patrick.net

Have to swap your points for coherency.

NuttBoxer says

So if you wanted to point to Zelensky, the fact that he was raised to speak Russian might be more of a contention point that his Jewish ancestry.

It's both. Both points are contention points, and both make it clear that "Ukrainian Nazis" are a boogieman created by Russian propaganda. I said it already, but apparently not everyone reads everything: it's not that they don't exist. They do indeed. It's that they exist in numbers proportional to those in Russia. Or possibly in US for that matter. Just looking at Zelensky should be enough to put this to rest.

NuttBoxer says

Not even the German Nazi's exclusively targeted the Jews. Only Zionists have pushed that viewpoint. The common theme between German Nazi's and all Nazi's who have followed is racism against anyone not of their ethnicity.

Given that "Final Solution" planned by Nazi Germany is not even up for discussion, I think that you just called German Nazis Zionists.

Patrick says

@FarmersWon

I'm not a Putin fan. I would not want to live under his rule in Russia.

But he does seem to be the enemy of our WEF/globalist enemies.

@patrick
Both Putin and NATO don't care about commoner lives is very clear.
Between the two evils, Putin is still bigger one based on How he setup secret police and oligarchs to oppress people.

I remember that there were millions of people marching against war criminal Bush, But no one is allowed to do so in Russia.
There is no moral equivalence here.

In isolation, NATO is quite evil too.

mostly reader says

"Ukrainian Nazis" are a boogieman created by Russian propaganda.

I heard Russia was behind the rigged 2016 elections, and had all kinds of connections with Trump. Before that they were the reason we needed all that defense spending in order to win the Cold War. Before that they were everywhere destroying our country and only Joe McCarthy could save us. And now they're why our economy sucks. I would bet you've even recently come to the realization they're to blame for something in your own life. Isn't it great when you realize all the worlds problems can be attributed to the boogyman.

Covidites got nothing on you.

NuttBoxer says

I would bet you've even recently come to the realization they're to blame for something in your own life.

I'd love to take that bet. For lotz and lotz of moneyz. Can you think of a practical way to make it happen?

https://markcrispinmiller.substack.com/p/on-israel-and-the-nazis-in-ukraine?s=r&source=patrick.net

mostly reader says

I'd love to take that bet. For lotz and lotz of moneyz. Can you think of a practical way to make it happen?

Why are you here? If you want to just flame, and pick trivial pieces to draw people into pointless arguments, there's so many bigger forums you can do that on. Ones where you'll get all the shouting matches you can handle, and then some. What you're doing here just wastes time. Maybe we're a bit nicer here, so it's safer for you?

NuttBoxer says

Maybe we're a bit nicer here, so it's safer for you?

Please. Not the "we". Not this "seeking group cover" thing.
To your question. There are indeed plenty of nice folks here, to which I reciprocate. Or make every attempt to. Keep in mind though: what's happening now is pure evil. As of 02/23 it got hard to be nice to those who actively and aggressively promote it.

mostly reader says

To your question. There are indeed plenty of nice folks here, to which I reciprocate. Or make every attempt to. Keep in mind though: what's happening now is pure evil. As of 02/23 it got hard to be nice to those who actively and aggressively promote it.

Didn't the COVID mandates begin in April, 2020? Two weeks to stop the spread turned into two years of useless masks, lockdowns that crushed the economy, and waves of suicide, drug abuse, and mental illness resultant from that?

Geopolitical reality is what it is. JFK risked full nuclear war to violated the sovereignity of an Independent Country to host what weapons from which Pole of the Cold War it wanted to. Nothing different happening in Ukraine.

"Lots of footage of Nazi salutes"? Like it's hard to hire some crisis actors to pose on camera?

Same people who are certain that all the blown-up tanks and ruined apartment buildings is "CGI" are lapping up not even "footage", but empty assertions about "lots of footage" being available. Jeezus!

How about some real proof of real Nazi atrocities? It's been 8 years. Where the fuck the footage of "genocide"? Where the fuck are "mass graves", "lamp shades", "gas chambers"? How the fuck Israel is quiet if Joos are being eradicated in Ukraine? Mossad doesn't know?

Patnet has collectively lost its mind and is fucking ready to buy bridges. PM me if you want one.

