patrick.net

@Thunderlips

Don’t forget that Auto Workers have been putting up with massive “Give Backs” for 20 years already. The days of making $30/hr + benefit costs are long since over. It’s more like $15/hr or less. When the Big Three whine about the costs of Labor, they’re factoring in all the money they SHOULD have put aside to pay for their retirees.

That is interesting, I always thought they were griping about paying HIGH wages. So, it was the pensions that were running up their costs?

The AMA represents the interests of the AMA.

Ortho's are boning up on the proposal. Gastroenterologists are finding it hard to swallow. Cardiologists didn't have the heart for it. Dermatologists are pretty thick-skinned, can go either way. Dentists are looking down in the mouth at it. Gerontologists think the whole thing's getting old...

thunderlips11 says

I know little about chips used in other products, but in personal and desktop computing the Japanese were never big players.

Did you list DRAM dumbing in the 80s and Semiconductor Manufacturing Equipment bundled and sold below cost to capture market share ? Illegal copy infringement on Intel's CPU Patents (NEC V20, V30)? Do you think they play by the rules?

"Don’t forget that Auto Workers have been putting up with massive “Give Backs” for 20 years already. The days of making $30/hr + benefit costs are long since over. It’s more like $15/hr or less. When the Big Three whine about the costs of Labor, they’re factoring in all the money they SHOULD have put aside to pay for their retirees"

The typical line workers get a lot more in salary and benefits.
Compare that to their Japanese counterpart.

"Represented by the UAW, Detroit's auto workers have long received wages and health care plus a "30-and-out" retirement plan that provides a full pension and health care for retirees and their spouses after three decades of service. Those benefits have made Detroit's labor costs the highest in the auto business: The three makers estimate that unionized workers cost them more than $70 an hour, factoring in benefits and retirement, compared with $40 to $45 for Honda and Toyota. Health-care costs alone increase the price of Detroit-brand vehicles by as much as $1,000 to $1,500 compared with a U.S.-made Toyota, they estimate"

At these wages, it would make any Tech worker blush! Benefits for a SV worker runs around 10-15% so Detroit worker gets about the same as here. The outcome for SV may well be the same one day.

"Too lazy to google but I bet one won’t come across any names that have been household names in the past 10-15 years"

The same you see today... Toshiba, Sony, Hitachi, Fijitsu... I dare say I actually used some of these back in the day.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=137
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=326
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=788
http://laptops.toshiba.com/about/about-Toshiba
"The fact is, there are lots of laptops out there. But if you really want a laptop expert; turn to us―Toshiba. We introduced the first laptop personal computer back in 1985"
NEC (1975)
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=405

Seriously, whose Chips were being put into Sony BetaMax and other electronics equipment back in the 70s ?
It wasnt ours.. they did their own and later made a grab for US electronics markets.

"No doubt they did a lot of outsourcing, but it was all to Taiwan, Malaysia, Mainland China."

No it wasn't "they" who outsourced to the Asian Tiger nations, it was the US manufacturers in SV, in response to JP price cuts.
By 1991-93 the last few plants were mothballed. That is why we still have a glut of commercial buildings since the past 15+ years.

Why can't we all just be silently indifferent?

@Nomo

I agree, there is a backlash from conservatives now that Obama is in office. I am conservative-progressive and have not agreed with all that Congress or the president have done to counter the economic downturn however, I am still open to giving them a chance to return our country to prominence. For example, I agree with Obama's 250B tax cut in the economic stimulus package but I don not agree with the 540B loan he took out to increase government spending. Even if that 540B saved 1 million jobs. This rant is far right, where as most conservatives and liberals generally can meet in the middle.

(1) If a conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one. If a liberal doesn’t like guns, he wants guns outlawed.

How about we just outlaw and regulate the guns that go to criminals.

(3) If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a liberal is homosexual demands legislated respect.

Either way, homosexualality should not be the top priority of any legislation. Our economy, healthcare reform, and spending cuts need to take top priority.

(4) If a person of color is conservative they get harassed by other’s. Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government help and protection.

People of color do not vote conservative because 1/4 of all the liberal Democratic constituency left the party when the Civil Rights act of 1964 passed. This implied that these people did not want equality for persons of color and were against any progressive movements. Neither the Republican/Democratic party has not attempted to pass any legislation that would benefit persons of color since however. Being conservative for most means that things do not need to change and this policy will not work for persons of color whom have been held back for the past 400 years. Conservatives need to start reaching out to people of color and placing less focus on War, big business, and tax breaks for the rich.

