patrick.net

I expect hypermiling will rise in search term rankings again.

Thanks! ...starting with me.

I found this link:
http://www.hypermiling.com/

What amuses me is the number of people complaining about Obama and the high price of gas, and yet they many are driving SUVs or pickup trucks (alone) getting under 20MPG.

Despite high gas prices, gas mileage still isn't fashionable. Most of the 2 door hatchback econoboxes of the post gas crisis era were at least as fuel efficient as the 4 door bloatmobiles so popular today.

Here's a guy who got 99.7 mpg with a modified Geo Metro on an economy run:

http://www.metrompg.com/

I had a Metro. Best car I ever owned.

American in Japan says

What amuses me is the number of people complaining about Obama and the high price of gas, and yet they many are driving SUVs or pickup trucks (alone) getting under 20MPG.

But that's still not 8mpg.

In the 80s-90s we were getting better MPG on average.
I don't think we are going to get anywhere or move in any direction. Until the lying, manipulation, price fixing, while pushing inferior alternatives that aren't even optimal ready, stops.

You feed most Americans a huge line of Bullshit about Global warming, and Peak Oil, then present a $40,000 AMC Pacer for an alternative, even with a straight face. You're going to be told to go Fuck your self and probably get your big toe ran over by the Monster Truck as your subject drives away.

I picked up an UltraGauge recently. Nifty little widget that displays all kinds of engine data. One of it's simpler features is instant MPG readings, which my 1997 Camry does not have any sort of fuel consumption display.

http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm

Every once in a while I look at the Ultragauge and go WHOA... 13 MPG right here maybe I should modify my driving habits a bit and see if I can do better. I'm not at all doing it in a way to endanger or inconvenience anyone, but if there's nobody behind me now I'll coast up to a red light trying to time it so it turns green before I get there and I don't have to brake. Not "hypermiling" really but I have improved my MPG figures with very modest changes that nobody would notice.

A far bigger factor is just that I don't commute by car, it's for trips and shopping. There is some amount of running around town though to doctors office or whatever that drags down MPG.

I've been keeping a "car book" for every car I've owned. My Dad did this since he was a kid, and schooled me to, for 3 reasons.

1) To record all service events for reference, so you go in for service and some weasel says your water pump is worn out and old, I can quickly say NUHUH replaced 32,000 miles ago.
2) If there's an engine problem it may be apparent from decreasing MPG.
3) As part of a budget strategy to keep track of where your money goes

I intermittently transfer this data to a spreadsheet and run summaries. Pulled up most recent spreadsheet:

start miles 205251
end miles 212707
total miles 7456
total cost $869.13
gallons used 269.19
start date 5/23/2010
end date 4/9/2011
years covered 1
months covered 11
days covered 321

MPG 27.69790854
$/mile $0.116568
$/month $79.01
$/day $2.71
miles/month 677.8181818
miles/day 23.22741433

P.S. Over that period, the average price of gas works out to $3.23 per gallon for me.

I rented a car this past weekend. I got a free upgrade to a Chevy Impala. What a piece of crap.

I went through a full tank of gas and then some. And that was mostly nighway driving.

If the MPG in the Honda Civic HX goes below 30 MPG, I figure there must be something wrong with the car.

American in Japan says

According to some rumors, the technology is out there, but the oil companies keep buying up the patents for such systems. I am not sure if I believe the rumors, but I think that with more research automobles should be able to get this mileage.

I've been reading these rumors for 50 years and I'm sure they go back to the invention of the auto, but no one ever comes up with an actual example. Pretty amazing that no one can prove it in the internet era. I've also read plenty of rumors that aliens have landed.

You can have a 100 mpg car right now. You just can't have a practical, affordable car that get 100mpg in any kind of realistic day to day driving (as opposed to very contrived fuel economy driving that will get you quickly shot by one of your frustrated fellow drivers stuck behind you). As Popular Science points out, you must either use very expensive materials to get the weight down or have a very tiny car with a very tiny engine. No one is going to be making a 100 mpg car with air conditioning, tons of options, carries 8 people and tows a boat anytime soon.

If you want to min out your cost of driving go find an old rabbit diesel. Mine got 50mpg and they currently sell for a couple hundred bucks if you find one.

American in Japan says

What amuses me is the number of people complaining about Obama and the high price of gas

The price of gas has at least doubled since Obama took office, and Obama won't allow drilling in areas where we have lots of oil. I also do not understand people who drive gas guzzlers and them complain about the price of gas. I'd say the same about people who heat their homes with fuel oil.

