patrick.net

richwicks says

Again, you claimed Irving was "anti-Semitic" - can you show this not by what people CLAIM he has said, but by what he's said?

I do treasure cranks and contrarians, but only to a degree. Contrarians often are as married to their hypothesis (and attracted to outlying explanations generally) emotionally as the "Sheeple" they claim to want to rescue.

I don't have time or desire to deeply examine every single controversial figure in the world, at some point, I have to leave somethings to a synopsis by others or I'd never get anything done or have time for anything enjoyable in life.

I did enjoy reading this article, and came away with a rather sypathetic figure of Irving as a lovable crank.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/david-irving-hitler-wasnt-anti-semitic-and-the-holocaust-wasnt-his-fault/28462548.html

And of course Irving famously lost a lawsuit against an author who labelled him a Holocaust Denier, meaning - before these woke days - found that label to be justified by the preponderance of evidence. Keep in mind Irving filed the lawsuit as plaintiff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsLW7VrOpA8

If you can show extraordinary evidence that Irving isn't a lifelong Hitler Apologist and Anti-Semite, I'd be happy to listen. Note that his Judenhass (anti-semitism is a santized neologism, I prefer the original term) is pretty well documented. His very first noted book was "Wah, Dresden, but I don't mention the terror bombing of Poland by the Luftwaffe in 1939"

Irving is free to publish, sell, debate, etc. in the USA and elsewhere. Central Europeans have a deep seated love of deferense to administrative authority that always gets them in trouble. Sadly, this Central European Admin/Academic mentality arrived in the US after WW2 and is now dominant.

richwicks says

That's exactly what GIYUS and Zionists in general are like. They are complete bullies, they will try to intimidate you, they will even physically attack you. They want to shut you up, they don't even want to entertain MAYBE what they are doing is gravely immoral.

All Liberation Groups behave that way. Zionism isn't much different than the IRA or Basques or the PLO in that respect. British Loyalists were hanged by Washington. The same KGB that produced Yuri Bezmenov who explained subversion and other techniques also trained many "Little Farm" and "Planation" operatives, including Agent Aref.

richwicks says

What's diesel exhaust?

one would expect a layperson to describe Carbon Monoxide as "Diesel Exhaust", and not in a strict engineering/formal way.

2.16: Fumes from a diesel engine are not toxic enough to kill people.
(This claim is made with regard to the death camp of Treblinka – see file with ruling of German courts on this. In other death camps, gasoline engines were used. The method of killing was simple – people were crammed into the gas chambers, and the exhaust of powerful engines was pumped into them).
Nonsense. In a closed chamber, of course diesel fumes will kill. There was actually a study on this, and its results are reported in “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under Four Different Running Conditions”, by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p. 47-55. These researchers ran a few experiments in which various animals were exposed to diesel fumes, and studied the results.

In the experiments, the exhaust of a small diesel engine (568 cc, 6 BHP) was connected to a chamber 10 cubic meters (340 cubic feet) in volume, and the animals were put inside it. In all cases, the animals died. Death was swifter when the intake of air to the engine was restricted, as this causes a large increase in the amount of carbon monoxide (CO) that is emitted. (See, for instance, “diesel Engine Reference Book”, by Lilly, 1985, p. 18/8, where it is stated that at a high air/fuel ratio the concentration of CO is only a few parts per million but for lower ratios (25:1) the concentration of CO can rise up to 3,000 ppm. It is very easy to restrict the air intake; the British researchers did so by partially covering the air intake opening with a piece of metal.)

Even in cases where the CO output was low, the animals still died from other toxic components – mainly irritants and nitrogen dioxide.
Now, the diesel engines used in Treblinka were much larger – they belonged to captured Soviet T-34 tanks. These tanks weighed 26-31 tons (depending on the model) and had a 500 BHP engine (compared to a mere 6 BHP in the British experiments). The volume of the extermination chambers in Treblinka is, of course, a factor. But the chambers’ volume was about 60 cubic meters (2040 cubic feet); this is 6 times more than those in the British experiments, but the difference in the size of the engines is much larger than a factor of 6.

