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Collecting from FDIC


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2007 Mar 26, 11:42pm   23,319 views  194 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (60)   💰tip   ignore  

FDIC logo

If enough mortgage debt doesn't get repaid, many banks may go under. I've been getting out of the stock market and into CD's, but now I'm starting to think there is risk there too. One of my CD's is from IndyMac, which has already taken a hit from the subprime mess.

IndyMac is FDIC insured, but how hard is it to collect from FDIC? Given that it's a government agency, I'm sure it's a real pain.

Then there is the more serious risk that FDIC itself won't be able to make payments if enough banks go under. But there's no need to be paranoid about that, right?

Patrick

#housing

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35   diwakarc   2007 Mar 27, 3:49am  

The market may also get crowded by Random Walkers. So, watch out.

36   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 3:52am  

The market may also get crowded by Random Walkers.

True random walkers will gladly accept that their under-performance is an event of chance even though they deserve higher returns.

They are harmless. :)

37   Jimbo   2007 Mar 27, 3:54am  

You guys will love this story. There are just so many things worth making fun of here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/brn/070326/21330.html?.v=1&.pf=loans

38   ScottJ   2007 Mar 27, 3:56am  

So,

Rather than asking where our money should be parked, wouldn't it be wise to investigate the businesses that typically profit during economic downturns? In this case, wouldn't foreclosure companies profit? How about investing in alcohol and tobacco companies? Don't people drink a lot when they're depressed? I'm the dumbest-est-est investor around, but I'm trying to get better at it. I wonder if Anheuser-Busch increased profits during the dot-com bust and the recession in the early 90s?

As if I could ever give investment advice.

39   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 3:57am  

Heck, if I had a voodoo loan I would be confused. Do you know how many "moving parts" they have? :)

40   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 4:03am  

A very interesting point in Shiller’s Irrational Exuberrence (2nd edition) is that the post-dotcom stock market never really did correct in any sense “fully” (i.e. return to valuations based on anything resembling the fundamentals). P/E ratios are still well out of whack.

Perhaps the stock market has yet to fully correct. What if we are in the middle of a huge double top?

41   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 4:12am  

@Jimbo,

Nice find! According to that survey, the two most popular "plans" for 66% of option-ARM FBs is to refinance to a fixed (ha!), or "not have" the loan when it resets (i.e., sell for nice fat stacks --double-ha!). The other 34% don't have a plan, not even a delusional one.

Yeah, this is going to end well...

42   Jimbo   2007 Mar 27, 4:12am  

Stretch002,

My "next down payment" is invested in short term Muni bonds and a high yield CA muni fund, OPCAX. The post-tax return is a bit higher than a CD. A lot of the regulars here think that OPCAX is too risky, but I think that is nutty. If you are really convinced that the FDIC is going to fail you should "invest" is a cache of high quality firearms.

You can get Yugoslavian AK-47 knock offs for $350/each:

http://www.sksman.com/acces/rifles1.php

I am sure used Chinese rifles would be even cheaper. They are sure to hold their value in any economic situation.

43   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 4:14am  

Person,

I'm good friends w/ a lot of the folks at PowerShares so I won't comment further than to say, you could've done worse! :) Bruce Bond "defected from Nuveen and moved ops. to Wheaton, IL so now everyone gets to "reverse commute".

There's actually a distinction that should be made here. They have believed from inception that "enhanced indices" are the way to go. So rather than just throw your hands in the air and buy the whole index they're in a constant state of re-evaluation. It's a better way to go. ETF format, daily liquidity, intelligent stock selection. It's so crazy, it just might work!

44   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 4:17am  

@Surfer-X,

There's wine, there's wine, and then there is Kool-Aid.

45   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 4:18am  

You can get Yugoslavian AK-47 knock offs for $350/each:

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regagunfaqs.htm#1

46   Jimbo   2007 Mar 27, 4:20am  

You can get Yugoslavian AK-47 knock offs for $350/each:

Not investment advice, legal advice, or any other kind of advice ;-)

47   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 4:22am  

I don't think there's a single rifle on that page that is still legal in the P.R.K. ("K" is for "Kalifornia").

48   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 4:24am  

Jimbo,

Put me down for two (2) "Taliban Specials"!

49   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 4:26am  

HARM, I remember California once declared the Walther P22 (a 22 cal pea shooter) an assault weapon because it had a threaded barrel.

Perhaps soon enough only black-powder muzzle-loaders will be legal in PRK.

