patrick.net

The difference is the US bound together. Rights went away, because everyone said "That isn't a right I use or really need, but if it'll help the general good, I'll give it up!" Now people are saying "Hmm ops that was a bit too far..."

Don't build a survival kit for that kind of idiocy, build one for earthquakes, floods, or whatever is the most likely to hit you. Keep it in your car, because it's more likely you'll get stranded in your car, find yourself in an accident or helping someone else who has been in an accident. If you were at work, at a park, restaurant, camping, you've at least got the kit with you.

http://www.missilebases.com/properties

But in reality like Pkennedy said the best thing is to have a kit in you car with some good shoes. I keep all my camping/hiking/first aid supplies in sturdy container where it won’t get buried under to much debris when the major earthquake hits. You and I are the same on guns because of kids although sometimes I think of getting a revolver and just locking it in combo safe.

Getting your Ham license might be fun I got one when I was a kid and I think it’s much easier to get now since they took the Morris Code portion out of it, haven’t used one in decades. Could get a prepaid Satellite phone with no month charges and just add minutes as needed if you want to blow some cash.

I was going to start a post with a similar theme, but this one is close enough--
How bad would things have to get in the US for Greek style protests or even Egypt style protests to take place? Some have suggested that merely making major cuts in food stamps amounts/numbers would bring the US to a similar state ...

American in Japan says

Some have suggested that merely making major cuts in food stamps amounts/numbers would bring the US to a similar state …

Depends on what happens at the state level, really. Cutting back on our $9B/yr prison industry is a double-whammy, putting more people out on the street who can't get work, and cutting into the 60,000 employee-years the system is funding, e.g. a 10% cutback would cost 6,000 jobs theoretically.

The state has $16B/yr to cut if we don't get our tax rises passed this year. $16B would be at least a half-million people negatively effected (at $30,000 each -- maybe twice that since that $30,000 generally involves a service provider and a state beneficiary), plus peak initial claims were in 2009 so these people will be running out of their 99 weeks any day now, which will raise the simmer temperature a bit more as this welcome influx of Federal money into local communities goes away.

Throw in a crack-down on illegal employment in traditionally OK areas like food service, another click or two.

I think the state is fucked and that's one of the main reasons I want to move out, either to a doomstead up north or back to Japan, though a nice enough place down in southern OC might also work.

I would hope the government (state and local) could steadily divert money away from "industries" with a low multiplier effect (i.e. prisons and the military) to stimulate those with a greater multiplier effect. I may be too idealistic here but that is one of the policy changes that needs to be done.

@pkennedy
>The difference is the US bound together. Rights went away, because everyone said “That isn’t a right I use or really need, but if it’ll help the general good, I’ll give it up!” Now people are saying “Hmm ops that was a bit too far…”

Well said.

Just turn off Glenn Beck and you'll be Okay.

lurking says

Just turn off Glenn Beck and you’ll be Okay.

But don't forget to pack extra chalk for your chalkboard. ;)

Algeria is now having riots apparently...

Z raises a point - if your house burns down, along with your computer, have you a backup for the important stuff? And is it in your house?

I'm not worried about riots, floods, fires, etc. But when the alien ship lands in my (huge-ass) backyard, I am worried that they'll land on my septic tank and crush it. Those suckers are expensive.

I only worry about plausible things.

If our internet and television were to shut down over night. With in a week, our collective blood pressure would fall by 75%. Would we still be an angry rabble? Probably, but a more focused and coherent one, at peace with our selves.

Nah, we'd be freaking out due to lack of news,

Radio, food, water, basic medicine, gas/oil for the vehicle. Batteries, flash light, gas lamp (gas to keep it filled). A tent (thats more for earthquakes, fires, etc...)

Depending on your geographical location a rifle and a hand gun may be a necessity.

Civil rights do get trampled upon very easily, even in our society. We still have the patriot act to remind us of 9/11. In Indiana (Fort Wayne) groups of locals got into a mob and started rounding up local Muslims and castrating them after news of 9/11.