It should be remembered that what matters in CO poisoning is not the concentration of CO, but the ratio of CO to oxygen. In a small room, crammed full of people, oxygen levels drop quickly, thus making death by CO poisoning faster. As noted, other toxic components in the fumes further accelerate mortality.

The SS was aware of the fact that cramming as many people as possible into the gas chamber, thus leaving no empty spaces, would accelerate mortality. This is evident, for instance, from a letter regarding “gassing vans” (used in the Chelmno extermination camp and other locations) sent to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Walter Rauff, 5 June 1942. The letter is quite long (more of it is reproduced in the file of original Nazi documents), but here is the relevant part (Nazism, document 913).

“2) The vans are normally loaded with 9-10 people per square meter. With the large Saurer special vans this is not possible because although they do not become overloaded their maneuverability is much impaired. A reduction in the load area appears desirable. It can be achieved by reducing the size of the van by c. 1 meter. The difficulty referred to cannot be overcome by reducing the size of the load. For a reduction in the numbers will necessitate longer period of operation because the free spaces will have to be filled with CO. By contrast, a smaller load area which is completely full requires a much shorter period of operation since there are no free spaces.”

Another gruesome testimony to the “science of gassing” developed by the SS is the letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16 May 1942 (Nazi Conspiracy, 418)

“The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My directions have now proved that by correct adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer noticed”.

https://remember.org/History.root.rev.html

AmericanKulak says

If you can show extraordinary evidence that Irving isn't a lifelong Hitler Apologist and Anti-Semite, I'd be happy to listen.

I'm not going to beg you to listen to him, I don't care.

You know as well as I do you can't prove a negative.

I was wondering what basis you had for calling Irving an anti-Semite, thinking you wouldn't be able to. Even if he WAS anti-Semitic, the man is smart enough to steer clear of saying anything along the lines, the man isn't an idiot.

AmericanKulak says

Irving is free to publish, sell, debate, etc. in the USA and elsewhere.

Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDshjLccIHG

Oh, it's been deleted..

It doesn't matter, people make copies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2uzsUxafwo

I have copies, but I don't bother to re-upload to youtube. Anything I listen to I have a tendency to make a copy of, JUST to find out what is removed.

AmericanKulak says

All Liberation Groups behave that way.

NO they don't. I can shit on the PLO or IRA all day, and I might get disagreement, but I don't get threatened, I don't get 50 people showing up within a matter of a 1/2 hour to scream at me. I do with GIYUS.

You have ANY idea how difficult it is to discuss ANYTHING regarding Israel? Like when Rachael Corrie was killed I was on some board, discussing it along with my cousin and few other random people. We were just discussing what we thought had happened, and then 50 fuckers showed up with constant obscenities, noise, accusations - it made continuing impossible.

They do this ALL THE TIME. GIYUS is nothing more than an Israeli government program to prevent ANY criticism of Israel, no matter WHAT they do.

Happy USS Liberty day - by the way, it was yesterday.

You know as well as I do you can't prove a negative.

Yes, but I need to be arsed to discover more. The old "Muh Hitler dindu nuffin wrong" has been debunked countless times. To be arsed, I need to see evidence to make me go look again.

Irving himself has shown to add quite a bit to primary history, and add details that didn't exist to them. For example, the badge removal during the Beer Hall Pusch Days; Irving completely twisted the original sources to be what it wasn't - Hitler WANTED party members to wear their badges when socialistically terrorizing private property. Irving makes it sound like Hitler punished somebody for behaving like an Antifa rioter. And Irving writes it was Goebells who was shocked by the firing of the party member who removed the badge before Antifa'ing private property, a deli - the primary source has no reference to Goebells being present at all , much less a reaction. The original source makes it clear that because the party member didn't wear the badge during the vandalization and looting, Hitler considered him to be just a criminal not doing it for glorious socialist party reasons and thus expelled.

richwicks says

Happy USS Liberty day - by the way, it was yesterday.

