patrick.net

Here are my serious guesses:

Hillary wins in 08. She pursues the current policies even more aggressively, both abroad and domestically. But that is in 09.

08 will be a lot like 07 except more so. Real estate will continue to tank and realtors will continue to desert the profession in big numbers. It will become common knowledge that houses aren't really worth as much as people thought, so all the money hurled out of helicopters doesn't help anyone.

Foreclosures continue to rise, even in the fortress, and we start to see more and more infomercials about how to get very rich using pre-foreclosures.

The Internet 2.0 bubble finally deflates although some companies continue to do well. The job market starts to hurt and this, combined with the loss of jobs related to housing, really hurts the economy.

Bush seriously starts considering if he can declare emergency and stay the president for much longer.

Gas hits $4 a gallon.

What else?

Sriram those sounds like good predictions to me.

Ugh! Hillary! Yuuuuck!

ESR, I really hope that doesn't come true. But is definitely conceivable that the race next year will be between Hillary on one side and Guiliani or Huckabee on the other.

Then, no one can save this country.

Guys I just took the AOL straw poll for President. Although it is totally unscientific, the survey seems to have some controls to prevent multiple votes like using the passkey to submit. It seems like they are trying to take it seriously. It is worth noting that for the Republicans, Ron Paul leads with 27%, Giuliani is in second a full 9 points behind with 18%. Then, no statistical difference between Huckabee, Romney, and Mccain who follow at 17, 16, and 15%. This is based so far on 58,000 responders who picked from the Republican side.

Bap33 Says:

> I’ll bet you $1,000 USD, CASH, that Comrad Clinton is no
> where close to winning anything.

I would not bet that Clinton can’s win “anything”… She will win again in New York and would even beat Boxer if she moved to California (It is kind of funny that Clinton’s brother has been accused of “actually” beating Boxers daughter:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12202007/news/nationalnews/hills_brother_a_deadbeat_514395.htm I couldn’t find the domestic violence story, but above is a recent story that is almost better).

Here in the Bay Area since almost everyone is a Democrat (people talk about family members who vote GOP like they were child molesters) people that live around here (where Gavin is a “right winger”) think Hillary can win a national election. I have yet to meet anyone who has spent a lot of time in a “red state” that thinks she (or a black guy) has any chance of becoming our next president…

Then Malcolm Says:

> Guys I just took the AOL straw poll for President. Although it is
> totally unscientific, the survey seems to have some controls to
> prevent multiple votes like using the passkey to submit. It seems
> like they are trying to take it seriously. It is worth noting that for
> the Republicans, Ron Paul leads with 27%...

Remember internet polls will always favor the candidates that tech savvy people like. Most people in red states are just now talking about “the all new aol dial up service” and will vote for whoever their Pastor or Union leader tells them to vote for (it will be the mainstream candidate supported by the party who gives money to the Pastor and Union Leader

Hillary's popularity right now is the difference between voting for someone in principle and actually voting for them in practice.

My serious predictions :

1. At least one major financial institution - here or abroad - that is too big to fail will *almost* fail.

2. The spring market in BA will shock a lot of people. Including bears - as it will not tank as much as they hoped. Many people will try to purchase thinking it's a good "deal" but will have a very hard time getting a loan. Resulting in very long closing times, and houses falling out of escrows. So end of summer will look lot worse than spring.

3. CPI will not be able to hide inflation and people will realize how trapped the Fed is. Panic will set in stock market and in general it will be a good year for short sellers.

4. CNBC will keep trying to convince people that "consumer is not dead". Of course consumers will have to spend on basic needs. But apart from that they won't spend much on anything more.

5. Since solutions to the bubble aftermath won't show any positive result, the real game will start playing in DC and in election campaigns - finger pointing. Candidates will be asked about their "solutions" to the bust in debates.

6. May happen in 2008, but more likely in 2009 - at least one local CA government will go bankrupt.

Overall, 2008 will be far more pessimistic than 2007. To the extent that it will become common, fashionable to espouse such thoughts. Such people will be viewed as pragmatic and not gloom and doomers.

FormerAptBroker Says:
December 23rd, 2007 at 10:22 pm
"Remember internet polls will always favor the candidates that tech savvy people like. Most people in red states are just now talking about “the all new aol dial up service” and will vote for whoever their Pastor or Union leader tells them to vote for (it will be the mainstream candidate supported by the party who gives money to the Pastor and Union Leader"

You are right, but we must observe that his rank is twice as high as regular national polls, and the internet is the new mainstream. It has totally disrupted the traditional mainstream networks for news, and could make the difference. Something exciting is happening, you can almost see it gaining momentum.

