patrick.net

AmericanKulak says

Read Selco

Selco will look like a holiday compared to what's coming. This isn't one city, or even one country, it's going to be every country, city, town, neighborhood, and home that is incapable of being completely self-reliant for at least 3-6 months.

If you're still on step 1, survival prep, you better fucking put it into high gear. At this point you should be almost done, and well into step 2, planning for the rebuild.

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good website based on Rich Wicks comments: https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-gold-price-and-u-s-debt-1970-2023/

speaking of precious metals,

1) SPDR Gold Trust is still at 2011 levels :-/

2) and worse as far as possible market manipulation, the iShares Silver Trust is about 40% of 2011 levels :-(

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The idea of surviving 6 months sitting on a bag of beans and a box of gold bricks with a shotgun in a suburban house amid total societal collapse is a fun excercuse in mental masturbation, but it's unrealistic unless you are a member of a group able to take and control ground the size if small town or at least a subdivision. One guy with an AR-15 and his wife with a shotgun will hold their shack with beans and gold bricks piled inside against a determined squad-sized band of attackers for maybe 2-3 hours. Maybe. There will be no rebuilding with gold bricks after that. So if you are not a part of a group, you are not really as prepared as you think you are.

RWSGFY says

The idea of surviving 6 months sitting on a bag of beans and a box of gold bricks with a shotgun in a suburban house amid total societal collapse is a fun excercuse in mental masturbation,

I agree as I would rather be in a rural area with neighbors I trust and who would form an armed posse to protect the neighborhood.

And I would want multiple water sources within that neighborhood as well as food sources like chickens and 5 years worth of chicken feed (corn, grain, etc.).

If you aquafarm Tilapia, the fish can survive just on algae. And the Tilpia waste can be used as fertilizer for hydroponic vegetables and fruits.

The neighborhood would have to create its own self-sustained society. I agree as shiny things like precious metals will have no value in such societal long term chaotic conditions.

It would take at least 10 years for the USA to stabilize and turn itself around if the modernized world was to reach that level of chaos, and beyond Selco in the old Yugoslavia during the 1990s.

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I watched an interview of a guy stuck in a house in a large city during the Bosnia Hertz war for a year. He claimed that he only survived because he had 15 armed people in his house, would go out in small teams at night and barter for shit.

His best barter items were refillable butane lighters and he had a large tank of gas. He'd tell them if they needed a refill to meet him somewhere and he'd return the next day with a refill.

Guns and bullets being the other thing that was tradable for life saving items.

Every time they went out at night they'd be careful to take a route that they hadn't taken before as much as possible.

I'm not sure why people think gold and silver are only used during cannibal anarchy. They've served a money since the beginning of time. When countries thrived it was always due to real money(gold, silver) based economy. I can tell you who will be looking to acquire more gold and silver during a collapse, people who are prepared, will easily survive the collapse, and are already thinking about what happens when we rebuild. That's when I plan to use mine. After the worst of it, when everything will be dirt cheap, and most people won't have any means of purchase.

NuttBoxer says

I can tell you who will be looking to acquire more gold and silver during a collapse, people who are prepared, will easily survive the collapse, and are already thinking about what happens when we rebuild.

When society collapses, people's mindset will be so desperate that the only fungible currency will be survival-related goods like canned food, medicine, etc. as well as service bartering which depend on valuable skills like first aid, carpentry, mechanical repair, chicken farming, etc.

When society starts to recover, then expect a new currency by a new stable government which will repeat of the paper or fiat currency cycle.

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@ad is correct, I found that guy I mentioned above. Not the in person video that I saw years ago but essentially the same story: https://cats2010.com/interview-with-a-bosnian-survivalist/

I forgot about cheap whiskey also being a good barter item!

Here are some links related to if society collapses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wesley_Rawles#Tools_For_Survival

The communities that stick together will survive together. They will ensure water and food supply as well as basic needs like shelter and medical care, and will provide their own police security force.

It won't be precious metals that would be valued, but anything tied to food, water, shelter, security and medicine. Basic and advanced skills will be valued from fixing shelters to medical doctor services.

Bartering may be a major factor in the local economy (i.e., exchange of goods and services).

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just_passing_through says

I forgot about cheap whiskey also being a good barter item!

Why, because no one ever has any left?

ad says

When society starts to recover, then expect a new currency by a new stable government which will repeat of the paper or fiat currency cycle.