Let me know when you have evidence, not utterly unbacked speculation of a non-accidental motive. Meanwhile, from the undeniable fact that reparations were paid (twice) by Israel with full apologies for the accident, released radio intercepts, & USN's crash immediately following program to improve message transmission in the 6th (med) Fleet specifically, in the absence of any tangible evidence, we have no reason to believe otherwise.
richwicks says

They do this ALL THE TIME. GIYUS is nothing more than an Israeli government program to prevent ANY criticism of Israel, no matter WHAT they do.

The USS Liberty was more than a half-century ago, before Disco, before Nixon, before the VCR. Humbug proponents have to go back that far to find an accident that was immediately owned up to and paid for, for which not a shred of evidence of deliberate malfeasance exists, only dark hints and belabored explanations of underhanded motivations.

richwicks says

Like when Rachael Corrie

What college did Rachel Corrie attend?

What is this college famous for in the recent past?

Was she standing up or lying down?

How much ground ahead can you see in a rubble pile while driving a tactor with the scoop down, so as to see a slender person?

What was the area she was blocking set up for demolition?

Was Rachel Corie a humanitarian, or a useful idiot Socialist, the same kind who claim Maduro was duly elected?

Would Rachel Corie likely have been a full BLM/Antifa, TDS suffering and insufferable left-wing goon had she survived?

Have other US Citizens been killed in the area? Veterans pushed off a cruise ship in their wheelchair? American citizens being blown up while eating a pizza? Why don't they get long eulogies and plays and mournful remembrances, but only the Professional Class Socialist Radical College Student?

AmericanKulak says

Yes, but I need to be arsed to discover more.

Don't make a claim you cannot support.

AmericanKulak says

The old "Muh Hitler dindu nuffin wrong" has been debunked countless times.

Don't strawman positions. I'm an OLLLD hand at this game.

AmericanKulak says

For example, the badge removal during the Beer Hall Pusch Days; Irving completely twisted the original sources to be what it wasn't - Hitler WANTED party members to wear their badges when socialistically terrorizing private property. Irving makes it sound like Hitler punished somebody for behaving like an Antifa rioter.

OK, source?

AmericanKulak says

Let me know when you have evidence, not utterly unbacked speculation of a non-accidental motive.

The motive has been given several times, to draw the US into a war against Egypt by framing Egypt for the attack. Is this true? I don't know, I know there wasn't a Congressional investigation into it, and the survivors were given medals in secret, not publicly.

I think that's a little suspicious..

I remember trying to discuss THIS incidence back in the late 1990's, and fools would march in claiming there WAS a Congressional investigation, but they couldn't give dates, they were just lying about it. Always when you try to discuss Israel, anything they do that might CONCEIVABLY be bad, all these fuckers come in and just make the conversation impossible. This even happened on USENet.

AmericanKulak says

The USS Liberty was more than a half-century ago, before Disco, before Nixon, before the VCR.

Yeah. So what. The Holocaust was more than 75 years ago, before Israel existd, before Rock and Roll, before Eisenhower, before Civil Rights, before desegregation, before Elvis, before Count Folke Bernadotte was murdered by order of Yitzhak Shamir when he was one of the triumvirate of Lehi. I guess we can just forget about then. Finally!

Let sleeping dogs lie, RIGHT?

OH... I bet you have another standard for that. Hypocrisy abounds.

AmericanKulak says

What college did Rachel Corrie attend?

Same one as Matt Groening, Evergreen State College. Is that supposed to have relevancy? What does it matter what her mindset was, or even her politics were?

AmericanKulak says

Was she standing up or lying down?

I don't know, you can't discuss it, as I've already pointed out. We TRIED to discuss it at the time, but it was broken up by a bunch of asshole propagandists from GIYUS. Israel would lie about the situation, they often do. The only way to know would be with video evidence and considering it was 2003, cameras were hardly as commonplace as they are now.

AmericanKulak says

Was Rachel Corie a humanitarian, or a useful idiot Socialist, the same kind who claim Maduro was duly elected?