I don't even want to think about the Presidential general election. This super-early primary year will give the nominees about 10 months to "screw up", so I'd think all bets are off. If Congress really wants "election reform", they need to pass a law restricting primary elections to no earlier than June or July, thereby removing the perceived "need" to raise gobs of cash to blow on advertising.

IIUC due to Prop 13 Sacramento makes transfer payments to local governments to make up for shortfalls in revenues due to the property tax cap. With the budget crisis this year, I predict that Arnold will come out for a repeal of Prop 13 as a solution. Maybe a legislative constitutional amendment for the fall election with prop tax caps only for owner-occupied houses and not for rentals or commercial property. My prediction is that the CA state budget crisis will swell and become the real bad news for 2008.

An Optomistic Outlook for American Youth

It would behoove the responsible institutions of this society, if there are any left, to keep the younger generations abreast of the matters that will most accutely effect their future. While their young minds are busy at scoring points or grades and their bodies busy enjoying the ample hormones God gave them, it might be prudent for them to know that their future prospects for economic security and well being are rather dismal at best. It goes without saying that the American masses, aptly referred as consumers, have been successfully vaccinated against critical thought for a generation(what the pundits refer to as doom and gloom) and have trouble dealing with the slighttist blemish on their skin or or spect of dirt on their car. While such social programming keeps the masses from interfering with the depradations of the ruling elite, all seems to work if those elites at least know what they are doing. Which bring us to the contemporary reality of America where the current crop of political, economic and cultural leaders have shown themselves to be remarkably incompetent in managing the affairs of state. It might come to pass that within a single graduating class, this crop of ivy league hacks might just do what all the terrorists in the world could only of dreamed of doing, that is destroying the power and wealth of this country. With the currency collapsing and on its way to a historical footnote, two wars with no end in sight costing us trillions and the complete and utter indebtedness of the country as a whole, our old cold-war rival, Russia, may have the last laugh on this one.

It is worth noting that in an interview with Mikal Gorbachev on the causes of the collaspe of the USSR, he stated simply that no one believed any longer in the lies from the central government, from the media and from the institutions of soviet society. The common refrain from the people was that 'we can not go on like this'. The disconnect between reality and what came out of the mouths of leaders were too great. It is not hard to envision the same thing here as ever more citizens become disillusioned with the 'free market utopia' trumpeted from every channel, deeply skeptical of the corporate spin of the mainstream media and completely alienated from the political process because of its corruption and the one-party (the money party) stranglehold on it. And the only thing that keeps it all together is the fact that the dollar is the world's reserve currency, a fact that may be soon to change and with devastating consequences. As a former Treasury Secretary recently noted, that if that happens, the country would have to close all 700+ of its military bases throughout the world and and beg airfare from the airlines to bring all the troops home.

As for the future of our youth, they should busy themselves studying how young people coped with the devastating changes in the former USSR. With the economy in shambles and the government bankrupt, there were not too many options for work, such as construction, office or cafe work. Schools, hospitals, universities, etc were essentially runnng on empty with little opportunity to offer. Manufacturing and services came to a standstill. Coal miners, loggers and the like found themselves waiting months for meager paychecks. Whatever savings people had, inflation destroyed. The ruble, (as the dollar seems to be headed) became worthless. The communist elites quickly turned capitalist and promptly stole as much wealth as possible until Putin put an end to it. The military and police all but collapsed with many soldiers and police going into business for themselves in the protection rackets or selling their weapons to the criminal and terror gangs (if not joing them), in order to survive. Migration was only available to small, well connected segment of the population.

As for the average young woman, there was ample work in the booming internet porn industry as well as all kinds of options for prostitution. The incredibly boring and foreign-born middle-aged businessman was your primary client. Arranged marriage services boomed as well where any schmuck in the world with some money and an internet connection could marry an incredibly beautiful Russian woman, even if the marriages were typically short lived and expensive due to the importation of the bride's family, children, boyfriend and/or husband. For women whose bodies lack the appeal of those found in glitzy magazine ads, there were not too many options available other than working for nickles, going hungry, selling everything your own, and hoping your parents have room in their house and some food. It did not matter whether you had a college degree or not although if you spoke english you had a fighting chance at some translation work helping Western carpet baggers and the like. Boyfriends and/or husbands were fairly useless as well as they were typically without work and overwhelmed with alchohol and depression. And, the few monments of sexual pleasure one might enjoy with a friend or mate in this meager landscape could have devastating consequences as orphanages filled up to the brim with abandoned babies as infertile middle-class couples from America piled in to pay $10-20K for ones (another thing Putin recently put an end to).

