patrick.net

Just because you can make money off of something does that mean you should?

https://earthweb.com/cryptocurrency-statistics/?source=patrick.net
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70. Bitcoin Is in The Top 30 of Entities that Use Energy in The World
And the rest of the entities in the top 30 are countries.

71. The Amount of Carbon that Bitcoin Miners Emit Is More than The Entire Country of New Zealand
This includes industrial, power, commercial, and transportation emissions.

72. Bitcoin Uses the Same Amount of Energy as All Worldwide Data Centers
This stat shows that Bitcoin is taking up a lot of the world’s energy.

73. Bitcoin Mining Surpasses Gold Mining in Energy Intake
This means that mining for Bitcoin takes up more global carbon emissions than mining for gold.
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Does posting this make me a hater?

I'm going to go copy it to the hater thread.

Onvacation says

you should?

Good enough, as far as that goes.

But does that also mean that you're against trading (or buy 'n hold) mainstay stalwarts like let's say Altria or British-American tobacco, both of which give great dividends but also add to the smoking addiction problem with society?

Can you name me a “currency” that only works when electricity is on, the internet is working unrestricted and a user has time to wait for a ledger to process enough ones and zeros? Yeah, that seems like a great idea. No matter what anyone says you should buy that one, people are going to love it! Elon Musk bought it so it must be legit. And look, trading analysis, see I told you it was legit!!

Rin says

All and all, that's a bullish market with a high amount of sentiment on the upside. So until we see a general overall market meltdown, I'm not calling curtains on the cryptos.

IMO it all rides on USD demand which is very strong unlike the false opinions from nearly every angle USD is the main counter trade and it's strong holding down for the time being commodities, crypto and the other major 7 fiat currencies as a whole, but not for much longer as we see commodities jumping at the bit this last week .

This is my thought on the matter, the inflation we are experiencing up to this time is mainly due to the supply chain predominately and we haven't even experienced the inflation a truly weak USD will bring that being the commodities super cycle bull market and will no doubt imo include crypto In this chart notice DXY price riding a top of the UBB which is very strong and I have little doubt it will test that spike near the top and then start to really roll over.



I believe the USD demand is due to all the institutions trying to close all those commodities short contracts before this happens to them all, and it will if they don't deal
and where do you think all that money is heading. https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/nickel-price-short-squeeze-chinese-tycoon-lost-billions-presses-bet-2022-3?source=patrick.net

Crypto is way larger then just BTC which is not the currency that is likely to be on the top list for a reserve currency what so ever.
But rather the initial path to the 4th industrial revolution with blockchains and all the protocols and unlimited applications that will be developed because of BTC.

https://crypto.jobs/?source=patrick.net
Just look at all the diverse companies looking to benefit from crypto....

Rin says

Can we have a non-hate mail vs fanboy thread on trading Bitcoin?

Can we have a title more inclusive to the crypto market in general and not center on BTC? Like I said Crypto is way larger then just BTC

PeopleUnited says

Can you name me a “currency” that only works when electricity is on, the internet is working unrestricted and a user has time to wait for a ledger to process enough ones and zeros?

Your fiat at the bank is not immune just ask the Canadians and Russians when the ones and zeros was turned off at their banks.

If you want to understand, then read the book "A random walk down wall street". If your trading bars strategy with 50 day moving averages worked, you would be a billionaire, with people piling in money for you to continuously beat the market.

This isn't a throwdown, or "hate mail". This is simple statistic analysis of trading across a wide variety of income producing assets. The book "random walk" covers speculation. Speculation is what the purchase of bitcoin is: a non-producing asset gamble on someone else buying it for a higher price. This isn't hate or drama. It's just a simple fact. Gold is also a non-producing asset. But it is also a commodity. It has a utility outside its use as a traded asset.

People speculate, purchase for use, and hedge (inflation) with commodities. Statistically, some speculators win, and some lose. Also statistically, over time, speculators in non-productive assets on average get lower returns on their speculative bets. Again, not hate, or debate, just simple fact.

With bitcoin, once again, people have gotten speculative fever, and have lost track of the simple math about investing in productive vs non-productive assets. So as with any speculative mania, some people will win, and some people will lose. This is just simple historical fact. And on AVERAGE, overall those speculating in bitcoin will do worse than those investing in productive assets.

A few of us are simply here to remind people of this simple mathematical truth so they don't lose their head, and waste their hard earned money, or worse, propagate the waste on their fellow man with simple bad math.

Zak says

Speculation is what the purchase of bitcoin is: a non-producing asset gamble on someone else buying it for a higher price.

I think it's betting that Bitcoin (or other cyber currency) will become a significant currency in the world verses governments will persecute people who own or use it because it is a threat to the government losing control of the nation's currency. So, it's in a different league of speculation than other non-producing assets.

