patrick.net

Would you really want to buy a car built under Commie Worldwide dominion, where everything fails and every employee is put there as a social experiment?
To boot, they have never been more expensive for what you get.

Off the list, but I'd go Toyota 4 Runner. Might have to go used for comparable pricing to the other 3, but it's a solid car. That checks all the boxes for rough road and towing by a long shot. Only thing is I don't think the screens are that big. I really don't find a use for them. I get the suction cup mount for my phone.

On my Armada the phone is just above the steering wheel and I can operate it with my left hand without taking my hand off the wheel. Not suggesting an Armada as it's not fun driving in the city and not gas friendly, but I don't do that. More the suction suggestion.

I'm not fond of those infotainment screens. I'm a paranoid driver and can't stand it when I get a rental car and you have to run everything through it. You're looking at the center and down of the car. Your eyes are 100% off the road when operating it. I've got deer running all over, especially this time of year with harvesting. Even the occasional loose cow. Oh and other drivers are just shitty. I don't need to be looking at that screen.

If you're used to a window crank, not sure why you'd want a big infotainment screen. Not a dig, just saying those two things don't add up. I prefer cars with the knobs for heat/cool/zones. Once you memorize the car you don't have to take your eyes off the road. And get the phone off your left side closer to your face.

The only experience I've had is with the Subaru, not that specific model. I'm too big for them (tall). I definitely cannot sit in the back seat of any of the ones I've been in. Or the drivers seat doesn't slide far enough back. That's true for all Asian made cars though. I'm no giant at 6'3", but the cars are designed for 5'7" to 5'10" people at tallest. No leg room usually in the back (for me).

All Subarus are made in Indiana.

Between Japanese and Korean I would always buy the Japanese make car.

Among Japanese cars, I would find a Toyota which can go over the dirt roads. I think Rav 4 is the model for this.

I had a 1998 Toyota Tacoma which I sold in 2020; it's still running well at 300,000 miles. The guy I sold it to beats it, and it's not giving in to his abuse.

Agree on Jap vs Ko. Still don't trust Korean brands despite all the (paid) chatter about them "coming a long way". They still have many engine issues, they have a rep of being easy to steal, meaning even if the latter is not true anymore the idiots will still try and damage shitload of stuff in the process.

Some Subarus are assembled here, but Crosstrek it appears is still assembled in Japan. The wilderness models have some additional wheel clearance and look nice with their girding.



https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comments/x3ktus/are_japanese_made_subies_more_reliable_than/

I used to be a fleet manager for a big car rental company and can tell you that there aren't any better built cars than Japanese. Toyota is the best. Koreans have come a long way, but they still make a lot of mistakes and put out cars with failing parts. Ford sucks. Most American cars don't last long.

Ceffer says

Some Subarus are assembled here, but Crosstrek it appears is still assembled in Japan. The wilderness models have some additional wheel clearance and look nice with their girding.



https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comments/x3ktus/are_japanese_made_subies_more_reliable_than/

This is weird: I can swear I saw Crosstrek parked on display in front of their indiana factory among the other models they make there.

Eric Holder says

This is weird: I can swear I saw Crosstrek parked on display in front of their indiana factory among the other models they make there.

All you have to do is ask and get a model that is still manufactured and assembled in Japan. My 2004 WRX was manufactured in Japan and was solid as a rock for the 16 years I had it. Never had a squeak or rattle. It was examined and tested when I traded it in and still registered pretty mint. The only thing it ever had was a gasket for the turbo at 60K, and the fan lost a setting, but everything else in the car was original (except tires of course) and it was in great operating condition.

WookieMan says

On my Armada the phone is just above the steering wheel and I can operate it with my left hand without taking my hand off the wheel. Not suggesting an Armada as it's not fun driving in the city and not gas friendly, but I don't do that. More the suction suggestion.

Nissans hurt my ass after about an hour. It's funny, but true. Pathfinder, Rogue, haven't driven an Armada longer than a test drive, but something about the seats on both the Rogue and the Pathfinder - recent models - numb my ass. Only cars it happens in. I have no problem with anything else about them.

Might just be me, I drive in a very rigid position with little slouching or lean back.

Looking more and more like the Forester. I like the small HUD display on the 2024 Wilderness, also the sunroof and the back vents for the kiddos and a little extra cargo space. Crosstrek is nice, made in Japan, but I dunno if their 2025 Wilderness trim is coming soon enough since my lease is ending in a couple of months.

I almost don't want to buy a new vehicle at this point because Toyota or Honda and Subaru signed an agreement for some trade secret sharing; word is some hybrid Subarus are going to come online that will enhance the MPG and the low end power yet moar. Maybe I'll do a 36-month lease.