During WW2 this nation had concentration camps for Japanese. Shit happens, best way to deal with it is to be ready.

Rights went away, because everyone said “That isn’t a right I use or really need, but if it’ll help the general good, I’ll give it up!”

You, sir, are a funny motherfucker.

This last weeks economist (I think the one with the article about 3D printing) just had an article about the possibility of the internet being shut off in the U.S. and the basic conclusion was that it's highly unlikely here, one reason being it would simply be a lot more complicated to shut it off her than it was in Egypt. (And even there they weren't able to totally shut it off.)

i would plan for a Katrina style scenario. Say a temporary disruption of civil society, and a slow painful restart.

So 30 days food, Water Filters, camp stove or sterno, box of ammo,....

Look if you want to plan for the dead rising, well, shoot, move north.

but could we see major riots, like greece, or a hurricane hit and the government fold up for a while? sure.

elliemae says

But when the alien ship lands in my (huge-ass) backyard,

I dunno about alien spacecraft, but I am sure the house I live in was haunted for the first year or two after we moved in. I don't think it is haunted now.
Do I have to disclose it when it comes time to sell?

Patrick....I appreciate you and your logical way of seeing things! Just like the housing bust....you are onto something and people should listen!!!

hey Patrick....move to Canada, buy a homestead near a river, stash some food away, it's not bad there. Nobody will probably bug you...their too polite. Just make sure you like hockey!

sybrib says

I dunno about alien spacecraft, but I am sure the house I live in was haunted for the first year or two after we moved in. I don’t think it is haunted now.
Do I have to disclose it when it comes time to sell?

Finally! A sensible question.

The answer is a resounding NO! Unless your house is actively haunted at the time of the listing (or the time you placed an ad, put a sign front, listed on Craigslist, nailed a sign to a phone pole, or painted "for sale" in florescent paint on your neighbor's roof with an arrow pointing toward your home - and I recommend you wait until the neighbors are away to do this), you don't have to disclose the haunting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jThcc5lbfOs
If a dead clown appears in the window signaling unspeakable evil, however, you might have to have a ready explanation. Might I suggest using the ex-spouse/stalker dressed like a clown excuse? It worked for me.
-------------------------------
Seriously, it doesn't hurt to be prepared for a snowstorm or other disaster. They don't happen often, but when they do it's vital that one be ready. I have a "fire kit" by my door during the summer months, living in the mountains/high desert. I have a weeks' worth of medications and other stuff, you can't be too careful.

what kinds of food you guys would stock ?

francophile,

there are all kinds of reasons for having a reserve, and it will come in handy when you least expect it. There was the time when both parents in the house got sidelined with the flu. Since there was a reserve supply of spare food that didn't need cooking, the kids were able to manage.

There's the time when the refrigerator died during a nasty heat wave when I had to work double shifts (no time to shop for another one); stuff lasted a long time in the freezer since there's always a block of ice in it so we had barbeque for a few days that time;

The "cash stash" has been there in a nick of time for all sorts of stuff that came up, and was replaced the next day the bank was open.

More than once the electricity has gone out after dark when kids had a heavy homework load, including during a storm. Had to go to someone else's house where the lights were still on. A generator would've been nice. One of the homes on my street has a generator because they have a person living there who needs constant power for a dialysis machine or something such thing like that. It makes a large racket but when the power goes out, their lights are still on.

Gasoline ! Remember, people died in the hurricane because they could not evacuate. Probably we won't have a hurricane, but if the electricity is out from an earthquake or whatever then the gas pumps won't work. I still rememeber seeing Jose Canseco on TV, with his babe-a-licious Esther Canseco, still wearing his Oakland A's uniform, stranded when his Trans Am ran out of gasoline a filling station in Woodside where the electricity was out after having evacuated the World Series game in Candlestick Park when the 1989 quake happened. The TV reporters van also ran out of gas there, but had enough battery power to make a story about it on the TV news. Maybe there will be some other reason that we cannot even imagine right now that we'd have to evacuate. You'll never know if you needed it till its too late. Keep enough gas in the tank for the evacuation.

