patrick.net

DennisN Says:

"...Surfer-X turns out to be a Boomer."
_____

Ha, ha!

Then he retires in luxury after writing a multimillion-dollar, NY Times best seller: "The Man Who Fell from Grace with the Boomers: A Cali Techno-Surfer Rediscovers Zep, Woodstock and His Hidden Roots-Rock-Reggae Past."

;-)

The very concept of IQ is considered racist by many lefties. Supposedly the way its measured only makes whites/asians score well. Some people say 'music smarts' and 'rapping' should be tested etc.

Anyway the predictions for the future have a way of being horribly wrong.

In the year 2000 we went from stock market boom of all booms/internet is 'chainging everything' to one year later we had 911 and back to the old standby of 'war-boom-bust' but in not in that order, this time is 'boom-war-bust'. Even Henry Blogdgett never predicted this current world we are in.

hellokitty said:

>There should be an IQ test to vote but wait that
> racist nevermind

Then SP Says:

> Why is that racist? An IQ test to qualify to vote
> sounds like something that would disenfranchise
> a large number of white-trash too.

It is not "racist" but when we just used IQ tests to get kids in to college there was a disparity and minorities claimed it was racist. White-trash don’t have any “leaders” (unless you count Kevin Federline and Kid Rock) who will get mad if they can’t pass a test to vote since white-trash don’t vote anyway…

P.S. I would say that most (over 50%) of the college educated white people I know under 40 don’t take the time to vote and almost all (more than 75%) of the people I know under 30 don’t vote (many have never even been registered).

P.P.S. The biggest reason that there will never be an IQ test for voting is that Democrats need the votes of all the poor idiots in the housing projects. This goes on across the country and I personally know someone that worked on a project that got almost every SF housing project resident to vote for Willie Brown and his friends…

Arnold will sign the largest tax increase in California history while Fabin Nuñez stands behind him smiling with a hand on his shoulder. Arnold will praise the Democrats and insist that he doesn't really want to raise taxes but that the people have spoken. Maria will reappear after a protracted unexplained abscense seemingly unharmed claiming she was not being held hostage in a $65 million dollar mansion that pays no property taxes but rather she was visiting the poor in Bakersfield.

I will produce at lest 3 new clever acronyms that will make their way into the popular lexicon.

2008 will be the year the "Dollar Stores" "break the buck."

In 2008 the party that keeps the house will be considered the loser in a divorce.

School breakfast programs will go bilingual due to popular demand. English is added to the application forms.

Paramedics are called to the Patrick.net annual BBQ as several participants and bystanders are hurt when the game of "catching a falling knife" is taken literally. They return shortly after when somebody else jumps off the roof holding the corners of a pillow case screaming "I'm a home valuuuuu...." No one is actually hurt and attendees express surprise at how long it took him to fall.

Damn, I gotta go make some money. more later....

moo-divine --- Um,

What?

OK, the best most optimistic thing for american kids who aren't rich is to GET INTO THE FUCKING MILITARY. Forget college, you'll sweat blood and be lucky to get a degree and there will be no job for you anyway.

Get into the military. Stay there. I don't care if all you do is peel potatoes and blow Reville AM and PM, and gotta carry the goddamn guidon every time you do PT, stay in the fucker. Learn all you can, especially about small unit leadership and basic killing people and breaking things.

Assuming the Empire holds together, you will get decent pay, medical care, and a retirement. Which most of us are not going to get.

Those who can't get in, are too old, etc., you still need to learn stuff, acquire weapons and PRACTICE with the damn things. Keep in training and keep learning.

But basically, there's hardly such thing as a "career" for 80% of us in the US, so why keep lying about it? You will NOT like living your life at the bare survival level and wishing you'd gone into the army/navy/air force/corps.

moo_divine Says:

"Our attempts at bankruptng Russia through the years will have served to bankrupt us as well. Although all the pain and suffering the Russian people have gone through for the last twenty years has finally began to wane as Putin put an end to the society’s distingration and the country is emerging in far better shape than its cold war rival.

Putin paid off the national debt and with the one of largest oil reserves and the largest natural gas reserves in the world (an ironic twist of fate), Russia’s 21st century prospects are looking pretty good. A highly skilled workforce educated in the sciences and technologies stands to breathe new life into the Russian state.