SunnyvaleCA says

Zak says

Speculation is what the purchase of bitcoin is: a non-producing asset gamble on someone else buying it for a higher price.

I think it's betting that Bitcoin (or other cyber currency) will become a significant currency in the world verses governments will persecute people who own or use it because it is a threat to the government losing control of the nation's currency. So, it's in a different league of speculation than other non-producing assets.

Well said. It is essentially a bet that you are smarter than the globalists and better at timing markets than the other investors.

Pretty much everyone knows that in the future there will be a digital currency used around the world for day to day purchases. But if you don’t believe that, you could bet against it and buy BTC and try to sell it before it becomes obsolete ( Either by government intervention or collapse of the Ponzi scheme).

Governments hate bitcoin, banking oligarchs hate bitcoin, average people don’t understand bitcoin, and therefore unless bitcoin can win over government, bankers and the average person, it will lose, or rather investors in it will lose. Congratulations to those small number of individuals who have made real wealth from it but beware: HODLers will be left holding the bag.

Cash says

the commodities super cycle bull market

Are zeros and ones a commodity?

PeopleUnited says

average people don’t understand bitcoin,

And those that do would not touch it.

At least you can smoke tobacco.

Onvacation says

PeopleUnited says

average people don’t understand bitcoin,

And those that do would not touch it.

At least you can smoke tobacco.

Tell that bullshit to all these people they would get a big laugh

Crypto development Jobs out the ass!!! What an opportunity fortunately these people arn't so bias as to not see the truth.
https://crypto.jobs/?source=patrick.net
CryptoJobs is the #1 website for blockchain jobs. We believe the emergence of blockchain technology and decentralized applications will change the world as we know it, and it’s already happening. We’re on a mission to connect talented individuals to the best blockchain projects, to accelerate the advent of a more decentralized world.

Browse by categories
Browse by top locations

Rin as you can see the haters can't help themselves.
Rin says

Can we have a non-hate mail vs fanboy thread on trading Bitcoin?

Fuck no...

Cash says

Rin says

Can we have a non-hate mail vs fanboy thread on trading Bitcoin?

Fuck no...

Because the fan bois hate people that point out the truth of cryptocurrencies.

The risks aren't pretty, it sounds like you're saying...

"Naysayers, and Debbie Downers need not apply!"

If people didn't have their doubts one way or an other, then everyone would be in on it.

The only valid argument that Cryptoheads had was how safe and secure Cyrpto Currencies were. And how private your wealth would be, and safe from Fed prying eyes, and it would be a sure fire way to hedge against Social Demonetization.

Only in the last few years, the Obiden administration has revealed how Cyrpto Currencies would be even ten times easier to claw back and take from producers, than if they just buried their money in mason jars in the back yard.


Here's what we've learned so far.

1)Yes, if the Government has the desire to take money from you, they can reverse transaction, and take it from you.(See Pipeline hackers)
2)Yes, the Fed wants to control it, and centralize it by having all transactions go through the Federal Reserve. (See Bidens latest monetary polices.)
3)At any moment those at the top, can and will pull all of theirs out, while you're blocked from doing anything about it. All you can do is just watch it all evaporate. (See Dodge Coin and LGB coin pump and dump operation)

Crypto currency is the most compromised form of investing their is. What happens if all hell breaks lose and EM explosions take out much of the internet and servers that manage the Bitcoin infrastructure. Sure the transactions are distributed, but not the Bitcoin Enterprise that keeps it viable.

Which is another burning question I had earlier that has been answered. What happens when the company running a crypto currency goes belly up?

Last year or earlier this year there was a new Coin, that people thought was going to be the next big thing. People put in millions, but then the folks running it, just took the money and ran, then declared bankrupt. Left the suckers holding the bag.

Another thing that bothers me about Crypto.

It's supposed to be an alternate currency, but everyone is hedging it like it's a Commodity or Investment. It was created and first touted to be used as a currency.

But less than 5% of all transactions are actual purchase of goods. 95% of all transactions are people flipping BTC back and forth.
So now the market is so saturated, that every copy cat is doing the same thing. Now there are so many, I can't see how it will ever be used for purchasing.

Cash says

Rin says

Can we have a non-hate mail vs fanboy thread on trading Bitcoin?

Fuck no...

Lol... References from earthweb haha...

@cash I'm mostly interested in bitcorn. I do believe most if not all the rest are shit coin in the long (sometimes short as Tenpound noted) term. What's your deal with XRP? Isn't that globalist coin?

Zak says

If your trading bars strategy with 50 day (*Rin adds in correction: 50 week for longer term trending) moving averages worked, you would be a billionaire, with people piling in money for you to continuously beat the market.