(5) If a conservative is down and out, he works to better himself. A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

This is not true, I like many others was liberal and worked my way out of poverty. It just so happens that the liberal party appeals to those who live in lower economic conditions and need someone to assist them in getting out of poverty. If it had not been for my Sallie Mae school loan I would not have been able to obtain my degree. This money is not going to waste for those whom are driven and accomplished. Conservatives need to stop painting poor people as lazy if they want to appeal to this demographic.

(6) If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels. Liberals demand those they don’t like be shut down.

Maybe this is because of the negative, race and hate filled undertone that is taken by conservative pundits when they debate the issues. As a conservative, I myself find it difficult to listen to some of the conservative pundits who speak as if poverty, race and gender discrimination are not a problem for the party.

(7) If a conservative decides he needs health care, he buys it or may look for a job that provides it. A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.

Or he simply goes bankrupt and dies, all because he is too stupid to realize that some social welfare is necessary to keep our citizens from experiencing the same fate as those in 3rd world countries. Yes, these social programs need to be reformed to make them financially solvent but in no form should anyone die because a insurance provider refuses to pay for services.

(8) If a conservative slips and falls in a store, more likely than not, he gets up, laughs and is perhaps embarrassed. If a liberal slips and falls, more likely than not he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in labor and then sues.

This is silly, we live in a highly litigious and capitalistic society in which everyone sues. We should stop attempting to paint conservatives as a bunch of do gooders. We have opportunists as well.

(9) If a conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends have a good laugh. A liberal will not because he’s “offended”.

Well, it was designed to offend liberals and to paint conservatives as picture perfect when in truth a mix of both ideals is what will be necessary to bring our country back to prominence.

Conservatives....If you dont like social welfare you can leave our country and go to Mexico!
Liberals....If you dont think we need to reduce government spending you can leave our country and go to Denmark!
Conservatives...If you dont think we need healthcare, get really sick and see if any insurance companies pick up the cost!
Liberals...if you think we should continue funding broken programs then maybe you need lessons on personal finance!
Conservatives...if you dont think we need Medicare, Welfare try getting old and losing your job then see how you feel!
Liberals...if you think our government is not mismanaging Medicare, Welfare, Social Security find out first if these programs are broke!

"(3) If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a liberal is homosexual demands legislated respect."

Ha! That's a trick question. Everybody knows that if a Conservative doesn't like homosexuality, he goes to the airport bathroom and taps his foot then runs his hand under the adjacent occupied stall.

"(4) If a person of color is conservative they get harassed by other’s. Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government help and protection."

Black people become Conservative republicans because they never get tired of hearing... "except you." from their fellow white right republicans, following comments about the ails of the people of color.

Anyone surprised I have a reply?

"If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a liberal is homosexual demands legislated respect."

Silly, silly. There are no homosexual conservatives. Any anonymous encounters are part of top secret research projects - so secret that the heterosexual spouse hasn't been informed. Conservatives aren't gay, don't have abortions, aren't into kinky sex, and commit no crimes. Be careful, they'll boot you from their club (even though you've been dead for 32 years).

"If a person of color is conservative they get harassed by others. Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government help and protection."

This is frequently a topic of debate at the welfare office - the line for conservatives is much shorter because they obviously need the help, as opposed to their lazy, multiple childbearing counterparts who merely want a hand-out. However, the perception is that one has to sell his soul to stand in the conservative line.

"If a conservative is down and out, he works to better himself. A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him."

Panhandling conservatives hold signs that say, "will work for food." Panhandling liberals hold signs that say, "why lie? I need a beer."

"If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels. Liberals demand those they don’t like be shut down."

You forgot to say that liberals are too stoned to find the remote to change the channel...

"If a conservative decides he needs health care, he buys it or may look for a job that provides it. A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his."

Don't conservatives have a secret handshake that affords them entry into medical provider's offices? Besides, their conservative "shield" ensures they remain healthy, and therefore don't need healthcare. Liberals' lifestyles create the need for healthcare and they should have to sell their blood and organs to pay for their care. Enough is enough! (I'm sure that you are all aware that one of the criteria for organ donation is political/social affiliation, because a conservative who receives a liberal organ will have lesser status - Nomo could attest to this, but he would lose his ability to practice from the conservative physician police).

"If a conservative slips and falls in a store, more likely than not, he gets up, laughs and is perhaps embarrassed. If a liberal slips and falls, more likely than not he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in labor and then sues."