Men had more adventurous income producing opportunities. Those good with knives and guns and little compuction at killing things, primarily humans, had plenty of work in bootlegging, blackmarketing, highway banditry, extortion, kidnapping, drug running and murder. Police don't work if there is not any money to pay them so crime was a boom industry. Those with college degrees, family connections and the same work ethic as the criminals found work with foreign companies seeking to loot the former empire. For those guys who lack that degree of moral fiber there was petty crime, the occasional drudge work as well as plenty of cheap heroin and alcohol. Many just went to work at their old jobs with little prospect of pay but nothing better to do, living off the wages from sex work of their wives and girlfriends. If you had advanced degrees and training in the computing sciences, work overseas was a distant possibility. For American, though, many of these options will not be available as most of the world can do whatever it is we do, and probably better.

Our attempts at bankruptng Russia through the years will have served to bankrupt us as well. Although all the pain and suffering the Russian people have gone through for the last twenty years has finally began to wane as Putin put an end to the society's distingration and the country is emerging in far better shape than its cold war rival. Putin paid off the national debt and with the one of largest oil reserves and the largest natural gas reserves in the world (an ironic twist of fate), Russia's 21st century prospects are looking pretty good. A highly skilled workforce educated in the sciences and technologies stands to breathe new life into the Russian state. A nice stockpile of nuclear arms will keep America at bay as well as it recovers it strenght and reasserts itself in the world. Russia has even intimated interest in its currency being the new reserve. An event that would transform, expotentially, Russia power and relegate the US to that of bankrupt, second-rate has been.

The future prospects for this country are not terribly bright thanks to its ruling class. This class is an utter catastrophe of an unimaginable degree. A human Katrina. Our credibility as a great nation has been permantly damaged by the current regime and it will take more than a public relations firm to sraighten the mess out. The economic tsusami enveloping the globe as a results of Wall Street's criminal schnanigans stands to make '29 look mild. While the average American slouches, half-asleep, in their lazy boy waiting for the next round of commericals promising to deliver them to consumer paradise, the country spins out of control at an ever accerating pace. It seems that no one has any clue how all keep running and there in lies the danger. Like the subprime derivitives, the system has become so murky and convoluted that no one know how it works or even why. Input and outputs do not correlate. In '29, the average American was one generation from the farm and that is where many went to wait out the depression. Even though no one had two nickles to rub together, food could be grown, game hunted and a lot of cards be played. Not so today. As a modern, urban industrial/technological society with its highly dependent and atomized citizens, the experience will be more aligned with the collasped soviet state.

Those who pooh-pooh such a senario here in the United States simply are ignorant of the geopolitical forces driving world change and the political, economic and social crisis that lies just beneath the surface of this 'culture of values and lifestyles'. Our minds have been infected with too many Hollywood happy endings to be able to contemplate the consequences of 27 years of the Reagan Revolution. A nation 10's of trillions of dollars in debt, an economy based largely on speculation and fraud, a bloated and over-extended military, and a corrupt ruling elite holding itself beyond reproach and accountability, openly and rapaciously looting the wealth of Americans and foreigners alike, coupled with an increasingly autocratic and authoritarian social order and police state as well as a population with an increasingly self-absorbed, narrow-minded and apathetic but happy-nonetheless-outlook (thanks to pharmacuetical industry) – such trends do not indicate a dynamic and forward thinking society and are obvious harbingers of a procipitous decline. What passes for discourse today in the mainstream makes old Leave It to Beaver reruns look like the Advant Guard.