A nice stockpile of nuclear arms will keep America at bay as well as it recovers it strenght and reasserts itself in the world. Russia has even intimated interest in its currency being the new reserve. An event that would transform, expotentially, Russia power and relegate the US to that of bankrupt, second-rate has been.

The future prospects for this country are not terribly bright thanks to its ruling class.
_____

Those paragraphs were a dead giveaway.

While I agree with some of your analysis and interesting gloomy prognosis, up to a point, you showed your true anti-American, Marxist-style class-consciousness-colors.

Perhaps you're the stereotypical type Boomer, Red-Diaper-Doper-Baby that made excuses for totalitarianism and always saw the dawning of a new "Workers' Paradise" in the Soviet Union--if only the US would disarm itself of its nuclear, hegemonic ambitions and let the poor agrian farmers and peaceful leaders like Kruschev, Mao and Father Ho Chi Minh implement another Five Year Plan.

And, since former-head-of-the-brutal-Soviet-KGB Putin is such a great leader in your eyes--and has verifiably, single-handedly looted Russia of $billions, which now sit safely in Swiss banks--and Russia is now a paragon of supreme proletariat productivity and profitability and the emerging new "Workers' Paradise," why don't you put your money where your mouth is and move your America-loathing, Woodstock, hippy *ss over there?

You'd be doing us and them a big favor, and setting the example for world peace and democracy.

The NAR senior economist will release statements “we have hit bottom”, “all real estate is local”, and “it is a great time to buy” several times in 2008.

And those statements will be plastered all over the front page of the San Jose Mercury every time.

Having a mortgage on a principle residence is such a drain anyways. The equity from your down payment is savaged by inflation, and the interest you pay exceeds the principal you owe, and housing prices have really only kept up with real inflation (forget the fraudulent CPI that shows otherwise).

Plus, the debt you owed the banks was money created out of thin air when they made you the loan, it's not like anything of value was lost. A mortgage is just another hidden tax on top of inflation. Interest being charged on fiat money is usury.

Michael Holliday,

I was a bit disappoint with your analysis, or lack there of, of the marxist tendencies revealed in my post. However, your John Birch tendencies are plain for all to see and a bit alarming. For one, there is no monolithic definition of what the term "american' actually means so any claim to patriotism on your part is entirely specious and self-serving. There are many peoples here, many histories, many struggles and your can bet your ass the one I am the least interested in is the one you cherish the most. As for the accurancy of your assements, wrong on all counts. I am far from a boomer. Any marxists worth his/her salt would never ascribe the Soviet Union from Stalin on as a marxist state (at least in practice) but alast, I am not a marxist. Russia's re-emergence as a world power under Putin's leadership is an geopolitical observation, hardly an endorsement of his methods but it is obvious to anyone who follows Russian affairs that the majority of Russians agree that they are better off today then 5 yrs ago and are confident of a brighter future. The exact opposite has happened here and because of the ruling class you love so much. As for Putin's millions, why not point the billions that our own corporate and political elites accumulate....unless you think that it was all "earned" fairly. As for democracy, it is a system of governance - that is a system of control and it was Marx who noted that it is largely the tool of the capitalist class as they have the necessary resources to totally control the political process. The notion that one is anti-american because they're view of the state differs from your own narrow orthodox conceptions is very...Hooverite.

moo_divine Says:

"...(y)our John Birch tendencies are plain for all to see and a bit alarming."

Response: What tendencies are those? To question your fawning adulation of former communist KGB master Putin? What, is he now above reproach. He stole billions, not millions. Wasn't John Birch an Army Captain and the first American soldier to die in China?

"...(t)here is no monolithic definition of what the term “american’ actually means so any claim to patriotism on your part is entirely specious and self-serving."

Response: Let's start with legal, tax-paying citizen, as opposed to, say, an illegal alien grifter. We can start there. How about, umm, born and raised in the United States. How about veteran of the US Army. I'm sure the common man would understand those terms. Then again, any dope-smoking, hippie-*ss Boomer is probably morally equivalent in your eyes.
Give me a definition that we can all live with.

"There are many peoples here, many histories, many struggles and your can bet your ass the one I am the least interested in is the one you cherish the most."

