patrick.net

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person, but becomes a person pretty quickly as the brain starts to develop.

Patrick says

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person

What is it then?

HeadSet says

Patrick says

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person

What is it then?

Same as a skin flake.

When you think about it, you're nothing but a nest of cells, a colony, a swarm.

richwicks says

Same as a skin flake.

Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 considers those cells to be victims of homicide when the mother is killed too. Of course we have to have a provision that mentions that it's totally not the same thing for abortion because the mother chose to terminate.

https://notthebee.com/article/heres-5-straight-minutes-of-democrats-saying-they-agree-with-abortion-up-to-birth



Tons of Democrats do.

I support abortion until the first report card...If your kid is a dumb fuck, you can just kill him...lol

I don't have a religious bone in my body. If you test and are pregnant you woman up and have the damn child. If you want the abortion you get to go with it, as in you die too. You weren't responsible or willing to bring life to this planet. I don't want any of that shit here. Goodbye. You're both dead and don't get to spread your weak sauce throughout society. So yes, I'm for abortion if it gets rid of the scum bag women that couldn't keep their legs closed. Rant over.

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Why can't pro-life people just say "Overturning Roe has just made America's abortion policies more like Europe's with some reasonable restrictions and less like Communist China and Stalinist North Korea".

socal2 says

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Why can't pro-life people just say "Overturning Roe has just made America's abortion policies more like Europe's with some reasonable restrictions and less like Communist China and Stalinist North Korea".

Because unborn babies don’t vote and most people who are pro life won’t do what it takes to end it.

They just sentenced some abortion protesters to 11 years in jail for briefly blocking a clinic entrance. Any movement that lets that happen to their supporters is powerless. What should have happened after the first group was arrested is 5 more should have gone the next day to block the door. Then 5 more the next day. And so on…

Until your movement has a large number of supporters willing to actually sacrifice something, you will change nothing.

Also, to expand on what I said above. Logically life begins at conception and I believe that. But I’m not going to go to prison for 11 years for blocking a clinic entrance. And most pro life people are the same as me.

I think people sense the discrepancy between pro life people’s words and actions, and I think that weakens the message. If pro life people’s actions started to match their message, and a huge non-violent civil disobedience movement started, I think it would persuade the middle and end abortion.

socal2 says

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Dems just had a "sweep" in Virginia powered mainly by campaigning for abortion on demand all the way to birth. The Dems won because woman voters and their soy men think that the Republican idea of 15 weeks with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother was an unacceptable attack on women's rights.

HeadSet says

socal2 says

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Dems just had a "sweep" in Virginia powered mainly by campaigning for abortion on demand all the way to birth. The Dems won because woman voters and their soy men think that the Republican idea of 15 weeks with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother was an unacceptable attack on women's rights.

republicans suck at campaigning big time, even in Idaho.

Republicans should let go on abortion. Push for a simple reform such as making it legal for first trimester and that's it. It's a losing battle against 50% of the population. Let leftoid womyn abort. Take back the reign when it's time. Win by demographic.

mell says

Push for a simple reform such as making it legal for first trimester and that's it.

Virginia Republicans had it at 15 weeks, and the pro-abortion crowd clobbered them.

Leftards be like, let me kill my baby or we kill you next. That’s not really an exaggeration.

HeadSet says

mell says

Push for a simple reform such as making it legal for first trimester and that's it.

Virginia Republicans had it at 15 weeks, and the pro-abortion crowd clobbered them.

That's fine, there is enough support for it in many states as well as overall federally. Some states will always try carving out their own solutions. It had roughly 50/50 support in VA, not enough in the days of election harvesting. Other states will pass it and Republicans need to start improving their election game.

pudil says

Until your movement has a large number of supporters willing to actually sacrifice something, you will change nothing.

It's not about numbers on the pro life side. It's about leverage AND numbers. Abortion lovers turned it into a woman's rights issue. 50% plus of the population. Out of the gates the movement will win once you factor in the cucked men that have no problem killing a child. That's a monumental hurdle to overcome.

