Why do we have a national debt at all?
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2023 Mar 27, 9:37am 14,773 views 128 comments
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99
AD
2024 Feb 9, 10:40am
AD
2024 Feb 9, 10:40am
AmericanKulak says
yep, so the "tax" on the working and middle class is guvmint-reported inflation
inflate out of a debt crisis seems like a perpetual feat
.
D says
its all about cash flow ... not enough income to match expenses and the federal government does not have assets or savings to cover its expenses ...
Print it.
Why tax at all? Most of the budget is borrowed.
yep, so the "tax" on the working and middle class is guvmint-reported inflation
inflate out of a debt crisis seems like a perpetual feat
.
100
AmericanKulak
2024 Feb 9, 10:42am
AmericanKulak
2024 Feb 9, 10:42am
Tobin Tax would be great as well.
The arguments against it are retarded.
"I pay $7.95 to a broker for a trade, it would be a great injustice to pay 50 cents more in tax for a total of $8.45! I'll be bankrupt if I had to do that! Unfair!"
Seriously, there's a tax on buying pink lawn flamingoes from Ace Hardware but you can trade thousands of shares without paying sales tax?
The arguments against it are retarded.
"I pay $7.95 to a broker for a trade, it would be a great injustice to pay 50 cents more in tax for a total of $8.45! I'll be bankrupt if I had to do that! Unfair!"
Seriously, there's a tax on buying pink lawn flamingoes from Ace Hardware but you can trade thousands of shares without paying sales tax?
101
HeadSet
2024 Feb 9, 11:13am
HeadSet
2024 Feb 9, 11:13am
AmericanKulak says
That sounds like you want to have a tax on the broker fee and not a sales tax on the shares sold. To keep that pink flamingo analogy, one would pay a tax on the actual shares purchased. That is, buy $100 worth of stock, even without a broker fee like at Schwab, pay a $4 (at 4%) sales tax.
"I pay $7.95 to a broker for a trade, it would be a great injustice to pay 50 cents more in tax for a total of $8.45! I'll be bankrupt if I had to do that! Unfair!"
Seriously, there's a tax on buying pink lawn flamingoes from Ace Hardware but you can trade thousands of shares without paying sales tax?
That sounds like you want to have a tax on the broker fee and not a sales tax on the shares sold. To keep that pink flamingo analogy, one would pay a tax on the actual shares purchased. That is, buy $100 worth of stock, even without a broker fee like at Schwab, pay a $4 (at 4%) sales tax.
102
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Feb 9, 1:40pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Feb 9, 1:40pm
UkraineIsFucked says
16th's passage the same year the current central bank was chartered is pure coincidence...
There's no constutional amendment involving the Fed.
16th's passage the same year the current central bank was chartered is pure coincidence...
103
WookieMan
2024 Feb 9, 2:09pm
WookieMan
2024 Feb 9, 2:09pm
Everyone does realize that anyone alive and including unborn great grand kids will never pay the debt. It will never be repaid. That's the point. That's why we fight wars. Why in the flying fuck would you admit to wars and proxy wars that it was because you don't want to pay people back? It's nasty, but I'm glad to be a citizen of the most powerful one that can get away with it. Enjoy it. You got one life.
104
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Feb 9, 5:04pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Feb 9, 5:04pm
NuttBoxer says
No. But Fed's charter has nothing to do with amending the Constitution. In fact, the Fed is the third national bank chartered by Congress.
16th's passage the same year the current central bank was chartered is pure coincidence...
No. But Fed's charter has nothing to do with amending the Constitution. In fact, the Fed is the third national bank chartered by Congress.
105
Ceffer
2024 Feb 9, 6:18pm
Ceffer
2024 Feb 9, 6:18pm
What doesn't anybody understand about 'Babylonian Debt Slavery' and 'fiat printing press money'? Our taxes are collected by the Vatican, and whatever they deem fit is deposited in the IMF or BIS and then lent back to us at an interest rate (low, but still interest) and the debt is meant to enslave, and keep the government operating at a deficit beholden to the various Euro banksters and mafias.
106
Someone_else
2024 Feb 9, 6:31pm
If you or I had a printing press in the basement and it made money, would we be in debt?
107
HeadSet
2024 Feb 9, 6:47pm
HeadSet
2024 Feb 9, 6:47pm
Someone_else says
Yes, if you are married.
If you or I had a printing press in the basement and it made money, would we be in debt?
Yes, if you are married.
108
AD
2024 Feb 9, 6:48pm
AD
2024 Feb 9, 6:48pm
Someone_else says
All that does is reward people with free money.
So there is essentially more demand but at best the same amount of supply.
If you are going to give out money, make sure there is enough innovation and productivity to provide adequate supply.
If you or I had a printing press in the basement and it made money, would we be in debt?
All that does is reward people with free money.
So there is essentially more demand but at best the same amount of supply.
If you are going to give out money, make sure there is enough innovation and productivity to provide adequate supply.