Response: Well the struggle that I care about most is that the honest, hard-working American citizen, regardless of race, color, or economic "position," who plays by the rules and tries to better himself is getting shafted from all angles for trying to make an honest go of it. I think the struggle to get educated, make a decent living and raise a family is a common theme to most Americans. Then again, if you're still bitching about La Raza not getting back portions of Aztlan, or Campesinos in Nicaragua throwing out the Latifundios and building a Cuban-style workers paradise, I'm definitely not down with you're so-called struggle.

"I am far from a boomer."

Response: I was going to proffer your pedigree as one of the "Silent Generation" but I think you're too trite even for that. Gen-X? You can't be a Gen-X'er. A really pretentious Gen-Y'er? I don't know...Maybe a recent, arrogant Pakistani immigrant?

"Any marxists worth his/her salt would never ascribe the Soviet Union from Stalin on as a marxist state (at least in practice) but alast, I am not a marxist."

Response: So you're not a Marxist. Does that mean then, from your statement, that you would ascribe the former Soviet Union under Stalin as a Marxist state? I don't get it. Just like your diatribe against the common Russian citizen, especially portratying the women by and large as prostititutes in one paragraph, then hailing the citizens as the new educated vanguard of a revived Russian economy in the next sentence. Perhaps you're just confused. No, you are confused. Obviously you're versed enough in Marxism to know a true Marxist from a false one.

"Russia’s re-emergence as a world power under Putin’s leadership is an geopolitical observation..."

Response: Because of Russia's massive nuclear arsenal, it never lost its status as a world military power. It has a long, long way to go before it becomes a world-class economic power. And if your hero Putin keeps robbing the state blind, and putting more billions in Swiss bank accounts, her emergence as an economic paragon is surely questionable.

"...Russians agree that they are better off today then 5 yrs ago and are confident of a brighter future."

Response: Then they, like you, should be giving credit to Ronald Regan Pope John Paul II, and the American taxpayer, for their courageous efforts at hastening the fall of the Iron Curtain and the resulting chance at builing a strong economy free of communist statism, elitism, and totalitarian control.

"The exact opposite has happened here and because of the ruling class you love so much."

Response: I destest the Oligarchy and Aristocracy who reign with seeming arrogance and ostensible impunity. I dest their craven liberal supporters in the media, academia and other establishment dens of iniquity.

"As for Putin’s millions, why not point the billions that our own corporate and political elites accumulate..."

Response: Because your answer is stereotypically shallow, and paints our corporations and politicians with quite a broad brush and narrow intellect.
Is there corporate corruption? Hell yes. Is ther political corruption? Hell yes. Do I like it? Hell no!

"As for democracy, it is a system of governance - that is a system of control and it was Marx who noted that it is largely the tool of the capitalist class as they have the necessary resources to totally control the political process."

Response: Well said. Marx couldn't have said it any better. I usually don't quote Marx because so much of his writing is obtuse, pseudo intellectual bullsh*t and is responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people throughout the world.

"The notion that one is anti-american because they’re view of the state differs from your own narrow orthodox conceptions is very…Hooverite."

Response: Likewise, the notion that one is Hooverite because his view of the state differs from your broad unorthodox conceptions is very...doctrinaire-left-wing-Clintonesque-Boomerite.

Michael Holliday said:
[Russia] has a long, long way to go before it becomes a world-class economic power.

Then you, my friend, are very out of touch. Putin's Russia has made some extremely smart strategic geopolitical moves. I remember vaguely that I alluded to this a few months ago on this blog itself. These are clearly not accidental moves - whoever is behind this is undoubtedly very smart and the trajectories of Russia and the United States are unmistakably in contrast to each other.

You seem to be a good sort of guy, but really unwrap yourself from the flag and get a grip on how seriously the American elite has sold your own arse down the river. As an American, you ought to ask what the f*ck our leaders were doing. That is THE patriotic thing to do.

I said: "As an American, you ought to ask what the f*ck our leaders were doing. That is THE patriotic thing to do."

Oh, and I forgot to add - vote Ron Paul.

I thought Putin was simply re-nationalising Russian assets, particularly away from multi-national interests. Not sure about billions being squirreled away in Zurich -- in whose name is the bank account?