I drive a Ford Escort, and I hate it that all these other people are wasting so much gas and driving up prices for everyone else too.

bob2356 says

I’ve been reading these rumors for 50 years and I’m sure they go back to the invention of the auto, but no one ever comes up with an actual example. Pretty amazing that no one can prove it in the internet era. I’ve also read plenty of rumors that aliens have landed.
You can have a 100 mpg car right now. You just can’t have a practical, affordable car that get 100mpg in any kind of realistic day to day driving (as opposed to very contrived fuel economy driving that will get you quickly shot by one of your frustrated fellow drivers stuck behind you). As Popular Science points out, you must either use very expensive materials to get the weight down or have a very tiny car with a very tiny engine. No one is going to be making a 100 mpg car with air conditioning, tons of options, carries 8 people and tows a boat anytime soon.

I agree. You will see oil from alge mass produced before you will (potentially) see cars with ~100MPG ratings in serious numbers.

Tenouncetrout says

In the 80s-90s we were getting better MPG on average.

Adn the automakers still aren't getting it. I don't see one car for the US market that has a 0-60 > 10 seconds (although a 0-60 > 12 seconds would be better) and doesn't have a lot of extra options as standard as well.

zzyzzx says

The price of gas has at least doubled since Obama took office, and Obama won’t allow drilling in areas where we have lots of oil.

This is not the thread for "why is price going up?". How much oil is in those areas, and how much we consume per year is a simple comparison that reminds me of people who eat their seed corn.

I hadn't thought about the VW Rabbit in years. Once upon a time I wanted a VW Cabriolet diesel. Maybe I'll take a look around and see about a fixer-upper, I have never owned a convertible.

C'mon guys... the technology for vastly improved mileage and low emissions vehicles has been around for AGES!

As well as the notion of carpooling, apparently...

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Cars don’t need half the horsepower that is considered standard these days.

This may be true AF, but be planful for the future... after all, not all pursuing cannibal anarchists will be shackled to the fully-loaded minivans of their former lives.

Tenouncetrout says

In the 80s-90s we were getting better MPG on average.

You have to be careful when comparing quoted MPGs from the 80's to now. It's apples to oranges because the way the automakers were allowed to measure them has changed substantially...

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

I’ve got a blueprint of my Impreza that would allow me to pull the back doors and set up Galting guns on mounts bolted to the floor.

Sweet setup...

I have here an artists rendering of AF with his car (and dog), created after my time traveling future self described the wasteland of 20 years from now:

Vicente says

I have here an artists rendering of AF with his car (and dog), created after my time traveling future self described it to me as Amerika exists 20 years from now:

Hey, I heard that v8/blower combo will be standard on Imprezas starting next year... gotta get me one.

zzyzzx says

Adn the automakers still aren’t getting it. I don’t see one car for the US market that has a 0-60 > 10 seconds (although a 0-60 > 12 seconds would be better) and doesn’t have a lot of extra options as standard as well.

Sure they get it. Cars are a fashion statement and sensible cars are sooooo last generation.

We are currently in the automotive era of padded shoulders and wide lapels.

Once again this sort of thread pops up, that makes me think about EV. Maybe take an old Geo Metro LSI convertible, strip out all the ICE stuff, and put in an EV conversion kit. The Metro LSI looks like a fun little toy car and with a high-torque electric motor ought to accelerate like a rocket. Hmmm..... needs a roll bar though.

Battery storage space and weight might be an issue with such a small car, particularly for lead-acid batteries.

Just curious, do you know if Ni-H, and Ni-metal-H batteries are available for such applications? They should be lighter than lead-acid. And even though they would be heavier than Li batteries, they would probably be cheaper. Also, as far as I understand, metal-hydride batteries are much more robust than Li batteries and last FAR longer.

Nissan is releasing a battery that will last a whole weekend of driving on a charge.

We've been stroking the subsidy lobby, glad handing the speculators and imposing oppressive taxes and burdensome expenses on those that can lest afford it. While the Peak Oil Greenie Bastards are just taking the money laughing all the way to the bank.

Those little slant eyed fuckers(that every one loves to bitch for succeeding so well), are just doing it.
No political grand standing, no pipe dreams and smoke and mirrors, not even stealing designs from us. That's how pathetic we've gotten.

@Cook County resident

"Despite high gas prices, gas mileage still isn’t fashionable."