Conservatives, if they slip in the store, loudly berate the staff for placing a hazard in the way and get someone fired over the incident. The liberal who slips in the store hires a conservative lawyer, whose payment hinges on the size of the financial award.

"If a conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends have a good laugh. A liberal will not because he’s “offended”.

You flatter yourself - this post isn't worth forwarding when there are so many cute animal pics and internet hoaxes that are out there.

You're welcome. You're welcome, very much.

I consider a liberal to be an adult with spoiled child syndrome.

elliemae says

“If a conservative is down and out, he works to better himself. A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.”

Panhandling conservatives hold signs that say, “will work for food.” Panhandling liberals hold signs that say, “why lie? I need a beer.”

woah that's heavy...

I always thought that was what separated the Viet Vets from the Bums.

I stand corrected. :)

As TROUT would say...heeelarious!!

If a conservative loses a presidential race he wimpers and moans, If a liberal loses...its the other way around.

Tenouncetrout says

“(3) If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a liberal is homosexual demands legislated respect.”
Ha! That’s a trick question. Everybody knows that if a Conservative doesn’t like homosexuality, he goes to the airport bathroom and taps his foot then runs his hand under the adjacent occupied stall.
“(4) If a person of color is conservative they get harassed by other’s. Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government help and protection.”
Black people become Conservative republicans because they never get tired of hearing… “except you.” from their fellow white right republicans, following comments about the ails of the people of color.

Now that is some funny commentary, black people are united against one cause....discrimination. Conservatives did nothing to vote for our freedoms in 1964. When a black man aligns himself with a known enemy he is then denounced as a traitor and sellout. Could you ever imagine Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan ever siding with a poor black child and/or showing them any empathy regarding the history of their families plight?

Clarence, "the history of their families plight"? I would respectfully suggest you get your head out of your past. And perhaps you should judge Rush Limbaugh and Pat Bucchanan by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin. Just a thought.

Clarence 13X says

Could you ever imagine Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan ever siding with a poor black child and/or showing them any empathy regarding the history of their families plight?

Could you imagine someone like Kanye West stopping to help a dirty stinking white toddler lost with a snotty nose, and a droop in Pampers to his ankles, screaming and whining with the most annoying whine, as if anyone in ear shot owes him a nap and bottle?

Honest Abe says

Clarence, “the history of their families plight”? I would respectfully suggest you get your head out of your past. And perhaps you should judge Rush Limbaugh and Pat Bucchanan by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin. Just a thought.

With your witty remarks you still have not proven that Rush or Pat would do anything for the betterment of the black community or poor people in general. Let me help you. The community needs education, less welfare, to refocus on their families and to finally be assimilated into society. Some have assimilated well, while others have chosen the route of thugism. I judge Rush and Pat on their comments and rhetoric....this is not just a black issue but a poverty issue. Pat and Rush belive the primary weapon against poverty is the trickle down of revenues, however, social programs are needed to get these people in a state of mind where they know the revenues exist.

Having seen my grandparents stripped of their dignity, rights and humanity while enslaved I chose to engage myself in educating myself and my family....other poor people need to do the same.

The enslaved mentality, impoverished thoughts must go!

Tenouncetrout says

Clarence 13X says

Could you ever imagine Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan ever siding with a poor black child and/or showing them any empathy regarding the history of their families plight?

Could you imagine someone like Kanye West stopping to help a dirty stinking white toddler lost with a snotty nose, and a droop in Pampers to his ankles, screaming and whining with the most annoying whine, as if anyone in ear shot owes him a nap and bottle?

Yes I could, his humanity overshadows his stupidity where as Rush believes that money is far more invaluable than human life.

Clarence 13X says

AbHonest Abe says

Clarence, “the history of their families plight”? I would respectfully suggest you get your head out of your past. And perhaps you should judge Rush Limbaugh and Pat Bucchanan by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin. Just a thought.

With you witty remarks you still have not proven that Rush or Pat would do anything for the betterment of the black community. Let me help you. The community needs education, less welfare, and to finally be assimilated into society. Some have assimilated well, while others have chosen the route of thugism. I judge Rush and Pat on their comments and rhetoric.

We should bulldoze everything west of Dixie railroad highway, and south of MLK blvd(every town America) Build neo crap dwellings and mandate, that those neighborhoods all be populated by an equal percentage of all of the race samples of said towns. And end all black exclusive communities in America it is high time they relinquish the most valuable real estate with the easiest access to our down town and inner city greater interests.