SP Says:

"...you, my friend, are very out of touch. Putin’s Russia has made some extremely smart strategic geopolitical moves...You seem to be a good sort of guy, but really unwrap yourself from the flag and get a grip on how seriously the American elite has sold your own arse down the river."
_____

Hey, you guys better pull your heads out and get with the program. Yeah, I'm glad you're a crank Libertarian that runs on emotionally-driven statements.

You say Putin's Russia has made some extremely smart strategic geopolitical moves, the only problem is that you haven't named even one.
_____

Let me slap some fact on the table about your wonderful commie Putin. Please read on:

In an interview with the Guardian, Belkovsky repeated his claims that Putin owns vast holdings in three Russian oil and gas companies, concealed behind a "non-transparent network of offshore trusts".

Putin "effectively" controls 37% of the shares of Surgutneftegaz, an oil exploration company and Russia's third biggest oil producer, worth $20bn, he says. He also owns 4.5% of Gazprom, and "at least 75%" of Gunvor, a mysterious Swiss-based oil trader, founded by Gennady Timchenko, a friend of the president's, Belkovsky alleges.

Asked how much Putin was worth, Belkovsky said: "At least $40bn. Maximum we cannot know. I suspect there are some businesses I know nothing about." He added: "It may be more. It may be much more.

By the way, Merry Christmas!

Peace out!

Asked how much Putin was worth, Belkovsky said: “At least $40bn. Maximum we cannot know. I suspect there are some businesses I know nothing about.” He added: “It may be more. It may be much more.

wow. same as bill gates or warren buffett... the boss of goldman sachs just took home $50 M in bonuses this year...

who's Belkovsky?

Its ironic that Michael Holliday would take at face value reporting from a leftist rag like the Guardian and fails to be honest in the fact that all of Belkovsky's allegations were promptly refuted in following editions fo the paper. As for Belkovsky, the article offers no evidence what so ever, none, zero, zip. Just wild allegations that play into the generally negative image of Putin (autocratic, corrupt, etc) that western power has been cultivating for the last several years. The concerns whom the accusations were directed against promptly denied Putin held any interest in these companies. The fact of the matter is that the whatever the truth is regarding Putin's wealth, it will be very difficult to acertain through the mainstream press reporting which is, for the most part, thoroughly compromised but the western intelligence community (Who Paid the Piper). Questioning the reporting in western press does not endorse Putin's policies or methods as some would immediately assume. Holding power is a complex and often dirty business and when different power complexes are competing for resources, markets, etc (the stuff that fuels power) there are no rules, only outcomes. On the outcomes we can judge the merits of leaders. It would seem if Putin was merely a greedy politician, selling out to the west would have been the path of least resistance as many national leaders routinely do. Obviously he is guided by some other vision for Russia besides suboridinating to the dictats of the US power. Any European will tell you that their economies, their well being is very dependent on Russian resources and therefore, it would be in Europe's and the US' interest to have a weak, pliable Russia. Putin has failed to cooperate in this task and is therefore a threat.

It is hard to fathom someone's obsession with defending our own corrupt ruling elites who outcomes are absymal by throwing around empty cliches at those with whom one disagrees and wrapping himself in the flag.....

moo_divine Says:

"The fact of the matter is that the whatever the truth is regarding Putin’s wealth, it will be very difficult to acertain through the mainstream press reporting which is, for the most part, thoroughly compromised but the western intelligence community (Who Paid the Piper)."
_____

Ha, ha! There you go again. Showing your true Marxist paranoid colors again. Blame it on the evil United States. Dude you don't know how whacked out, Soviet-era Breshnev-defending leftist hack you sound. You're right out of 1976. You haven't grown up. Or perhaps the tides of history just washed over you like a beached Walrus.

If anything, the European press is infiltrated by socialists and left-wingers, as it has been for a very, very long time. Read almost anything by the late, great British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge and he'll name names and dates to go along with your assertions.

Media disinformation is a tool perfected by the Left-wing libs in this country and abroad.

Perhaps dude shut his mouth about Putin's billions because he didn't want to eat a Polonium sandwich and end up with his b*lls glowing florescent nuclear green.

Food for thought.

Glad to see there's still a few retrograde, People's Park, Berkeley, hippy *ss old guard, card-carrying syndicalist socialists like yourself still around.