Prince Harry post herewith:
I'm presently struggling with a vehicle decision in Baja California Sur.
I'm torn between Suzuki Jimny, Nissan Frontier Prox 4x4, and Toyota Hilux diesel 4x4.
The best and toughest is Toyota Hilux, but it only comes with a diesel engine, it's about $40,000.
The Nissan is in the middle, at $37,000 USD.
The Jimny is cool and is just $25,000 USD.
The basic standard/stick transmission Hilux is awesome and just about $26,000 USD.
95% of the time I won't use 4x4 drive, but I have gotten out of a jam with a Jeep by putting it into 4 wheel drive.
Off the subject, the Nissan salesgirl was the most perfect example of womanhood I have ever seen and I've seen a few.
She was like a smaller version of Rita Hayworth or Sofia Vergara's younger sister (if she had one).

clambo says

The Nissan is in the middle, at $37,000 USD.

I've had great luck with Nissan. That would be my vote. Probably couldn't go wrong with the Toyota either. I have no clue what a Jimny is and looked it up. I wouldn't touch that at that price new. I know American regulations are tougher, but it's not a road worthy car here in the states.

Also no clue about Diesel down there. Hence my choice is the Nissan. I haven't been to that part of MX but from what I've heard it's pretty rugged and rural outside of the coastal towns.

I'll eventually get to that area at some point.

Huh, this 2024 (last model year avail) Forester Wilderness is Japan Made.


Also interesting factoid about US Towing Regs. Europe typically rates 15% higher, Australia typically rates at 30% higher than the USA. Make of that what you will. Same exact Japan-made vehicles compared.

Ex: https://www.carsguide.com.au/subaru/forester/towing-capacity/2024

The US towed max is 1500lb on most Forester Trims except the Wilderness. Almost half as much

Yeah, these Jeeps are fake Macho. Just went through to see what's under $15k, just to drive something for a couple of years until the car market crashes. Badass looking 2017 Jeep Patriot High Alt tows... 1000lb and has a 150hp engine. Apparently being designed for high altitude doesn't translate into any low-end torque, or the suspension is real weak.

I can't get over the crack smoking on used vehicles. 3-7 year old models with well over 60k miles up to 120k miles, aren't 50% of the current models. Often the lower trims are only a few thousand more with no miles and the full warranty length. It's batshit crazy.

WTF would I pay $25k at 7% for a 2019 with 70k miles when I can get the highest trims on a 24/25 for well under $40k at 4%?

Well, dealers can enjoy the lot rot.

AmericanKulak says

I can't get over the crack smoking on used vehicles. 3-7 year old models with well over 60k miles up to 120k miles, aren't 50% of the current models. Often the lower trims are only a few thousand more with no miles and the full warranty length. It's batshit crazy.

WTF would I pay $25k at 7% for a 2019 with 70k miles when I can get the highest trims on a 24/25 for well under $40k at 4%?

Well, dealers can enjoy the lot rot.

Agreed. We got a brand new Tiguan for 35k and so far so good, it's been a great car for the first years. Used car prices are way too high atm

AmericanKulak says

Yeah, these Jeeps are fake Macho.

Weird, my 91 wrangler engine was 190HP. Jeeps break. Over and over and over. I sold that jeep 23 years ago but still have an awesome set of tools.

I barely / slowly rolled up over a curb in front of my parents house. At a nice angle where the right front tire went up first. The "sport" bar that attached to the wind shield broke. Or rather, the torque screws holding them together did.

I went down to Chrysler, Jeep, Eagle to get replacements and they didn't have any, wouldn't order any, refused to sell me any and gave me no advice other than: fuck off (basically)

Fortunately the little biotech I worked at had a machine shop and my buddy made me some that were better and never broke again. Just everything else on the jeep broke.

Jimny is a real off-road capable truck, just small. For one or two people who don't need to haul much gear around it's perfect.

Part of the reason why some used car models see unusually high prices is due to a few very popular and well-known reliable engines were recently replaced by new unreliable engines. For example, the Toyota 5.7 liter naturally aspirited engines being replaced by the 3.4 liter turbo engine, 3.5 liter naturally aspirated engine being replaced by 2.4 liter turbo engine, Honda 2.4 liter naturally aspirited engine being replaced by 1.5 liter turbo engine, etc.. Usually manufacturers have to go through a couple generations of turbo engines before reliability stabilizes; "first" generation turbo engines from every manufacturer seem to be unreliable (coming from an owner of Saab's a couple decades ago), I think because if the immediate previous generation engine from the same manufacturer is not turbo, the engineers who had experience with designing turbo engines and drawing up maintenance schedules for turbo engines have retired, and the new guys have to learn life under high temperature and high pressure all over again. Saab took 2 generations of unreliable turbo engines over 2 decades to arrive at reliable engines by the 2000's; BMW took 2 generations of unreliable turbo engines (N54, N55) over a decade to arrive at B58 (very reliable). It may take Toyota and Honda nearly as long (Honda is already half a decade into it and seems to be dropping the 1.5 liter turbo in the near future, replacing it with serial hybrids like in the latest Civic Hybrid; Toyota is 2+ years into turbo engines right now so plagued with problems). I'm not familiar with the market under 240hp (the upper limit of naturally aspirited 4 cylinder engines), for the current market of vehicles delivering over 240hp, I'd stick with Honda/Acura 3.5 liter or BMW B58 (3 liter turbo engines with piston stroke longer than cylinder bore diameter so you can have low-end torque for daily driving, in production since 2016/17). For domestic American, ironically the 3.6 liter PentStar naturally aspirited from Chrysler/Stellantis is more reliable than the latest crop of domestic and Japanese turbo engines in trucks, simply because Stellantis is not going over to turbo's as quickly as the others.

