patrick.net

depends, are you trying to stay in that house? Or just want to drag the process out for a while.

CA has government sponsored loan mod program, so they do reduce how much you'll have to pay, but I think it comes with strings attached. I don't know all the details though, it's only what I've read on the forum.

It sound like theyve sped up the process. how long has it been since you stopped paying?

probably no chance the loan mod will go through and the package is probably a stealth way to collect your financial information to determine whether or not they will sue.
I think you may be f-ed

My 2nd matured in March, so my last payments were then. I stopped paying the jumbo when I couldn't get a rational response for the 2nd.

I could stay or go, depending on the terms of any new loan.

--I wondered that too, Toothfairy. However, at least this time I have a reduction in income! Maybe they would modify?

Would the mod documents be worth filling out for any reason? If I want to stay (and keep the house or drag it out, makes no difference--does it?).

CL says

--I wondered that too, Toothfairy. However, at least this time I have a reduction in income! Maybe they would modify?

Do you know if this would be under HAMP or is that completely done? If it were under HAMP, the reduction in income could likely make your payments more affordable in the short-term, but not really change the principal.

When I talked to them, they made it sound like almost all the mods are done with Government guidelines, but I don't now if it's HAMP per se.

Sorry to hear that CL drag it out if you can maybe. Maybe the F'd up the original lone??
what state are you in CA?
what city are you?
what kind of hood? bet it's a nice one for the NOD to come so fast.
I was under the theory that the NOD's come faster in the "fortress" areas?

you're going to be fine,.. you made it this far.

Nobody is going to buy your house for more than they could flip it for. Sounds like you have given up hope to keep it. Banks have more inventory then they can manage. Could you buy the place for what you owe and turn it for a $10K profit ? Neither will a flipper. HOLD OUT. Negotiate as long as you can, but prepare for the worst. Thousands , maybe tens of thousands just continue to stay in their foreclosed homes rent free. I personally know a few. I have never met anyone who has won the lotto... While the banks struggle to stay alive they continue to arm their file cabinets. They hope the economy blossoms soon or receivership is the banks demise. If they wanted to commit suicide they would just cut everyones principal balance in half.

What does NOD mean?

Hey, we made it two and a half years with B of A without making a mortgage payment at all. Really, at the end, had we filed BK we could have milked it for more.

Piss on the banks. They keep getting bailed out with our tax dollars and we keep getting poorer and poorer. Imagine if we all had received 10k of the money that we rightfully paid inward to the system. Imagine how 10k for each and every person could have really stimulated the economy.

No, instead we're sending money to everyone else. We're robbing Libya of their 140 some odd tons without congressional oversight and next is Obama's own Reichstag / 911. We've been duped and we're to stupid to realize it. Instead we allow ourselves to be duped more.

Don't pay them. I wish everyone would do the same and send one really good solid and stern message to the greedy crooked bastards, while they sing along with Twisted Sisters song "We're not gonna take it" anymore.

They promised jobs, we got none. They promised transparency, we got none. They promised less debt, we got more. They said it was getting better and they lied yet again. They said we weren't going into another recession and that the first one was over. They were wrong again. They promise and promise and promise and it's all empty.

What's going to happen when the government starts renting foreclosures? Section 8 in once good neighborhoods. How's that one going to fly over in terms of sustaining good positive property value in Beavers neighborhood?

Is all of this relevant? Of course it is. All branches are connected to a trunk which is in turn connected to a root.

DON'T PAY THEM A RED CENT. NONE OF US ASKED FOR OUR ECONOMY TO BE TAKEN FROM US. WE ALL WAKE UP EVERY MORNING TO WORK AND THIS IS OUR REPAYMENT.

Now is the trickle down affect. No work, means cuts in hours which is cuts in pay. Cuts in hours and pay means lifestyles change at home and the lifestyles that ours support through our product and service purchases are in turn affected all the way back to the root.

Oh I forgot, while all this is happening, some idiots want higher taxes for us low and middle class people who are struggling to make ends meat on refined fixed budgets. Oh, that's those of us who are still employed at a decent respectful wage. Our poor seniors who are on fixed incomes I guess are supposed to just die off. Now that's a soft kill if any. DEATH PANELS are defined in many ways.

Don't pay them. Save what you can and buy GOLD and SILVER if you can.

This was just sent to me by email. SATIRE
NOAH TODAY

In the year 2011, the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in Oregon and said:
"Once again, the earth has become evil and I see the end of all flesh before me. Build another Ark and save 2 of every living thing along with a few good humans." He gave Noah the blueprints, saying: "You have 6 months to build the Ark before I will start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights."

Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his yard - but no Ark.
"Noah!," He roared, "I'm about to start the rain! Where is the Ark?"
"Forgive me, Lord," begged Noah, "but things have changed."

"I needed a Building Permit."

"I've been arguing with the Boat Inspector
about the need for a sprinkler system."

"My neighbors claim that I've violated the
Neighborhood By-Laws by building the Ark in my back garden and exceeding the height limitations. We had to go to the Local Planning Committee for a decision."

"Then the Local Council and the Electric Company demanded a boat load of money for the future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions, to clear the passage for the Ark's move to the sea. I told them that the sea would be coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it."

"Getting the wood was another problem. There's a ban on cutting local trees in order to save the Greater Spotted Barn Owl. I tried to convince the environmentalists that I needed the wood to save the owls - but no go!"

"When I started gathering the animals the ASPCA took me to court. They insisted that I was confining wild animals against their will. They argued the accommodations were too restrictive, and it was cruel and inhumane to put so many animals in a confined space."

"Then the Environmental Protection Agency ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd conducted an environmental impact study on your proposed flood."

"I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Human Rights Commission on how many minorities I'm supposed to hire for my building crew."

"Immigration are checking the Visa status of most of the people who want to work."

"The trades unions say I can't use my sons. They insist I have to hire only Union workers with ark-building experience."

"To make matters worse, the Internal Revenue Service seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to leave the country illegally with endangered species."

"So, forgive me, Lord, but it would take at least 10 years for me to finish this Ark."

"Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow stretched across the sky."

Noah looked up in wonder and asked,
"You mean you're not going to destroy the world?"

"No," said the Lord.
" The Government beat me to it."

You should be able to delay the foreclosure by filing for a modification.
I know people who stayed rent-free for over a year BEFORE NOD was filed.
Then stayed another 6-12 month before foreclosure sale.
Drag things out and save all the money that you would have paid the bank.
You may want to find a real estate attorney for a consultation. It would probably cost under $600, but he may be able to extend your rent-free stay for you, so its a good investment

toothfairy says

It sound like theyve sped up the process. how long has it been since you stopped paying?

probably no chance the loan mod will go through and the package is probably a stealth way to collect your financial information to determine whether or not they will sue.

I think you may be f-ed

That's the plan! After all this carnage, why would you believe that they cared anything about humans? You are their meal, and they are hungry. Never trust a wolf wearing the clothes of sheep! Pass the catsup?

xlr8 says

You should be able to delay the foreclosure by filing for a modification.

I know people who stayed rent-free for over a year BEFORE NOD was filed.

Then stayed another 6-12 month before foreclosure sale.

Drag things out and save all the money that you would have paid the bank.

You may want to find a real estate attorney for a consultation. It would probably cost under $600, but he may be able to extend your rent-free stay for you, so its a good investment

Agree! Just worry about surviving without paying a mortgage. It can only get better, and if you have some income use it to go celebrate your new found wealth! YOU just won the LOTTO! by NOT PAYING the mortgage! The system lied to you, now give them the finger and let them suffer!

Thanksgiving 2022

"Winston, come into the dining room, it's time to eat," Julia yelled to
her husband. "In a minute, honey, it's a tie score," he answered.
Actually Winston wasn't very interested in the traditional holiday
football game between Detroit and Washington.

Ever since the government passed the Civility in Sports Statute of
2017, outlawing tackle football for its "unseemly violence" and the
"bad example it sets for the rest of the world," Winston was far less
of a football fan than he used to be. Two-hand touch wasn't nearly as
exciting.

Yet it wasn't the game that Winston was uninterested in. It was more
the thought of eating another Tofu Turkey. Even though it was the best
type of Veggie Meat available after the government revised the American
Anti-Obesity Act of 2018, adding fowl to the list of
federally-forbidden foods, (which already included potatoes, cranberry
sauce and mince-meat pie), it wasn't anything like real turkey. And
ever since the government officially changed the name of "Thanksgiving
Day" to "A National Day of Atonement" in 2020 to officially acknowledge
the Pilgrims' historically brutal treatment of Native Americans, the
holiday had lost a lot of its luster.

Eating in the dining room was also a bit daunting. The unearthly gleam
of government-mandated fluorescent light bulbs made the Tofu Turkey look
even weirder than it actually was, and the room was always cold. Ever
since Congress passed the Power Conservation Act of 2016, mandating all
thermostats-which were monitored and controlled by the electric
company-be kept at 68 degrees, every room on the north side of the
house was barely tolerable throughout the entire winter.