I say we pull them out of their fortress projects and lump them into Burbdale with everyone of every color. Then we can all hate each other for being forced to live together, instead of worrying about what everyone thinks of each other from a far Avenue across town.

excellant post TOT

Clarence 13X says

Yes I could, his humanity overshadows his stupidity where as Rush believes that money is far more invaluable than human life.

No he wouldn't he would interrupt him, but he wouldn't have anything to add. Now Will Smith or Sinbad on the other hand...

My point is, there are extremes of every cultures, why pick the most extreme examples to make a point with. Every time you do that it diminishes the tiresome work that many White Civil right activist gave so selflessly, good white men like Obama and Kerry.

We've come along way baby, we've got a half white president, and don't undermine that by tarnishing him as a racist.

Tenouncetrout says

Clarence 13X says

AbHonest Abe says

Clarence, “the history of their families plight”? I would respectfully suggest you get your head out of your past. And perhaps you should judge Rush Limbaugh and Pat Bucchanan by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin. Just a thought.

With you witty remarks you still have not proven that Rush or Pat would do anything for the betterment of the black community. Let me help you. The community needs education, less welfare, and to finally be assimilated into society. Some have assimilated well, while others have chosen the route of thugism. I judge Rush and Pat on their comments and rhetoric.

We should bulldoze everything west of Dixie railroad highway, and south of MLK blvd(every town America) Build neo crap dwellings and mandate, that those neighborhoods all be populated by an equal percentage of all of the race samples of said towns. And end all black exclusive communities in America it is high time they relinquish the most valuable real estate with the easiest access to our down town and inner city greater interests.
I say we pull them out of their fortress projects and lump them into Burbdale with everyone of every color. Then we can all hate each other for being forced to live together, instead of worrying about what everyone thinks of each other from a far Avenue across town.

Except that would be considered communism.

Tenouncetrout says

Clarence 13X says

Yes I could, his humanity overshadows his stupidity where as Rush believes that money is far more invaluable than human life.

No he wouldn’t he would interrupt him, but he wouldn’t have anything to add. Now Will Smith or Sinbad on the other hand…
My point is, there are extremes of every cultures, why pick the most extreme examples to make a point with. Every time you do that it diminishes the tiresome work that many White Civil right activist gave so selflessly, good white men like Obama and Kerry.
We’ve come along way baby, we’ve got a half white president, and don’t undermine that by tarnishing him as a racist.

Good point, there are extremes within every community that need to go away. I am from a different era, long ago where there was no opportunity.

Peace to the GODS and EARTHS

elvis says

Clarance, I think Rush and Pat work for the betterment of all, regardless of race. I think they believe the primary weapon against poverty is unrestricted economic opportunity. Something that is rapidly disappearing in America…due to an overactive government.
I agree that welfare needs to be reduced/redesigned. There has been little, if any, improvement in living standards of the poor. They’re essentially trapped in a barely tolerable existence of government handouts.
The percentage of poor people who work has decreased because welfare has increased. For people with low labor market skills welfare has sawn off the bottom rungs on the ladder of success. Government has created a more-or-less permanent class of idle, often resentful people. This is unhealthy for society, both economically and morally.
BTW, I’m sorry to hear about your grandparents and I applaud your drive and determination to do better for your family and yourself through education.

I think we all agree that welfare enables the poor by not giving them enough responsibility. The trick is to have enough welfare to help those persons like ourselves whom are hard working to keep their families fed during tough economic times and/or when we are out of work. In my life, it has never taken me more than 12 mos to find a job. There is a lot of mental illness that prevents persons from moving forward, everyone has been repressed at some point in society. My grandparents were born near 1838 prior to the industrial revolution and WWII which opened many doors. Rush and Pat infuse a lot of rhetoric into their philosophies which makes it difficult to see their root point...capitalism and free enterprises breeds more opportunity.

"...would do anything for the betterment of the black community. "

Well then just what is that you want if not breaking an archaic redline system of social segregation in every city plan in America that was laid out planned before 1964?

But besides that the answer as I pointed out in jest, blacks bettering their own neighborhood.
Most cities in America after the depression and the New Deal was struck, city planners took a red pencil and drew a red box by from the Railroad to the highway, and designated those as black neighborhoods. It just so happened that these neighborhoods were the oldest neighborhoods in these towns. Built in the 20's or before. Then suburbs were planned on the other side and that is where development growth took place. And on the other side town city scapes sprawled up and around these older neighborhoods that became intercity distressed neighborhoods.

The condition that many of these homes have deteriorated to is deplorable, and many are so small or crudely built structures in the first place that there isn't much you can do with them other than tear them down and build new.

