patrick.net

Be safe brother, I'm done with Mexico after a friend towing his boat was accosted by a group of Mexican federales with M-16s. Most looked like kids and shook him down for all his cash.

Patrick says

Don't even brush your teeth with the tap water.

We've always brushed our teeth with the water in TJ, not any cleaner for sure. Nothing will happen as long as you don't swallow(insert puns here).

They say don't even eat greens, and washed fruits and salads if you are really hep on avoiding dysentery. Anything that utilizes the water supply can carry the agents. Always eat cooked and drink bottled water, but take water purification tablets to add to water if you must use the domestic supply. You could also take a hand pump filter like they use in camping to avoid Giardia.

I don't get the negativity towards certain countries. Maybe because Mexicans are shorter and I'm 6'3" 220lbs. My wallet is also in my front pocket, so good luck picking that without my dick feeling it. Or maybe it's my experience in Chicago. Never had a negative experience in Mexico. I know a lot of Mexicans and Puerto Ricans though.

I got negative feedback about DR and Jamaica here. They were 100% fine. Left the resort as well. Non-tourist areas. That's the way you get the most authentic food. Same with Mexico. I really wouldn't worry about much Patrick. Don't walk around like an obvious tourist. Get the Spanish game up and you'll be fine. Front carry the wallet and act confident.

Water I can't speak to. I always forget and use the tap water to cepillar los dientes. I've only gotten covid in Mexico, otherwise I've fared well. No gut issues or nausea. I really wouldn't worry much about crime. I've walked around wearing a $1k watch and never got fucked with on 5-6 trips now in obvious tourist spots where criminals would target you.

Mexicans get a bad name because of the border and cartels. Most border crossers are from Central America. Unless you're getting into cartel games you'll be fine. They kill a gringo it makes national news. Only carry what you're willing to lose, but that's the case in almost every country on the planet.

Some good advice on this thread.
https://patrick.net/post/1345411/2022-05-31-mexico-city

Have you been robbed yet?

zzyzzx says

Have you been robbed yet?

Hope not. Should Patrick have gone for a trial run in Chicago or Baltimore first? Level 1 so to speak.

zzyzzx says

Have you been robbed yet?

You have to be a complete idiot to get robbed in MX. You're far more likely to get robbed at Navy Pier or the Mag Mile in Chicago than Mexico. Key in foreign places is learning to pretend to be deaf. Just completely ignore vendors as they're likely a decoy. Have nothing in your back pockets. Wife can have a purse, but make sure you have her valuables on you and it's not expensive. My wife is bringing the fanny pack back when we travel. Though she left it on the plane once....

Mexico is a pretty conservative place. Traditional values and religion. They rely on tourism and business travel. Unless you're going into a known cartel region, I think most people would be surprised how nice it is. Rough around the edges for sure as far as structures and trash, but the people I've encountered have never been negative. Nothing stolen. Not even the threat of it.

WookieMan says

zzyzzx says

Have you been robbed yet?

You have to be a complete idiot to get robbed in MX.

And even if you are: what exactly would they get from you? Credit cards? Zero liability so no loss. Expensive cameras? Nobody carries these anymore because phone cameras are good enough. The phone itself? These are good for parts only so I doubt anybody really wants them anymore. What remains is stupid stuff like jewelry and Rolex watches - don't wear these on vacation and you'll be fine.

Eric Holder says

The phone itself? These are good for parts only so I doubt anybody really wants them anymore.

I've sold a blacklisted phone to a Mexican, and they knew it was blacklisted. Apparently still ways to use them down south.

Got back from Mexico last night. Overall the trip was good, a lot of memorable sights. There was some pain too. Taking the overnight flight there was a mistake, because it's impossible to sleep on a plane.

Impressions:

Tiny mosquitoes in the hotel lobby, but nowhere else. Weird.

Everyone hopes for tips, about 15% is normal like in the US. Lots of beggers.

If you run out of cash pesos, you're fucked. Many things require cash, not credit cards. Example: getting into the pyramids at Teotihuacan an hour out of town.

Prices in general seem to be about half of US prices after you convert to dollars.

There are police everywhere, and well armed. We saw two police running with guns out. There is a pickup with a machine gun mounted on it, with a guy ready for action, in front of the court building.

The weather is good, just a bit too hot in the middle of the day. The sun is brutal, but then it's at 7000 feet and far south.