109
PeopleUnited
2024 Feb 9, 6:59pm
PeopleUnited
2024 Feb 9, 6:59pm
WookieMan says
Well said. The debt is paid in blood. We the people are collateral, and the elites will trade our lives and labor like bargaining chips on the global market.
. That's why we fight wars. Why in the flying fuck would you admit to wars and proxy wars that it was because you don't want to pay people back?
Well said. The debt is paid in blood. We the people are collateral, and the elites will trade our lives and labor like bargaining chips on the global market.
110
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Feb 11, 8:52am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Feb 11, 8:52am
UkraineIsFucked says
Your statements seem to be at odds.
NuttBoxer says
16th's passage the same year the current central bank was chartered is pure coincidence...
No. But Fed's charter has nothing to do with amending the Constitution...
Your statements seem to be at odds.
113
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Feb 12, 7:40pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Feb 12, 7:40pm
Does Cloward Pivan believe that you can inflate your way out of anything?
114
AD
2024 Feb 12, 10:22pm
AD
2024 Feb 12, 10:22pm
.
8% of 2022 federal budget was for net interest
https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/where-does-all-the-money-go/
I wonder what it is for 2024.
They should hold outlays (or the federal budget) as constant for at least 3 years to reduce the growth of deficits:
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Overview
.
At least outlays from 2023 to 2024 only increase by about 1% thanks to the leadership of House of Representatives Speaker Johnson.
.
8% of 2022 federal budget was for net interest
https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/where-does-all-the-money-go/
I wonder what it is for 2024.
They should hold outlays (or the federal budget) as constant for at least 3 years to reduce the growth of deficits:
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Overview
.
At least outlays from 2023 to 2024 only increase by about 1% thanks to the leadership of House of Representatives Speaker Johnson.
.
115
AmericanKulak
2024 Feb 12, 11:53pm
AmericanKulak
2024 Feb 12, 11:53pm
GNL says
Partially. I mean the hofare wasn't enough. Now they have to import 9M and give them more than hofare does, like pre-paid charge cards and hotel rooms. Even Shaniqua didn't get months at a Manhattan or SF hotel at $200/day.
Cloward–Piven strategy?
Partially. I mean the hofare wasn't enough. Now they have to import 9M and give them more than hofare does, like pre-paid charge cards and hotel rooms. Even Shaniqua didn't get months at a Manhattan or SF hotel at $200/day.
116
AmericanKulak
2024 Feb 12, 11:55pm
AmericanKulak
2024 Feb 12, 11:55pm
HeadSet says
A transaction tax on Shares, like a sales tax, sure.
We definitely don't have a turnover or liquidity problem. Restoring a dividend-centric stock market might be better.
Paying taxes on money making money seems fairer than taxing productive income. I'd rather tax a surgeon's stock trades than tax his earned income.
That sounds like you want to have a tax on the broker fee and not a sales tax on the shares sold. To keep that pink flamingo analogy, one would pay a tax on the actual shares purchased. That is, buy $100 worth of stock, even without a broker fee like at Schwab, pay a $4 (at 4%) sales tax.
A transaction tax on Shares, like a sales tax, sure.
We definitely don't have a turnover or liquidity problem. Restoring a dividend-centric stock market might be better.
Paying taxes on money making money seems fairer than taxing productive income. I'd rather tax a surgeon's stock trades than tax his earned income.
118
PeopleUnited
2024 Feb 13, 6:25am
PeopleUnited
2024 Feb 13, 6:25am
zzyzzx says
Stop funding warfare programs as well. It’s one thing to have a well equipped military. It’s quite another to play policeman for the world.
Stop funding all welfare programs and the budget will be balanced.
Stop funding warfare programs as well. It’s one thing to have a well equipped military. It’s quite another to play policeman for the world.
120
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Jun 19, 7:03pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Jun 19, 7:03pm
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
"Ferguson’s Law states that any great power that spends more on debt service (interest payments on the national debt) than on defense will not stay great for very long. True of Hapsburg Spain, true of ancien régime France, true of the Ottoman Empire, true of the British Empire." -Niall Ferguson
121
Patrick
2024 Jun 19, 7:18pm
Patrick
2024 Jun 19, 7:18pm
So why do we have any fucking national debt at all?
Just so the Fed can get interest payments from taxpayers?
Just so the Fed can get interest payments from taxpayers?
122
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
2024 Jun 19, 7:22pm
Patrick says
i don’t understand how this shit works too. they sell bonds, pay interest on bonds…
So why do we have any fucking national debt at all?
Just so the Fed can get interest payments from taxpayers?
i don’t understand how this shit works too. they sell bonds, pay interest on bonds…
123
stereotomy
2024 Jun 19, 7:34pm
stereotomy
2024 Jun 19, 7:34pm
To answer the OP question: It's to keep the banksters happy.
Debt, as @Wookieman says is a contract which can be broken. You can't imprison people chained in your basement for unpaid debts to you like they did in the Roman Empire. On the other hand, they're trying to bring back debtors prisons via the backdoor of court fees.