I was thinking exactly like you Patrick, and will get myself a radio HAM license also learn the radio packet on how to hook up the laptop to it, I was dreaming about the "moon bounce" 15 years ago, I think 30 days of dry food supply and water filter is reasonable, and for self defense, few teasers at few hundreds thousands volts each well charged would be OK, may be even safer than gun and ammo, good pair of shoes ready in the car with blanket and battery for radio and light in a backpack ready to "jump" like the boy-scouts, in case of "disaster" (natural or social) I learned from my father in the "war time" that your life is more precious than anything else so "avoiding the elephant is not a shame", just keep low profile and be in good health to be able to run away fast if all the roads are cut-off.
Paper money in that situation would be worthless for sure but we still need few thousands in z pocket, thick enough to go unoticeable.
Thank you Patrick for your clear vision, I was reading regularly to your website

During the Cold War I had a roommate who worked for a defense contractor in the Blue Cube when it was still part of the nuclear deterrent apparatus.

They had "phone drills" where they have to be ready to go to work immediately. Like the Strategic Air Command, theoretically they're supposed to respond as if every drill is the real thing. I suspected that he'd suspect when one wasn't a drill. Of course, they're not supposed to say anything, but he told me the clue would be if I saw him leave with an overnight bag. His girlfriend heard him say that to me.

Some months later when I got home she was hysterical, because he left at a late hour to "go to work", and took his overnight bag. This was as the cold war was winding down and peace was breaking out, so I didn't pay it any attention but she was a nervous wreck.

Some days later I mentioned it to him. Oh yeah, he said, he thought he'd stop by the 24 HR Nautilus he belonged to on the way home, so he took his gym bag.

I think it`s more of a mental preparation individually and as a group then material, though water and some basic needs would would be good to contemplate.

Try getting rid of your Tv and ph, cell for a week, and see how you and your family will deal with each other. After that try cooking without electricity or gas for a week. You`ll get an idea of what you`ll need in both materials and mental capacity.

Though its just an exercise I believe everyone will learn something about themselves and each other. Make everyone inclusive in the exercise so that they also can contribute to the ideas. This way if you are separated when or during an event, your children will not go into a dependency based indecision.

research a good divorce attorney from the fallout of the above exercise in advance :-)

I've worked in Emergency Preparedness and I can tell you that the most likely and most tricky scenario is simply a black out or brown out for more than 3 days. You don't need a disaster or political unrest. Because we live in such a cashless society and no credit cards or atms or checks will be taken in a blackout, by day 4 charity will run thin, tempers will run high, and states of emergency will bring in Unified Commands aka Homeland Security and Marshal Law. That even makes Mayors uneasy.

No money no diapers, food, medicine (and no drugs - so lots of unhappy, even more desperate drug addicts and that is not a small problem.) In China after the large earth quake, the black market was up in a flash collecting all the prescription drugs it could from regular families in return for cash (a) because China uses a lot more cash than we do and (b) because drug dealers have more cash than anybody.

Maybe it will be difficult to turn off the internet but it won't be difficult to turn off electricity. Sure, make friends with the people who have solar - or buy some yourself.

And then there are the pumps. A surprising number of US cities rely on electricity for their pumps to keep water out of major roadways and downtown areas and subways that are all below water table or sea levels. You want to stop a city in its tracks - this will do it. Supplies not coming in, transportation within and in and out all down, logistics nightmare for emergency crews...

I bet Enron could have given us an Egypt if they'd wanted to. ugh

Have food stocks and in any emergency the FIRST thing you do after you are sure your immediate family is alright and your building is stable - is FILL YOUR BATH TUB. Always keep your bathtub(s) clean. You never know if you'll need the water.

You can survive:
3 minutes without air
3 hours of exposure (wet / cold)
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
3 months without chocolate (never been tested tho)

I live in new york city. I always have. I hang out in a lot of really nice neighborhoods and many that are not so nice. Last week's half-a-day Eastern European serial killer notwithstanding, there is very little you cannot talk/maneuver your way into or out of if you have some street smarts.