It's poor, but functional. I'd almost say well-run except for the poverty. Not nearly as bad as Oakland though.

There are no empty storefronts at all, unlike San Francisco, which is full of them. Not only that, there are "stores" set up on sidewalks all over the place, some in tents. Why do we have empty storefronts when they don't?

No black people around. I was usually the only blond person in the street and it feels like a foot taller than most men. They talk about "the three cultures" which are Indiano, mestizo, and European. It's about 25%, 50%, and 25%. There were some Indians buying a bus ticket who didn't seem to know Spanish.

Traffic is horrible, but there are no good options. We tried to take the subway but it had problems and we were told to get off and take the bus. This happened twice. Uber is not a bad bet if you can stand the traffic. It's safer than a street cab because you have info about the driver.

Plenty of broken sidewalks and things to trip on that would be legal liabilities in the US.

Some gays and trannies on the street. Smelled weed a few times, but not nearly as much as you would in SF. In fact, smells were a big part of the experience there, some good (food) and some not (sewage). When you blow your nose, it's dirty from the air.

Lots of American tourists, obvious from a mile away.

Mexican women tend to be very beautiful when young, but then quite fat when they get a bit older, at least among the darker ones. The European Mexicans are taller than the mestizo or Indians, and look much richer. Very hierarchical.

Not uniformly friendly or hostile. Some people really nice, some not. About 20% masked idiots. One guy in a mask even asked me to stand on the vestigial dots on the floor when I changed money at a cambio place. I refused.

I'll post some pics.

People dancing in the street for no particular reason:

Funny walk signal animation:

There is a ridiculously large flag in the main square, the Zocalo, and the military puts it up and takes it down each night:

Food was cheap and good, and we never got sick. We were careful to avoid the water and anything that might have been washed in water, like lettuce.

I could not bring myself to try the brains or eye.



Divide the peso prices on the menu by 18 to get US dollar prices.

That guy has a lot of meat choices; I don't see so many in Baja Sur.

I agree about with all the stuff to trip on on the streets and sidewalks. Pot holes and holes in the sidewalks everywhere. HOWEVER, no one is tripping in them or braking their ankles like they would be here if we had such infrastructure problems. The people down there have learned to live with these nuisances where as the people in this county have not learned how to take care of themselves. Lawyers here to sue for everything, even if you get fat from eating too much McDonalds.

And yes a lot of beggars. Even children selling chiclets, HOWEVER, they have a mother within arms reach. They may be poor but I would bank that the family unit they have is far better than the broken welfare family we have created in the United States.

When you arrive, they take your picture and a photo of your passport and give you a receipt which says you MUST (in capital letters) go online to a certain URL and fill out the "FMMI" form or you will not be allowed to leave the country.

So we tried to do that, but the URL they gave was invalid (missing the .html). I figured that out, and then you have to first create an account with the government with the captcha rigamarole, then take a photo of your passport (which they already have from your arrival), but when you try to select the image, the web page won't let you on an iPhone. So I used my laptop to log in again and upload the photo of my passport there, which works.

Then you have to validate the OCR of your passport data, enter another captcha code, and submit.

Finally they tell you to click to download the FMMI form to fill out, but that doesn't work. I'm a web guy, so I looked at the developer console and they had javascript errors which prevent the page from working. Not sure why they even deployed it with fatal errors, since it's literally not possible to use.

So you both MUST and CANNOT follow their instructions. Pretty frustrating.

I asked the hotel concierge who said to just fill out the paper form at the airport, which was not listed as an option on the receipt I got from the entry immigration booth.

At the airport on the way back, I asked for the paper form and was told that everyone knows the online form is broken, and that they had decided to just let you show the receipt from immigration instead.

But then no one ever asked for that either. It's all pretty messed up.

casandra says

They may be poor but I would bank that the family unit they have is far better than the broken welfare family we have created in the United States.

@casandra I strongly agree with you. I'm pretty sure everyone in Mexico comes from a normal family with a mother and father, and that this helps maintain some social order. You see families everywhere.

Re: Above.
I think that Mexico actually is just interested in knowing how many tourists fly in each year for some statistical use.

Re: Family values in Mexico; families stay together often for economic reasons; in the USA single motherhood has a financial incentive which makes for extremely high numbers of fatherless children.