In the early years of this country, the Colonies had issued debt to finance the Revolutionary War in part. After the war, Hamilton successfully pushed to have these bonds repaid at 100%. Of course, his cronies had been buying up Colonial debt for pennies on the dollar before this happened.
Who knows, maybe Aaron Burr did us a favor?
Debt, as @Wookieman says is a contract which can be broken. You can't imprison people chained in your basement for unpaid debts to you like they did in the Roman Empire. On the other hand, they're trying to bring back debtors prisons via the backdoor of court fees.
In the early years of this country, the Colonies had issued debt to finance the Revolutionary War in part. After the war, Hamilton successfully pushed to have these bonds repaid at 100%. Of course, his cronies had been buying up Colonial debt for pennies on the dollar before this happened.
Who knows, maybe Aaron Burr did us a favor?
124
Patrick
2024 Jun 19, 7:52pm
Patrick
2024 Jun 19, 7:52pm
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says
@FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
It's deliberately complicated. The US government sells bonds to get cash, and the Fed buys those bonds with newly printed dollars.
So the Fed starts with nothing, but gets interest payments from all of us on money it created out of thin air.
Patrick says
So why do we have any fucking national debt at all?
Just so the Fed can get interest payments from taxpayers?
i don’t understand how this shit works too. they sell bonds, pay interest on bonds…
@FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
It's deliberately complicated. The US government sells bonds to get cash, and the Fed buys those bonds with newly printed dollars.
So the Fed starts with nothing, but gets interest payments from all of us on money it created out of thin air.
125
stereotomy
2024 Jun 19, 8:01pm
stereotomy
2024 Jun 19, 8:01pm
Patrick says
The Fed supposedly reimburses the gubment for any interest it collects on the Treasuries it holds. It's real profits stem from the power and influence as the agent of seigniorage, as has already been mentioned
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says
Patrick says
So why do we have any fucking national debt at all?
Just so the Fed can get interest payments from taxpayers?
i don’t understand how this shit works too. they sell bonds, pay interest on bonds…
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
It's deliberately complicated. The US government sells bonds to get cash, and the Fed buys those bonds with newly printed dollars.
So the Fed starts with nothing, but gets interest payments from all of us on money it created out of thin air.
The Fed supposedly reimburses the gubment for any interest it collects on the Treasuries it holds. It's real profits stem from the power and influence as the agent of seigniorage, as has already been mentioned
126
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Jun 19, 9:56pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Jun 19, 9:56pm
stereotomy says
Only for the bonds on the Fed's balance sheet. Interest on bonds held by everyone else Congress has to pay up.
The Fed supposedly reimburses the gubment for any interest it collects on the Treasuries it holds. It's real profits stem from the power and influence as the agent of seigniorage, as has already been mentioned
Only for the bonds on the Fed's balance sheet. Interest on bonds held by everyone else Congress has to pay up.
127
AD
2024 Jun 21, 10:56pm
AD
2024 Jun 21, 10:56pm
Patrick says
Yeah Patrick, this year the federal debt service payments will be greater than the Pentagon budget. I think this is the first time that has ever occurred for the US federal government :-/
I hope this trend reverses some as deficits and debt decrease steadily with decreasing US Treasury interest rates and an improving economy.
.
Yeah Patrick, this year the federal debt service payments will be greater than the Pentagon budget. I think this is the first time that has ever occurred for the US federal government :-/
I hope this trend reverses some as deficits and debt decrease steadily with decreasing US Treasury interest rates and an improving economy.
.
128
AD
2024 Jun 21, 11:00pm
AD
2024 Jun 21, 11:00pm
stereotomy says
The Fed has been losing some money now. At least it is reducing its Treasuries and mortgage back securities holdings.
" (Reuters) - The Federal Reserve said on Tuesday that it officially saw a net negative income of $114.3 billion in 2023, a record loss tied to expenses related to managing the U.S. central bank's short-term interest rate target. The loss last year follows $58.8 billion in net income in 2022, the Fed said.Mar 26, 2024 "
The Fed supposedly reimburses the gubment for any interest it collects on the Treasuries it holds. It's real profits stem from the power and influence as the agent of seigniorage, as has already been mentioned
The Fed has been losing some money now. At least it is reducing its Treasuries and mortgage back securities holdings.
" (Reuters) - The Federal Reserve said on Tuesday that it officially saw a net negative income of $114.3 billion in 2023, a record loss tied to expenses related to managing the U.S. central bank's short-term interest rate target. The loss last year follows $58.8 billion in net income in 2022, the Fed said.Mar 26, 2024 "
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I know that a lot of people say so that the Fed can collect interest from taxpayers, and that may be so, but why would the government even agree to that?
It seems that every country on earth has national debt, but how can this be? It always costs more to borrow and pay interest than to save and simply pay for something.
Is every country on earth stupid and/or irresponsible? Is it just that they have more demand for services than they can afford? If that's so, then it's still stupid because they have to pay it off eventually anyway. Or do they just keep rolling over the debt forever, growing ever larger? Eventually their debts will be infinite and the interest will be unpayable.