patrick.net

Yes, without question IMO they are better informed. I expect TV usage will slowly decline, the way that landlines already have. I personally haven't had cable or a TV in over 3 years now. It was directly triggered by having a baby with cholic and no TIME for it, but I don't miss it a bit. I expect slowly but surely internet usage will supplant television and it offers far more choices and better information and access. You can argue time spent sitting is bad but I'd rather sit in front of a screen sifting information even if it's still news about Charlie Sheen, rather than sitting on a couch passively absorbing it on the schedule and pacing preferred by soap sellers.

Good analyses so far. But, how do you get things like "Iraqis were on the plane at 9.11", Americans invented democracy", and misunderstanding of levels of wealth distribution in the US, etc. believed by millions of Americans? I won't even go into Miss Teen South Carolina a few years ago.

American in Japan says

Good analyses so far. But, how do you get things like “Iraqis were on the plane at 9.11″ an d things belived by millions of Americans>

Most people are idiots. They were just bigger, even more uninformed idiots in the past. Can you imagine how dumb people were 1000 years ago or even just 100 years ago?

I appreciate the comments here... just hoping this will stay on the general concept and not turn off on one of the many "birther" threads already out there...

AiJ:
I would say that people are more informed. But are they better informed? That's a quality issue and difficult to quantify, very subjective.

An example of my question is the people who walk into my sub-acute unit armed with information as to how to appropriately treat the medical condition of their family member, complete with medications and other therapies. They've read a bit of stuff online, printed it off and ta-DA! They're experts. They're often devastated when they find out that the treatment doesn't even begin to work as they expected it to because everyone is different - and our doctors point this out on a regular basis.

On the other hand, I can get all my Charlie Sheen information by the second due to his incessant tweets (don't tweet but it's all over the interwebs). I'm surprised they don't tell us when he takes a dump.

I had some theories, but they may change...

(1) Knowledge is more accurate and readily available, but people are just lazier now.

(2) Knowledge is more accurate and readily available, but those who wish to deceive are working overtime to put out their junk, so now it is a massive task to sort through it all.

(3) Knowledge is more accurate and readily available, but many want to believe what they want to believe...the old
"Don't confuse me with the facts" syndrome

Hmmm...

Vicente says

It was directly triggered by having a baby with cholic

You poor thing, I went through that with my youngest daughter. For the first 6 months if she wasn't sleeping, she was wailing loudly for hours.

American in Japan says

Knowledge is more accurate and readily available

Err, I don't believe the internet made things more accurate. It is certainly readily available - just go to foxnews or huffington post and you'll see that while it is available it is certainly not accurate. Opposing views are out there but people are no longer forced to deal with it.

I should rephrase that.

>FoxNews
LOL! Points (2) and (3) perhaps.

People are more informed but the information they get, is so convoluted until all of the information, is regarded in the same context. Whether it's a Bigfoot pictures, or a damning expose' damning the our whole Democratic process, or our economic system and policy. There's just so much information, that people don't have time to react on real "scandal" and the most significant cases of fraud, corruption, and over all general conflicts of interests on every level; that has taken place through out the turn of the Century.
When there is a reaction, investigations and charges, or a general inquest even. The facts are long shredded or inertia is lost from that effort, to follow the latest Celebrity meltdown.

Tenouncetrout says

Vicente says

It was directly triggered by having a baby with cholic

You poor thing, I went through that with my youngest daughter. For the first 6 months if she wasn’t sleeping, she was wailing loudly for hours.

I coined an acronym to describe the 4 states of child with cholic: SEEE or SE-cubed

Sleeping
Eating
Excreting
ENRAGED

It amuses me to handle other people's "fussy" babies, which are nothing of the sort by my standards. I'd say "this little bit of grumbling? Didn't notice it, try handling a baby that screams red-faced top-of-the-lungs for 2 hours". On the plus side I can sleep on planes right next to stranger babies anyone else would call a nuisance.

Doctors tell you it's "neurological" meaning they don't know, there's nothing to be done about it.

Again here, INTERNET TO THE RESCUE, because local doctors and friends not much use. At least I knew what I was facing after some research and reading. It's a phase you have to survive. Internet connected me with forums for other parents with the same problem, which was not so accessible with local groups or other more traditional means.

@EllieMae
>People who walk into my sub-acute unit armed with information as to how to appropriately treat the medical condition of their family member, complete with medications and other therapies. They’ve read a bit of stuff online, printed it off and ta-DA! They’re experts.

I think it is good overall that they are informed patients. The problem is as you said their attitude is that they are "experts", and that there is the benefit of practical experiance. As long as they put their knowledge in perspective. All things said though, there are a good number of marginal, unimpressive doctors here in Japan, so getting a second opinion with another doctor (and reading up) could be important.

Our ABILITY to be properly informed has never been higher. However, most people don't care to be, and that is hard coded into our DNA. People either don't want, or don't have the time, to question the things they hear.