I was in LA for the riots 18 years ago. BUY YOURSELF A GUN AND LEARN TO USE IT AND TEACH YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN GUN SAFETY OR MOVE TO A DIFFERENT STATE.

The problem with JUST having survival or storage food is that eventually it runs out (I highly recommend that everyone have at least 3 months of supply for each member of their family--to give one and one's family options as to what to do). But then what are you going to do when your survival/storage food runs out?

As I wrote in another blog, the key to GD2 survival lies in community or even just a group of families, and in the means to produce energy and food locally:

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/02/4-best-methods-for-off-grid-food.html

The key to energy and food self-sufficiency lies in small to medium scale alcohol production on the farm or farmland, as was done 100 years by most farmers throughout the Western world. With alcohol (or ethanol) produced, one can then use alcohol stoves, alcohol heaters, alcohol lamps, alcohol refrigerators, alcohol electricity generators, etc. to be completely energy self-sufficient. Growing veggies using the CO2 produced from alcohol production, and you can grow fish/earthworms/mushrooms using the left over mash from alcohol production.

A 10 acre of land growing crops for alcohol (sugar beets, sweet sorghum, potatoes, cattails, etc.) using hydroponics and aquaponics can theoretically produce over $500,000 of food and fuel products! Think of 10 families banding together to do this. After the expenses and marketing and advertising ($120,000), the net profit can be divided among 10 families making about $38,000 each, and each family doing about 25 to 30 hours of work per week!

That's a killer job to survive and THRIVE during GD2!

Here is a good place to get your supplies: www.redflarekits.com

notoforeclosures, Thats the best idea i`ve seen so far. Farming your own energy along with your food.

I do research for people on what if's in the worst possible situation. I have had a few people refuse to receive my emails any more because they think I am the grim reaper. I am an American and my wife is from Argentina. We both survived Latin American military governments in the 1970's. (Me in Peru and Brasil and Elena in Argentina where some 30,000 people were murdered.) We have survived economic crashes and hyper inflation. I would advise anyone to have the supplies you would need to ride an earthquake. I would recommend a few hundred dollars in cash. But do not keep thousands in the house. There is always a "jungle telegraph" that mysteriously operates. If you keep a big amount of cash in the house, thieves hear about it. The next thing that happens is a violent home invasion and perhaps your murder during the robbery. A foreign bank account would be helpful. Keep the balance $9,900 or less so you do not have to report it to the IRS (Failure to report a foreign bank account over $9,900 is up to ten years in Federal prison.) I would want a very stable currency. I would look at Norway, Sweden, Finland, or Denmark. You should also have a place to go in the countryside where you could "hide out" if things got bad in the big cities. (In our case my sister has a small ranch.) If you are richer or have strong ties to another country, set yourself up as a permanent resident in another country. Argentina has a lot of potential. I can recommend a law firm to help you. A satellite internet wireless internet connection should also be considered.

Riots here in the US? Impossible. You really think the average obese, diabetes ridden lard ass will get off his fat behind and have a standoff with authorities. Now imagine his favorite reality show or sporting event is at the same time the riot is supposed to take place? Nobody would show up. As long as people have enough to eat and a TV they won't riot. Hell, most are not even aware that there is a problem. If anything is wrong its those damn foreigner's fault or the liberals, tree huggers, oil companies or some other imaginary foe du jour.
No, Americans are too fat, too lazy and too stupid to riot. That's why the looting of the banksters continues unabated; they know they have nothing to fear from the American citizens.

I have to agree with der-mupf that riots in US with the Egypt magnitude won't happen. US is to diversified and broken in so many parts. Look at the TV and radio news and the way they are constructed: local news primarily with just a hint of the international news. Even CNN is censured in a way. US government machine has more control that most of the people think it has.
Divide and Rule - this is how the Roman Empire was able to rule huge territories for many centuries.
The information is a power that can spike anything you want! If you control it you can rule. This in a combination with the welfare, relatively low prices of groceries and gasoline compared to Europe and some other parts of the world allows the US Government to keep the masses semi happy. Excluding some local riots (like the LA ones) US was not experiencing any major issues probably since the Civil war.