Patnet has been accused of lots of things wrt the "housing boom," "Covid pandemic," "election fraud," etc. If people think that Patnet is about uncritically embracing the establishment narrative, then they are either:

a) very new here
b) an internet troll
c) sadly suffering from mental decline/alzheimers/long covid
d) incapable of using the Socratic method or logical argument
e) never really grew up

Clue: Don't waste your precious time and mental resources arguing or trying to convince:
1. Oppositional Defiants, whose glory comes from frustrating all rational discourse merely to draw attention to an aberrant point of view that they change arbitrarily.
2. "My team rah rahs". Gaslighters who defend 'their team' either through personal economics or affiliations, no matter how deceptive, dastardly, or wrong their team is.
3. Agitprop repeating stations: Individuals of louche interpersonal situational ethics who repeat fake news because they think they have a vested interest in the outcome i.e. useful idiots waiting for the bullet.

stereotomy says

Patnet has been accused of lots of things wrt the "housing boom," "Covid pandemic," "election fraud," etc. If people think that Patnet is about uncritically embracing the establishment narrative, then they are either:

a) very new here
b) an internet troll
c) sadly suffering from mental decline/alzheimers/long covid
d) incapable of using the Socratic method or logical argument
e) never really grew up

Patnet is uncritically embrasing Russian establishment narrative. This very thread is a perfect example. Not a single previosly sceptical cunt asked a simple quiestion about proof of any supposed Nazi atrocities in Ukraine. They just lapping up whatever (constantly changing) reason for war is being offered by Putin/Lavrov/Zaharova et alia. "They were about to attack us!", ... no "There are Nazi genocide going on!", ... no "There are bioWEAPONS labs there!".... None of that has been proven, everything about all these occusations flies in the face of common sense, but it doesn't matter to our very sceptical peanut gallery.

Eric Holder says

stereotomy says

Patnet has been accused of lots of things wrt the "housing boom," "Covid pandemic," "election fraud," etc. If people think that Patnet is about uncritically embracing the establishment narrative, then they are either:

a) very new here
b) an internet troll
c) sadly suffering from mental decline/alzheimers/long covid
d) incapable of using the Socratic method or logical argument
e) never really grew up

Patnet is uncritically embrasing Russian establishment narrative. This very thread is a perfect example. Not a single previosly sceptical cunt asked a simple quiestion about proof of any supposed Nazi atrocities in Ukraine. They just lapping up whatever (constantly changing) reason for war is being offered by Putin/Lavrov/Zaharova et alia. "They were about to attack us!", ... no "There are Nazi genocide going on!", ... no "There are bioWEAPONS labs there!".... None ...

You have not yet selected the proper response from the choices enumerated.

stereotomy says

You have not yet selected the proper response from the choices enumerated.

I'm not playing childish games, pal.

I guess your answer, by way of psychological projection, is (E).

I merely restated the patently (pardon the pun) obvious purpose of Patrick's blog since the beginning. If you're not comfortable with that, or you think it's unfair, then that's a bone best picked with @Patrick.

I take a stand now for civil, logical discourse, at least here, because I know that it is respected.

The games you are playing are best won when playing with children. Perhaps more mature games would be more fruitful?

Eric Holder says

"Lots of footage of Nazi salutes"? Like it's hard to hire some crisis actors to pose on camera?

Same people who are certain that all the blown-up tanks and ruined apartment buildings is "CGI" are lapping up not even "footage", but empty assertions about "lots of footage" being available. Jeezus!

How about some real proof of real Nazi atrocities? It's been 8 years. Where the fuck the footage of "genocide"? Where the fuck are "mass graves", "lamp shades", "gas chambers"? How the fuck Israel is quiet if Joos are being eradicated in Ukraine? Mossad doesn't know?

Patnet has collectively lost its mind and is fucking ready to buy bridges. PM me if you want one.

Strong words for someone advocating nuclear war with Russia as a policy point.
I can’t decide if this is naive, stupid, or hopelessly ignorant? Naive would be thinking we can continue provoking Russia forever without major consequences. Stupid would be thinking a nuclear war wouldn’t be that bad. It would be apocalyptic, in fact. Even if you’re part of the 1.5% of Americans who survive, you’ll wish you hadn’t.
And ignorant would be not understanding the situation in context and seeing how dangerous the moment truly is.

Which one fits you the best?

https://www.rt.com/news/468097-ukraine-nazis-media-history/?source=patrick.net

From 2019

https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-links-ukraine-thriving-neo-nazi-movement/5774657?source=patrick.net

Western media have attempted to all but deny the existence of neo-Nazis in Ukraine, alleging that Russia’s goal to de-Nazify Kiev is not possible because Ukraine’s president is Jewish. But what is to be made of an Israeli Jew openly calling himself the co-founder of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion?

Kiev’s infamous Azov Battalion, officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine, has been widely acknowledged as a neo-Nazi volunteer paramilitary force. It has also been connected with foreign white supremacist organizations. In addition to this, the far-right, neo-Nazi and white-nationalist members in its ranks have even been criticized by the likes of Human Rights Watch and the United Nations for human rights abuses.