Well, I was one of the starting junior partners at a hedge fund and yes, using that 50 MA as a starting point, did work if you built a money management strategy around it. Sure, I'm not a billionaire (instead, a low level new millionaire) but our top trader from London is worth well over $200M dollars today.

I suspect that if he keeps going the way he does, he may reach that billionaire point by retirement.

It's not like "Oh, it broke 50 MA, everyone 'GO LONG'! It's more like, "Ok, there's a 50 MA correlation, if we kept the bullish calls below 50 MA at 40%-50% positional, can we up that to 60%, until a trend confirmation is held, and then we'll max it to 70%" That's the difference between being a trading house and being a bunch of yahoos out there who either double up or double down, every time a non-farm payroll announcement is made.

My near term prediction in yellow:

This is why I'm only risking my dividends from overpriced blue chips like P&G or Exxon-Mobil because in effect, that dividend cash will be replenished within a year's time frame.

If this turns into a bearish flag, as oppose to a re-test of the bullish channel, which could easily happen if both the Russ2K & EUR/USD completely breakdown, then the loss of that re-occurring revenue from XBTF is $35 to $23 or ~35% of one's annual dividend payout.

That's no big deal from my perspective because if the general markets crash anyways, that money would have been lost in the DRIP with the overpriced blue chip stocks.

https://patrick.net/post/1343674?0#comment-1822813

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/how-bitcoin-mining-strengthens-electricity-grids?source=patrick.net

https://bitcoinist.com/new-york-bitcoin-mining-bill-receives-recognition/

The only reason I have heard for owning crypto is that it appreciates capital, i.e. goes up.

The problem is there is no real reason for it to go up except someone likes it more than you do.

When I saw a machine that took cash and gave you crypto in a convenience store in a shitty neighborhood I got a little clue; it was right next to the Lotto tickets.

I think they are both loser bets.

clambo says

gave you crypto in a convenience store in a shitty neighborhood

Well, those machines have moved on to better neighborhoods and thus, the suburbanites are on board for the next (if not final) run up.

FJB says

Lol... References from earthweb haha...

I know my bad but I couldn't help myself ;)
FJB says

I'm mostly interested in bitcoin. I do believe most if not all the rest are shit coin in the long (sometimes short as Tenpound noted) term. What's your deal with XRP? Isn't that globalist coin?

@FJB As far as XRP very soon it is likely to be the 1st crypto that is officially tested by fire in the US court system of law as to if XRP is a security or a currency? If things go the way it seems in the SEC vrs Ripple case and Ripple wins the case the SEC brought against Ripple the price of XRP has incredible high odds of exploding higher.

XRP ledger is already integrating through out the world and will likely be a gigantic part of the way money and value of most any asset you can name fiat, RE, commodities etc. moves across the world and settle, it is phenomenally interoperable. "Isn't that globalist coin?" probably not with the connotation of the WEF but rather as a utility out right replacing the SWIFT system ISO 20022 Repository or a light years upgrade to that system and that is the basis that I am speculating with XRP. https://ripple.com/ripplenet?source=patrick.net https://www.coinsuggest.com/bank-ripple-xrp/?source=patrick.net

The deal is when SEC brought the case the exchanges in US shut it down and stopped offering XRP the riches nation in the world from buying it where the rest of the world has not skipped a beat where many of the worlds countries and largest financial institutions has already excepted XRP as a currency. https://www.coinsuggest.com/bank-ripple-xrp/and?source=patrick.net likely the reason for the very high demand for developers in this space. https://boards.greenhouse.io/ripple?source=patrick.net https://crypto.jobs/?source=patrick.net

Currently I have 40+ stacks of different tokens that I am speculating with high odds on their utility becoming something in this space and yes there are 18500+/- coins and most after the courts settles Sec vrs Ripple lawsuit will most of them will be considered utilities...
.

@FJB Also keep you ears open when you read or listen to many world financial leaders bank and federal even here in the US talk about ODL and cross border pmts with inclusion. Ripple which was developed 2nd I believe 2012 even before ETH and has developed the largest network bar none of institutions using XRP ledgers for its ODL and instant pmt system and in part why there is such a high high demand for app developers in this space.... BTW I am still stacking XRP using DEFI exchanges.

FJB says

@cash I'm mostly interested in bitcorn.

Keep in mind brother both BTC and ETH could be in the SECs sight to sue due to they used ICOs in there beginnings which makes them a security not really a currency. The problem being the leaders in the SEC all were representing BTC and or ETH before, while and after working for the gov. collecting pay.

Cash says

XRP ledger is already integrating through out the world

I've seen the IMF shill for it big time. Dubious.