Yawn...

moo-divine -

Um,

huhhuhhuhhuh Uhhhh....

What?

OK just vote anti-oligarch wherever you are ok?

MIchael Holliday said,

If anything, the European press is infiltrated by socialists and left-wingers, as it has been for a very, very long time. Read almost anything by the late, great British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge and he’ll name names and dates to go along with your assertions.

Whoa, there. What about our own free press back here in the USA? It is chock-full of right-wingers that make Russian propaganda look like child's play. Please notice that there is one essential difference between old Soviet-style propaganda and the kind of propaganda that passes as news around here: In this country, people actually believed the "fair and balanced" reporting against Clinton/Lewinsky in the late 90s, the "fair and balanced" propaganda to prevent election of Al Gore in 2000, and the likewise "fair and balanced" selling of John Kerry down the (Mekong) river in 2004. In the Soviet Union, at least everyone knew what the real story was.

Yeah don't fuck with people who spell it "loose" dammit!

amurrikuh! Heck yeah!!

PermaRenter,

I beg to differ on your comment on mortgage. It is all about timing. Taking on a mortgage is a great deal just when inflation is around the corner and housing price has yet to reflect it - you are paying back with inflated, cheap fiat which looks bigger on the face value, especially if you can lock in a fixed rate. Those who bought in 1997 and refinanced into a fixed rate mortgage in 2003 will be the biggest winners. If you buy at the top when inflation is already very obvious, and get into an ARM, then needless to say, the biggest fool on earth.

There are times that it is completely stupid to take on a mortgage and there are times that it is the smartest thing to do. For most people, mortgage is a compulsory saving mechanism because frankly, most people I see lack financial discipline, and cannot possibly save on their own.

Smart and disciplinary savers (very few) who are also savvy in financial investment can beat the return of buying a home on mortgage over the long term. Unfortunately, most people do not fall into this category. So even mortgage may be a bad deal, it is still infinitely better than their other option - squandering their money away.

Wow. This thread has quickly turned into a huge geo-political sling fest.

I don't know anything about Russia, but I was born and raised abroad, so let me tell you all something.

Americans constantly underestimate and overestimate foreign countries.

There is one school of thought that declares every other country to be a $hithole and corrupt and whatnot and basically brushes off any suggestion that other societies could become successful and wealthy as well. People who subscribe to this also take great joy in locating some obscure news item and convincing themselves that things are horrible over there.

Such people are wrong. There are plenty of smart, capable people all over the world and No, not all of them want to come over to America. And the American economy and society does have many issues.

The other school of thought is one that constantly praises other countries (Russia, China, India, Brazil, whatever) and claim that very soon, their economy will be the leading one in the world and all Americans will be living a Mad Max lifestyle.

Such people are wrong too. The current state of affairs have to continue for a long time before this happens. And don't discount the possibility that people will wake up soon enough and put an end to the current sorry state of affairs, thereby correcting the ship. Ron Paul may not win but it shows there are quite a few people who realize what is going on.

What we all need, is a little perspective.
Such people are wrong.

Subtract the spurious "Such people are wrong." at the end.

I agree largely with moo_divine in terms of overall sentiment, unreconstructed Marxist and Soviet apologist of the 70s tho s/he is ;)

Merry Xmas to all, and to all a good night...

It's actually the am of the 26th here now, Santa obviously starts at the International dateline each year and goes west to get a headstart...

I'm increasingly blogging on the global housing price crash forum (GHPC) Australian discussion, which is obscure and hard to find, at
http:/.globalhousepricecrash.com/index.php?showforum=9
so won't be writing on patrick.net much at all in the new year...

So to everyone in the US, thanks for all the fish, and having a subprime mortgage meltdown that brought the rest of the world unstuck... to be continued...

For the year ahead:
A bank run in the US, probably a credit union or a construction loans-r-us S&L. Lets hope it not one of the majors (WaMu, or even our favorite, Countrywide).
Looking backward:
Can't help but think that 2007 will be seen as the year the West handed off the baton to the East. Or am I just being overly paranoid here? Thinking of our financial institutions selling off large chunks of themselves to foreign investment funds (usually controlled by an arm of sovereign nation/central bank or a bunch oil rich sheiks).