I know many single mothers in Mexico who struggle because there is no system to make the biological father pay for his own children.
They often live with their parents (child's grandparents).

Men have it much easier than women in Mexico; there are countless females available to men who are both financially desperate and lonely.

But, to be fair, in Mexico family members helping other family members is the norm; I don't know if this is so much true in the USA.
If my brother were in a jam I would help him; but I would tell him he's a loser who can't handle his business before I did it.

Patrick says

Food was cheap and good, and we never got sick. We were careful to avoid the water and anything that might have been washed in water, like lettuce.

I could not bring myself to try the brains or eye.

According to my wife (her mother is from Mexico), the eye tastes kind of like an egg. Her mother used to fight over the cow eyes with her other siblings because it was so tasty.

NuttBoxer says

I've sold a blacklisted phone to a Mexican, and they knew it was blacklisted. Apparently still ways to use them down south.

iPhone? I doubt it can be re-used if locked via iCloud. Android - I have no idea.

Patrick says

So you both MUST and CANNOT follow their instructions. Pretty frustrating.

Patrick says

But then no one ever asked for that either. It's all pretty messed up.

That is Mexico. When I go to foreign countries I just don't care, specifically Mexico, you walk around like you're the boss. They don't give a fuck unless you are getting drugs from the Cartel. Or bring IN expensive stuff. I've hear they rape people with expensive drones/electronics coming in, taxing it. That was 3-4 years ago though.

My experience in Mexico has always been similar to the US. You'll see rough stuff, infrastructure is worse for sure, but overall it's a nice country and it's hard to complain about the weather as someone from the Midwest. I get their authentic food here as I'm near towns with large hispanic populations. I think Chicagoland is 2nd in the country. I know Chicago proper is #1 for Puerto Ricans. Hell, El Chapo's US base was Chicago.

Much of the south and west sides of Chicago is worse than anything I've seen in Mexico. We generally plop down at a resort, but we do get off site for non-popular excursions, or just go eat at a local place not near the resort. Yet to do Pacific side or Mexico City. Caribbean coast is pretty damn normal.

Garbage is my only issue. Lots of it everywhere. That goes for Jamaica, Dominican, USVI, PR, etc. Caribbeans don't have decent trash removal services generally. So lots of waste on the side of roads. Shit cars. Nice people though. I've heard bad things from people, but never encountered anything bad. I'm also an ass hole and a foot taller than most people in the Caribbean, so that might help.

I tried to leave this review on TripAdvisor, but they demand that you allow the Google ReCaptcha spyware, so I couldn't. Same problem with the website of the hotel itself, Hotel Zocalo Central. Ah, they have a plain email address! Thank God for that. I'll send it to them there as well as posting it here.

My wife and I were exceptionally happy with room 215, overlooking the Zocalo square and the cathedral. I'm sure it costs more than the other rooms, but totally worth it.

It's noisy outside, but if you close the windows you can barely hear it. The air conditioning worked well.

There were a few flaws, like tiny mosquitoes in the hotel lobby, but nowhere else we went in Mexico City. Odd. There is a nice free cafe in the lobby where you just give your room number and get coffee, food, and beer all free for guests. The servers expect a tip, but two dollars seems well appreciated. Some of the servers seemed rather sullen and unfriendly most of the time anyway. Others were cheerful and friendly.

The front desk needs to have aspirin on hand. I had a headache and was surprised they didn't have any. They should also make a point of changing money at a reasonable rate, both for the benefit of the guests and because it is a potential profit center. A clerk told me that they will change money, but only at a very bad rate.

The breakfast on the amazing balcony is very good, though one waiter forgot my order so we waited around and eventually ordered again. The coffee is not quite as good as you might expect from the food and location. Seems like Robusta beans instead of Arabica, and not strong enough for coffee connoisseurs. It would also be nice if they had really good cocoa available, as Mexico is the origin of cocoa. It seemed like what they had was the Abuelita stuff, with cinnamon and suger, not what I was hoping for.

Overall, quite an excellent hotel, and you really can't beat the location.

Patrick says

like tiny mosquitoes in the hotel lobby, but nowhere else we went in Mexico City.

They have a fountain or something nearby? Open air lobby? Likely no see ums. They're common in warm and more humid climates. I don't know if Mexico city fits that mold, but they're bad on the Caribbean side of MX. Water/swampy areas are where they go.