The demise of the dollar will shatter the illusion of America as a beacon of freedom and democracy, of opportunity and possibility and will reveal our society to the world to be a farce of tragic proportions. Our pantheon of superheros busted on doping, embezzlement or fraud charges of one sort or another offers a fitting analogy to the decay within. The public's apathy are the nails in the coffin accompanied by an Irish wake sponsered by some money grubbing businessman anxious to extract the last little profit from a collasping social order. The blame lies clearly with those that rule but it is to be expected that power corrupts but I'd like to reserve the hottest place in hell to those that control the mainstream media and the institutions of higher education. It is because of them that America's youth will be the last to know. A tragedy of epic proportions since it is they who will be forced to foot the bill.

moo_divine,

I agree with you 100% that this is the wolrd we will face soon if we don't get our act together. In my previous posts, I have written similar things to what you have posted. I have a wild, vivid and depressing imagination for the future. I am 27 years old and I am scared. This fear has caused me to do things I thought I would not ever do. I have been stockpileing bullets and rifles in the last year with money I was saving. I still have a large supply of saved cash for a downpayment on a house purchase, but it is less than this time last year. Those $200 Yugo SKS's are cheap. I have also checked and rechecked gear I used 10 years ago at Philmont for future use. Those ceramic water filters may one day be my only source of clean water. I look at what I have done in complete disbelief, but I don't know what else to do. I AM SCARED! My wife and I have even put off starting a family due to my concerns. Is my fear irrational? Maybe, but I am more bearish than bullish for the future of America.

Russia having huge reserves of oil will help them a lot in the coming years. I fear that America may resign itself to control the western hemisphere and pull out from the rest of the World. Canada should be nervous as hell becuase of their large oil resources. I have no doubts that the USA could/would invade our neibors to the north for their oil.

Presidential election is funny because the swing voters decide the fate of the nation. 95% of voters will vote on party lines no matter who get the party nomination.

You really have to be an idiot to be undecided between say Gore or Bush. (even though they are both pro big business and use big lies to fleece america either the WOT or Global Warming)

anyway my point is the fate of the world is decided by 5% of voters who are idiots. every time. there should be an IQ test to vote but wait that racist nevermind.

FAB said:
It is kind of funny that Clinton’s brother has been accused of “actually” beating Boxers daughter

Billhilly seem to have quite a pedigree between them. It may be useful to note that the deadbeat p.o.s. in that story is a Rodham, and not a Clinton.

hellokitty said:
there should be an IQ test to vote but wait that racist nevermind

Why is that racist? An IQ test to qualify to vote sounds like something that would disenfranchise a large number of white-trash too.

Unless you were talking about a low-pass filter... :-)

DennisN Says:

"...Surfer-X turns out to be a Boomer."
_____

Ha, ha!

Then he retires in luxury after writing a multimillion-dollar, NY Times best seller: "The Man Who Fell from Grace with the Boomers: A Cali Techno-Surfer Rediscovers Zep, Woodstock and His Hidden Roots-Rock-Reggae Past."

;-)

The very concept of IQ is considered racist by many lefties. Supposedly the way its measured only makes whites/asians score well. Some people say 'music smarts' and 'rapping' should be tested etc.

Anyway the predictions for the future have a way of being horribly wrong.

In the year 2000 we went from stock market boom of all booms/internet is 'chainging everything' to one year later we had 911 and back to the old standby of 'war-boom-bust' but in not in that order, this time is 'boom-war-bust'. Even Henry Blogdgett never predicted this current world we are in.

hellokitty said:

>There should be an IQ test to vote but wait that
> racist nevermind

Then SP Says:

> Why is that racist? An IQ test to qualify to vote
> sounds like something that would disenfranchise
> a large number of white-trash too.

It is not "racist" but when we just used IQ tests to get kids in to college there was a disparity and minorities claimed it was racist. White-trash don’t have any “leaders” (unless you count Kevin Federline and Kid Rock) who will get mad if they can’t pass a test to vote since white-trash don’t vote anyway…

P.S. I would say that most (over 50%) of the college educated white people I know under 40 don’t take the time to vote and almost all (more than 75%) of the people I know under 30 don’t vote (many have never even been registered).

P.P.S. The biggest reason that there will never be an IQ test for voting is that Democrats need the votes of all the poor idiots in the housing projects. This goes on across the country and I personally know someone that worked on a project that got almost every SF housing project resident to vote for Willie Brown and his friends…

Arnold will sign the largest tax increase in California history while Fabin Nuñez stands behind him smiling with a hand on his shoulder. Arnold will praise the Democrats and insist that he doesn't really want to raise taxes but that the people have spoken. Maria will reappear after a protracted unexplained abscense seemingly unharmed claiming she was not being held hostage in a $65 million dollar mansion that pays no property taxes but rather she was visiting the poor in Bakersfield.

I will produce at lest 3 new clever acronyms that will make their way into the popular lexicon.

2008 will be the year the "Dollar Stores" "break the buck."

In 2008 the party that keeps the house will be considered the loser in a divorce.