This site is a perfect example of information that counters popular misconceptions. Most people will never read it, or understand it. I try to tell people all the time why buying a house doesn't always make sense, and you really need to break down the numbers and compare it to renting. I still get the standard response of "but renting is just throwing money away" and "well you get a good tax write-off when you buy." These are smart people too...one's that should be fully capable of understanding what I tell them. SLOWLY, people are starting to understand otherwise, but that's only because the mainstream media has begun presenting that. I think that shows that at the end of the day, George W was right....we aren't people, we are "sheeple."

>Our ABILITY to be properly informed has never been higher. However, most people don’t care to be...

Well said!

American in Japan says

I think it is good overall that they are informed patients. The problem is as you said their attitude is that they are “experts”, and that there is the benefit of practical experiance. As long as they put their knowledge in perspective. All things said though, there are a good number of marginal, unimpressive doctors here in Japan, so getting a second opinion with another doctor (and reading up) could be important.

You're absolutely correct in your statement that there is the need to put knowledge in perspective. You're also correct that there's a chunk of unimpressive doctors. They're here too.

But the people I was talking about are the ones who demand a specific medication or treatment because they read about it online - not the ones who ask if the med might work or discuss treatments & alternatives with the doctors. There are many, many people who refuse to accept that treatments don't always work overnight, and that much of the information they've read wasn't evidenced-based.

Sometimes people are correct, but most of the time those who demand a specific treatment don't get a positive outcome. I've had doctors refuse and the family member change the patient's doctor, only to have the new doctor act in the same manner. You'd probably be surprised at how many angry encounters I see every week.

The medical info accessible via internet can be great but it can also be - well, not great.

Yes, I think people are far more informed than they used to be.

American in Japan says

Good analyses so far. But, how do you get things like “Iraqis were on the plane at 9.11″, Americans invented democracy”, and misunderstanding of levels of wealth distribution in the US, etc. believed by millions of Americans? I won’t even go into Miss Teen South Carolina a few years ago.

I'm not so sure that it hasn't always been this way. Most people tend to believe complete nonsense, and continue to believe it even when shown clearly that it's not true, if to not believe it involves a major shift in identity or group-association. I mean just look at groups thats deny evolution, continuing to bring up up the same silly arguments over and over again. It's not about ignorance, it's about social conformity.

Most topics are not a threat to one's identity though, and I think people are more informed overall.

Vicente says

Yes, without question IMO they are better informed.

I disagree. The information is there, but they have to want to access it. It's no different then not going to the library to look answers up. It's completely possible to be connected to all the information in the world, but being completely ignorant.

Not all people have a natural curiously. They are tuned into sports or who's sleeping with who valley girl gossip. They live in there own little world, there's no law that compels them to pay attention to the rest of the world.

I've lived half my life before computers and half afterwards so far. I have found I can find wrong information much faster now than before. Who would a thunk the things we say these days. "Google" "Tweet" - and be totally serious about it. These days people will say something like "I think I am gonna google that tweet I saw on twitter" and it is all just normal conversation. Bottom line I agree with TechGromit.

I think we are more informed today than 10 years ago. Beauty of the internet is that information cannot be ran and filtered (at least for now) by only a few corporate interests like the news on television/radio.

Internet really allows more information shared. I don't have to rely on one sided left wing or right wing crap on the news anymore.

@Techgrommit

>The information is there, but they have to want to access it. It’s no different then not going to the library to look answers up. It’s completely possible to be connected to all the information in the world, but being completely ignorant.

This points to (3) "Don't confuse me with the facts." attitude so many have.

elliemae says

But the people I was talking about are the ones who demand a specific medication or treatment because they read about it online

Same people a decade or two ago did that because incessant TV, radio, and magazine ads told them zoloft would fix them. Internet added nothing new there.

@Fortwayne

>"I think we are more informed today than 10 years ago. Beauty of the internet is that information cannot be ran and filtered (at least for now) by only a few corporate interests like the news on television/radio."

Agreed.

American in Japan says

I won't even go into Miss Teen South Carolina a few years ago.

"Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the U.S. on a world map. Why do you think this is?"

This is a stupid question to start with.

First, a fifth is not a high number.

Second, cannot read a world map is not a big deal.
I bet half of us don't know which galaxy does earth belong to?

Don't even let me start on the question.
"Where is Earth located in the Milky Way Galaxy?"

The question is biased.
It wants people to answer "we need to have a better education system."
However the correct answer is that "Because a fifth of Americans don't have an US passport" or "Knowing where US is is an useless information"

thunderlips11 says

by proclaiming their Birther status advertise their membership to other beliefs: Gods, Guns, and Bible. It's a group identity thing. Liberals have their own forms of this, like Food Purity and abundant bumper stickers on the Volvo.

I think you've nailed it.

American in Japan says

>Our ABILITY to be properly informed has never been higher. However, most people don’t care to be...
Well said!

Mainly because of point (3). "Don't confuse me with facts..."

Once upon a time radio, and then TV, were supposed to educate and inform us.

Instead it was turned into a tool for selling soap and wrapping infotainment with lies. GOP makes their position on this even more clear with their unending attacks on PBS.