Who cares? Was she purposely killed or not? Again, we couldn't find out because of GIYUS twats. You aren't allowed to discuss anything Israel does, unless you do it in secret. I'm not kidding either.

richwicks says

Don't make a claim you cannot support.

Let's do that : with suspicions of USS Liberty motives, and assertions that Epstein worked for Mossad. Evidence, not speculation. Memos, recordings, etc. like Victoria Nuland's taped phone call re: Ukraine Coup.

From what I've read - including reports from a lecture he gave in Glasgow and some speeches he gave to the National Alliance in the 90s, that's he's anti-semitic. Though I think more of a contrarian who got it in his head young that Britain shouldn't have fought Hitler so he could have had more toys during the WW2 rationing.

richwicks says

OK, source?

Here you go: The content creator compares Irving's claims to the Primary Source Material, and finds Irving added and distorted what was reported, per Evans, who testified for the Defense at Irving vs. Penguin Books. Irving lost, by the way, with the Court deciding it was reasonable to call him a Holocaust Denier.
https://youtu.be/VsLW7VrOpA8?t=39

Walks viewer right through it, and asks the viewer to note the claims being made by Irving, and then compares them to the quotes made by participant of the event in question.

He gives another example of Irving distorting what happened to the Jews in Rome, Kesselring wanting to keep them as laborers, Berlin demanding he send them for "Liquidation".

richwicks says

The motive has been given asserted or speculated upon several times, to draw the US into a war against Egypt by framing Egypt for the attack.

Fixed. There was a Navy investigation into it, yes? The US accepted the indemnities, yes?

richwicks says

Yeah. So what. The Holocaust was more than 75 years ago, before Israel existd, before Rock and Roll, before Eisenhower, before Civil Rights, before desegregation, before Elvis, before Count Folke Bernadotte was murdered by order of Yitzhak Shamir when he was one of the triumvirate of Lehi. I guess we can just forget about then. Finally!

Mmm, I think there's some context differential. We're confusing a friendly fire attack on one ship over an hour with an organized, systemic, multi-year labor/death camp process involving quite a few more people participating somehow as victim or perpetrator.

richwicks says

Who cares? Was she purposely killed or not? Again, we couldn't find out because of GIYUS twats. You aren't allowed to discuss anything Israel does, unless you do it in secret. I'm not kidding either.

We know plenty about Rachel Corie. She came from notorious left radical Evergreen College to enter into a country with the express purpose of assisting in anti-government activities, threw herself in front of a tractor, and perished voluntarily. FAFO, though the driver - who in a sniper protected tractor - with less viewable area - did not see her laying down with the bucket in the way. Of course propagandists will insist they were somehow in the driver's mind and somehow know he really saw her laying down among the rubble.

Plays are made about her, posters printed, moaning and groaning on old Indymedia and Technocracy NOW! and of course Electronic Intifada and various muh Odin websites.

Whereas Sbarro Diners or Achille Lauro Tourists did not enter into their activites with the purpose of opposing an overseas government. Yet they get no attention from the same Humanitarians worried about Peace and Evil compared to the Red Buttinsky from Washington State.

AmericanKulak says

It's to protect...

(FILL IN THE BLANK)

The globalists system. Romney’s kid, and a bunch of others are also on the take. That’s how the globalists pay their minions.

https://babylonbee.com/news/the-us-is-not-a-banana-republic-says-biden-while-showing-off-cool-new-uniform

The most absurd thing is the Presidential Records Act has no crimnal penalty in it.
There's no way they can charge Trump with violating the Espionage Act, which is entirely different.
Edit: Evidently they are trying to pin Espionage Act charges on Trump.
This is absolutely absurd and will not withstand scrutiny.
So, Trump was " selling secrets to our enemies " or similar.
They really are crazy with TDS.

clambo says

The most absurd thing is the Presidential Records Act has no crimnal penalty in it..
There's no way they can charge Trump with violating the Espionage Act, which is entirely different.

This is really a dumb move by Biden/DOJ to slow down political opponent while having similar documents with Biden (perhaps Obama/Bush/Clinton etc).