School breakfast programs will go bilingual due to popular demand. English is added to the application forms.

Paramedics are called to the Patrick.net annual BBQ as several participants and bystanders are hurt when the game of "catching a falling knife" is taken literally. They return shortly after when somebody else jumps off the roof holding the corners of a pillow case screaming "I'm a home valuuuuu...." No one is actually hurt and attendees express surprise at how long it took him to fall.

Damn, I gotta go make some money. more later....

moo-divine --- Um,

What?

OK, the best most optimistic thing for american kids who aren't rich is to GET INTO THE FUCKING MILITARY. Forget college, you'll sweat blood and be lucky to get a degree and there will be no job for you anyway.

Get into the military. Stay there. I don't care if all you do is peel potatoes and blow Reville AM and PM, and gotta carry the goddamn guidon every time you do PT, stay in the fucker. Learn all you can, especially about small unit leadership and basic killing people and breaking things.

Assuming the Empire holds together, you will get decent pay, medical care, and a retirement. Which most of us are not going to get.

Those who can't get in, are too old, etc., you still need to learn stuff, acquire weapons and PRACTICE with the damn things. Keep in training and keep learning.

But basically, there's hardly such thing as a "career" for 80% of us in the US, so why keep lying about it? You will NOT like living your life at the bare survival level and wishing you'd gone into the army/navy/air force/corps.

moo_divine Says:

"Our attempts at bankruptng Russia through the years will have served to bankrupt us as well. Although all the pain and suffering the Russian people have gone through for the last twenty years has finally began to wane as Putin put an end to the society’s distingration and the country is emerging in far better shape than its cold war rival.

Putin paid off the national debt and with the one of largest oil reserves and the largest natural gas reserves in the world (an ironic twist of fate), Russia’s 21st century prospects are looking pretty good. A highly skilled workforce educated in the sciences and technologies stands to breathe new life into the Russian state.

A nice stockpile of nuclear arms will keep America at bay as well as it recovers it strenght and reasserts itself in the world. Russia has even intimated interest in its currency being the new reserve. An event that would transform, expotentially, Russia power and relegate the US to that of bankrupt, second-rate has been.

The future prospects for this country are not terribly bright thanks to its ruling class.
_____

Those paragraphs were a dead giveaway.

While I agree with some of your analysis and interesting gloomy prognosis, up to a point, you showed your true anti-American, Marxist-style class-consciousness-colors.

Perhaps you're the stereotypical type Boomer, Red-Diaper-Doper-Baby that made excuses for totalitarianism and always saw the dawning of a new "Workers' Paradise" in the Soviet Union--if only the US would disarm itself of its nuclear, hegemonic ambitions and let the poor agrian farmers and peaceful leaders like Kruschev, Mao and Father Ho Chi Minh implement another Five Year Plan.

And, since former-head-of-the-brutal-Soviet-KGB Putin is such a great leader in your eyes--and has verifiably, single-handedly looted Russia of $billions, which now sit safely in Swiss banks--and Russia is now a paragon of supreme proletariat productivity and profitability and the emerging new "Workers' Paradise," why don't you put your money where your mouth is and move your America-loathing, Woodstock, hippy *ss over there?

You'd be doing us and them a big favor, and setting the example for world peace and democracy.

The NAR senior economist will release statements “we have hit bottom”, “all real estate is local”, and “it is a great time to buy” several times in 2008.

And those statements will be plastered all over the front page of the San Jose Mercury every time.

Having a mortgage on a principle residence is such a drain anyways. The equity from your down payment is savaged by inflation, and the interest you pay exceeds the principal you owe, and housing prices have really only kept up with real inflation (forget the fraudulent CPI that shows otherwise).

Plus, the debt you owed the banks was money created out of thin air when they made you the loan, it's not like anything of value was lost. A mortgage is just another hidden tax on top of inflation. Interest being charged on fiat money is usury.