Despite the well-documented history of racially motivated crimes and attacks on Ukraine’s LGBTQ+ community, the battalion has been indirectly and continually armed by Western powers.

In June 2015 the United States and Canada banned the support and/or training of Azov by their forces, specifically citing its neo-Nazi connections. However, the following year the U.S. lifted its ban owing to pressure from the Pentagon. In 2019, The Nation magazine published an article in which it was stated that “[p]ost-Maidan Ukraine is the world’s only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces.” All of which is to say that Azov can conclusively be labeled neo-Nazi. ...

Prior to Azov becoming an integrated part of the Ukrainian military, the group was funded primarily by Ukrainian oligarchs, the most well known of whom was Igor Kolomoisky. Kolomoisky is of Jewish heritage and is an Israeli citizen and well-known billionaire businessman. Despite his being a Jewish Israeli, he had no problem pouring money into neo-Nazi volunteer militias such as the Azov and Aidar, among other far-right groups that feature elements hostile to Jewish people.

Although the Jewish president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is often held up by mainstream Western media as proof that there is no problem with neo-Nazis in Ukraine, he himself received financial backing from the same oligarch – Igor Kolomoisky – who was financing neo-Nazis. Zelenskyy’s presidential bid in 2019, which saw him win 73% of the vote, was successful on the basis that he was running in order to combat corruption and create peace in the country but, as the leaked documents known as the Pandora Papers revealed, he himself was storing funds in offshore bank accounts. Zelenskyy’s campaign was at the time boosted and bankrolled by the Israeli-Ukrainian-Cypriot billionaire Kolomoisky – who was himself accused of stealing $5.5 billion from his own bank.

Patrick says

Kiev’s infamous Azov Battalion, officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine, has been widely acknowledged as a neo-Nazi volunteer paramilitary force.

Acknowldeged by who? Same people who "acknowledge" Trump's supporters as "white supremacists"?

I've asked this question many times and all Putin's parrots keep dodging it: what evidence of Azov being Nazis exists beyond some sign which reminds somebody something? Azov has existed for 8 years already being formed as a response to Russian attack on Ukraine in 2014. It did not exist before that. Where are the mass graves of Joos? Where are the lampshades? Gas chambers? Anything? Bueller? Eight fucking years and all we hear is "but look at their patch!". Eight years in the times when everyfucking body and his dog have a hi-res camera in their pocket. Where is your famous skepticism? It evaporates the minute you hear that sweet Putin's voice in your ears, LOL.

PS. And besides, how big is a battalion? 500? 1000? Is existence of 1000 people supporting "wrong" ideology a justification to attack a 40-million country, displace 10 million (and counting), kill 2000+ civilians (and counting)? Really?

Patrick says

he himself received financial backing from the same oligarch – Igor Kolomoisky – who was financing neo-Nazis.

ROTFL.
Patrick, I don't even know how to break it to you. Igor Kolomoisky is also a Jew.

Eric Holder says

Acknowldeged by who? Same people who "acknowledge" Trump's supporters as "white supremacists"?

This would be a good point to question the sources which push this neo-Nazi agenda. Yet I totally expect a different result on patnet, in the form of yet another conspiracy convolution.

THERE IS A NAZI BATTALION IN THE US:




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party?source=patrick.net

500 is a bona fide battalion:

"A U.S. Army battalion includes the battalion commander (lieutenant colonel), executive officer (major), command sergeant major (CSM), headquarters staff, and usually three to five companies, with a total of 300 to 1,000 (but typically 500 to 600) soldiers."

Par for the course - the US went from subsidizing NAZI's and executing Patriots (Ruby Ridge, Waco), to executing Patriots (Covid "Vaccines") and supporting NAZI's (Ukraine).

Maybe so, since neither one is going to affect me in any negative way.

Be VERY careful with MEMRI.

Remember the claim that Iran wanted to "wipe Israel off the map"?

They have no such idiom in Iranian. What they were (reportedly) saying was that the Zionist government must go away, that it would collapse in time. There was lots of discussion about it at the time.

MEMRI has no problem mistranslating, and it's run by Yigal Carmen, an ex-IDF officer in the intelligence section. All intelligence agencies of the "western world" deal with disseminating propaganda. Something that has always bothered me is that the literal text of what is being spoken is never provided, which would allow an astute researcher to go through the pain of translating themselves, word by word.