Pro life needs to air commercials with a family (multiple preferably) that were so close to having an abortion but decided to have the kid. I know of plenty. My own SIL had 3 abortions if I recall. She finally kept one. Has it been perfect. No. Is he basically my kid now. Yes. Our family, his friends, life wouldn't be the same without him. Pro life needs stories like that. Not pictures of dead babies outside an abortion clinic.

I don't have a religious bone in my body. But I know what is right. The focus should be on the positives of having a child. Not showing grotesque photos of aborted babies. The messaging needs to change. Women are emotional. You show them a positive outcome you could easily flip 20-30% of them from the abortion crowd. My SIL made her mess, but she still loves her son and regrets her abortions. Odd are there wouldn't have been one abortion if she just had the first one.

WookieMan says

Pro life needs to air commercials with a family (multiple preferably) that were so close to having an abortion but decided to have the kid. I know of plenty. My own SIL had 3 abortions if I recall. She finally kept one. Has it been perfect. No. Is he basically my kid now. Yes. Our family, his friends, life wouldn't be the same without him. Pro life needs stories like that. Not pictures of dead babies outside an abortion clinic.

I don't have a religious bone in my body. But I know what is right. The focus should be on the positives of having a child. Not showing grotesque photos of aborted babies. The messaging needs to change. Women are emotional. You show them a positive outcome you could easily flip 20-30% of them from the abortion crowd. My SIL made her mess, but she still loves her son and regrets her abortions. Odd are there wouldn't have been one abortion if she just had the first one.

My SIL was adopted - she now has 3 daughters, 2 of whom are college age. If she had been eaten by the D&C roto-router, there would have been one less family in the world.

I agree - there needs to be orders of magnitude more positive pro-life messaging. For most women especially, once they get old enough, they'll regret having sacrificed family for career or chasing the alpha Chads.

This is all part of the immoral social cancer the West has been embracing for some time now. It's part of a much larger problem.

WookieMan says

I don't have a religious bone in my body.

I bet many an altar boy wished he could say that.

WookieMan says

It's not about numbers on the pro life side. It's about leverage AND numbers. Abortion lovers turned it into a woman's rights issue. 50% plus of the population. Out of the gates the movement will win once you factor in the cucked men that have no problem killing a child. That's a monumental hurdle to overcome.

This.

stereotomy says

I agree - there needs to be orders of magnitude more positive pro-life messaging. For most women especially, once they get old enough, they'll regret having sacrificed family for career or chasing the alpha Chads.

Problem is it's a token pat on the back. I get it all the time. "What you're doing is so great." FUCK YOU. I know for a fact 100% of people wouldn't do what I do. Which is what angers me about abortion. It's a fucking cop out from responsibility. You decided to kill a kid/baby/child/whatever because you were too big of a pussy. Man/Woman up. Own you killed a human.

I have one now that I didn't want and love the hell out of the kid. Could be dead. Whatever I guess to the abortion crowd. Momma didn't want her vag stretched out. If you're not willing to have a baby keep your fucking legs closed..... It ain't women's rights at this point.

WookieMan says

The messaging needs to change. Women are emotional. You show them a positive outcome you could easily flip 20-30% of them from the abortion crowd.

I like the optimism. I was born and raised in a deep blue state and basically nothing will change most of their minds on the issue. There is absolutely no other issue that they're absolutely willing to kill for than abortion. The pro-abortionists are 110% psychotic about the issue and there is absolutely no nuance when it comes to the topic to them.

Many women have essentially been made to believe that there will be a very specific and recognizable point in the future where they will be ready to have children and any time before that is too soon and should be aborted by default. The previous combined with a culture that simply doesn't promote the miracle of life and its value makes for dark times. Your idea of running ads is an interesting one but you have to remember what you're competing with. You're not just competing with pro-abortion commercials and posters, you're competing with every single big TV show geared towards women having pro-abortion storylines going back decades now. You're competing with Hollywood. Worst of all, you're competing with the immature instinct of humans to take the path of least responsibility.