Michael Holliday,

I was a bit disappoint with your analysis, or lack there of, of the marxist tendencies revealed in my post. However, your John Birch tendencies are plain for all to see and a bit alarming. For one, there is no monolithic definition of what the term "american' actually means so any claim to patriotism on your part is entirely specious and self-serving. There are many peoples here, many histories, many struggles and your can bet your ass the one I am the least interested in is the one you cherish the most. As for the accurancy of your assements, wrong on all counts. I am far from a boomer. Any marxists worth his/her salt would never ascribe the Soviet Union from Stalin on as a marxist state (at least in practice) but alast, I am not a marxist. Russia's re-emergence as a world power under Putin's leadership is an geopolitical observation, hardly an endorsement of his methods but it is obvious to anyone who follows Russian affairs that the majority of Russians agree that they are better off today then 5 yrs ago and are confident of a brighter future. The exact opposite has happened here and because of the ruling class you love so much. As for Putin's millions, why not point the billions that our own corporate and political elites accumulate....unless you think that it was all "earned" fairly. As for democracy, it is a system of governance - that is a system of control and it was Marx who noted that it is largely the tool of the capitalist class as they have the necessary resources to totally control the political process. The notion that one is anti-american because they're view of the state differs from your own narrow orthodox conceptions is very...Hooverite.

moo_divine Says:

"...(y)our John Birch tendencies are plain for all to see and a bit alarming."

Response: What tendencies are those? To question your fawning adulation of former communist KGB master Putin? What, is he now above reproach. He stole billions, not millions. Wasn't John Birch an Army Captain and the first American soldier to die in China?

"...(t)here is no monolithic definition of what the term “american’ actually means so any claim to patriotism on your part is entirely specious and self-serving."

Response: Let's start with legal, tax-paying citizen, as opposed to, say, an illegal alien grifter. We can start there. How about, umm, born and raised in the United States. How about veteran of the US Army. I'm sure the common man would understand those terms. Then again, any dope-smoking, hippie-*ss Boomer is probably morally equivalent in your eyes.
Give me a definition that we can all live with.

"There are many peoples here, many histories, many struggles and your can bet your ass the one I am the least interested in is the one you cherish the most."

Response: Well the struggle that I care about most is that the honest, hard-working American citizen, regardless of race, color, or economic "position," who plays by the rules and tries to better himself is getting shafted from all angles for trying to make an honest go of it. I think the struggle to get educated, make a decent living and raise a family is a common theme to most Americans. Then again, if you're still bitching about La Raza not getting back portions of Aztlan, or Campesinos in Nicaragua throwing out the Latifundios and building a Cuban-style workers paradise, I'm definitely not down with you're so-called struggle.

"I am far from a boomer."

Response: I was going to proffer your pedigree as one of the "Silent Generation" but I think you're too trite even for that. Gen-X? You can't be a Gen-X'er. A really pretentious Gen-Y'er? I don't know...Maybe a recent, arrogant Pakistani immigrant?

"Any marxists worth his/her salt would never ascribe the Soviet Union from Stalin on as a marxist state (at least in practice) but alast, I am not a marxist."

Response: So you're not a Marxist. Does that mean then, from your statement, that you would ascribe the former Soviet Union under Stalin as a Marxist state? I don't get it. Just like your diatribe against the common Russian citizen, especially portratying the women by and large as prostititutes in one paragraph, then hailing the citizens as the new educated vanguard of a revived Russian economy in the next sentence. Perhaps you're just confused. No, you are confused. Obviously you're versed enough in Marxism to know a true Marxist from a false one.

"Russia’s re-emergence as a world power under Putin’s leadership is an geopolitical observation..."

Response: Because of Russia's massive nuclear arsenal, it never lost its status as a world military power. It has a long, long way to go before it becomes a world-class economic power. And if your hero Putin keeps robbing the state blind, and putting more billions in Swiss bank accounts, her emergence as an economic paragon is surely questionable.

"...Russians agree that they are better off today then 5 yrs ago and are confident of a brighter future."

Response: Then they, like you, should be giving credit to Ronald Regan Pope John Paul II, and the American taxpayer, for their courageous efforts at hastening the fall of the Iron Curtain and the resulting chance at builing a strong economy free of communist statism, elitism, and totalitarian control.

"The exact opposite has happened here and because of the ruling class you love so much."

Response: I destest the Oligarchy and Aristocracy who reign with seeming arrogance and ostensible impunity. I dest their craven liberal supporters in the media, academia and other establishment dens of iniquity.

"As for Putin’s millions, why not point the billions that our own corporate and political elites accumulate..."

Response: Because your answer is stereotypically shallow, and paints our corporations and politicians with quite a broad brush and narrow intellect.
Is there corporate corruption? Hell yes. Is ther political corruption? Hell yes. Do I like it? Hell no!

"As for democracy, it is a system of governance - that is a system of control and it was Marx who noted that it is largely the tool of the capitalist class as they have the necessary resources to totally control the political process."

