patrick.net

Having been through some tough times myself, but not right now, I think you can glean some good technical advice from the responses here about dealing with the bank.
Overall, the question is whether you like where you are, and whether it will be useful to you in the future to stay there. Can you grow food at that house? If you grow food, will the neighbors steal it? Can you cooperate with the neighbors to grow food or provide security/local bartering?
Or, is your entire life schematic drawn on the back of the Paper Money System? How do you plan on riding the Descent of this empire from its heyday of cheap resources? There is not going to be any 'recovery' which puts our system of systems back where it was 20 years ago. How does that match your view of your predicament? Is the negotiation with the bank simply a temporary measure until the "economy recovers", or is it part of a plan to reduce your dependence on non-local resources?

abhijitk says

What does NOD mean?

Notice of Default.

Thats when a bank officially notifies the person and that the person is behind on payments. They file it with the county too a few weeks earlier, it's public record.

This process isn't very fast now. Usually it takes 6 month (sometimes a year or more) for the next notice to show up. Next one is the notice of trustee sale. My aunt received her notice of trustee sale almost 2 years after NOD. (Good way to save money while the structure is foreclosing, it's 0 cost to live there for 2 years got her down payment back).

There are all sorts of ways to extend this, since banks aren't all that interested in foreclosing and maintaining the empty building. It's worth nothing to them, just a huge liability, unless there is someone who will pay for it.

A question I have: If you do a loan mod, is it a new loan, or a continuation of the old loan. The issue I have is: "Does the modified loan become recourse, or does it stay non-recourse purchase money?"

mark.anania1 says

A question I have: If you do a loan mod, is it a new loan, or a continuation of the old loan. The issue I have is: "Does the modified loan become recourse, or does it stay non-recourse purchase money?"

depends on the state laws. it is a new loan since it is a new contract, but it doesn't necessarily become recourse.

How about here in California?

mark.anania1 says

How about here in California?

CA is a non recourse state.

There is a one-action rule, but I don't know how it applies in these situations. I'd assume it is not applicable. Maybe someone who has ran into it can tell more:
http://www.oneactionrule.com/

My input is that if you can't afford the place get out and let the bank sell it to someone who can.

Go to www.livinglies.wordpress.com and read, read, read. There is probably fraud in your mortgage and if there is your servicer has no right to foreclose on you. The lawyers who have been trying to foreclose on us for 2.5 years are being investigated for fraud. The banks are in no hurry to foreclose because of the huge shadow inventory which is losing value every day. Do not sign anything until you are sure your title is not clouded. Do not give them any money. Save it. Live rent free. Unfortunately only about 9% of the population knows this and the banks are getting away with murder!

However, at least this time I have a reduction in income! Maybe they would modify?
CL, I may have missed a post or two by you. What happened on the income side? Were you or your wife laid off?

EBGuy, was about to ask the same thing. All the posts he's made in the past (that I've read, or can find right now) said that he could in fact pay, but didn't want to. Unless something happened recently that I wasn't aware of, the banks will know that he is strategically defaulting. If that's the case, then whether that will come back to bite him in the ass or not remains to be seen.

Yes. The wife is no longer employed, although she didn't make the bulk of our income we're down by a third maybe.

What do I win? :)

(RE: fantasy stories, the REAL Noah tale is much funnier--like when he drunkenly drops trou in front of his kids!)

well you can either try to loan mod, or you can try to squat for a year or two rent free.

CL says

wife is no longer employed

If she quit rather than being laid off or fired, you're unlikely to get a loan mod. Also, the banks are aware that defaulters and help-seeking clients are trying to "play down" their available resources/income. Just an FYI since you've been planning for this for a while.

Gee, I wish I could live rent free. However, I didn't take on a bloated mortgage for an overvalued hovel or refi like my neighbors who took out seconds and equity lines of credit to buy new cars, send their children to private school, and fly to the Hawaii very summer.

Instead, I rented and scratched and clawed -- trying to save.

Now, banks are screwing me by not kicking squatters out and putting those homes up for sale a more sane price.

FortWayne says

or you can try to squat for a year or two rent free.

the squatting for a year thing usually happens BEFORE the notice of default. If they've filed an NOD i think he should be looking for a new place to live. like now.

Katy Perry says

Sorry to hear that CL drag it out if you can maybe. Maybe the F'd up the original lone??

what state are you in CA?

what city are you?

what kind of hood? bet it's a nice one for the NOD to come so fast.

I was under the theory that the NOD's come faster in the "fortress" areas?

you're going to be fine,.. you made it this far.

wishful thinking bs

Why did you get to this point? Are you one of those persons who don't budget, save money, or just being a "cara de pau".

toothfairy says

FortWayne says

or you can try to squat for a year or two rent free.

the squatting for a year thing usually happens BEFORE the notice of default. If they've filed an NOD i think he should be looking for a new place to live. like now.

my aunt received a notice of trustee sale a year after the NOD.
and almost another year later they finally got eviction notice to move out.