To illustrate my point that most people are not even aware that we have a problem. Every couple of years we have a ritual called an election. We get to pick between 2 candidates (Republican & Democrat), both of which work for the corporate interest and against the interest of the average voter. Now if you had an educated electorate that is paying attention neither of those candidates should get more than maybe 5-10%. There's are plenty of other options, from radicals on the left, right and religious end to greens, libertarians or independents. Still, all of those outside of the big corporate interest maybe get a combined 1-10% of the vote. That means 90+% of the people who actually vote swallow the propaganda they're being fed by the media without giving it one more thought. Every administration starting with Reagan was out to loot mainstream America for the benefit of the few. They occasionally throw in a few token issues like abortion, gay rights, flag burning, nose picking and what not. That's nothing but a distraction for the unwashed masses. They get off on clowns like Hanity, Olberman or Limbaugh talking themselves into a rage about some utter nonsense. The only issue our political class feels passionate about is how to enrich themselves and their cronies. Granted, the cronies differ a bit. One side prefers big oil and the military industrial complex while the other guys tend to favor finance and insurance. Come to find out, those finance guys are REALLY GOOD at looting America. Much more efficient than those warmongers or oil barons. So the pigs change from time to time, but the feeding buckets always stay the same.

To the comment made by der_mupf, I wish the American voters can realize that only when you have variety to pick from you can make better choice. As like at the grocery store when you have 10-15 different kinds of cereal. However the Republican and Democratic parties are too strong and realize that only by monopoly they can own the American voters and take turns in the government. The current generation is a consumer that received everything readily, it did not to fight for nothing, but just giving it rights and freedom away little by little. The fathers of this nation fought hard for right and freedom, but their successors are giving it away cheap. It is almost about the theory of wealth that says that it takes quite few generations to make a wealth, but only one generation can spend it.
This is what we doing right now in US: we are not building, not creating, but spending. Yet the government spends your money as a taxpayer!

Glad you posted this, I have also been thinking this and feel like it's not a bad idea to be prepared. We have seen what happens, Katrina, Egypt....looting happens near UC Berkeley sometimes. Things happen. Also, buying toothbrushes and soap by the case is cheap on amazon. Then you have stuff you use anyway and pay less.

Here's a list I have been compiling.

water filter and tablets
detergent, soap, sponges
alcohol (vodka?)
rice--vac packed
beans
powdered/ canned milk
seeds
shoes
med supplies, antibiotics

batteries,
hand tools
Fuel.
Zinc sunblock.
toothbrush
Bug spray.
Netting.
Lamp.fuel.
Bike.

gun, ammo (not sure I can really do it, but I might get one and put it in a safe in the attic)

if s*hit hit the fan:
Books--how to
Chickens.
Vegetable garden
wind-up radios
solar cookers
a Coleman stove and liquid fuel for it

p.s. we sold our place at the height in Oakland in 06 and moved east. we saw interest rates go up and bidding go down right away and so sold quick since we did not want to raise kids there. i hear the police no longer respond to certain crimes. what happens in earthquake i wonder?

anyway, that was obvious then, and this type of prep seems reasonable and prudent.

The best survival blog on the Internet is at:

http://www.survivalblog.com

I expect a high potential for martial law (regardless of the event trigger -- this is no longer relevant) at some point and a knock on the door to vacate to a pre-designated emergency center. That's when each household will need to make a decision to lose all Constitutional rights, or bug out to a pre-designated destination.

Handing over your legal rights will be a hard choice. There will nothing to prevent you or your loved ones from being raped, murdered, or starved to death once you give up your rights and hand them to someone else. Once in an emergency shelter under such a situation, you will not have the ability to leave at will. Depending on the event and the intent, you may be in such a shelter for a long period of time.

Given the education level, violent tendencies, and self-righteousness/lack of religion of the average person, do you feel comfortable in a situation in which you would be forced to live in close proximity with countless such people in desperate conditions, with no legal rights, and under armed guard? Consider the inefficiencies of your caretakers, or their potential for corruption. Would you rather try your best to survive on your own?