One nation
under God
has turned into
one nation under the influence
of one drug
[chorus:]
Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
(2x)

"Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy"

A lot of the same impulses seem present with Internet these days. Dumb it down, control it, monetize it. Worst part is people who willingly participate in handing their entire lives over to Google or Facebook or whoever wants to own their online soul. "But I got this handful of magic beans what a trade!"

Much of this ignorance is intentional.

American in Japan says

With the internet, there seems to be more information at people's easy access than at any time before, yet ignorance abounds...or does it?

Well, people still don't know how to spell Internet. It's with a capital I. You know, because it's a proper noun. That's why you say "the Internet" instead of "an internet".

Now there is a common noun, internet, but it means something entirely different. Here's the simple, non-technical definitions.

internet (common noun) - a network of networks.

Internet (proper noun) - the largest internet created by mankind.

Some of the stats from the article:
- 25 percent of Americans believed in the Theory of Evolution is wrong
- 21 percent of Americans believe there are real sorcerers, conjurers, and warlocks
- 41 percent believe in ESP
- 32 percent believe in ghosts
- 25 percent believe in astrology
- 40 percent of Americans believe the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act creates a panel that makes decisions about end-of-life care
- 41 percent believed Saddam was involved in 9/11
- 20 percent of Americans were still sure in 1999 that the sun revolved around the Earth.
- barely half of Americans were correctly able to state that Judaism was older than both Christianity and Islam. As Bill Maher put it, half of Americans read the words "Old Testament" and "New Testament" and can't tell which is older.

Hmmm. I think that these sets have a lot of overlap. 25% of Americans are just plain stupid and uneducated. Another 15% are barely educated.

more than three quarters of Americans could name at least two of the seven dwarfs, while not quite a quarter could name two members of the Supreme Court

In all fairness, the dwarfs don't say that cops can tear off your clothes and perform a cavity search on you. So, it's not like the Supreme Court is very respectable.

xenogear3 says

Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the U.S. on a world map.

Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the U.S. on a U.S. map.

The interesting thing is that although a scary high percentage of Americans are complete idiots, those people who do have knowledge, have an incredible amount of extremely detailed knowledge of subject matters. Just think about how much knowledge you have to have to be a doctor, a software developer, an aerospace engineer, a designer of engines, a materials scientist creating new fabrics, a network engineer, etc.

The smart-dumb gap is the only graph that's even more disproportional than the income gap.

The people who know things in their fields, know a hell of lot.

Dan8267 says

The people who know things in their fields, know a hell of lot.

I have met with PHDs who choose to remain ignorant of standards in other fields.

Why shouldn't I believe everything found on the web ? Do humans lean to the excitement born from sales tactics ?

NEW & IMPROVED "SMART GLASSES" ALLOW YOU TO SEE & KNOW EVERYTHING !!

A couple facts that prove slanted marketing (much on the internet) can influence our decisions.

#1. ALL gasolines are identical. Shell, Mobil, Exxon, etc. may add some elements.
#2. Synthetic oil does not congeal below 0 centigrade. That is it's ONLY benefit.
#3. Gubmint can NOT fix real estate prices.

No wonder humans wish to remain ignorant. 90% of what we see & hear is B.S., usually to benefit the profiteer. " I will dispose of your excess unwanted gold, just for your benefit " !

@Xenogear

"The question is biased.
It wants people to answer 'we need to have a better education system.'
However the correct answer is that 'Because a fifth of Americans don't have an US passport' or "Knowing where US is is an useless information'"

Lol.

Actually the geography facts per see aren't necessary for everyone to know in detail, but this lack of knowledge is a barometer of other ignorance of more important things...

It is embarrassing when I meet Europeans (and other non-Americans) who know more about the US than many Americans do (about their own country).

TMAC54 says

Dan8267 says

The people who know things in their fields, know a hell of lot.

I have met with PHDs who choose to remain ignorant of standards in other fields.

I worked with an engineering PHD who informed me that contact with iron would stop someone from having a seizure. We had a coworker who suffered from seizures. He advised me to use my keys -- which do not contain actual "iron" -- as "first aid" to stop a seizure.

I am envisioning Moe Hittin Curly in the head with IRON objects.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rtg-2XVff4I
I was witness to a PHD, who had signed a sales agreement on almost 100 acres, later decided he did not care for the buyers dialect and spent almost a hundred grand in legal costs, attempting to cancel the sale.
He just ignored counsel on contractual law.
I would nickname that highly educated individual as Curly, but would not want to offend my favorite stooge.

Well ...perhaps not...

The Information Age has delivered what it promised. Information can be copied, stored, transmitted, and organized essentially for free. The entire knowledge of mankind is at your fingertips. Whether or not the unwashed masses actually make use of this or sit on their asses watching Honey Boo Boo is another matter.

I am a strong believer in the smart-dumb gap. We all know that the rich-poor gap is wider than it's ever been, but so is the smart-dumb gap. Americans, on average, are dumber than ever. However, those Americans who are smart, are smarter than ever as well.

Why do I get the impression that the 21% who believe in witches are the same 21% that think the sun revolves around the Earth? Oh yeah, because they are idiots.

Worst still, 41% still think Saddam was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Jesus Christ! Knowing shit like this actually matters. It affects who people vote for and whether or not we hold politicians accountable.