My reservations regarding current Subarus are two fold: 1. flat boxer engines have intrinsic design problems: soaking the engine head in potentially acidic coolant when the engine is not running, upper half circle of the cylinder bore not being lubricated as well as the bottom half circle of the cylinder bore when the engine is running; if you have a low cost engine rebuilder in the back pocket, inevitable engine repairs between 50k-100k miles may not cost much in parts but mostly labor intensive for replacing mechanical parts in the engine. 2. the CVT being the only available automatic transmission in current Subarus. Traditional planetary-gear and fluid torque converter automatics, especially the 8-speed from ZF (8HP series) can take load much better and are much more reliable. When going off road (or driving on vertically undulating roads), the vehicle is taking heavy load: its own weight (which is why electric vehicles suck when doing that, as batteries don't have the energy density to deal with lifting the vehicle's own weight over obstacles for long; how long do you think the chain-driven CVT's can keep doing that literal heavy lifting?).

Among Jeep vehicles, the ones based on Fiat cars are jokes. However, Wrangler and Gladiator are solid vehicles in recent years, especially with the 3.6 liter PentStar engines (the 2 liter turbo only started selling recently) and the ZF 8speed planetary-gear + torque-converter automatic . . . a combination that Stellantis is stopping selling for 2025 model year! Perhaps the management is trying to kill sales so the Jeep division can be sold to Lamborghini to remake LM002!

I'd get the Maverick. Hyundai's are too problematic, and the Subaru has a CVT.

Having written that, when you test drive them, which one did you like the best?

AmericanKulak says

My near vision is going and I need at least a 10-inch screen.

That one might really cost you. You might have to move to a higher trim level to get it.

Reality says

My reservations regarding current Subarus are two fold: 1. flat boxer engines have intrinsic design problems: soaking the engine head in potentially acidic coolant when the engine is not running

My mechanic buddy ribbed me when I talked about buying a Sub, "let me know if you buy it, I'll go ahead and order a head gasket"

My Subaru WRX turbo wagon was my historically most reliable and care free of my cars. Yes, the turbo gasket had to be replaced at 60K, but all in all, over 120K, it was not that huge an expense. It was still in excellent condition when I traded it in after over 16 years of ownership. All parts except that gasket, batteries, filters and tires were original and still worked except for one stop on the car fan. The electric windows never had a problem, and it was pretty quiet when the windows were closed. It also was solid and never had an inherent squeak or chassis rattle.

That's a sample of one from an owner. However, I also like my Forester a lot. No turbo, regular gas, it's nearly ideal for what I want these days. It has a lot of little perks, dimming mirrors at night etc. It has a nonvolatile computer memory so if you disconnect the battery it keeps its settings, unlike my wife's old Volvo or her Honda.

We have a Subaru Outback Touring XT. 2 years old, zero issues. The turbo has zip. I actually like the adaptive cruise control for long road trips. The 11.6 inch infotainment screen is massive and I appreciate the Apple Car play interface. My wife likes the high beam assist function. Overall, pretty good bang for the buck.

I've got an Outback while my wife has a Forester. Mine is one of the last years you could get the flat 6. It has the CVT though.

Supposedly Subaru is just warranteeing the CVTs for 10yr/100K. If it breaks before then you get a new CVT - otherwise it's probably $8K to replace. The dealers aren't even performing the 30K maintenance that's mentioned in the service and owner's manuals.

The only decent, long-term reliable CVTs are found on Honda and Toyota vehicles - they've been working with these for 30 years as they're needed for hybrid drivetrains. Everyone else uses this other supplier who has far less money and experience with these transmissions.

I love the flat 6 - 250/250 hp/torque, has a timing chain which never needs to be changed, and runs on dino 5w30.

The Outback tends to waddle in turns, so I recommend a beefier rear swaybar to tighten things up. My wife's 2008 Forester handled perfectly - nice and well-balanced. I didn't have to mod anything.