LoL! Well, perhaps so...but I don't have much sympathy for someone complaining about high gasoline prices, who drives a vehicle getting 14mpg (especially if they generally are the only one in the vehicle).

>You have to be careful when comparing quoted MPGs from the 80’s to now. It’s apples to oranges because the way the automakers were allowed to measure them has changed substantially.

Curious how they measure it now compared to then...thanks in advance.

Nobody else able to share stats about their gas cost/usage?

@terri, I was thinking of cheap lead batteries for running around town not long range. A fun go-cart that's street legal if you will. 40-60 miles would be fine as long as when I twisted it's tail it would JUMP.

American in Japan says

>You have to be careful when comparing quoted MPGs from the 80’s to now. It’s apples to oranges because the way the automakers were allowed to measure them has changed substantially.
Curious how they measure it now compared to then…thanks in advance.

Fueleconomy.gov says:

EPA has changed the way it estimates MPG.

Starting in model year 2008, estimates reflect the effects of

* Faster speeds & acceleration
* Air conditioner use
* Colder outside temperatures

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml

The website also has comparisons for vehicles going back to 1985:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

Even with the corrected numbers, about half of the best EPA gas mileage cars are pre-Y2K:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/topten.jsp

Vicente says

I was thinking of cheap lead batteries for running around town not long range. A fun go-cart that’s street legal if you will. 40-60 miles would be fine as long as when I twisted it’s tail it would JUMP.

As far as I understand, those electric motors are pretty torquey, so you'd probably be in fine shape with your weekend runabout. That said, and more to the point of the post, how about a home-built hybrid? Last time I checked there were no ready-made retrofit kits out there so it would be a total DIY.

Everyone,

PLEASE do not let headlines such as

How to Build a 100 Mile-Per-Gallon Car ... Right Now - Popular Mechanics

lull anyone into a false sense that the problem of automotive energy consumption is SOLVED. It is not. If the fleet average in 2011 was 100 MPG then we would have made great strides. But at the rate progress is taking place it won't even be 100 MPG in 2020. Maybe in 2040 if we are lucky.

2040 IS TOO LATE.

We need to change what cars we manufacture and how we drive NOW. Please do not be complacent. If you buy a new car in 2011 and it is not already getting 50 MPG you are NOT DOING YOUR PART.

Do not think that "the problem will be solved in the future". Do not wait until gas is $10/gallon or $20/gallon. Make the change NOW.

I'm sorry for screaming but the public in the USA is getting lulled into false complacency. Do it NOW.

I think this week on NOVA (PBS TV program) there was another one of those pie-in-the-sky technology-will-save-us futuristic car programs. The problem is that these futuristic cars are NOT in mass production now, and in any case many of them are completely unpractical.

Right now the only cars worth buying on the US market are

Toyota Prius
VW Jetta TDI (clean diesel)
Audi A3 TDI (also clean diesel)
MAYBE a Nissan Leaf
MAYBE Ford Fusion Hybrid
Forget about the idiotic Tesla Roadster
Forget about the 37MPG (really!!) stupid-as-only-GM-can-be Chevy Volt

Anything else and you are not doing enough. Call me whatever you want, but this is the truth. And yes, your grandchildren will thank me.

Vicente says

http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm

Neat gadget. How thick is the cable to your OBDII connector, and how do you route the cable to it through your car? Or is this a wireless+dongle kind of setup?
In my car the OBDII connector is near the pedals. not a nice place to route a cable from.

The reason I ask about thickness is that the cables on OBDII diagnostic tools are seriously fat.

Maybe I should just RTFM.

Update: There is a photo under the "buy" link on the web site. Cable is not too terrible.

I also see that a google search of "ODBII trip computer" finds a number of manufacturers. I think soon we can get these for $30-40.

terriDeaner says

C’mon guys… the technology for vastly improved mileage and low emissions vehicles has been around for AGES!

As well as the notion of carpooling, apparently…

Obligatory:

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Cars don’t need half the horsepower that is considered standard these days.

Exactly what I was trying to say! Engine sizes are at least 50% more than what they should be. It's as if every new car is designed to maximize opportunities for speeding tickets.

justme says

Neat gadget. How thick is the cable to your OBDII connector, and how do you route the cable to it through your car? Or is this a wireless+dongle kind of setup?

In my car the OBDII connector is near the pedals. not a nice place to route a cable from.
The reason I ask about thickness is that the cables on OBDII diagnostic tools are seriously fat.