Response: Well said. Marx couldn't have said it any better. I usually don't quote Marx because so much of his writing is obtuse, pseudo intellectual bullsh*t and is responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people throughout the world.

"The notion that one is anti-american because they’re view of the state differs from your own narrow orthodox conceptions is very…Hooverite."

Response: Likewise, the notion that one is Hooverite because his view of the state differs from your broad unorthodox conceptions is very...doctrinaire-left-wing-Clintonesque-Boomerite.

Michael Holliday said:
[Russia] has a long, long way to go before it becomes a world-class economic power.

Then you, my friend, are very out of touch. Putin's Russia has made some extremely smart strategic geopolitical moves. I remember vaguely that I alluded to this a few months ago on this blog itself. These are clearly not accidental moves - whoever is behind this is undoubtedly very smart and the trajectories of Russia and the United States are unmistakably in contrast to each other.

You seem to be a good sort of guy, but really unwrap yourself from the flag and get a grip on how seriously the American elite has sold your own arse down the river. As an American, you ought to ask what the f*ck our leaders were doing. That is THE patriotic thing to do.

I said: "As an American, you ought to ask what the f*ck our leaders were doing. That is THE patriotic thing to do."

Oh, and I forgot to add - vote Ron Paul.

I thought Putin was simply re-nationalising Russian assets, particularly away from multi-national interests. Not sure about billions being squirreled away in Zurich -- in whose name is the bank account?

SP Says:

"...you, my friend, are very out of touch. Putin’s Russia has made some extremely smart strategic geopolitical moves...You seem to be a good sort of guy, but really unwrap yourself from the flag and get a grip on how seriously the American elite has sold your own arse down the river."
_____

Hey, you guys better pull your heads out and get with the program. Yeah, I'm glad you're a crank Libertarian that runs on emotionally-driven statements.

You say Putin's Russia has made some extremely smart strategic geopolitical moves, the only problem is that you haven't named even one.
_____

Let me slap some fact on the table about your wonderful commie Putin. Please read on:

In an interview with the Guardian, Belkovsky repeated his claims that Putin owns vast holdings in three Russian oil and gas companies, concealed behind a "non-transparent network of offshore trusts".

Putin "effectively" controls 37% of the shares of Surgutneftegaz, an oil exploration company and Russia's third biggest oil producer, worth $20bn, he says. He also owns 4.5% of Gazprom, and "at least 75%" of Gunvor, a mysterious Swiss-based oil trader, founded by Gennady Timchenko, a friend of the president's, Belkovsky alleges.

Asked how much Putin was worth, Belkovsky said: "At least $40bn. Maximum we cannot know. I suspect there are some businesses I know nothing about." He added: "It may be more. It may be much more.

By the way, Merry Christmas!

Peace out!

Asked how much Putin was worth, Belkovsky said: “At least $40bn. Maximum we cannot know. I suspect there are some businesses I know nothing about.” He added: “It may be more. It may be much more.

wow. same as bill gates or warren buffett... the boss of goldman sachs just took home $50 M in bonuses this year...

who's Belkovsky?

Its ironic that Michael Holliday would take at face value reporting from a leftist rag like the Guardian and fails to be honest in the fact that all of Belkovsky's allegations were promptly refuted in following editions fo the paper. As for Belkovsky, the article offers no evidence what so ever, none, zero, zip. Just wild allegations that play into the generally negative image of Putin (autocratic, corrupt, etc) that western power has been cultivating for the last several years. The concerns whom the accusations were directed against promptly denied Putin held any interest in these companies. The fact of the matter is that the whatever the truth is regarding Putin's wealth, it will be very difficult to acertain through the mainstream press reporting which is, for the most part, thoroughly compromised but the western intelligence community (Who Paid the Piper). Questioning the reporting in western press does not endorse Putin's policies or methods as some would immediately assume. Holding power is a complex and often dirty business and when different power complexes are competing for resources, markets, etc (the stuff that fuels power) there are no rules, only outcomes. On the outcomes we can judge the merits of leaders. It would seem if Putin was merely a greedy politician, selling out to the west would have been the path of least resistance as many national leaders routinely do. Obviously he is guided by some other vision for Russia besides suboridinating to the dictats of the US power. Any European will tell you that their economies, their well being is very dependent on Russian resources and therefore, it would be in Europe's and the US' interest to have a weak, pliable Russia. Putin has failed to cooperate in this task and is therefore a threat.