We've been in Florida and the entire family looked like we had chicken pox after the week. No one felt like they were getting bit. Wasn't midwest style mosquitos that you just whack off your arm. You didn't know it was happening.

Patrick says

The front desk needs to have aspirin on hand. I had a headache and was surprised they didn't have any. They should also make a point of changing money at a reasonable rate, both for the benefit of the guests and because it is a potential profit center. A clerk told me that they will change money, but only at a very bad rate.

Tip. Always bring a first aid kit of some sort that includes pain meds. Internationally especially and account for any liquids over the ounce requirement. I don't take anything, but the wife might and if something bad happened I might. I've needed a kit twice for wounds on vacation, mainly camping. Basic stuff like bandaids, alcohol wipes to clean wounds, gauze, maybe some medical tape, etc. If you're doing tours Dramamine water or land is a go to now as I get sick if I'm not driving and in the back. I get shotgun or you may end up with puke in the back. I rent a car everywhere I go if I can. I need to be in control.

For the kit also account for location. My wife just got back from Costa Rica. She was stung in probably a dozen spots by jellyfish. I'll wait for the pee on it comments........ but there are other remedies you can bring with.

I have a weird timing things with stuff. First time I bought travel insurance for a trip to Disney my BIL hangs himself. We either miss the wake and funeral or $6k lost. We got it all back. Took my kids and nephew camping (before we had him) just me and the kids. Nephew falls at the campground playground and tears a wart he had on his knee off. Blood everywhere. I had a first aid kit I packed for the first time.

I love travel and I'm getting better at it. Contemplated getting into the travel industry, but I really don't want to deal with needy people that expect 5 start service for next to nothing. On the coffee thing I'd always bring it or just go to a local shop. I don't drink it anymore, but I did love good coffee when I did. We bring snacks for the flights and the room. Saves some $$$.

We have spring break and one camping trip planned the rest of the year. I'm disappointed. San Diego is out now too, which I'm pissed about. $500k on a house so it's time to be frugal and make more money. I've enjoyed the break. Time for me to adult again.

WookieMan says

Patrick says

like tiny mosquitoes in the hotel lobby, but nowhere else we went in Mexico City.

They have a fountain or something nearby? Open air lobby? Likely no see ums. They're common in warm and more humid climates. I don't know if Mexico city fits that mold, but they're bad on the Caribbean side of MX. Water/swampy areas are where they go.

We've been in Florida and the entire family looked like we had chicken pox after the week. No one felt like they were getting bit. Wasn't midwest style mosquitos that you just whack off your arm. You didn't know it was happening.

Patrick says

The front desk needs to have aspirin on hand. I had a headache and was surprised they didn't have any. They should also make a point of changing money at a reasonable rate, both for the benefit of the guests and...

One of the reasons I will likely never move to an overly humid climate. Fucking hate mosquitoes, rather wrestle a bobcat than a horde of these bloodsuckers. Ah California!

mell says

One of the reasons I will likely never move to an overly humid climate. Fucking hate mosquitoes, rather wrestle a bobcat than a horde of these bloodsuckers. Ah California!

Don't disagree. No clue if it's blood type, but mosquitoes don't F with me. I very rarely use spray in the summer humid months here in IL. I'm an outlier, but I actually like humidity. I'm a sauna and steam room guy. So natural steam room and sweat I feel is good. Gets shit out of the body. Frankly think it's healthy for you. I understand though people don't like it. But still why I'm eying Mississippi property on a lake for retirement. Cheap AF and I'm all good with humidity.

That said I'd prefer CA climate. Winters are awful here in IL. The value to climate equation for me to move to CA just isn't worth it financially. We'll make the same anywhere in the country, but housing it exponentially more expensive and income taxes alone would eat $25k/yr above what we pay. House we're building will be $3k/mo roughly. Same house in CA would be $7k/mo at least. Doable. Not getting house poor though. So I'll drag through the winters in the meantime.

WookieMan says

They have a fountain or something nearby?

There wasn't any visible fountain in the lobby, but they did have a wall of plants which might have enough water to keep those little buggers going. Here is the lobby:



It's pretty much a 5-star place aside from the little flaws.

I'm still a bit creeped out by learning more about the human sacrifice. They would cut you open, and then the priest would literally reach in and rip your heart out.