Reality says

Honda 2.4 liter naturally aspirited engine being replaced by 1.5 liter turbo engine, etc.. Usually manufacturers have to go through a couple generations of turbo engines before reliability stabilizes

We got the 2021 CRV which has the 1.5 liter turbo engine, and get about 30.5 miles per gallon in city driving. We don't have a lot of traffic lights turning red where we go in the city based on traffic engineering here and our selection of roads.

Honda states the 1.5 liter turbo has been around since 2001.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/release-40b876fa88ce36bf41449f6e441f9b95-honda-15-liter-turbo-engine

.

Modelo still reigns after dethroning Bud Light
Modelo Especial remains the best-selling beer in the U.S. and its sales are up 12% so far in 2024, compared to a year ago, according to Bump Williams Consulting. The Shelton, Connecticut firm services the alcoholic beverage industry and uses NIQ data tracking retail sales at supermarkets, convenience and select liquor stores.

You know you want the Lobo edition of the Maverick.
The Lobo sport truck comes with the turbo four-cylinder and standard all-wheel drive, but drops the eight-speed in favor of a seven-speed automatic with paddle shifters. Ford has given the Lobo a lowered suspension, upgraded brakes, cool 19-inch rally-inspired wheels, and a special Lobo driving mode that encourages the rear end to drift when exiting a corner.

I don't know, Subaru's scream gay to me. Male or female. Just get a real car.

Was out in Montana in the winter with a buddy and I felt completely unsafe in his car. I don't know the model of Subaru. He thought it was fine. I was drinking and sent him onto a road that should have been easy to handle. One of the few times I feared for my life. No cell signal and a shitty car. He even admitted he was scared.

It's no mans land in that spot so we keep going back there now. Not in the winter though. My other buddy has a 4x4 truck so we usually ride around in that in the winter. So many yuppie migrants are going to MT and don't understand winter and rugged terrain. A Subaru ain't gonna cut it out there.

Honda states the 1.5 liter turbo has been around since 2001.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/release-40b876fa88ce36bf41449f6e441f9b95-honda-15-liter-turbo-engine

What's stated in the link is that 1.5L turbo is part of the Honda L engine series; the series started in 2001, not the turbo variety of engines. I had to look up on this (as I have never shopped in this category of engines myself), according to Wikipedia, what was introduced in 2001 at the debut of L series engines were naturally aspirited engines displacing 1.0L to 1.2L using dual-spark (two spark plugs per cylinder) no VTEC. Turbo engines in the L-series are only available on the VTEC variety, and TurboVTEC 1.5L was introduced in 2016.

Most of the eCVT systems used in Toyota hybrids and Honda hybrids are actually not belt-driven but Planetary Gear systems with two input gears (therefore achieving continuous input/output gear ratio instead of a few fixed gear ratio; the mechanics is rather complicated, and there are a few good youtube videos explaining how this works). The problem with most non-hybrid CVT transmissions is the fact that they are metal chain/belt driven systems. Similar to motorcycles, engine timing and even high spin-speed clothes washers, gear-driven power transmission are far more reliable and longer lasting than chain/belt driven alternatives because chains/belts eventually get stretched especially in high load applications (e.g. high torque initial starts, raising the vehicle's own weight over obstacles due to going up hill or over broken terrain especially when vehicle speed is slow so no help from inertia to overcome obstacles, and etc.)

I think this topic is being overthought. Buy a car you like. Maintain it and you'll be fine. The mechanics of it don't matter. A repair is trivial really. If you don't have the money, buy a used car and learn to wrench on it. Or have a good mechanic that you know and trust. There are cheap ones out there.

Murphy's Law dictates that car breakdowns usually take place when one can least afford it. So the solution is avoiding money trouble risks and buying reliable cars. I had a tenant who had a turbo V8 BMW (M550i ??), making far more power than my B58 BMW daily driver. He was having a great time modding his car to get more power out of it (reaching over 800hp), then suddenly due to a heated dispute with his girlfriend and the girl reporting him to the police, he lost his job and the car also started having drivability problems. Eventually it sat in the backyard of the rental property for over a year before the bank sent tow truck to repo it. Beautiful car and I'm sure a lot of fun driving it, but what a waste.

WookieMan says

I don't know, Subaru's scream gay to me. Male or female. Just get a real car.

Lesbian to you, sir. We who drive Subaru are honorary lesbians, but without the purple and green hair requirement.

Makes sense. Lesbian cars will blow a gasket on an unpredictable schedule.

Every time I drive my Subaru, my beard pulls in instead of growing out and my breasts get sensitive. However, I get an insatiable urge for clam dip.

zzyzzx says

The generation to which the blue one belongs predate the head gasket problems.