>> Ron Paul may not win but it shows there are quite a few people who realize what is going on.

Vote for Ron Paul

The US's metamorphosis into a giant work-camp progresses...

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071225/D8TOKT9G1.html

Michael Holliday said to moo_divine:
Ha, ha! There you go again. Showing your true Marxist paranoid colors again. Blame it on the evil United States.

Michael, I will try to repeat this again, since you still seem to have misunderstood the point. Nobody is blaming anything on the United States, so please calm down and stop yelling "Red!" at anything that moves.

The point is that over the past few (8, 10 or 15 years), the policy elite (both public policy and corporate policy) in this country have seriously damaged the America's prospects - and someone like yourself who is obviously passionate about this country ought to be directing your attention to the perpetrators of this travesty, instead of slinging cold-war era insults at the messenger.

[Since I am the author of this thread, if enough people feel this conversation is pointless, I will delete the comments (including mine, of course).]

sriramgopalan - according to this theory the British Empire is still standing, along with the Ottoman Empire and the Third Reich. My point being is that there is no stasis in the affairs of state. The fortunes of countries rise and fall in relation to a wide range of variables that govern the processes of complex societies. Distractions (bread and circus') abound that serve to keep the vast majority of people mindlessly preoccupied and unable to cope with the complexities of modern mass society. This same society askes us to acquiesce to authority (surrender our innate freedom) in return for some benefit. The ritual today, for legitimizing this surrender, is voting, which in itself is an article of faith. Control over the state apparatus has taken many forms from divine kingship to palimentary democracry to marxist-leninism to republicanism but essentially they are all share the same objective and utilize an assortment of methods to achieve 'legitimacy' in the eyes of the ruled. Having said that, it is common knowledge that the capacity of an elite to govern is closely tied to its capacity to legitimize its wielding of power. If the public begins to withdrawal their consent (which is a political right granted to us by the founding fathers) in any form then the governing elite is in trouble. American is not immune to such a thing...in fact it is an inevitability. The rise of right and its own brand of american fascism is a response to the reality of american power losing legitimacy internally and externally.

In this country, Americans are routinely (and largely successfully) vaccinated against harboring dissenting thoughts regarding its system of governance or the nature of power that controls it. It sort of manifests inself as an adolesent, if not infantile, inability to cope with criticism (objectivity/inter-subjectivity). The illusion (Bailey) is too fragile to bear the weigh of any objectivity or rationality and so the ad hominem attacks begin. People are very vested emotionally (if not socially and financially) in the system and therefore lack ability to come to terms with its incredibly abusive and coercive realtionship to its citizenry. American's like to droan on about our rights and freedoms, etc but our conceptions of these things are remarkably narrow, if not emptied of meaning by the ideology of the 'free market' and the cult of the Self (Curtis). Power is the state religion and it is through the endlessly 'exalted american ego' (Morgan) that our paradigm of social control work. Minds mired in the conceptions of the Right/Left are largely inhibited from understanding the dichotomy and how it functions....they actually believe the pseudo-ideological drivel. Pay attention to all the bread and circles and the underlying messages are quite clear in both sides of the arguments.

The fate of the country, of human lives for generations to come are not in the hands of Americans where they belong. They are in the hands a few whose capacity to govern in the interest of the nation (a collective concept) are questionable at best. There has been a severe decline in the last thirty years in the standard of living (wealth) for the overwhleming majority of Americans contrasted to a overwhelming increase in the wealth of a very small layer of Americans. These are reletively simple facts chronicled by mainstream instuitions of society from the WSJ on down and across the narrow political spectrum. We are told everyday that everyone in American has a chance to be rich and therefore the system must be oriented to providing that opportunity since that is the highest ideal of the society. Anything that inhibits the accumulation of wealth or redistributes it is evil (Buchanan). This is pure ideology that attempts to mask itself as some sort of organic force. The destruction of the 'middle-class' has been a necessary consequence since all that lazy wealth that was accumulating for the last 40 yrs as a result of a powerfully organized citizenry was not being put to good use. The systemic attack on organized labor and social groupings of all kinds was deliberate. However, when the ponzi-schemes breakdown, the class who talks endlessly of risks and rewards, suddenly becomes quite adverse to suffering the consequences of their own actions and inevitabily looked to get bailed out by the public as is happening now with the mortgage crisis. The transformation of society into a collection of 'selves' competing for advantage over each other, which the is the basic world-view of the neoconservative and their adherents. Such a view was promoted by the economist Buchanan who based his free market theories on Nash's mathematical models from the 50's. Nash, in a 2006 interview, revealed the fact that those models were flawed. That they were models of his own sick mind (A Beautiful Mind) and bore no resemblance to the real world. In fact, all attempts at validating his models failed. We have, nonetheless, inherited a world transformed by a handful of men whose belief in the theories of Buchanan and models of Nash frame the nightmare that is enveloping the nation.

