patrick.net

HousingWatcher says

1. Republicans don't want to do anything that will improve the economy since that will help Obama get re-elected. If he is re-elected, they will refuse to do anything that coudl remotely improve it during his 2nd term.

The Democrats are Bragging about the sheer numbers of people on Welfare, who's FOOLING who?

HousingWatcher says

3. Immigration: Each month, more people immigrate and come to the U.S on work visas than the number of new jobs that are created monthly. So even if we see an increase of jobs, when accounting for population growth, we actually lost jobs.

Actually the number is going down, there was just a report yesterday circulating around the internet, we're experiencing a neg population year over year.

I know countless people that have been here illegally that I've known since the late 80's that went back to their country on their own accord. Especially Peruvians, Peru experienced 30% growth in the last 5 years. Work has never been easier to find there, and if you want to start a business, just hang a sign on the door of your house. No license, certs, and regulation like here in the states.

HousingWatcher says

4. Austerity: We are now starting to see spending get cut singificantly and this will obvivously kill jobs... not just public sector jobs, but private sector ones too.

If our country's economic prosperity DEPENDS on Government programs, then we should not expect any different outcome than the Soviet Union.

HousingWatcher says

5. Hosuing: Until the housing market improves, the oerall economy will not. The two are tied together. Currently, all govt. eforts to stimulate the housing market have failed.

Housing is going to do what housing is going to do, until the Lemmings gets bored.

What is hindering growth through out the world is America's unwillingness to not necessarily regulate Commodities, but not enforcing antitrust laws already there.

HousingWatcher says

6. The next generation of workers are graduating from college with unsustainable amounts of student debt that will strangle them for decades to come.

This is more a problem of the Young generation expecting a certificate to be a proxy of hard work, sticktoitniveness and perseverance. This is not only a problem of College grads but youngsters across all socioeconomic boundaries. They are not much different than their parents that say housing is too expensive, because they can't afford to live next door to Nancy Pelosi.

I found an image of ToT:

For my little part, I agree with where you're going on these points.

The collapse of the Soviet Union went a lot smoother than it will for the US.

For one thing, most Soviet workers had gardens in the parks and outskirts of the city, and many kept hens and ducks. For all their talk about frontiersmen and self-sufficiency, most Americans couldn't bake a loaf of bread from scratch, would be petrified to be seen in public wearing patched jeans, etc..

In the United States, the code police fine people for having Square Foot Gardens on their front lawn. "Unslightly" says the Realtor-dominated city council.

Your base assumptions are wrong. The economy does not need improving as I am doing just fine.

The mass crushing throngs of America spend far too much time worrying about politics and the economy. What they need to worry about is working harder and complaining less. I think this country could use a good famine. My Orientals working in China don't whine as much as the Americans. The only great thing about America is that all the businesses appear to be run by circus freaks. It is highly entertaining watching the Bearded Lady launder my clothes and a Dwarf serve me a ham sandwich. When I picked up my newest Maybach, the valet had his head wrapped like he just returned from the Sahara. I asked him where he kept his Genie!

American servants are highly entertaining when they are not running their mouths.

Huntington my friend,

Your image of a dwarf serving a ham sandwich truly reminds me of the royal courts of olden times. Are you of real noble blood yourself?

By the way image search for "dwarf sandwich" shows surprisingly few dwarves. This was in the first hits I have no idea why:

Then I got distracted thinking about Jane Fonda jumping in my lap....

What was I talking about?

HousingWatcher says

Despite all the "efforts" to improve the economy, I strongly beleive it will not anytime in the near future for several reasons:

NEVER = "anytime in the near future" ?

Hyperbole isn't helping.

HousingWatcher says

1. Republicans don't want to do anything that will improve the economy since that will help Obama get re-elected. If he is re-elected, they will refuse to do anything that coudl remotely improve it during his 2nd term.

Well it's a good thing that Obama isn't the only one up for re election, is it?

Barring massive changes in policy, in an advanced society government policy has little real impact on the overall economy. The economy will improve when people start buying things, period.

HousingWatcher says

2. Jobs are being outsourced at an alarming rate and they are NEVER coming back.

They're being done by robots, and it's happened before. THOSE jobs aren't "coming back", but that doesn't mean that entirely new jobs won't be created. 100 years ago there was no such thing as a software engineer, user experience designer, or home audio equipment installer. Factory labor was the backbone of society for a relatively small period in human history.

HousingWatcher says

3. Immigration: Each month, more people immigrate and come to the U.S on work visas than the number of new jobs that are created monthly. So even if we see an increase of jobs, when accounting for population growth, we actually lost jobs.

...but population growth is actually essential to long term economic health. More people = more consumers.

HousingWatcher says

3. Corporations want the economy to stay weak since it ensures they have a large pool of cheap labor. If the economy improves, labor costs increase.

This is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. Absolutely no company in the business of selling things wants the economy to stay weak. They may want a strong or weak dollar, they may want lower taxes, they may want some specific aspect of the economy to change, but they DO NOT WANT a poor economy in general. The only companies that hope for that are repo men and payday loan companies.

HousingWatcher says

4. Austerity: We are now starting to see spending get cut singificantly and this will obvivously kill jobs... not just public sector jobs, but private sector ones too.