Still, it was good getting together with family. Or at least most of
the family. Winston missed his mother, who passed on in October, when
she had used up her legal allotment of live-saving medical treatment.
He had had many heated conversations with the Regional Health
Consortium, spawned when the private insurance market finally went
bankrupt, and everyone was forced into the government health care
program. And though he demanded she be kept on her treatment, it was a
futile effort. "The RHC's resources are limited," explained the
government bureaucrat Winston spoke with on the phone. "Your mother
received all the benefits to which she was entitled. I'm sorry for your
loss."

Ed couldn't make it either. He had forgotten to plug in his electric
car last night, the only kind available after the Anti-Fossil Fuel Bill
of 2021 outlawed the use of the combustion engines-for everyone but
government officials. The fifty mile round trip was about ten miles too
far, and Ed didn't want to spend a frosty night on the road somewhere
between here and there.

Thankfully, Winston's brother, John, and his wife were flying in.
Winston made sure that the dining room chairs had extra cushions for
the occasion. No one complained more than John about the pain of
sitting down so soon after the government-mandated cavity searches at
airports, which severely aggravated his hemorrhoids. Ever since a
terrorist successfully smuggled a cavity bomb onto a jetliner, the TSA
told Americans the added "inconvenience" was an "absolute necessity" in
order to stay "one step ahead of the terrorists." Winston's own body
had grown accustomed to such probing ever since the government expanded
their scope to just about anywhere a crowd gathered, via Anti-Profiling
Act of 2022. That law made it a crime to single out any group or
individual for "unequal scrutiny," even when probable cause was
involved. Thus, cavity searches at malls, train stations, bus depots,
etc., etc., had become almost routine. Almost.

The Supreme Court is reviewing the statute, but most Americans expect a
Court composed of six progressives and three conservatives to leave the
law intact. "A living Constitution is extremely flexible," said the
Court's eldest member, Elena Kagan. " Europe has had laws like this one
for years. We should learn from their example," she added.

Winston's thoughts turned to his own children. He got along fairly well
with his 12-year-old daughter, Brittany, mostly because she ignored
him. Winston had long ago surrendered to the idea that she could text
anyone at any time, even during Atonement Dinner. Their only real
confrontation had occurred when he limited her to 50,000 texts a month,
explaining that was all he could afford. She whined for a week, but got
over it.

His 16-year-old son, Jason, was another matter altogether. Perhaps it
was the constant bombarding he got in public school that global
warming, the bird flu, terrorism or any of a number of other calamities
were "just around the corner," but Jason had developed a kind of
nihilistic attitude that ranged between simmering surliness and
outright hostility. It didn't help that Jason had reported his father
to the police for smoking a cigarette in the house, an act made
criminal by the Smoking Control Statute of 2018, which outlawed smoking
anywhere within 500 feet of another human being. Winston paid the
$5,000 fine, which might have been considered excessive before the
American dollar became virtually worthless as a result of QE13. The
latest round of quantitative easing the federal government initiated
was, once again, to "spur economic growth." This time they promised to
push unemployment below its years-long rate of 18%, but Winston was not
particularly hopeful.

Yet the family had a lot for which to be thankful, Winston thought,
before remembering it was a Day of Atonement. At least he had his
memories. He felt a twinge of sadness when he realized his children
would never know what life was like in the Good Old Days, long before
government promises to make life "fair for everyone" realized their
full potential. Winston, like so many of his fellow Americans, never
realized how much things could change when they didn't happen all at
once, but little by little, so people could get used to them.

He wondered what might have happened if the public had stood up while
there was still time, maybe back around 2011, when all the real
nonsense began. "Maybe we wouldn't be where we are today if we'd just
said 'enough is enough' when we had the chance," he thought.
Maybe so, Winston. Maybe so.

Having been through some tough times myself, but not right now, I think you can glean some good technical advice from the responses here about dealing with the bank.
Overall, the question is whether you like where you are, and whether it will be useful to you in the future to stay there. Can you grow food at that house? If you grow food, will the neighbors steal it? Can you cooperate with the neighbors to grow food or provide security/local bartering?
Or, is your entire life schematic drawn on the back of the Paper Money System? How do you plan on riding the Descent of this empire from its heyday of cheap resources? There is not going to be any 'recovery' which puts our system of systems back where it was 20 years ago. How does that match your view of your predicament? Is the negotiation with the bank simply a temporary measure until the "economy recovers", or is it part of a plan to reduce your dependence on non-local resources?

abhijitk says

What does NOD mean?