Remember, the Palestinian Leadership, like the UVF/IRA in the 80s and 90s, or Colombian "Right Wing" Militia and "Communist" Groups, doesn't want a solution. They like it just the way it is, so they're only partially responsible for running things, can steal lots of UN Aid, delay elections years past they're due (if ever in the case of Hamas), and grift and whinge for more $$$. ALL of them have palaces and penthouses from Paris to Dubai. Even Villas in Gaza and Ramallah with 20 rooms and 6 bathrooms. KGB Agent Aref of "Plantation" (Big Farm) aka Yassir Arafat owned properties across France and the MENA, including a multimillon dollar place in Paris; Abass is worth tens of millions, and Haniyeh of Hamas is estimated at $3 Billion.

Not repairing the water treatment plant means big money selling bottled water, despite plenty of cash annually to do so.

This is why they always say "no" without offering a counter offer and walk away from the table; it's why the Arab-Israeli negotiations without Palestinians are so important.

You'll hardly meet a Palestinian Family in the West that doesn't own multiple properties with multiple citizenships and residencies, because of this grift. Remember Omar Mateen's wife? He signed the property over to her and she actively and knowingly helped him plan attacks; her family is based in Cali and owns multiple properties worldwide. So does Linda Sarsour, both her and her husband's families own plural buildings in Brooklyn and across the US and Jordan. Often in multiple countries. Yet they claim to be refugees, and their special Grift UNWRA, which excludes them from the normal Refugee rules (residency, much less citizenship, in any country removes refugee status) that every single other group is under from the Sudan to Bangladesh.

AmericanKulak says

This is why they always say "no" without offering a counter offer and walk away from the table; it's why the Arab-Israeli negotiations without Palestinians are so important.

There's no serious attempt at a solution on either side, both governments (as in all governments) are corrupt.

Every "negotiation" is never intended to be met with a solution. If either side was interested in a solution, offers would be made public AS they were being made. If the Palestinians were given a solution THEY could accept but the leadership refused it, the leadership would have their heads on silver plates.

Neither power structure wants a solution.

stereotomy says

Par for the course - the US went from subsidizing NAZI's and executing Patriots (Ruby Ridge, Waco), to executing Patriots (Covid "Vaccines") and supporting NAZI's (Ukraine).

Finally, somebody knowledgeable! Maybe you can explain why USA was supposedly supporting Globohomo Joos and NAZIS in Ukraine simultaneously? If Ukraine is supposedly a proxy to attack poor defenseless Mother Russia and US have installed the Globohomo Joo government there why does it supposedly simultaneously support NAZIS who famously hate everyting Globo, Homo or Joo?

So far nobody could crack this puzzle for me.

All these 3 things can't be true at the same time, so which one is false?

Eric Holder says

If Ukraine is supposedly a proxy to attack poor defenseless Mother Russia

You keep making this strawman.

I don't think anybody feels sorry for Russia, or thinks it's under attack.

Preemptive war is a doctrine the United States normalized and made internationally acceptable because "we can't wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud". Russia is just doing a preemptive war because Ukraine refuses to agree not to join NATO.

Rules are set by precedent and George W. Bush established that precedent.

The US establishment is just happy to restart the Cold War and gin up the money machine making weapons that if we ever were to use, would end civilization. That's what they want, and that's what they finally got. The more Ukrainians and Russians that die in this stupid war, the greater the enmity will be created. The US will supply Ukraine with as much weaponry as they can, right on down to 5 year old kids driving tanks, and firing ManPADS.

At this point I think it’s being driven by military industry lobbyists who want to sell weapons that will be given to Ukraine. They don’t have a pet battlefield to supply since Biden shut down their Afghan operation. So this is like life support for the MIC.

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

If Ukraine is supposedly a proxy to attack poor defenseless Mother Russia

You keep making this strawman.

I don't think anybody feels sorry for Russia, or thinks it's under attack.

So we agree that there Russia was in no imminent danger of being attacked by Ukraine? Good! We are making great progress here.

Patrick says

And we know this is not crisis actors posing how exactly? Let's see the whole video.

In the months before Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, an oligarch with Russian ties allegedly paid for locals to paint swastikas around Kharkiv, sources say. The effort, according to the sources, was part of a false flag operation to exaggerate Ukraine’s Nazi presence at a time when Putin was using it as a pretext for war.

The alleged plot, according to multiple sources, involved Pavel Fuks, a real estate, banking, and oil magnate who, the sources claim, was co-opted by Russian security forces to participate. Through intermediaries, Fuks allegedly offered between $500 and $1,500 for street level criminals to vandalize city streets with pro-Nazi graffiti in December, January, and February.

Oleg Plyush, a former top Ukrainian kickboxer who says he’s a friend of Fuks and spoke to him about the swastika plot, tells Rolling Stone he learned about the scheme from an intermediary involved with finding people to carry out the vandalism. According to Plyush’s account, when confronted about the scheme, Fuks claimed that “he had no choice” and that it was his “assignment” — mandatory if he wanted to stay in business in the region.