Blue says

This is really a dumb move by Biden/DOJ to slow down political opponent while having similar documents with Biden (perhaps Obama/Bush/Clinton etc).

Yes, and especially bad because Biden was Vice President with no declassification powers.

At least in Miami there is less chance of a jury that will be dominated by Democrats and Wokes.

I would not want to be a dissident or political target of the Democrats tried in a court in New York City, Alexandria, VA, Tallahassee, etc.

.
.

AmericanKulak says

It's to protect...

(FILL IN THE BLANK)

My fill in the blank answer is the Deep State cabal that is stealing the American citizens blind. I have a lot of respect for Catherine Austin Fitts, who about a year ago conducted an investigation into the government's debt, using CBO official documents and data. To her amazement, she found that, officially, the CBO has over $21 TRILLION "missing and unaccounted for" from their books!

So where do you hide that unimaginable amount of money? In highly secret off shore accounts, where it is then eventually converted to jewels, precious metals, rare art, expensive real estate and even farm land.

Is anyone else just getting numb to this shit? There are legit incriminating things from past presidents and others. Nothing happens or rarely happens. And who gives a shit about classified documents? The bigger worry should be about corporate documents and especially those companies with government contracts.

I'm sure Trump has skeletons in the closet, but at this point I think the witch hunt is just a waste of time. Fact is the Dems need to find an actual candidate. Covid is over. I don't think mail in ballots will be as much this time around.

AmericanKulak says

Let's do that : with suspicions of USS Liberty motives, and assertions that Epstein worked for Mossad.

Oh my fucking god. Here: USS Liberty: https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

They were there. There was no Congressional investigation, it was covered up. When the US government covers something up, it's because the US government was fucking involved with it.

Epstein and ISRAEL, might be Mossad - I don't know how many freaking intelligence agencies Israel has. Epstein's handler was Ghislaine Maxwell, and he was not a brilliant stock trader. He got his money from Les Wexner, who sold Epstein the NYC mansion he bought (which was previously a school), for $1.00. His long time "girlfriend" was Ghislaine Maxwell, whose father was a spy for Mi6, Mossad, and possibly the KGB - that's Robert Maxwell who after he was murdered, got an Israeli state funeral. The Maxwell family, is a family of spies.

It's like, how much fucking evidence do you want?

It's like Mostly Reader denying that there was a coup in Ukraine just because Victoria Nuland was deciding more than 2 weeks and 4 days before Yanukovych was ousted, I mean, it's not absolute proof, maybe it's just a 1 in a trillion coincidence! I can't wake up a man that pretends to sleep.

you can’t and you don’t need to. reality eventually wakes people up when illusion can no longer be maintained by curtain pullers.

WookieMan says

Is anyone else just getting numb to this shit?

You mean Numb to the TDS that has dominated media and now Biden and other deranged maniac Dems are continuing it by taking it to the next level by weaponizing the government to attack the biggest threat to their power, a populist with more votes than any other sitting president In American history?WookieMan says

There are legit incriminating things from past presidents and others.

Yes, but those people supported the deep state globalists. It seems that to some degree Trump did not.WookieMan says

at this point I think the witch hunt is just a waste of time.

The witch hunt is to discredit Trump enough with the swing voters that they can push through some milquetoast globalist schill in either the primary or general election.

WookieMan says

Fact is the Dems need to find an actual candidate

The Dems don’t need a candidate, As long as they have a RINO/Trojan horse globalist schill like DeSantis or Chris Christie they win even if they lose.

WookieMan says

Covid is over. I don't think mail in ballots will be as much this time around.

There will still be enough ballot harvesting in swing districts to change the outcome of the election. Democrats counting votes, or worse yet, “computers” counting votes, guarantees fraud.

PeopleUnited says

The Dems don’t need a candidate, As long as they have a RINO/Trojan horse globalist schill like DeSantis or Chris Christie they win even if they lose.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

People think DeSantis is just great because he put the breaks on the stupid covid policies and ended some bullshit in the culture war.

We're facing a direct confrontation with Russia, a nuclear super power. We are still involved with Yemen, Somalia, and Syria and we're funding Ukraine which is just getting Ukrainians killed.