Actually it's not terribly thick. I didn't measure it. The connector is right-angle. It routes for me cleanly to the left behind a panel, and I have the gauge on the left side of dash near my driver-side mirror. I'll go take a picture. For ~$60 it's the best money I've spent on widgetry in a while. Oh yeah it will also read off the error codes too, so I no no longer need my separate code reader. It will display multiple pages of data either by manual scroll or timed. You can customize what you want shown (not enough space for all sensors) and I'm still tinkering with my output setup need to put in O2 sensors and take off "service distance" and other stuff I don't care about seeing.

Minor gripe, there is a rebate but they make you work for it. You have to hook up your UltraGauge and write down all the engine-sensor codes it finds which in my car is 34 of them. During the rebate form entry you have to tick off checkboxes "A1 B3 C0...." etc. They want to find out what sensors are in EVERY car for their support list and this is their way of gathering them by crowd-sourcing. The data in their support table for 1997 Camry LE 2.2L is from my car :D

Here it's hard to tell but just above the accelerator linkage is the grey nub of the right-angle ODBII connector. The wire exits to the right is a darker black almost invisible here, and I go up and hook it over something under the dash then back over to the left. The ODBII connector on this car by the way has a bracket holding it which you can unscrew and remount so it's flat which would make it more unobtrusive but I didn't feel the need to do that, it's low-profile enough for me already.

And here's how I brought the wire up, cheesy but it works fine. I didn't take off any panels, just hooked it behind panel edges and twist-tied the excess and tucked that away. Other people find blank spots in their dash and install it permanently.

It motivated me to experiment a little. Yesterday I emptied all the excess items out of my car which was a lot more weight than I thought. Toolkit, oil can, battery pack, etc. Even took out the spare and the jack. I have a full-sized spare which is heavier than the standard donut. For local driving I have AAA and brand new Michelins so not worried about it. For trips I'd put the spare and tools back obviously. Curious to see if weight reduction makes any diff I can measure.

Unfortunately the 1997 Camry LE is not the most featureful of cars. It uses MAP instead of MAF. So long-term MPG averages I get out of it aren't dead-on, can be 2-4 MPG off. But the instant figure is most useful tool for establishing the "trend" if you will of my driving style. The lack of a fuel tank sensor in this Camry means it doesn't know the actual state of the fuel tank, but as long as every time I fill it up I hold down the "up-arrow" key for some seconds to register the fill it can do a decent job of tracking things.

If you wanted good MPG, why did you buy a Camry?

zzyzzx says

If you wanted good MPG, why did you buy a Camry?

YOU try fitting a large child seat for a 3.5 year old in the back of a Metro or a Yaris.

We don't always get to choose purely for MPG. Fact is a mid-sized sedan is the family car we could agree on, and it's been exceedingly reliable. I compensate for it's moderate MPG by not driving it much and stretching it where I can. I bought this in 2003 and will run it out to 300K, it's a balance of money with minimum criteria and MPG. City driving is a lesser component for me than most since I live near work and most days bike there, so there's not as much pull for a hybrid and consequent "I don't know how to service that" complexity.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Practical idea: America could up its gas mileage instantly by throwing away needless doors and trunk hoods and unused seats.

Really need more 2 door cars and less 4 door cars. Everything else being equal, the 2 door car would weight less.

Vicente says

YOU try fitting a large child seat for a 3.5 year old in the back of a Metro or a Yaris.

Won't it fit in the trunk?

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

AND anyone riding shotgun could stand while your driving and give them better visibility when shooting at on road and off road adversaries.

A careless missile launch could be.... bad... for your hapless sidekick.

Average distance traveled per year: 13,476 miles

From here: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

I’m at 55% of that figure now, projecting out to a full year puts me at 8,748 miles or 63%. So that's about 170 gallons of gas I have *not* burned by not driving everywhere.

Convince people to modify their lifestyle to reduce distance travelled per year by car by 30+% and voila you’ll have the instant effect of a rather difficult leap in MPG.

Gio metro is what? 1.2L engine?

Toyota Yaris? Honda Fit? Still too big.

An image I come across the web, and this shit is actual car running on japanese roads.

American in Japan, I am sure you saw this car. Please tell me the name of this one.

seaside says

Gio metro is what? 1.2L engine?

That would be about right for an average new car! My 1995 Escort has a 1.9L engine, and I'm guessing that a 1.2L engine built today would have the same amount of power as my 1995 1.9L, and with much greater gas mileage. For some reason automakers won't make such a car.