50   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 4:27am  

Don't all you Kalifornians out there worry though. Even while she was busy disarming you, Senator Boxer managed to get a concealed gun permit and provide her own private security force with plenty of banned automatic weapons.

51   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 4:29am  

"What's holding you back from buying a house right now"

40% said they simply did not have enough money.

Well that certainly hasn't stopped any soon to be moguls over the last 4 years!

13% said, nothing they plan to buy.

The balance were waiting for credit scores to improve or had NO INTENTION of buying! So out of the 1,000 + surveyed by bankrate.com (the "where is the love survey") only about 130 plan to strap a board to their @$$ and take the plunge! Dark times indeed.

52   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 4:30am  

According to this page there are only 10 CCW permits in SF county.

http://www.packing.org/state/california/

53   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 4:31am  

@Peter P,

Why, how ignorant of you. Naturally, if you own a gun with a threaded barrel, this will only encourage you to attach a silencer and try to assassinate our Dear Leaders, who are protecting us from all those nasty "assault" weapons.

54   surfer-x   2007 Mar 27, 4:34am  

I'm sorry, but how could you "not know" what kind of mortgage you have?

55   surfer-x   2007 Mar 27, 4:34am  

El HARM-O, how goes it?

Peter P, still throwin up gang signs at work?

56   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 4:36am  

A buddy just returned from Lake County, OR (Fort Rock area) and said after a day of rattlesnake hunting they walked into to saloon and were served as long as they kept their pistols in their holsters. They didn't see a problem.

57   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 4:36am  

Me bad. I forget that people will take advantage of that feature and harm mice and squirrels silently.

58   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 4:44am  

@Mr. X, Randy H & Peter P,

So, do we have a date for the next NCAL blog party? I'd like to be there.

59   surfer-x   2007 Mar 27, 4:46am  

HARM etal. I look forward to meeting the general counsel of HARM-X Industries LLC GmbH

60   FormerAptBroker   2007 Mar 27, 4:58am  

Last year Berkshire Hathaway had a market cap of about $130 Billion with over $35 Billion (more than 25%) in cash. I’ve got about 30% of my net worth in cash today and like Buffett I’m always looking for places to invest it where I get a good safe return.

I’ve been remodeling kitchens and bathrooms as tenants move out, but I’m happy with a lot of cash since I feel that the risk of loss due to inflation is less than the risk of loss from real estate dropping in value, stocks dropping in value or bonds dropping in value…

61   FormerAptBroker   2007 Mar 27, 5:07am  

Peter P Says:

> You can get Yugoslavian AK-47
> knock offs for $350/each:

You can’t go wrong investing in quality firearms (that does not include most guns made in Eastern Europe)…

Most of the guns I’ve had since I was a kid have tripled in value and I could convert all of them in to cash by the end of the day…

62   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 5:10am  

I’m happy with a lot of cash since I feel that the risk of loss due to inflation is less than the risk of loss from real estate dropping in value, stocks dropping in value or bonds dropping in value…

FAB,

Any regular would agree with you on RE, but what makes you think that (non-RE related) stocks are necessarily primed for a big drop? I would say there's a reasonable chance of a finance/MBS/consumer-led plunge larger than what we've already seen, but are most (non-RE) stocks really that overvalued in general?

As far as Treasuries go, I don't see how you can lose here. U.S. debt is fully backed by Uncle Sam, so unless we lose the ability to print money, I can't see how that could happen. Corporate debt is of course a completely different story...

63   DaBoss   2007 Mar 27, 5:12am  

"Don’t all you Kalifornians out there worry though. Even while she was busy disarming you, Senator Boxer managed to get a concealed gun permit and provide her own private security force with plenty of banned automatic weapons."

Hey wait a minute. Boxer didnt disarm anyone. You can go to anyone of
the shooting ranges or gun clubs in the Bay Area and see for yourself.

As for Boxer hereself lets drill into the East Coast Left Wing bio, Boxer is a NY Liberal all the way... She calls her self Californian but she is far from it.

"Barbara Levy was born into a Jewish family with a Polish-born mother in Brooklyn, New York. She attended public schools, and graduated from Wingate High School in 1958. She also attended Camp Kinder Ring in Hopewell Junction, New York. Levy graduated from Brooklyn College in 1962 with a degree in Economics. She was a member of the Delta Phi Epsilon sorority, in the Phi chapter. Later the same year she married Stewart Boxer"

64   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 5:18am  

Space_Acer,

I think most of those club members actually keep their firearms at the club? You were kidding, right?