EBGuy Says:
Can’t help but think that 2007 will be seen as the year the West handed off the baton to the East.

It is entirely possible that the "investors" from the east may eventually turn out to be the biggest bag-holders since many of these companies have much more trouble ahead.

The story in January will be counterparty default - which will leave a lot of bankers naked at the exact moment when they are on the wrong end of a trade. Selling out to a foreign investment fund just before collapse could be the three-card monte trick of the century.

SP

I would argue for keeping it alive. I think it is clear that many folks here are sensitive to the underlying social conditions that the mortgage crisis reflects. Amercians of all kinds need to engage in discourse and dialogue about the nature of the problems and the challenges facing us. To keep the discussion narrowly focused on the superfical issues and events of hosuing and mortgages does little to bring us to some meaningful understanding of this issues and events.

moo

>Vote for Ron Paul

I am not allowed to. Unfortunately :(

I did donate though. And it felt good.

moo_divine (BTW, as a Hindu, I agree with your name :-) - just kidding)

I am not suggesting that empires don't rise and fall. Nor am I arguing that the state of the American union is strong. US these days does have the appearance of an empire in decline.

But I tend to disagree with the claims that the end is nigh - a lot of things have to simultaneously go wrong and for a sustained period of time.

This country is still a powerhouse in many respects. Things can still be turned around if (a) we abandon the ridiculous empire-building foreign policy and (b) cut down on size/expenditure of domestic spending.

If you have never lived outside this country, there many intangible advantages that this country has that you might not realize. Simple things like respect for law and order and goodwill towards entrepreneurship, among other things.

My Dad tried to start a small business in India in the early 80s. I saw with my own eyes how hard it was for an honest man in an atmosphere that was (a) corrupt and (b) leery of private businesses. Things have improved but not enough, in my opinion.

I don't want to go into details too much but for other countries (whoever) to do better, that might take a long time too but it is not just an government thing or a productivity thing, it is also a cultural thing. America's uniqueness is often not realized by many Americans.

The Original Bankster Says:
if you really want to understand what Russia is really thinking, see Alexander Dugin.

It is always good to be aware of all viewpoints - however, I would disagree with the characterization of Aleksandr Dugin's opinion as representative of "what Russia is really thinking".

In general, Russian policy under Putin seems very focused on strengthening Russian national influence, and generally seeks to restrict corporate interests from acting in ways that conflict with this goal.

moo_divine, while everyone's views are generally welcome I would request you to not cut-and-paste several screens worth of text. This isn't an academic forum, we are all just a bunch of windbags airing our opinions - so try not to bore everyone to death, mmmkay?

sriramgopalan Says:
This country is still a powerhouse in many respects. Things can still be turned around if (a) we abandon the ridiculous empire-building foreign policy and (b) cut down on size/expenditure of domestic spending.

There also seems to be a corporate stranglehold on policy decisions that needs to be checked-and-balanced. It has spread to pretty much every aspect of public policy - fiscal, monetary, health, food-safety, energy, defense, you-name-it.

Just last weekend, I read an op-ed about how the auto-workers cut a deal - to protect their boomer pensions, in exchange for looking the other way on shutting down local manufacturing and increasing parts outsourcing to China.

If that isn't a "gimme-mine-and-to-hell-with-you" middle-finger in the face of the American working class, I don't know what is.

SP. you are absolutely right. When I meant cut down on domestic spending, I should also mentioned that we need to cut the size of government in general. Less power and money with government means less influence such corporations and lobbyists can have.

"The problem is not abuse of power, it is having the power to abuse" - George Cloud(?)