It is hard to fathom someone's obsession with defending our own corrupt ruling elites who outcomes are absymal by throwing around empty cliches at those with whom one disagrees and wrapping himself in the flag.....

moo_divine Says:

"The fact of the matter is that the whatever the truth is regarding Putin’s wealth, it will be very difficult to acertain through the mainstream press reporting which is, for the most part, thoroughly compromised but the western intelligence community (Who Paid the Piper)."
_____

Ha, ha! There you go again. Showing your true Marxist paranoid colors again. Blame it on the evil United States. Dude you don't know how whacked out, Soviet-era Breshnev-defending leftist hack you sound. You're right out of 1976. You haven't grown up. Or perhaps the tides of history just washed over you like a beached Walrus.

If anything, the European press is infiltrated by socialists and left-wingers, as it has been for a very, very long time. Read almost anything by the late, great British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge and he'll name names and dates to go along with your assertions.

Media disinformation is a tool perfected by the Left-wing libs in this country and abroad.

Perhaps dude shut his mouth about Putin's billions because he didn't want to eat a Polonium sandwich and end up with his b*lls glowing florescent nuclear green.

Food for thought.

Glad to see there's still a few retrograde, People's Park, Berkeley, hippy *ss old guard, card-carrying syndicalist socialists like yourself still around.

Yawn...

moo-divine -

Um,

huhhuhhuhhuh Uhhhh....

What?

OK just vote anti-oligarch wherever you are ok?

MIchael Holliday said,

If anything, the European press is infiltrated by socialists and left-wingers, as it has been for a very, very long time. Read almost anything by the late, great British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge and he’ll name names and dates to go along with your assertions.

Whoa, there. What about our own free press back here in the USA? It is chock-full of right-wingers that make Russian propaganda look like child's play. Please notice that there is one essential difference between old Soviet-style propaganda and the kind of propaganda that passes as news around here: In this country, people actually believed the "fair and balanced" reporting against Clinton/Lewinsky in the late 90s, the "fair and balanced" propaganda to prevent election of Al Gore in 2000, and the likewise "fair and balanced" selling of John Kerry down the (Mekong) river in 2004. In the Soviet Union, at least everyone knew what the real story was.

Yeah don't fuck with people who spell it "loose" dammit!

amurrikuh! Heck yeah!!

PermaRenter,

I beg to differ on your comment on mortgage. It is all about timing. Taking on a mortgage is a great deal just when inflation is around the corner and housing price has yet to reflect it - you are paying back with inflated, cheap fiat which looks bigger on the face value, especially if you can lock in a fixed rate. Those who bought in 1997 and refinanced into a fixed rate mortgage in 2003 will be the biggest winners. If you buy at the top when inflation is already very obvious, and get into an ARM, then needless to say, the biggest fool on earth.

There are times that it is completely stupid to take on a mortgage and there are times that it is the smartest thing to do. For most people, mortgage is a compulsory saving mechanism because frankly, most people I see lack financial discipline, and cannot possibly save on their own.

Smart and disciplinary savers (very few) who are also savvy in financial investment can beat the return of buying a home on mortgage over the long term. Unfortunately, most people do not fall into this category. So even mortgage may be a bad deal, it is still infinitely better than their other option - squandering their money away.

Wow. This thread has quickly turned into a huge geo-political sling fest.

I don't know anything about Russia, but I was born and raised abroad, so let me tell you all something.

Americans constantly underestimate and overestimate foreign countries.

There is one school of thought that declares every other country to be a $hithole and corrupt and whatnot and basically brushes off any suggestion that other societies could become successful and wealthy as well. People who subscribe to this also take great joy in locating some obscure news item and convincing themselves that things are horrible over there.

Such people are wrong. There are plenty of smart, capable people all over the world and No, not all of them want to come over to America. And the American economy and society does have many issues.

The other school of thought is one that constantly praises other countries (Russia, China, India, Brazil, whatever) and claim that very soon, their economy will be the leading one in the world and all Americans will be living a Mad Max lifestyle.

Such people are wrong too. The current state of affairs have to continue for a long time before this happens. And don't discount the possibility that people will wake up soon enough and put an end to the current sorry state of affairs, thereby correcting the ship. Ron Paul may not win but it shows there are quite a few people who realize what is going on.

What we all need, is a little perspective.
Such people are wrong.

Subtract the spurious "Such people are wrong." at the end.

I agree largely with moo_divine in terms of overall sentiment, unreconstructed Marxist and Soviet apologist of the 70s tho s/he is ;)