These wars are bankrupting this nation.

Illegal immigrants are and important issue as well. We have a MAJOR problem with our bureaucracy. If he does nothing with them, nothing important will change.

You might well point out he's ended a lot of this transkids bullshit in Florida. How many kids does this effect? Estimates place the current number of "transkids" at about 0.7% of the population, and Florida isn't that much on extreme liberalism.

Still, I think they will steal the election for the Democrats. Part of the reason they do this is to underscore that we can't vote our way out of this.

AmericanKulak says

Here you go: The content creator compares Irving's claims to the Primary Source Material, and finds Irving added and distorted what was reported, per Evans, who testified for the Defense at Irving vs. Penguin Books. Irving lost, by the way, with the Court deciding it was reasonable to call him a Holocaust Denier.
https://youtu.be/VsLW7VrOpA8?t=39

No specific examples are provided in that video of errors of Irving. The quotes of Richard J. Evans (if they ARE his quotes) are all just ad-hominem. These are 3rd party opinions.

There's no links to primary documents.

I don't want to read 3rd party accounts. My German is terrible, but translators aren't.

I know this is a hurdle to climb, but I'm forever fucking pissed off nobody links to documents. Nobody. I mean, is there not enough room on the Internet?

I'm not so much concerned about who Hitler was either. I'm concerned if Jewish bodies were being turned into soap and lampshades, and if 6 million people were killed in gas chambers. Those are the big lies.

This is the sort of shit I wade through on this subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhCbHZPwEEQ

"Max Blumenthal interviews Holocaust denier David Irving"

Irving isn't a holocaust denier. His position is simply that he cannot find any evidence of actual gas chambers, he can't find any orders to exterminate people in gas chambers. He believes PLENTY of Jews were killed, just there were no gas chamber camps. Why would there be?

If I was a sociopath and I wanted to just kill people, I'd shovel them on a train, and I'd fill the trains with carbon monoxide. They wouldn't even know what was happening. They'd get giddy first, then sleepy, then die. They'd have no idea what was happening to them unless they were experienced with oxygen deprivation. I wouldn't use a CYANIDE POISON. I might just use Nitrogen with no oxygen in the gas. That works just as well. I'm not a chemist, but I think that would be more difficult to do in 1940 something. I suppose you could remove oxygen by burning iron dust. You can burn a brillo pad.

AmericanKulak says

Walks viewer right through it, and asks the viewer to note the claims being made by Irving, and then compares them to the quotes made by participant of the event in question.

What book? What page? What speech? What video?

Why isn't that information included?

WookieMan says

Fact is the Dems need to find an actual candidate.

I had high hopes that Kennedy could be that candidate, but then he comes out and supports the ridiculously corrupt US-instigated war in Ukraine, proving he's just another puppet after all.

Patrick says

WookieMan says

Fact is the Dems need to find an actual candidate.

I had high hopes that Kennedy could be that candidate, but then he comes out and supports the ridiculously corrupt US-instigated war in Ukraine, proving he's just another puppet after all.

Remember what politics is - in order to be in it, you have to be willing to lie. He MIGHT be lying, he might be ignorant, but even worse, he might be lying about Ukraine yet STILL support the war.

I can't see how our establishment in either party can't see Ukraine is just being fucked by this war. It's going to destroy the country one way or another. The death toll is horrific and I've heard as low as 150,000 Ukrainians dead up to 300,000 dead. The LOWEST estimate is just mind boggling for a country of 25 million people. They lowest estimate would be 0.6% of the population, double that to 1.2% because only men are fighting, and double it again because it's civil war and you get about 2.4%. Now if you double it again if it's at the highest estimate, that's about 5% of the male population of Western Ukraine. It's horrifying. That's 1 out of 20 men.

Kennedy is the best out of the bunch on the DNC side. For RNC, I would say Trump then DeSantis and I don't trust DeSantis.

Any candidate blessed by the establishment will be yet another disaster.