I have seen some of these listings, anywhere from 9 to 39K even here in south Florida. They are in neighborhoods that are in rough condition and 98% black according to net statistics. But really these neighborhoods should be prime real estate if you think about it. They are placed in the best locations of every city in America. And why the black community is living in those conditions instead of updating and or demolishing and building new, them selves.

Why do Super Stars, Pop stars, athletes and the like hit big and move so far away instead trying to develop these neighborhoods? Oh because then the 5 or 6 adults living in Grandma's paid in full 700 ft 4 bedroom house, would have to take responsibility and get a job and actually have to pay and to afford to live in those nice updated conditions. SO it's really more about not liking their social status on the rung of the society, but they aren't really keen on actually having to work and better them selves to pay for better.

I mean other than these neighborhoods realizing they hold the key to their own neighborhoods prosperity or we fire up the bull dozers as I first suggested, it may sound Communist but it would be more effective than trying to get Dae Dae, Rapheal, Tyrone, Dee Dee, Tasha, and Sheniqua to get off their asses and help their Ma out and fix up the house they've managed to wear down to a nub over the last 25-30 years.

But other than that what would you have Rush Limbaugh and Pat Buchanan do?

...and yet, I see no "shocking political differences to 'wow' about." Just another polarizing thread, libs vs. conservatives with the libs being the bad guys.

Tenouncetrout says

“…would do anything for the betterment of the black community. ”
Well then just what is that you want if not breaking an archaic redline system of social segregation in every city plan in America that was laid out planned before 1964?
But besides that the answer as I pointed out in jest, blacks bettering their own neighborhood.
Most cities in America after the depression and the New Deal was struck, city planners took a red pencil and drew a red box by from the Railroad to the highway, and designated those as black neighborhoods. It just so happened that these neighborhoods were the oldest neighborhoods in these towns. Built in the 20’s or before. Then suburbs were planned on the other side and that is where development growth took place. And on the other side town city scapes sprawled up and around these older neighborhoods that became intercity distressed neighborhoods.
The condition that many of these homes have deteriorated to is deplorable, and many are so small or crudely built structures in the first place that there isn’t much you can do with them other than tear them down and build new.
I have seen some of these listings, anywhere from 9 to 39K even here in south Florida. They are in neighborhoods that are in rough condition and 98% black according to net statistics. But really these neighborhoods should be prime real estate if you think about it. They are placed in the best locations of every city in America. And why the black community is living in those conditions instead of updating and or demolishing and building new, them selves.
Why do Super Stars, Pop stars, athletes and the like hit big and move so far away instead trying to develop these neighborhoods? Oh because then the 5 or 6 adults living in Grandma’s paid in full 700 ft 4 bedroom house, would have to take responsibility and get a job and actually have to pay and to afford to live in those nice updated conditions. SO it’s really more about not liking their social status on the rung of the society, but they aren’t really keen on actually having to work and better them selves to pay for better.
I mean other than these neighborhoods realizing they hold the key to their own neighborhoods prosperity or we fire up the bull dozers as I first suggested, it may sound Communist but it would be more effective than trying to get Dae Dae, Rapheal, Tyrone, Dee Dee, Tasha, and Sheniqua to get off their asses and help their Ma out and fix up the house they’ve managed to wear down to a nub over the last 25-30 years.
But other than that what would you have Rush Limbaugh and Pat Buchanan do?

Who you tellin'. All throughout my childhood I lived in a shed with 11 brothers and sisters. No water, electricity living on a dirt floor. Poverty affected each of us differently, some fell suspect to mental illness and others drug abuse. All any man can do is show empathy and guide the poor in a righteous direction, into the light of GOD. After 400 years of enslavement, 100 years of repression, my family has made it out of the situation that you describe through education, resiliency and determination. These kids (poo poo, doo doo, ta ta) that you speak of run rampant in a fatherless society that promotes thugism over family, which is a result of the direct marketing of thug life to the black community by the music industry, fashion industry and the colluding blacks (Jayz, Tupac, etc.) whom benefit from these activities. These individuals sellout the community for their personal gain, and do nothing to raise the nation of gods and earths, the true and living god within nor any of their ancestors memories.

Your answer will come in a multitude of solutions, none of which involve ignoring that the problems of the community exist. All any man can do to better our society is promote righteousness from within, corporate responsibility and the education of poor folks. If when you bring them to the well to drink, it is their choice to do so...but the key is that the choice must be made availabe to them.