Notice of Default.

Thats when a bank officially notifies the person and that the person is behind on payments. They file it with the county too a few weeks earlier, it's public record.

This process isn't very fast now. Usually it takes 6 month (sometimes a year or more) for the next notice to show up. Next one is the notice of trustee sale. My aunt received her notice of trustee sale almost 2 years after NOD. (Good way to save money while the structure is foreclosing, it's 0 cost to live there for 2 years got her down payment back).

There are all sorts of ways to extend this, since banks aren't all that interested in foreclosing and maintaining the empty building. It's worth nothing to them, just a huge liability, unless there is someone who will pay for it.

A question I have: If you do a loan mod, is it a new loan, or a continuation of the old loan. The issue I have is: "Does the modified loan become recourse, or does it stay non-recourse purchase money?"

mark.anania1 says

A question I have: If you do a loan mod, is it a new loan, or a continuation of the old loan. The issue I have is: "Does the modified loan become recourse, or does it stay non-recourse purchase money?"

depends on the state laws. it is a new loan since it is a new contract, but it doesn't necessarily become recourse.

How about here in California?

mark.anania1 says

How about here in California?

CA is a non recourse state.

There is a one-action rule, but I don't know how it applies in these situations. I'd assume it is not applicable. Maybe someone who has ran into it can tell more:
http://www.oneactionrule.com/

My input is that if you can't afford the place get out and let the bank sell it to someone who can.

Go to www.livinglies.wordpress.com and read, read, read. There is probably fraud in your mortgage and if there is your servicer has no right to foreclose on you. The lawyers who have been trying to foreclose on us for 2.5 years are being investigated for fraud. The banks are in no hurry to foreclose because of the huge shadow inventory which is losing value every day. Do not sign anything until you are sure your title is not clouded. Do not give them any money. Save it. Live rent free. Unfortunately only about 9% of the population knows this and the banks are getting away with murder!

However, at least this time I have a reduction in income! Maybe they would modify?
CL, I may have missed a post or two by you. What happened on the income side? Were you or your wife laid off?

EBGuy, was about to ask the same thing. All the posts he's made in the past (that I've read, or can find right now) said that he could in fact pay, but didn't want to. Unless something happened recently that I wasn't aware of, the banks will know that he is strategically defaulting. If that's the case, then whether that will come back to bite him in the ass or not remains to be seen.

Yes. The wife is no longer employed, although she didn't make the bulk of our income we're down by a third maybe.

What do I win? :)

(RE: fantasy stories, the REAL Noah tale is much funnier--like when he drunkenly drops trou in front of his kids!)

well you can either try to loan mod, or you can try to squat for a year or two rent free.

CL says

wife is no longer employed

If she quit rather than being laid off or fired, you're unlikely to get a loan mod. Also, the banks are aware that defaulters and help-seeking clients are trying to "play down" their available resources/income. Just an FYI since you've been planning for this for a while.

Gee, I wish I could live rent free. However, I didn't take on a bloated mortgage for an overvalued hovel or refi like my neighbors who took out seconds and equity lines of credit to buy new cars, send their children to private school, and fly to the Hawaii very summer.

Instead, I rented and scratched and clawed -- trying to save.

Now, banks are screwing me by not kicking squatters out and putting those homes up for sale a more sane price.

FortWayne says

or you can try to squat for a year or two rent free.

the squatting for a year thing usually happens BEFORE the notice of default. If they've filed an NOD i think he should be looking for a new place to live. like now.

Katy Perry says

Sorry to hear that CL drag it out if you can maybe. Maybe the F'd up the original lone??

what state are you in CA?

what city are you?

what kind of hood? bet it's a nice one for the NOD to come so fast.

I was under the theory that the NOD's come faster in the "fortress" areas?

you're going to be fine,.. you made it this far.

wishful thinking bs

Why did you get to this point? Are you one of those persons who don't budget, save money, or just being a "cara de pau".

toothfairy says

FortWayne says

or you can try to squat for a year or two rent free.

the squatting for a year thing usually happens BEFORE the notice of default. If they've filed an NOD i think he should be looking for a new place to live. like now.

my aunt received a notice of trustee sale a year after the NOD.
and almost another year later they finally got eviction notice to move out.

