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3
clambo
2022 Nov 11, 6:40am
Just the other day I met a young guy from Belgium visiting La Paz. We shared a big table at the casual restaurant.
I told him about my father being in Belgium in a battle of WWII and the veterans meeting regularly in Palm Beach FL for lunch.
VBOB=Veterans of Battle of the Bulge.
So, he was fascinated and wanted to see the battle lines map that was at meetings; it showed how close his town in Belgium was to the battle lines and where my father was.
My two uncles were also veterans; one was a paratrooper the other a squad leader. My grandfather was a WWI veteran.
I met several interesting guys at the meetings; one liberated a concentration camp; another guy was a survivor of such a camp.
One guy was being transported after being wounded and was captured; he had what could be the worst day one could have.
The majority of the guys were old; some less so since they had lied about their age to get into the Army at the time.
They all seemed cheerful and interesting to talk to.
A couple years later I heard Gavin Newsom saying that white men were part of the problem; what a bunch of bullshit.
I told him about my father being in Belgium in a battle of WWII and the veterans meeting regularly in Palm Beach FL for lunch.
VBOB=Veterans of Battle of the Bulge.
So, he was fascinated and wanted to see the battle lines map that was at meetings; it showed how close his town in Belgium was to the battle lines and where my father was.
My two uncles were also veterans; one was a paratrooper the other a squad leader. My grandfather was a WWI veteran.
I met several interesting guys at the meetings; one liberated a concentration camp; another guy was a survivor of such a camp.
One guy was being transported after being wounded and was captured; he had what could be the worst day one could have.
The majority of the guys were old; some less so since they had lied about their age to get into the Army at the time.
They all seemed cheerful and interesting to talk to.
A couple years later I heard Gavin Newsom saying that white men were part of the problem; what a bunch of bullshit.
4
Patrick
2022 Nov 12, 8:38pm
Patrick
2022 Nov 12, 8:38pm
ohomen171 says
Note that those three hundred were shot not for refusing to fight in defense of Britain, but for refusing to fight on foreign soil for political reasons.
I bet quite a few officers were shot by their own men, but that those shootings were covered up. I've read there was quite a lot of "fragging" of US officers by their own men during the Vietnam War.
Over three hundred British soldiers were shot in front of firing squads in World War I for a dissertation or refusing to fight.
Note that those three hundred were shot not for refusing to fight in defense of Britain, but for refusing to fight on foreign soil for political reasons.
I bet quite a few officers were shot by their own men, but that those shootings were covered up. I've read there was quite a lot of "fragging" of US officers by their own men during the Vietnam War.
5
DD214
2022 Nov 13, 12:29am
Patrick says
now now - this is a specialty of the United States and Military Industrial Complex, have you no sense of patriotism ?
Patrick says
Wonder why that would be ?
You are totally missing the point of the thread which is to honor this nation's veterans and what better way to do that than promote a sale and gigantic savings in every possible type of business.
refusing to fight on foreign soil for political reasons.
now now - this is a specialty of the United States and Military Industrial Complex, have you no sense of patriotism ?
Patrick says
I bet quite a few officers were shot by their own men, but that those shootings were covered up
Wonder why that would be ?
You are totally missing the point of the thread which is to honor this nation's veterans and what better way to do that than promote a sale and gigantic savings in every possible type of business.
6
AmericanKulak
2022 Nov 13, 12:42am
AmericanKulak
2022 Nov 13, 12:42am
ohomen171 says
Didn't you support the ineffective vaccine mandate?
If I had been alive then and in the combat zone, I would have been a sergeant and a squad leader. I would have told my men to look busy, make a lot of noise, and fire their weapons in the air. I would have made a feeble effort to attack the Germans. My men and I would have been alive at 11:01 AM that morning.
Didn't you support the ineffective vaccine mandate?
7
DD214
2022 Nov 13, 12:45am
ohomen171 says
You would have settled for sergeant and squad leader ? Why not dream big and at least get a bird on your epaulets or an oak leaf cluster of either color ? Then you would not have to be cold, wet and dirty.
If I had been alive then and in the combat zone, I would have been a sergeant and a squad leader.
You would have settled for sergeant and squad leader ? Why not dream big and at least get a bird on your epaulets or an oak leaf cluster of either color ? Then you would not have to be cold, wet and dirty.
9
Rin
2022 Nov 13, 10:56am
Rin
2022 Nov 13, 10:56am
ohomen171 says
First, let's get some facts on this. The day is called Armistice Day and it signifies the date when the Armistice was signed by Germany and the Allies on 5:45 AM that morning of Nov 11th.
And then, while it was telegraphed across the entire 200+ mile front line within the hour, General Pershing gave vague orders which were to "keep the pressure on", which he later said was him, simply echoing the sentiment of Marshall Fochs, the French Allied Supreme Generalissimo.
So a number of military officers used this final opportunity, for their own career gain, as the war was drawing to a close.
The result for all parties involved was nearly 11K causalities with 2.7K+ dead within the final hours of the war which was mainly in the Argonne Forest.
The end of the war was arranged well in advance of this date. The insanity was that troops were required to fight until 11:00 AM. Today in the US military, if a man or woman in a war zone refuses to fight, he or she will be arrested and taken to a court martial.
First, let's get some facts on this. The day is called Armistice Day and it signifies the date when the Armistice was signed by Germany and the Allies on 5:45 AM that morning of Nov 11th.
And then, while it was telegraphed across the entire 200+ mile front line within the hour, General Pershing gave vague orders which were to "keep the pressure on", which he later said was him, simply echoing the sentiment of Marshall Fochs, the French Allied Supreme Generalissimo.
So a number of military officers used this final opportunity, for their own career gain, as the war was drawing to a close.
The result for all parties involved was nearly 11K causalities with 2.7K+ dead within the final hours of the war which was mainly in the Argonne Forest.
The end of the war was arranged well in advance of this date. The insanity was that troops were required to fight until 11:00 AM. Today in the US military, if a man or woman in a war zone refuses to fight, he or she will be arrested and taken to a court martial. They will be sentenced to some relatively short period of confinement. They will get a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable Discharge. 103 years ago, it was the death penalty for any soldier who refused to fight. Senior non-commissioned officers and officers had the authority to shoot any uncooperative soldier dead right on the spot. In the alternative, such a soldier could be arrested, court-martialed, and shot in front of a firing squad. Over three hundred British soldiers were shot in front of firing squads in World War I for a dissertation or refusing to fight. In World War II, my father was a sergeant E-6 in the US Army. He carried a .45 automatic pistol. He had the legal right to shoot any subordinate dead who deserted or showed cowardice in the face of the enemy. In all of World War II, only one US soldier was executed for desertion- Private Eddie Slovak.
The soldiers and sailors alive and on active duty on the morning of 11-11-1918 must have considered it insanity to fight until 11:00 AM. If an order was given to attack, they knew that if they failed to obey the order, they faced the death penalty. One US Army officer launched a major attack that morning. German soldiers facing the attack considered such an attack an act of madness. There were numerous other cases like this. The last allied soldier to die was a 40-year-old British coal miner.
If I had been alive then and in the combat zone, I would have been a sergeant and a squad leader. I would have told my men to look busy, make a lot of noise, and fire their weapons in the air. I would have made a feeble effort to attack the Germans. My men and I would have been alive at 11:01 AM that morning.