@Rin
From what you've seen, how well does 50EMA (or any other EMA or MA) work in a situation which strongly depends on external factors? Crypto is that, kinda: there are military conflicts, a country leadership may start a holy war against crypto, etc.

@FJB
Not sure your location but assume it's USA and so if you would like to get a stack of XRP to speculate let me know.
If you are in US using US regulated exchanges you can't buy XRP but just wait till this case is settled and it is re-listed.

BREAKING: The ECON committee of the EU Parliament just voted against the de-facto POW-ban: 32 against, 24 in favor.
https://coin.fyi/news/bitcoin/the-voting-concluded-the-eu-has-voted-against-the-pow-ban-tdzcwv?source=patrick.net

mostly reader says

@Rin
From what you've seen, how well does 50EMA (or any other EMA or MA) work in a situation which strongly depends on external factors? Crypto is that, kinda: there are military conflicts, a country leadership may start a holy war against crypto, etc.

Here's the thing, the 50 EMA, using long term price bars, like one candlestick per week (or month), gives the general trend of the market. And yes, external factors can wreck havoc which is why the Zimbabwe dollar is not highly active on the forex.

Let me illustrate the political situation with Hong Kong with its chart ...



As anyone can tell, the above is highly volatile & one could even say, unstable. Yet, using the long term 50 EMA, one can see the bullish vs bearish zones despite the fact that it's rough territory & thus, I don't expect to find many buy 'n hold types there except for those who're forced to live in Hong Kong & spend money there.

And I'm guessing that short term traders are very keen on having hard stop-losses when their position reverses.

FYI, I don't know of anyone who trades it.

Rin says

Well, I was one of the starting junior partners at a hedge fund

My take on this: you got your hands on other people's money, and made a commission on the biggest fed supported bull market in the history of the world, and you could have slept and mirrored VOO and been up how many percent since 2008? AND someone paid you commission to do so?

Hmm, so it sounds like you were good at finding an in to a hedge fund that can market to those willing to pay a commission. I get it.. I watched wolf of wall street. I know there are sheep to be shorn... Now that you've shown your colors as a marketing frontman to financial leeches, how are we supposed to trust you MORE that bitcoin isn't another of your greed is good cons? Especially since you ignore every sound long term asset purchase indicator in your promotion of it? Your answer is CHART ANALYSIS!??!?!?!?

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA

Zak says

how are we supposed to trust you

Because I told most ppl to simply buy tobacco stocks w/ DRIP ...

https://patrick.net/post/1343674?0#comment-1821891

Let me illustrate that with a dividend reinvestment calculator using the worst years for stocks, 2007 to 2010 for a $10K investment of Altria ...



So there you have it. If you don't want to swing trade crypto, then stick with tobacco for all of the time.

Rin says

So there you have it. If you don't want to swing trade crypto, then stick with tobacco for all of the time.

With that stated, using the DRIPs with Proctor & Gamble or Exxon-Mobil, one is buying blue chips at a market peak. In other words, they're too expensive.

Aside from Altria, British-American Tobacco, & Rio Tinto, I'm only using the dividend stream from the overpriced blue chips for the swing trade in bitcoin. This is money which will return automatically to my account, ever year, for as long as I own those equities.

Visa seeks new college grads for Crypto Development Program
https://cointelegraph.com/news/visa-seeks-new-college-grads-for-crypto-development-program?source=patrick.net
Successful candidates will, among many other tasks, "define Visa’s crypto strategy and identify new product opportunities."

Money Money Money ----- MONEY!!!

Cash says

Visa seeks new college grads for Crypto Development Program

Whenever I hear of this type of stuff, I go back to my 'buy 'n hold' tobacco stocks pitch because if you can't make money on smokers then you're never going to make money doing anything else.

This program sounds like a way of grinding promising young interns into an experimental track with only a glimmer of a full time gig but for the most part, spit 'em out with 1.5 years of Visa International on their resume.

Rin says

Whenever I hear of this type of stuff, I go back to my 'buy 'n hold' tobacco stocks pitch because if you can't make money on smokers then you're never going to make money doing anything else.

This program sounds like a way of grinding promising young interns into an experimental track with only a glimmer of a full time gig but for the most part, spit 'em out with 1.5 years of Visa International on their resume.

And do you know what? I don't give a flying fuck if that's the case it's on them... Any more lots of programming jobs are short term and not only that don't they like to use India cheap educated labor?

Rin says

Whenever I hear of this type of stuff, I go back to my 'buy 'n hold' tobacco stocks pitch because if you can't make money on smokers then you're never going to make money doing anything else.

It's all good you have the right to look at it anyway you wish...

And like I totally proved there is a big demand all over the world!!!
https://crypto.jobs/?source=patrick.net Jobs Galore, lots of them so high demand will = Money Money Money ----- MONEY!!!