PeopleUnited says

The witch hunt is to discredit Trump enough with the swing voters that they can push through some milquetoast globalist schill in either the primary or general election.

Correct. Many people who would vote for Trump will not because Trump is now "divisive" of "controversial."

PeopleUnited says

There will still be enough ballot harvesting in swing districts to change the outcome of the election. Democrats counting votes, or worse yet, “computers” counting votes, guarantees fraud.

Correct. They know they will get away with fraud, so the strategy will be to manufacture ballots in critical districts.

PeopleUnited says

The Dems don’t need a candidate, As long as they have a RINO/Trojan horse globalist schill like DeSantis or Chris Christie they win even if they lose.

You know - at some point you guys will have to show some real evidence and ACTIONS supporting the lame and retarded claim that DeSantis is some sort of "Globalist Schill".

If I stack up the actual governing accomplishments of DeSantis against Trump's governing accomplishments of Trump going soft on crime, doing nothing about education, doing nothing about spending, being soft on the LGBTQ+ mafia, allowing Fauci to shut the country down and generally getting circles run around him by the Deep State - it is a no brainer IMO.

If Trump was smart - he would be stepping back and putting his support around DeSantis hoping he will get a pardon.

IF the purported video is true of Trump opening his big mouth and bragging and showing off Iran battle plans to people lacking security clearance and acknowledging that he didn't declassify the docs while President - I think Trump's goose is cooked - and rightfully so.

Trump was the first President I can recall who didn’t start any wars.

DeSantis certainly will, if given a chance, or at least he will continue Ukraine. Trump might actually be able to end it.

PeopleUnited says

Trump might actually be able to end it.

It would end as soon as Trump won the election.

https://protrumpnews.com/donald-trump-widens-lead-over-primary-field-post-indictment/

Donald Trump Widens Lead Over Primary Field Post Indictment

The indictment of Donald Trump is making him even stronger.

According to a post-indictment CBS Poll, Donald Trump continues to dominate the GOP primary.

He has his biggest lead yet.

Twitter:

Trump — 61% (+38)
DeSantis — 23%
T. Scott — 4%
Pence — 4%
Haley — 3%
Ramaswamy — 1%
Hutchinson — 1%
Burgum — 1%
Elder — 1%
Christie — 1%

Breitbart reported:

A poll indicates that former President Donald Trump has widened his lead in the GOP primary following the Department of Justice’s indictment of him for allegedly mishandling classified documents at his Florida home.

Surveying 1,798 potential voters between June 9-10 with a margin of error ±3.3 points, the CBS News poll showed the former president had 61 percent support in the Republican primary, leading his opponent, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis by a full 38 points – 61 percent to 23 percent. Republican Sen. Tim Scott (SC) stands in third place with just 4 percent of support, just one point ahead of former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley.

The poll had more great news for Donald Trump.

.

If I am a political target of the Democrat DOJ and FBI like a Soviet-era dissident, I rather be tried in a federal court in Miami then in a Democrat of Woke shithole like Tallahassee, New York City, Atlanta, or Alexandria, Virginia.

It will be less of a chance of a Soviet Show Trial.

.

HeadSet says

PeopleUnited says

Trump might actually be able to end it.

It would end as soon as Trump won the election.

I envy your faith.

I honestly do. This isn't to insult your or diminish you, but my hope doesn't come from god, or any faith, it's experience.

I don't think Trump will be allowed to run, and even if he's allowed to run and even he's made president, he won't be allowed to end the war.

I have NO FAITH in this government at all. None. And I don't believe there's a super entity looking over us. I wish I could believe it. I don't even think 1/2 the people on this planet are even human at this point, seriously. They are more robot than human. I hear the television babble come out of them all the time.

The liberals, democrats, losers, fags, trannies and their ilk all remind me of the girls I have dated when they get drunk; they all act out their rage and never consider that the consequences are negative for them, leaving me unscathed.

Any thinking liberal (a contradiction) would see that they are turning Trump into a martyr with all of the bullshit about nothing.

What's next?; they kick down your door and say "You didn't save the last 7 years of your 1040! Book him Danno!"