Absolutely not. You don't seem to understand that everything happening with the fiat system for the last 50 years is completely unprecedented in world history. Either they keep it going long enough to lock us into perpetual slavery using CBDC, or everything collapses, never to be rebuilt, at least not for many generations to come. You see, those of us prepared don't want the old systems back, and will not support it. And since we'll be the only ones with any purchasing power, they'll stay dead. For a good example on a smaller scale read about what happened in the United States after the Revolution.

Again, gold and silver are the only real money that has ever existed, and the only thing that will be accepted once we start rebuilding. People won't trade whisky and cigarettes forever. Don't just plan to survive, plan to thrive.

NuttBoxer says

Again, gold and silver are the only real money that has ever existed

Gold was around $850 in 1980 and is around $2300

Its only gone up about 2% a year from 1980 to present day

Granted gold was skyrocketing back in 1980 due to significant inflation

But I see your point as far as the currency system reverting to gold and silver after society recovers from a major disaster or catastrophe

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AD says

It won't be precious metals that would be valued, but anything tied to food, water, shelter, security and medicine. Basic and advanced skills will be valued from fixing shelters to medical doctor services.

Always. And the first currency that comes back is the tally stick, or representations of sacks of grains. That's what currency poor places do when money is in short supply.

Any fool dumb enough to flash silver rounds at the Black Market is going to be followed home by the Black Market guards, who will be from the Mafia.

I love the idea of silver currency, but all wages must be paid in the metal, no paper representation. If banks and governments want to trade paper with each other, they're free to do so, but the metal itself must be widely held.

I've posted on this forum before excerpts of metal paper discounted rates being published in US newspapers. "Oh, that'a a silver certificate from first Bank of Ohio? We only pay 85% of face."

A Glibertarian might say "Well just don't bank at First Bank of Ohio".

Problem being, that's where his employer banks, not where he banks.

HeadSet says

Why, because no one ever has any left?

That Bosnian guy mentioned it as a hot item in a SHTF cannibal anarchy situation.

AD says

silver dime buys gallon of gas

Two silver dimes in California.

Onvacation says

Two silver dimes in California.

Unlike Florida and most of the USA, it takes 2 silver quarters (not 1 silver quarter) to buy a gallon of gasoline In California.

and then you have this: https://www.ocregister.com/2024/07/05/californias-gas-tax-just-went-up-so-has-the-bickering-2/

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AD says

Unlike Florida and most of the USA, it takes 2 silver quarters (not 1 silver quarter) to buy a gallon of gasoline In California.

You meant 2 silver dimes, right?

I believe the current silver value in 90% US silver coins is approximately 20 times face value. So two silver dimes would buy one $4 gallon of gas.

Onvacation says

AD says

Unlike Florida and most of the USA, it takes 2 silver quarters (not 1 silver quarter) to buy a gallon of gasoline In California.

You meant 2 silver dimes, right?

I believe the current silver value in 90% US silver coins is approximately 20 times face value. So two silver dimes would buy one $4 gallon of gas.

Its about $5 a gallon in San Fran Bay Area.

Yeah a silver dime is worth about $2.25 and a silver quarter is worth about $6.

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Onvacation says

I believe the current silver value in 90% US silver coins is approximately 20 times face value. So two silver dimes would buy one $4 gallon of gas.

Pretty close at the moment, but the market has moved even a bit higher.

What a silver coin is worth:
First, the current price of a troy ounce of silver. I use this https://www.kitco.com/price/precious-metals . Currently a ozt of silver is $31.16.
Then, for dimes, quarters, and halves: ozt price x coin fraction x 0.72 .
For silver dollars, there is actually more silver! Instead of 0.72, use 0.77 .

A dime is worth $31.16 x 0.1 x 0.72 = $2.24
A quarter is worth $31.16 x 0.25 x 0.72 = $5.61
A half dollar is worth $31.16 x 0.5 x 0.72 = $11.22
A silver dollar is worth $31.16 x 1 x 0.77 = $23.99

SoTex says

That Bosnian guy mentioned it as a hot item in a SHTF cannibal anarchy situation.

I guess silver and gold coins are fungible, just like canned food and drinkable water, if society gets that bad, as in Shit Hits The Fan.

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inflation adjusted price of ounce of silver since February 1915

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