65   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 5:22am  

Person,

Actually... no. Besides a margin loan isn't something that necessarily requires repayment. Most don't, or at least until they sell some of their leveraged holdings to get their equity back to 100%. It's strictly an arrangement between you and the broker. Btw, what's your broker loan rate?

66   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 5:26am  

Hey wait a minute. Boxer didnt disarm anyone. You can go to anyone of the shooting ranges or gun clubs in the Bay Area and see for yourself.

Oh, please. So the fact that are still a few gun types left that haven't *yet* been banned in the PRK, this means everything's cool. And the fact BB has her own concealed permit and private army, while arbitrarily outlawing what I can carry is perfectly ok, because, y'know, she really needs it...

Exactly how does one define a "conspicuous" pistol grip? And how does the existence of a thumb-hole turn an ordinary rifle into an "assault weapon"? Does any feature that increases the ability of the shooter to aim accurately turn that gun into an "assualt weapon"?

At the rate we're going, all we'll all be left with very soon are Peter P's black-powder muzzle-loaders.

67   HARM   2007 Mar 27, 5:27am  

@Space_Acer,

If you were being sarcastic, my bad. ;-)

68   SFWoman   2007 Mar 27, 5:33am  

Hmm, the foreign presses are all abuzz that the US has plans to attack Iran on April 6th. What will that do to the market and the price of oil? It seems to me that even hints of rumours about a potential attack like that could be used for profiteering in today's volatile markets.

69   MtViewRenter   2007 Mar 27, 5:34am  

Person,

The brokerage won't let your equity tank that far. You'll get a "margin call". When your equity gets below a certain percentage, they will automatically liquidate holdings in your account to pay off the margin loan.

70   MtViewRenter   2007 Mar 27, 5:40am  

I don't know. That's pretty rare. I guess they can still sell your stocks, then send some collectors after you.

71   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 5:46am  

Person,

Good questions. There really isn't a connect between FICO, TransUnion, Experian and the brokerage industry. We assume you are who you say you are. Obviously if you can't cover ONE margin call both the broker and yourself are going to look pretty silly. I don't think the discounters care.

However if you do get a "house call" (under 35% equity in most cases) you will incur a 3X sell out if not covered by settlement. Meaning if the call is for $1,000 the broker (as per your margin agreement) can sell out $3,000 worth of stock to cover the call. If you go into "Fed Call" (under 25% equity) they can sell out FOUR TIMES the amount of the call!

Issues trading below $10 are typically only given partial credit toward equity percentages and stocks below $5 are considered "non-marginal" securities. This is what killed a lot of people, when SUNW goes below 5 and is non-marginable many went into a "negative equity" situation where they were completely sold out, the account had NO value and the investor actually had to send in even more $'s. I'd just as soon not see you there.

BLR (broker loan rate) is usually Prime + 2 pts. up to 25K then it goes incrementally down to about Prime + 1/4 pt. on anything north of a mil. So if you're going to leverage your account, it has to make sense. Lean on something solid with an awesome dividend to off-set (as much as possible) your BLR and gravitate toward short term plays. Don't be afraid to use Stop Loss Orders and close out a position over the weekend.

If you stiff a broker/dealer the will submit your name and SS# to McDonald Reporting and make ever getting a margin account again difficult if not impossible.

Not Margin Advice

72   Randy H   2007 Mar 27, 5:48am  

SFWoman

The key word is "rumo[u]r". Trading on gossip can be very hazardous. That the precise future date of a combat military action has somehow gotten into the foreign press is an incredible claim. I'd guess either it's not true at all or it is a diversion/misinformation. Perhaps it could be a form of brinkmanship diplomacy too. I put nothing past the guys running the machine right now.

73   Peter P   2007 Mar 27, 5:54am  

Exactly how does one define a “conspicuous” pistol grip? And how does the existence of a thumb-hole turn an ordinary rifle into an “assault weapon”? Does any feature that increases the ability of the shooter to aim accurately turn that gun into an “assualt weapon”?

Exactly. And what is wrong with hi-cap magazines?

74   DinOR   2007 Mar 27, 5:54am  

MVR,

Hey man! How you been?

After the tech wreck "Risk Management" depts. became more pro-active in dealing with M/C's. Early on the discounters just sent out an e-mail to the acct. holder saying "you need to send in X $'s by ___." Well that didn't work and after they got tired of getting burned they somewhat automated the sys.

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