I hope that Trump stomps their sorry loser asses into the dirt, and the guilty go to prison to bust rocks under the hot sun.

richwicks says

I don't think Trump will be allowed to run, and even if he's allowed to run and even he's made president, he won't be allowed to end the war.

The Commiecrats are running the Leftist playbook that has been played in every country that has had a Nationalist leader elected as their leader.
The Left in those countries did everything they could to undermine them, and when they failed, they trumped up bullshit charges. Many were even arrested.
In every single instance, not only did that Conservative populist beat those cases, but went on to win the next election, or had the Global Homo apparatus steal the election they would have won in a landslide.
Lefty idiots will keep trying the same thing over and over, even when they saw it fail when other's tried it.

It happened in Hungary, Italy, Israel and Brazil. It will be no different here.
Lula will end up in jail eventually and Bolanario will be the President of Brazil again.

ad says

It will be less of a chance of a Soviet Show Trial.

I dunno. Miami is quite woke as well, and I am sure they shopped for the correct judge. "Even a red state court convicted him!"

socal2 says

real evidence and ACTIONS supporting the lame and retarded claim that DeSantis is some sort of "Globalist Schill

He is liked by supporters of the Ukraine war.

ad says

less of a chance of a Soviet Show Trial.

It IS a show trial!

Democrats, Media and the Deep-state are playing us like a drum. Conservatives and Libertarians are supposed to be about logic and recognize the world for the flaws we have, but we are letting our emotions get the best of us and we are sleepwalking into another bloodbath if we nominate Trump - IMO.

IF the reporting on the video is true of Trump showing classified battle plans to people and bragging that they were still classified - this is incredibly illegal
and reckless incompetence by Trump to give the Democrats and the Deep-state this much ammunition.

Doesn't matter how much we say "But Hillary" or complain about a biased judicial system - a jury is only going to see the video tape of Trump bragging about committing a crime. These aren't insignificant mementos. Battle plans aren't the personal papers or documents of Trump.

Despite some notable accomplishments on judges, immigration and foreign policy, Trump was awful on domestic policy, having no experience, staff or skill to dismantle our corrupt Government bureaucracies. Trump bailed on his allies like Flynn in a New York minute, gave Bureaucrats like Fauci and Wray free reign and is now bad mouthing all of his former staff that were halfway competent. Who the fuck is going to work with Trump 2.0 that has any skill?

Before Trump turned all Liberal this past month, DeSantis shared 98% of Trump's positions and has the experience, brains and DISCIPLINE to dismantle the FBI and DOJ. DeSantis is also polling better against any Democrat than Trump currently is in the General.

But we are to believe that DeSantis is a secret Globalist Homo (because reasons??) and that Only Trump can get done in 4 years what he failed to do in 2016-2020........all the while Trump is even more handicapped by indictments, age, not competent staff and term limits?

Are we really this fucking retarded?

socal2 says

Are we really this fucking retarded?

Depends, who did you vote for?

Onvacation says

Depends, who did you vote for?

I voted for Trump in 2020 and will vote for him again above any Democrat in 24. I think Trump is getting screwed, but he is also bringing alot of this onto himself.

What I won't accept is that Trump was perfect and he is the ONLY candidate that can win in 24 and get things done.

Here is Trump just a few years ago defending his pick of Wray at the FBI because Democrats liked him and Chris Christie vouched for him. There are so many painful examples like this where Trump made very bad decisions on personnel and policy because he wanted to be liked by his former Democrat friends and assholes in the Media and Hollywood.

https://twitter.com/NvrBackDown24/status/1668419225185026048

socal2 says

What I won't accept is that Trump was perfect and he is the ONLY candidate that can win in 24 and get things done.

Who's claiming Trump is perfect? He's better than Biden.

DeSantis reminds me of Romney; a spoiler of elections secretly working for the communists trying to take over America.

socal2 says

There are so many painful examples like this where Trump made very bad decisions on personnel and policy

Agreed. It makes you wonder if he is just a hired actor paid for by the very deep state he claims to battle.