patrick.net

Dumbest human acquisition in the History of human's trading wampum for goods.

Do you guys know why Ford Trucks start at $85,000?

Pure and simple, because they can charge that much, because there's no shortage of Snitches wanting a Ford F150 star on their bellies.

PS I'm not deriding you or your purchase decision here, I'm sure you can manage it, and how else are you going to get a F150?

I'm knocking the fact that we're at the point where a new truck costs $85K.

The 13-14 F150s are ok, but look at the 5.0 V8 vs the 3.5 Ecoboost as the first gen 3.5s had a few issues with their VVT system. Unless that’s already been replaced in the last 1.5 years (updated cam phasers).

I will say I think the seats in a 2021 are better than the 2017, which are quite a bit more comfy than the pre-2015 trucks. When I rode in pre-2015 F150s I remember the seats not being comfortable at all.

Are you planning on towing with it?

As long as you avoid the 5.4L Triton engine, unless it's been replaced already, you should be fine. Those I think were last made in 2010, so you should be OK anyway.

Do you tow? If not I'd get a full sized SUV. Armada, Sequoia, Tahoe, etc. Even then they can still tow. Most guys I know rarely use the truck bed. If you have the storage space (for a trailer) get a trailer that can carry 3-4k of cargo.

If you work in trades I get it, but pickup trucks are not the best daily drivers. 90% back of napkin bet is that most don't use the truck bed. Your choice, but a Expedition is the same chassis if I recall correctly if you're into Ford. I prefer Toyota myself.

Side note. Anyone that can SHOULD 100% get a trailer that can haul things. Single axle is fine. Probably the best $1,200 I've spent in my life. Not a joke. Whatever car you decide on BayArea just make sure it can tow. Obviously an F-150 could handle that.

I'm rural so I haul my mower to help mow families lawns and stuff. Two widowed moms. Golf cart. Work mowers. Camping.

Trailer camping is fun and lessens the hassle. My buddy is customizing his trailer to fit a UTV. Semi clever and semi stupid, but it should be a cool trailer. My other buddy bought a toy hauler camper and forgot he had two kids... lol. So a 4 seater wouldn't fit in the camper. So they now have to drive two cars when they camp with a separate trailer. He's from Minnesota so he's an idiot.

if all you want is to haul some shit occasionally, get a trailer. truck will be too wasteful. small trailer with ramp will haul more than crew cab truck, and cost you fraction.

how often do you need to haul?

I owned a Ford pickup but it was very old. I thought it was OK.
If I were buying a truck today, I would buy a Toyota.

Get a Sequoia instead.

I've been told by countless mechanics that Toyota and Lexus are the best brands out there.

It’s hard to beat the newer Tundras. They’re just great trucks all the way around. That would be my choice for a pickup truck.

The trailer suggestion is not half bad and I’m considering that for myself. I am not sure tho if I have a vehicle that can tow. My wife’s car is a Honda Pilot and that’s the best bet for towing. But I wouldn’t think it could tow much. Maybe 3000 lbs max. Still that might be fine with a small trailer for those loads we can’t haul any other way!

Shaman says

It’s hard to beat the newer Tundras.

Aren't those V-6 though with a turbo? My Toyota guy's wife had a falling out with my wife so we don't talk much anymore. He works manufacturing side as an engineer. He's mechanical and tows a toy hauler camper and even with weight distribution hitch I guess it kind of sketchy with the Tundra above 7k towing. He's driven every model of Toyota and Lexus available and some not available to the public.

I like the full size SUV like the Sequoia with our climate and 3 kids. Truck might be better out in CA I suppose with 2 kids or less. Generally you guys have less rain and snow than I would. A truck bed here (IL) with anything not covered is useless really unless it's in water protected containers. You'd need a water proof truck box. I'd rather have the coverage and the ability to tow the same amount.

Everyone needs are different, but if someone intends to tow with a Tundra check the specs. It shows 11k(ish) towing. I wouldn't advise that, but not many people tow that much. I really don't see a turbo v-6 pulling 11k at altitude if you're going camping in the Sierras. I'm frankly shocked that it's rated for that much weight.