"Now starting"? Consumer spending and corporate spending, far larger than government spending, fell off a cliff years ago and never came back. Encouraging people and companies to spend money is the only way out. People don't have money, so that's not going to work, but corporations do.

(the best thing we could do to encourage corporations to spend right now would probably be to have a one-time tax holiday on repatriated foreign profits. When you hear that Apple has $80B in the bank, this is why -- it's not in the U.S.)

HousingWatcher says

5. Hosuing: Until the housing market improves, the oerall economy will not. The two are tied together. Currently, all govt. eforts to stimulate the housing market have failed.

They're not tied together any more than any other aspect of the economy. A depressed housing market could mean lower housing costs, which would mean more discretionary income.

HousingWatcher says

6. The next generation of workers are graduating from college with unsustainable amounts of student debt that will strangle them for decades to come.

I doubt it. The ones who get good jobs will have little trouble, the ones who don't will probably wind up declaring bankruptcy.

I was referring to austerity by the federal govt... yes, I know consumers and corporatios started their austerity a long time ago.

And student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.

When was the last time we had falling home prices AND a strong economy at the same time?

I don't think #3 is so stupid. Ever notice that CEOS and the US Chamber of Commerce are always saying that you should not raise taxes in the middle of a recession? If there is no more recesison, then they can't use that line anymore and won't be able to justify keeping taxes low. Corporations benefit from the recession because labor is cheaper, they can get more productivity out of their current workers, and the pool of workers to choose from is larger than ever. Look at all of the companies that are highly profitable, yet they are laying workers off.

The corporations might benefit short-term from not raising taxes and a larger labor pool, but when it comes time to actually sell their products they are screwed. It works for companies that sell necessities but not so much for any corporation in the business of selling luxury-type items, which are a large percentage of American companies. For years they got by because Americans bought those items on credit. With little available borrowing and no jobs, sales of luxury items must decrease.

Actually, luxury retailers are doing quite well. The fact is that countless companies are benefiting from the recession and the massive wealth inequality it has brought.

www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1343048

In my area, the luxury retailers are doing well. The Mercedes dealership? They just moved into a new building that is larger than their old location. The used car dealerships? A lot of them are gone... their storefronts still vacant.

I also should have added that corporations like a weak economy since it drives their competitors out of business. If your Goldman Sachs, Bed Bath & Beyond, or Barnes & Noble, then this recession has helped you a lot since all 3 of these companies lost their major competitors.

Two of those companies are on the verge of bankruptcy.

Argument is still stupid

1) Welfare and bad economy is Democrats haven. Where would they be if no one needed them? Democrats thrive in poverty.

4) Tot said it best. If we act like Soviet union with entitlements and spending we'll achieve the same result.

5) Nation should not and cannot be ran by a ponzi scheme in housing. The era of free money for having a pulse is over, the game is up.

6) It is a conscious choice to go into debt this way you know. Is anyone holding a gun to their head telling them to go into massive debt to graduate from the party school of their choice? Not everyone is equal, not everyone is special, and not every college is for everyone.

Some should probably start with a community college, it's still $25/unit, a homeless man can afford that without a credit card.

Kevin says

HousingWatcher says

5. Hosuing: Until the housing market improves, the oerall economy will not. The two are tied together. Currently, all govt. eforts to stimulate the housing market have failed.

They're not tied together any more than any other aspect of the economy. A depressed housing market could mean lower housing costs, which would mean more discretionary income.

Housing is where the buck STARTS for the majority of industry.
The equity we once enjoyed from the appreciation of real property, provided profit for BANKS (dynamically), Home Improvement entities, the Tourism trade, Automotive, Marine & Aviation industries, Gaming, Logistics including Railways, Mining of Gold & Diamonds etc., Sports & Leisure Infrastructure, Software & Computer Services, even pertaining to establishing small Business to Business (B2B).
The introduction of the info age dispersed more cash than ALL other inventions combined. The more you make the more we spent on housing. The maturation of I.T. has reduced investments and cash flow.
Housing is the ONLY reason for our snails paced global economic REAPPRAISAL.
Gubmint has an honorable obligation to hire the handicapped. We demand they protect us from ourselves, causing stagnation.
Maybe the terrorists had it right ?

IMO the economy will eventually ramp back up, however, it will not be the economy we Americans have known and been blessed by for years and years. Due to technology and globalization there is much less work out there than there was 50 y.a. For a large portion of our population full-time work at one company for the long term is definitely a thing of the past. Two or more jobs will be the norm, although this situation won't even promise "full-time" work. For me, this is why it's important for healthcare to be tied to the person, rather than to some employer. It seems that this new economic paradigm almost demands it.

Like every other major work/agricultural/life shift that humanity has experienced, this scenario is not all bad. It now may be the time for the new paradigm that we have been working so hard to achieve for years; working less because we can, due to depending on technology more and therefore having more leisure time for education, charitable activities, or whatever it is you consider that makes life worth living.

Also, I would really like to see humans expand their explorations of the solar system. Pioneering is generally a good way of utilizing human capital and as I see it we need to invest more into space exploration. I would rather explore space than be cannon fodder any day.

shrekgrinch says

The only thing that isn't unfounded blather on there are the last two points.

you forgot to include your post.