Fuks did not return emails sent to his business and personal accounts. His US lawyer, John Lomas, did not return emails and a phone call seeking comment.

Fuks is Jewish and a major contributor to a holocaust memorial in Kyiv, and there’s no reason to believe he would pay for swastikas out of antisemitism. Instead, if confirmed, the plot suggests there was at least one deliberate attempt by the Russian security state to manufacture evidence to exaggerate the sway of Nazism in Ukraine. In the run-up to the invasion and after, Putin claimed Ukraine had fallen under Nazi control and that the invasion was necessary to liberate the country — a claim broadly dismissed internationally but that, with the help of state-run media, seems to have taken hold among many Russians.

Plyush tells Rolling Stone he is aware of three instances of anti-Semitic graffiti that Fuks allegedly paid for. He claims the alleged campaign extended to Kyiv, where a local Jewish publication found swastikas spray-painted in November near the city’s main synagogue. Plyush said that the low-level “street thugs” who were hired to paint the symbols, two of whom he says he personally knows, were offered around $1,000 or $1,500 each. Other sources put the amount at around $500.

Plyush provided a copy of his passport and offered to testify under oath, if needed, to his alleged encounter with Fuks. “I have no fear. I’m not afraid of anyone,” he tells Rolling Stone, speaking through a translator in a phone interview.

A real person, a known friend or the accused ready to testify under oath. This is how it used to be done when journos weren't complete clowns.

Eric Holder says

In the months before Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, an oligarch with Russian ties allegedly paid for locals to paint swastikas around Kharkiv, sources say. The effort, according to the sources, was part of a false flag operation to exaggerate Ukraine’s Nazi presence at a time when Putin was using it as a pretext for war.

The alleged plot, according to multiple sources, involved Pavel Fuks, a real estate, banking, and oil magnate who, the sources claim, was co-opted by Russian security forces to participate. Through intermediaries, Fuks allegedly offered between $500 and $1,500 for street level criminals to vandalize city streets with pro-Nazi graffiti in December, January, and February.

Oleg Plyush, a former top Ukrainian kickboxer who says he’s a friend of Fuks and spoke to him about the swastika plot, tells Rolling Stone he learned about the scheme from an intermediary involved with finding people to carry out the vandalism. According to Ply...

I don't doubt this. Neither there is any doubt that most if not all governments, esp. the US and the Ukraine (US by proxy) engage in such tactics. Canada and Europe as well. Plenty of fake hate crimes, fake nazis, fake misogynists and fake anti alphabet people. It's called propaganda and everyone engages in it. Most thank God do not use it as a pretext for war, unfortunately the US has done so multiple times though. And those who don't use it against their own people though which is not that much "better".

"The Russian Imperial Movement (RIM) is an extreme-right, white supremacist militant organization based in St. Petersburg, Russia. Founded in 2002, the group promotes ethnic Russian nationalism, advocates the restoration of Russia’s tsarist regime, and seeks to fuel white supremacy extremism in the West. RIM maintains contacts with neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups across Europe and the United States. The group has provided paramilitary training to Russian nationals and members of like-minded organizations from other countries at its facilities in St. Petersburg. Members of RIM’s armed wing, the Imperial Legion, have fought alongside pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine .... In addition to its ultra-nationalist beliefs, RIM is known for its anti-Semitic and anti-Ukrainian views.


.....

On 26 January 2020, a Russian man named Anatoly Udodov was arrested at the Arlanda airport after the police had discovered a cache of weapons belonging to him. The Swedish police had confiscated numerous firearms from him the previous summer due to his connections to SMR. Udodov was described as the representative of RIM in Sweden by Vorobyev and investigators believe he is the local recruiter for the RIM training camps. According to Swedish police Udodov is friends with a convicted terrorist, 23-year-old Viktor Melin. Melin was part of a group of Swedish neo-Nazis who went to Russia for military training, and upon returning was responsible for a string of bombings against minorities and political enemies. RIM has also provided paramilitary training to German, Finnish and Polish neo-Nazis.

RIM had supported the “Novorossiya” (or “New Russia”) project in eastern Ukraine along with other far-right groups, including the neo-Nazi National Socialist Initiative (NSI), National Democratic Party of Russia (NDP), and Russian All-National Union (RONS)

https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement?source=patrick.net#text_block_22704

https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-51586850?source=patrick.net

https://warsawinstitute.org/kremlin-uses-radical-russian-imperial-movement-destabilize-west/?source=patrick.net#