I think new info is great. It's changeing daily. These type of posts will help countless others make better future choices.
thanks CL hang in there. it was all BS anyways man. If you really own they can't take it away.
some people still think they own thier home.

chip_designer says

Why did you get to this point? Are you one of those persons who don't budget, save money, or just being a "cara de pau".

Go through his past posts and threads. He's been planning on walking away ever since he realized he couldn't turn out a quick profit and hit up the ATM. Question is whether there have been extenuating circumstances that happened since, like the implied loss of income mentioned above (first I've heard of it), and whether the bank has figured out the scam if there is a scam (like "losing" income, temporarily, to fake hardship).

klarek says

Go through his past posts and threads. He's been planning on walking away ever since he realized he couldn't turn out a quick profit and hit up the ATM. Question is whether there have been extenuating circumstances that happened since, like the implied loss of income mentioned above (first I've heard of it), and whether the bank has figured out the scam if there is a scam (like "losing" income, temporarily, to fake hardship).

Obama will save all of these wonderful people by giving them money from the rest of us greedy lazy working taxpayers.

klarek says

chip_designer says

Why did you get to this point? Are you one of those persons who don't budget, save money, or just being a "cara de pau".

Go through his past posts and threads. He's been planning on walking away ever since he realized he couldn't turn out a quick profit and hit up the ATM. Question is whether there have been extenuating circumstances that happened since, like the implied loss of income mentioned above (first I've heard of it), and whether the bank has figured out the scam if there is a scam (like "losing" income, temporarily, to fake hardship).

You usually err when you ascribe intent, although as always, I welcome your input.

No, there is a real loss of income-luckily not on my side. My 5 year HELOC matured, and instead of lowering my rate they increased it to 9% despite 800 credit. As if I were an idiot or if they intended to drive me out.

Regardless, my question was about completing the Loanmod application. If you want to start a thread where you vilify someone, start your own! :)

Now, should I fill out the documents or is there a risk I'm not aware of?

CL says

If you want to start a thread where you vilify someone, start your own!

Actually, I went through a whole bunch of your posts. Everything from "we can afford it but don't want to pay it" to "the game was rigged against me" to "why should I bear the burden of the sins of others", there's been a continual lack of culpability on your part and a clear desire to dump your bad gamble on others. All of a sudden the story has changed into "we really can't afford this house", which could very well be a coincidence since that's a far more forgivable way of defaulting than what you were originally planning to do. Am I being unfair by asking if this is all a coincidence? Aren't I doing you a favor by pointing out that your lender might very well have algorithms in their system to filter out the honest defaulters and flag those who are faking hardships? Just trying to give you a heads-up.

I'm not vilifying you, I just thought that since there are a handful of honest lurkers and posters here who want to know what happened that you could have clarified this way up above.

CL says

Now, should I fill out the documents or is there a risk I'm not aware of?

there isn't a risk as far as I can tell. I think there are strings attached, such as if you sell than portion of the house goes to the feds. But I don't know how it all works. You can probably call the bank and find out more about the loan mod.

They don't want your house, they prefer you keep paying them their debt-based racket.

E-man says

You have to give the poster the benefit of the doubt. Vilifying someone doesn't add much to a discussion, and it turns every post into a pissing match.

I'm not vilifying him, I'm asking him, and he's being a bit cryptic about what's going on. He went from "this is my situation, this is what I plan (or want) to do" a mere nine months ago to this, where he apparently followed through with his plan and it just-so-happens that his wife lost her job.

The benefit of doubt would be more easily earned if he didn't seem to have as many similar characteristics as a strategic defaulter: great credit, can afford the place, bought at the peak, bitter that he can't profit, etc.

Also re-read my posts above. I was warning him that this pattern is well-known by the lenders and that this may come back to bite him some day. Trying to feign hardship won't necessarily fool them. I could go on leave without pay tomorrow. Notice that he's being a bit vague about what happened?

Not that I really care what he does or why, but he's been asking for advice, so I'm just giving him a warning that his explanation/circumstance is a bit shady. Read up on the characteristics of a strategic defaulter, it's him to a T.

{insert ubiquitous pissing match retorts here}

All: thanks for the info, (even you, Klarek. I don't mind your contrarian views, especially when the venom is reduced. Don't think I haven't noticed that it has!)

They've also assigned a single individual to handle me, to whom I'll reach out if nobody says otherwise. That alone will be a welcome change, since the batch of fools I've dealt with over the last year or so seem to all be low-level folks without sufficient authority or the proper vantage point. At least now I'll only have one idiot to talk to!