Perhaps some other messaging is necessary. Ok - fine - let's really think deeper about abortion.

Woman has the "choice" and the man the responsibility. If she has an abortion he is off the hook.
If she has the child, it is his responsibility to support (and that really means supporting the mama).
Perhaps encouraging women to realize that they can have it all by simply having a child. From a pro-life position, play this out!
Run ads encouraging women to keep the child because that child will be supported. Support
legal foundations that jail deadbeat dads and really make it about a way of life: fooling some man
into unsafe sex. Etc... You can imagine the ads that could run.

Of course, most smart woman would abort the child of a dead beat, but if the father is reasonably
employed then why not have the baby? Or if government steps in and funds some basic level? Like we already do for welfare, etc...

It can work both ways as well- maybe men will realize they have ceded too much of their own reproductive rights
and that might cloud the issue to the point where there becomes a decision point: either men have
reproductive rights similar to women (right to not pay for the child if she chooses to have it and they are unmarried)
OR both men and women decide that pro-life places an equal burden on both parties. Women don't get the
choice, and the man must own up.

Pro-lifers might be upset if the decision is to allow men to "opt out" of unwanted pregnancies, but that also might
then discourage woman from getting pregnant to begin with... as well, pro-choice side might be upset because it really equalizes
the reproductive rights of both sexes.

Current pro life messaging, no matter how honorable the position, will be defeated. Words matter and
flinging words like "ban" instead of "some restrictions" provides no way for a moderate person to support.

The driving 'spirit' of Planned Parenthood, as expressed by its founder Margaret Sanger:

"But for my view, I believe that there should be no more babies."
-- Interview with John Parsons, 1947

"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
-- Woman and the New Race, Chapter 5, "The Wickedness of Creating Large Families." (1920) http://www.bartleby.com/1013/

"We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population..."
-- Letter to Dr. Clarence J. Gamble, December 10, 1939, p. 2
https://libex.smith.edu/omeka/...

“I accepted an invitation to talk to the women's branch of the Ku Klux Klan... I was escorted to the platform, was introduced, and began to speak...In the end, through simple illustrations I believed I had accomplished my purpose. A dozen invitations to speak to similar groups were proffered.”
-- Margaret Sanger, An Autobiography, published in 1938, p. 366

“I think the greatest sin in the world is bringing children into the world, that have disease from their parents, that have no chance in the world to be a human being practically... Delinquents, prisoners, all sorts of things just marked when they’re born. That to me is the greatest sin—that people can—can commit.”
-- Interview with journalist Mike Wallace, 1957

“The most serious evil of our times is that of encouraging the bringing into the world of large families. The most immoral practice of the day is breeding too many children..."
-- Sanger, Margaret. Woman and the New Race (1920). Chapter 5: The Wickedness of Creating Large Families. http://www.bartleby.com/1013/5...

“Eugenics without birth control seems to us a house builded [sic] upon the sands. It is at the mercy of the rising stream of the unfit.”
-- Sanger, Margaret. (1919) Birth Control and Racial Betterment. The Birth Control Review.

“A marriage license shall in itself give husband and wife only the right to a common household and not the right to parenthood."
-- Margaret Sanger, "America Needs a Code for Babies," Article 3, 27 Mar 1934.
https://www.nyu.edu/projects/s...

"No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child, and no man shall have the right to become a father, without a permit for parenthood."
-- Margaret Sanger, "America Needs a Code for Babies," Article 4, March 27, 1934.

"Permits for parenthood shall be issued upon application by city, county, or state authorities to married couples, providing they are financially able to support the expected child, have the qualifications needed for proper rearing of the child, have no transmissible diseases, and, on the woman’s part, no medical indication that maternity is likely to result in death or permanent injury to health."
-- Margaret Sanger, "America Needs a Code for Babies," Article 5, March 27, 1934.

"No permit for parenthood shall be valid for more than one birth..."
-- Margaret Sanger, "America Needs a Code for Babies," Article 6, March 27, 1934.

"Apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring."
-- Sanger, Margaret. “My Way to Peace,” Jan. 17, 1932. Margaret Sanger Papers, Library of Congress 130:198. https://www.nyu.edu/projects/s...

“All of our problems are the result of overbreeding among the working class... Knowledge of birth control is essentially moral. Its general, though prudent, practice must lead to a higher individuality and ultimately to a cleaner race.”
-- Margaret Sanger, "Morality and Birth Control," Feb-Mar 1918.
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sa...

krc says

Perhaps some other messaging is necessary. Ok - fine - let's really think deeper about abortion.

Woman has the "choice" and the man the responsibility. If she has an abortion he is off the hook.
If she has the child, it is his responsibility to support (and that really means supporting the mama).
Perhaps encouraging women to realize that they can have it all by simply having a child. From a pro-life position, play this out!
Run ads encouraging women to keep the child because that child will be supported. Support
legal foundations that jail deadbeat dads and really make it about a way of life: fooling some man
into unsafe sex. Etc... You can imagine the ads that could run.

Of course, most smart woman would abort the child of a dead beat, but if the father is reasonably
employed then why not have the baby? Or if government steps in and funds some basic level? Like we already do for welfare, etc...

It can work both ways as well- maybe men will realize they have ceded too much of their own reproductive rights
and that might cloud the issue to the point where there becomes a decision point: either men have
reproductive rights similar to women (right to not pay for the child if she chooses to have it and they are unmarried)
OR both men and women decide that pro-life places an equal burden on both parties. Women don't get the
choice, and the man must own up.

Pro-lifers might be upset if the decision is to allow men to "opt out" of unwanted pregnancies, but that also might
then discourage woman from getting pregnant to begin with... as well, pro-choice side might be upset because it really equalizes
the reproductive rights of both sexes.

Current pro life messaging, no matter how honorable the position, will be defeated. Words matter and
flinging words like "ban" instead of "some restrictions" provides no way for a moderate person to support.

Exactly! Bring back slut shaming!

krc says

Words matter and
flinging words like "ban" instead of "some restrictions" provides no way for a moderate person to support.

That does not matter. Half the population considers ANY restrictions on abortion as an attack on women's rights. And that "women's health" issue totally overrides any issues on the economy, illegals, and war. The GOP lost the 2022 midterms because of the Roe v Wade turnover by the courts and Linsay Graham saying it would be a Republican goal to nationalize an abortion ban. Dems just made big gains in Virginia and Ohio soley by defending unlimited abortion.

DhammaStep says

I was born and raised in a deep blue state and basically nothing will change most of their minds on the issue. There is absolutely no other issue that they're absolutely willing to kill for than abortion.

Abortion is a sacrament to 'Progressive' women. They hold it dear as a right of passage. You are not one of the true sisterhood until you have killed a fetus.
Until you approach menopause and it takes an extra bottle of wine to get through the night, while you rage at your ex's on Facebook.

https://babylonbee.com/cleanArticle/democrats-say-they-need-immigration-to-replace-all-the-democrats-they-aborted

https://notthebee.com/article/future-obgyn-says-she-will-leave-wisconsin-after-graduation-if-she-is-prevented-from-aborting-full-term-babies

socal2 says

Why can't pro-life people just say "Overturning Roe has just made America's abortion policies more like Europe's with some reasonable restrictions and less like Communist China and Stalinist North Korea".

The purpose of the "debate" is to stir up people to fight among one another.

Roe v. Wade is dead, it's been repealed. What has changed? Where are the protests and marches?

It was NEVER an issue.

People who are aborting their babies, are less likely to have children. People that don't are more likely to have children. The "problem" is solved. For 40 years there has been abortion allowed by federal mandate. Children, whether you believe this or not, adopt the morality and thinking of their parents, because their parents are BY FAR the most influential on them. The people that would have accepted ideas that would prevent them from having children, have either less children, or no children.

I just take a different tact, and encourage very left wing whacko women to abort all their pregnancies, because if they do, the world ends up in a better place, and it does.