That is the question you need to ask yourself before you find yourself not having a choice in the matter because you did not prepare ahead of time. Once you bug out on your own, you will always have the ability to show up at an emergency shelter, assuming you have been checking local reports on how well people are surviving in those shelters.

Riots could happen in the USA but it would take some major event to trigger it. An event that the average Joe never thought would/could happen. By nature, Americans for the most part are very lazy and don't really take the time to understand things. Most people probably can't even figure out how APR is calculated on their credit cards. Or they don't care to understand.

It would take something like the financial system collapsing or falling apart. Or a run on the banking system where people couldn't access their bank accounts. Even so, these days you can electronically transfer out funds without the actual branch being open but if something were to happen where banks shut down you'd have chaos and riots.

I remember I was in Argentina back in 2001 when their financial system and banks fell apart. Banks closed overnight and basically any funds people had in their accounts were suddenly devalued and worth 1/3 of what they had. Banks closed down and were shut and people could only withdraw $300 US per month. The amazing thing to me is there were people protesting and banging on pots and pans in the street.

If the same thing happened in the USA, you'd have right wing nuts blowing up banks. I'm sure of it. People try to argue and then I remind them, "why did those nuts blow up the Oklahoma City building?". It was because they weren't happy with the government. So imagine how unhappy people would be if they couldn't withdraw their funds.

While I think the Egypt style chaos isn't likely I do think there could be some event in the next few decades that involves rioting and protesting on a larger scale.

I think it's wise to own another property in another country as well. Preferably one that you enjoy anyway for vacations. Then if things went sour you would always have another place to go to.

bubbleburst --

Are you suggesting that the reason people would not have access to their money during a financial crisis would be because the banks were fearful of being blown up by upset people? Banks were not blown up in Argentina, Iceland, the Soviet Union, or any of the countries the IMF has "helped." Why do you think that would that happen here?

According to Tim McVeigh, Oklahoma City was to help protect religious freedom in the US, through intimidation.

bubblesburst says

Riots could happen in the USA but it would take some major event to trigger it. An event that the average Joe never thought would/could happen. By nature, Americans for the most part are very lazy and don’t really take the time to understand things. Most people probably can’t even figure out how APR is calculated on their credit cards. Or they don’t care to understand.
It would take something like the financial system collapsing or falling apart. Or a run on the banking system where people couldn’t access their bank accounts. Even so, these days you can electronically transfer out funds without the actual branch being open but if something were to happen where banks shut down you’d have chaos and riots.
I remember I was in Argentina back in 2001 when their financial system and banks fell apart. Banks closed overnight and basically any funds people had in their accounts were suddenly devalued and worth 1/3 of what they had. Banks closed down and were shut and people could only withdraw $300 US per month. The amazing thing to me is there were people protesting and banging on pots and pans in the street.
If the same thing happened in the USA, you’d have right wing nuts blowing up banks. I’m sure of it. People try to argue and then I remind them, “why did those nuts blow up the Oklahoma City building?”. It was because they weren’t happy with the government. So imagine how unhappy people would be if they couldn’t withdraw their funds.
While I think the Egypt style chaos isn’t likely I do think there could be some event in the next few decades that involves rioting and protesting on a larger scale.
I think it’s wise to own another property in another country as well. Preferably one that you enjoy anyway for vacations. Then if things went sour you would always have another place to go to.

I think once living standards decline further and unemployment rises we'll have huge protests of same caliber. The way I see it, there is no point to live in a society if one is going to be treated like crap in it and suffer.

US is a much larger territory, so it is harder to setup a protest. It's one thing where travel time is an hour, it's totally different where you have to fly for 6 hours to get to the east coast.

Nomograph says

ChrisLA says

The way I see it, there is no point to live in a society if one is going to be treated like crap in it and suffer.

Victim much?

Quite often, the bully is the victim, as well. Poor relations with emotionally unavailable parents, who are verbally abusive. And quite often, the victim becomes the bully, later on.