patrick.net

Apologies for the tone. I just get so pissed off writing these defenses of centrist liberalism against really historically ignorant and deeply flawed criticisms and outright repetitions of demagoguery that waft through the corporate press (WSJ/FOXNEWS/ABC) and think tank nexus (Heritage/AEI/Manhattan/Hoover).

Progressive politics *is* centrist politics. Theodore Roosevelt finished second in the race of 2012, running against the somewhat conservative Wilson and the very conservative Taft. Debs, the actual, bona-fide leftist, finished fourth.

Troy says

And you clowns have the temerity to call Obama a leftist!

Actually this BOZO would refer to him as a socialist.

Troy, you might find this interesting. http://www.groundswellusa.org/kyri7802.htm

When it comes to rising property values, in areas where population is sparse, most of the increase in price is nominal only. If the value of money were constant, price would also be relatively constant.

That is why I see the FED and its manipulation of the value and supply of money as the greater threat to freedom. Of course the FED only makes bankers more powerful than they already were. Without the fed, we would still have to deal with the bankers and landowners as you put it. But they are much easier to deal with than legalized counterfeiting which goes on at the FED. In addition to the FED's inflationary policieis, fractional reserve banking drives up the nominal value of land as well (really fractional reserve banking is another form of counterfeiting).

AdHominem says

Actually this BOZO would refer to him as a socialist.

And you would be incorrect. Obama is more closely aligned with the University of Chicago school than Eugene Debs and the Wobblies.

http://www.iseff.com/post/50901421/obamas-economics-and-his-background-from-the

I think Obama fits squarely in the Progressive mold of Theodore Roosevelt. Socialism goes too far to the left -- it is responsible for much of the organized stupidity and mass lethality of the 20th century. Laissez Faire goes to far in the other direction, allowing wealth to trammel everything in its path and loot everything with abandon -- for a recent example one need to just look at the twin lootings accomplished by the first S&L crisis of the 80s and its sequel this decade.

Troy, you might find this interesting. http://www.groundswellusa.org/kyri7802.htm

This: "Another way Georgism can help a Libertarian campaign is by saying we won't need big government as much when we have community collection of ground rent." from the above link is the take-away for me. I am left-libertarian, and like the Progressives, only desire the amount of government that is needed to keep the playing field level for all. I'd like to think community collection of ground rents (to partially fund non-profit local services like parks, libraries, mass transit, lifelong education, medical services, daycare) would be sufficient for this, but I have my doubts. It would certainly be a good start, though.

Troy says

community collection of ground rents

ah yes, the first plank in the communist manifesto.

Troy says

twin lootings accomplished by the first S&L crisis of the 80s and its sequel this decade.

You can thank the FED (its private investors) and their paid off politicians in Congress for that.

AdHominem says

ah yes, the first plank in the communist manifesto.

yes, but that's the end of its cooption by the communist totalitarians. Georgism is generally anarchist in character and attracted minds like Samuel Clemens and Leo Tolstoy as ardent supporters. The community collection of rents is also not a particularly radical proposal:

"Would it be better if we had more taxation of land and natural resource, and more revenue from natural resource management, and I would include atmosphere and spectrum." And less tax on income and savings. And I would say, "Yeah." And I think many economists would agree with that. So, if you want to sell it as a "Single Tax," then, no, you won't get anyone to agree that there's enough revenue there. If you look at is a more "central" tax, then, yes, you will get most economists to agree with you. -- Joseph Stiglitz

AdHominem says

You can thank the FED (its private investors) and their paid off politicians in Congress for that.

Nope, that's just smoke to hide the true locus of responsibility in the Executive.

Hint:

Congress didn't cover themselves in glory 1995-2005 but the true malefactors were the foxes in the henhouse.

Sorry I lack the tinfoil to get all het up about the Fed, though.

Troy says

Sorry I lack the tinfoil to get all het up about the Fed, though.

:)

Troy says

Sorry I lack the tinfoil to get all het up about the Fed, though.

what size do you wear?

we will continue to be servants as long as we allow the FED to "regulate" our currency.

Patrick posted a good article today on the dangers of fractional reserve banking.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff318.html?source=patrick.net

AdHominem says

Troy says

Sorry I lack the tinfoil to get all het up about the Fed, though.

what size do you wear?
we will continue to be servants as long as we allow the FED to “regulate” our currency.
Patrick posted a good article today on the dangers of fractional reserve banking.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff318.html?source=patrick.net

Troy - seems like he made extras in case someone follows him. Shall we tell him that any roll of tinfoil will make lotsa hats?

Nah.

I really couldn't care less how much gold the Fed has stashed in holes in the ground.

Now, days of supply in the SPR, that is actually worth something.

I read something some time ago that really opened my eyes. . . the humble Federal irrigation works serving the California Central Valley produced many, many times more wealth than all the gold dug out of the Sierras. Right now Fresno County produces $5B/yr of ag, mostly cash crops like tree fruit and raisins. That's about equal to Russia's entire annual gold production at current prices.

elliemae says

AdHominem says

Troy says

Sorry I lack the tinfoil to get all het up about the Fed, though.

what size do you wear?

we will continue to be servants as long as we allow the FED to “regulate” our currency.

Patrick posted a good article today on the dangers of fractional reserve banking.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff318.html?source=patrick.net

Troy - seems like he made extras in case someone follows him. Shall we tell him that any roll of tinfoil will make lotsa hats?
Nah.

And yet I thought you said in another thread that you hope for a spirited debate rather than mean spirited? I guess, words sound good, but they are harder to put into practice.

AH ... don't forget the nature of the enemy. Everything is as it should be, and the hour draws near.

AdHominem says

And yet I thought you said in another thread that you hope for a spirited debate rather than mean spirited? I guess, words sound good, but they are harder to put into practice.

Most people wouldn't take that as mean spirited - unless one constantly feels persecuted, that is.

funny thing ... if someone is constantly attacked, they just might notice it now and then. And funny thing, a bully allways calls their targets crybabies/complainers when the targets respond to the bully. Most people realize these little tid bits - unless it is inconvieniant. Like spell-check is inconvieniant for me. lol

Is that what this thread has become? Who called who a bad name? I think that's the sign that it's probably time to lay it to rest...

Kevin says

AdHominem says

Me paying for YOUR health care is slavery if I have no choice but to pay or be fined or imprisoned.

Me paying for YOUR roads is slavery!

roads are for public use
personal health care is --- taa daa --- personal.

ok tatupu, we are back on track!! lol Merry Christmas

tatu would love not to acknowledge that health care "reform" is not only a waste of time, but will also fill the pockets of insurance companies at taxpayer's expense. So would ellie and nomo who have fought hard to make this a name calling and ad hominem affair rather than discussing the real issues.

yawn.

AdHominem says

health care “reform” is not only a waste of time

A waste of time?? Are you kidding? So, you think the status quo is the best we can do?

two seperate halves, no match, no bill. It's just pissed away time and cash and a prez and media all excited that he will get to thump his chest like King Kong and say, "we did SOMETHING!!". Barry is a communist puke. And the leftist media is just a guilty for creating him.

tatupu70 says

This “health care reform” bill is a waste of time and money, and essentially a perpetuation of the status quo you so disdain.

This “health care reform” bill is a waste of time and money, and essentially a perpetuation of the status quo you so disdain.