In CA you'll pay non-trivial amount in extra registration fees for a pickup because these are registered as commercial vehicles. You can register it as a personal vehicle (the actual technical term is "house car") but then you have to have a camper shell permanently attached to the truck.

If you need to tow a ton of weight, get a diesel or maybe a 10 cylinder gas guzzler. Full ton of course. Sure makes for a crappy commuter tho!

I don't understand all this crapping on turbos wrt towing at altitude: turbo is actually BETTER at high altitudes than NA.

RWSGFY says

I don't understand all this crapping on turbos wrt towing at altitude: turbo is actually BETTER at high altitudes than NA.

Absolutely correct, the engine's cooling system just needs to be able to handle the heat. Very true that a Gen3 3.5 EcoBoost will have more power and torque at 7,239' on Donner summit than the NA 6.2, 6.8, or 7.3 engines will. The only downside I see to it is that the fuel economy will likely be lower because when it's in boost the power enrichment air-fuel ratio is richer than a NA engine to manage combustion temperatures and detonation. Direct Injection helps with that a bit, but the AFR will still be richer HP for HP on a boosted engine vs. naturally aspirated.

RWSGFY says

I don't understand all this crapping on turbos wrt towing at altitude: turbo is actually BETTER at high altitudes than NA.

I'll take it from the guy that builds the cars and tests them, not sure what else to say. He's told me they over spec'd the Tundra. It doesn't handle well at all above 7k lbs. He literally drives a 10k lbs toy hauler camper on the newest Tundra. He's done it a dozen times. He'll test drive all models of Toyotas and Lexus out in AZ at the Toyota track Northwest of Phoenix. I'll take his word over someone on a forum. You don't have to believe me but I'm not wrong.

Look it up. He's there monthly.

Thank you for the replies everyone. Few things:

I mentioned 2013-2014… price point of ~$20k. Not a chance I’m paying (and depreciating) an $85k truck.

Someone mentioned Tundra. I’m open to that, it’s a close 2nd in my choice.

No, I will not be towing much, if at all. However I do a lot of work around my house and want to have a 5.5ft bed to do small hauling jobs. I also want the wide rear bench seat so I can stuff 5 of us in for a road trip and still have tons of storage in the bed with a locking cover.

There’s a lot of debate about the 5.0 V8 Coyote vs V6 turbo. My preference is the naturally aspirated Coyote. The turbo system would be one less thing to have to worry about then.

I’ve also been studying the different trims. There are a lot!

My wife has an SUV, not getting another.

Also, interesting ideas with the trailer. Who would like to post a pic of their trailer to show what they are working with?

BayArea says

No, I will not be towing much, if at all. However I do a lot of work around my house and want to have a 5.5ft bed to do small hauling jobs. I also want the wide rear bench seat so I can stuff 5 of us into for a road trip and still have tons of storage in the bed with a locking cover.

I'm not a brand person, but I believe the Expedition is the same or extremely similar chassis as the 150. Towing, if needed, is still a possibility. You generally can fit a ton inside with the 3rd row down and 3 can sit in the second row. A roof rack and/or folding down all the seats you can fit more than a 150, just have a tarp or something if it's messy.

If you're throwing bags of concrete and bricks in there I totally get the 150. Messy/rough stuff. But the occasional sheet of drywall or boxes of tile I'd lean toward the full sized SUV if you've regularly got 5 people in it and are doing road trips. There's no leg room in any truck I've been in so you're having to pull over to get shit out of the bed of the truck instead of having good leg room and being able to reach back and grab stuff.

I'm in farming country where they need a truck. The main family car they use is 100% a full sized SUV. The truck is for work. Also if there are kids involved, being able to throw up a 3rd row and have their buddies in there to go do something is a positive. I don't care your final choice just giving my experience with 3 kids and owning a Armada, Sequoia, 4 Runner, Jeep Commander all with 3rd row seating. If you ever need to have to haul something rent a trailer for $50/day or strap it too the roof if it's stuff like plywood.