I think new info is great. It's changeing daily. These type of posts will help countless others make better future choices.
thanks CL hang in there. it was all BS anyways man. If you really own they can't take it away.
some people still think they own thier home.

chip_designer says

Why did you get to this point? Are you one of those persons who don't budget, save money, or just being a "cara de pau".

Go through his past posts and threads. He's been planning on walking away ever since he realized he couldn't turn out a quick profit and hit up the ATM. Question is whether there have been extenuating circumstances that happened since, like the implied loss of income mentioned above (first I've heard of it), and whether the bank has figured out the scam if there is a scam (like "losing" income, temporarily, to fake hardship).

klarek says

Go through his past posts and threads. He's been planning on walking away ever since he realized he couldn't turn out a quick profit and hit up the ATM. Question is whether there have been extenuating circumstances that happened since, like the implied loss of income mentioned above (first I've heard of it), and whether the bank has figured out the scam if there is a scam (like "losing" income, temporarily, to fake hardship).

Obama will save all of these wonderful people by giving them money from the rest of us greedy lazy working taxpayers.

klarek says

chip_designer says

Why did you get to this point? Are you one of those persons who don't budget, save money, or just being a "cara de pau".

Go through his past posts and threads. He's been planning on walking away ever since he realized he couldn't turn out a quick profit and hit up the ATM. Question is whether there have been extenuating circumstances that happened since, like the implied loss of income mentioned above (first I've heard of it), and whether the bank has figured out the scam if there is a scam (like "losing" income, temporarily, to fake hardship).

You usually err when you ascribe intent, although as always, I welcome your input.

No, there is a real loss of income-luckily not on my side. My 5 year HELOC matured, and instead of lowering my rate they increased it to 9% despite 800 credit. As if I were an idiot or if they intended to drive me out.

Regardless, my question was about completing the Loanmod application. If you want to start a thread where you vilify someone, start your own! :)

Now, should I fill out the documents or is there a risk I'm not aware of?

CL says

If you want to start a thread where you vilify someone, start your own!

Actually, I went through a whole bunch of your posts. Everything from "we can afford it but don't want to pay it" to "the game was rigged against me" to "why should I bear the burden of the sins of others", there's been a continual lack of culpability on your part and a clear desire to dump your bad gamble on others. All of a sudden the story has changed into "we really can't afford this house", which could very well be a coincidence since that's a far more forgivable way of defaulting than what you were originally planning to do. Am I being unfair by asking if this is all a coincidence? Aren't I doing you a favor by pointing out that your lender might very well have algorithms in their system to filter out the honest defaulters and flag those who are faking hardships? Just trying to give you a heads-up.

I'm not vilifying you, I just thought that since there are a handful of honest lurkers and posters here who want to know what happened that you could have clarified this way up above.

CL says

Now, should I fill out the documents or is there a risk I'm not aware of?

there isn't a risk as far as I can tell. I think there are strings attached, such as if you sell than portion of the house goes to the feds. But I don't know how it all works. You can probably call the bank and find out more about the loan mod.

They don't want your house, they prefer you keep paying them their debt-based racket.

E-man says

You have to give the poster the benefit of the doubt. Vilifying someone doesn't add much to a discussion, and it turns every post into a pissing match.

I'm not vilifying him, I'm asking him, and he's being a bit cryptic about what's going on. He went from "this is my situation, this is what I plan (or want) to do" a mere nine months ago to this, where he apparently followed through with his plan and it just-so-happens that his wife lost her job.

The benefit of doubt would be more easily earned if he didn't seem to have as many similar characteristics as a strategic defaulter: great credit, can afford the place, bought at the peak, bitter that he can't profit, etc.

Also re-read my posts above. I was warning him that this pattern is well-known by the lenders and that this may come back to bite him some day. Trying to feign hardship won't necessarily fool them. I could go on leave without pay tomorrow. Notice that he's being a bit vague about what happened?

Not that I really care what he does or why, but he's been asking for advice, so I'm just giving him a warning that his explanation/circumstance is a bit shady. Read up on the characteristics of a strategic defaulter, it's him to a T.

{insert ubiquitous pissing match retorts here}

All: thanks for the info, (even you, Klarek. I don't mind your contrarian views, especially when the venom is reduced. Don't think I haven't noticed that it has!)

They've also assigned a single individual to handle me, to whom I'll reach out if nobody says otherwise. That alone will be a welcome change, since the batch of fools I've dealt with over the last year or so seem to all be low-level folks without sufficient authority or the proper vantage point. At least now I'll only have one idiot to talk to!