia?source=patrick.net

It could be just people manipulating the price of Bitcoin, as all the Crypto miners from China fled to Kazakhstan when the CCP outlawed crytos. Without those mining operations going it could put upward pressure on the price of Bitcoin. Then again maybe it was the mining operations themselves that caused the power to go out.

No telling really, but I'm sure the regular people are pissed.