I imagine a Catholic priest talking to an Aztec something like this in 1520 or so:

priest: God sacrificed his only son to save you.
Aztec: Sure, Gods do that and this is why we have to sacrifice people, to return the favor. Was his heart ripped out?
priest: No, they nailed him to a cross.
Aztec: Creative! So you nail people to crosses?
priest: No, it was just a one-time thing.
Aztec: Boring!

Patrick says

Everyone hopes for tips, about 15% is normal like in the US. Lots of beggers.

That's odd. In TJ we usually only leave a few pesos, never go by percentage.

Patrick says

The European Mexicans are taller than the mestizo or Indians, and look much richer. Very hierarchical.

That's racist!! Seriously though, every non-white ethnicity is like this. The lighter the skin, the better. We're the only country that seems to have this ass-backwards.

Patrick says

I'm still a bit creeped out by learning more about the human sacrifice. They would cut you open, and then the priest would literally reach in and rip your heart out.

Weirdly, this happens in any society just before the Iron Age. There's Danish and other sites in China like this.

Sometime in the late Stone Age/Bronze age, people get the idea that sacrificing people is a Good Thing.

Patrick says

Food was cheap and good, and we never got sick. We were careful to avoid the water and anything that might have been washed in water, like lettuce.

I could not bring myself to try the brains or eye.

Never seen oreja, that's weird. Also, no buche!?

Eric Holder says

iPhone? I doubt it can be re-used if locked via iCloud. Android - I have no idea.

iPhone. Sold it for just over $200, must be good for something. If you can swap the IMEI, that's all that's needed to unlock it. Tried it a while back, but the SW didn't work, or I didn't know what I was doing.

AmericanKulak says

Weirdly, this happens in any society just before the Iron Age. There's Danish and other sites in China like this.

Yes, and Christianity itself is a kind of offshoot of this. Abraham was supposed sacrifice Isaac, but God stopped him. Just a test. Jesus's being sacrificed is kind of a reflection of that.

And I think in the Old Testament you have the rule that you can no longer sacrifice your firstborn to Baal or Moloch, implying that that's what people used to do.

My advice is don't set yourself up for any crime.

Try to fit in as much as you can so you don't stick out enough and there is a virtual sign above you that says "kidnap me"

.

Re: Human sacrifice above.
My Mexican friend (who is a lawyer and got good grades in school) told me that the traditional soupy dish Pozole was made with human meat sometimes back in the Aztec days.
Today it's made with pork.
She made pozole one cold day and told this to me and ruined my appetite for the pork. The hominy and broth went down OK.
There was a famous guy who disposed of narco murdered people using large drums and acid; his nickname was "El pozolero"=pozole maker.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2023/02/27/Mexico-protest-election-institute-Obrador/3181677499079/

Feb. 27 (UPI) -- More than 100,000 Mexican residents crowded the Zocalo plaza near the presidential palace in Mexico City to protest changes to the National Election Institute they charge would weaken the agency.

Hey, that's pretty much the view we had from my hotel room, only our view was quite a bit lower, from the 3rd floor of Hotel Zocalo Central, room 215. (If you stay there, that is the room to get.)

And the protest is about election fraud, just like we have here.

Cool.

Patrick says

Food was cheap and good, and we never got sick.

I have to revoke the never sick part. I got classic tourista about 24 hours after getting back. Not sure how that happened, but seems like it has to be the trip. At least it was not on the plane thank God.

I did brush my teeth with the water, which may have been my mistake. I have also since read that "If the food isn't too hot to eat when it arrives at your table, you shouldn't eat it at all." This is because just a touch by a dirty hand on warm food can make a place where bacteria can proliferate quickly.

My wife is fine, but she never brushed her teeth with the tap water.

One of my friends came back from a vacation in Mexico with a TB.

Patrick says

My wife is fine, but she never brushed her teeth with the tap water.

This was likely the mistake on your end. I'll forget using bottled water and have never been sick in MX, but at some point you're better off not brushing your teeth as gross as that sounds. Resorts generally have their own filtration, but if you were in MX city that's a crapshoot for water quality.

Worst case if you don't have bottled water, and again it's going to sound crazy, but use vodka, beer, or any alcohol to wet the tooth brush if you don't have bottled water. Also never assume the bottled water is good either. Hence the alcohol suggestion.

I got covid in Mexico, but nothing else and I totally forgot this last time about using the bottled water. Fortunately no problems there.