patrick.net

PC says

I absolutely hate Phoenix! I've been trying to get out of here for 3 yrs now, but to me, housing prices are still too high back east and the midwest

You don't have to buy to relocate. People relocate all the time without buying.

Why on earth wouldn't you relocate to one of those places first, live there for a least a year, and then if you don't absolutely hate the new place (like you do the place you're living in now), see about buying?

Oh and one more thing, it's sleazy Realtor®, okay?

What you are saying sounds so strange.
My gut reaction is that you are dealing with the wrong people, and they think that you are stupid or really have absolutly no knowledge of the realestate industry.
Out here in California where I live real estate agents are a dime a dozen. You need to find someone else.
I hear many people are using Red Fin. try them or try Zip realty, I think they give money back to buyers.
If a realestate agent tried to charge me to show houses, or asked for a commision from me I would tell them that they are nuts.

Not to defend realtors, but that is how a buyer's agent works. If the seller doesn't agree to pay the fees (they almost always do) then you have to. That's because he theoretically works for you and not the seller.

Agree with Sybrib, why would you buy to relocate? Rent for a while. Get out of Phoenix if you hate it there. Find out what neighborhoods you like in the new city and learn them. Only after you've been following sales for a while would you start making offers. Rent at least a year so you see what the neighborhood you want to buy in is like at all seasons.

In a town where many houses are selling for less than say, $50,000, I don't think it is absolutely beyond the pale to charge lookie loos some money up front to show them a bunch of houses. However, if I were a realtor, if the buyer were preapproved for a mortgage and seemed reasonably serious, I would NOT charge them up front, even for a fairly cheap house.

But Detroit isn't the only city selling houses for under $10,000. Baltimore apparently has a lot in the under $10,000 price range, and St. Louis has MANY decent looking houses (in scary neighborhoods) for less than $15,000, and sometimes less than $10,000. Solid brick all the way up to the eaves on nice sized lots with beautiful trees. Once houses are selling at these prices, I don't know how a realtor makes a living, and as I said, if the house prices are low enough, I think it is legitimate if the realtors alter their fee structure to reflect that.

Prices have been dropping for quite a while in St. Louis. Rural Northwest Arkansas (NOT Fayetteville/Springfield/Rogers) was very stable until just recently. About six months ago, I talked to the ladies behind the counter at the bank. One of them was building a new house, and the other one was married to a contractor. The one building a house said that it had been tough to find a contractor able to take on a new project, because they were all so busy. The other lady said that her husband (contractor) was very busy as well. Both of them agreed that the bank's customers who wanted to build new houses were having no problems getting financing. But now prices are falling here, too, 7.9% in the past year in my town, and I think that most of that may have occurred over the summer months, which would bode ill for the housing market this coming winter.

I have been tracking the local prices for vacant, buildable lots, and they seem VERY overpriced to me, while the house prices are often quite reasonable. (When you get carried away building your dream home down here, you are setting yourself up for a major loss, as there is a huge amount of vacant land, and anybody who really wants something "special" will probably build their own dream home instead of buying the one you built.)

If there is no particular pressure to leave Phoenix right now, I would wait until the November, 2012 elections. If prices continue to drop this winter, then I don't think that they will increase much during the summer. People are too scared of overpaying, so there won't be a summer bounce next year, just like there wasn't much of one this year. (As I said, local prices appear to have gone down during the peak summer buying months.) If Obama's re-elected, the winter of 2012/13 will be very bleak for housing, and I don't think it will be much better if a Republican is elected. People that I talk to seem to have lost all hope. I have a huge family scattered across the Midwest, West, South and Southwest, and this is the first time I can remember when nobody was in the process of looking for a house, nobody has just moved into a house, etc. I do have relatives who are trapped in underwater houses/mortgages.

tatupu70 says

Not to defend realtors, but that is how a buyer's agent works. If the seller doesn't agree to pay the fees (they almost always do) then you have to. That's because he theoretically works for you and not the seller.

tatupu70 You MUST READ THE listing contract. 98% of the time the so-called "buyers agent" us subordinate to the listing agent. In California it gets worse. Many don't understand that the MLS-Realtor game has the main function of CONTROLLING the market, and its prices...and their income and power.

Look at this hypothetical. Lets say you hire (PAY CASH in advance) to a so-called "Buyers Agent" to pretend to represent you.

You make a specific IN WRITING REQUIREMENT fore any SFR property that you want to buy. This is in addition to other variables like location, construction, cost, mortgage if any and other objectively MEASUREABLE characteristics that ONLY the LISTING agent or seller would know.

So you "buyers agent" pretending to conduct "due diligence" (mainly to CYA) , will ask the listing broker the one contingency question that could break the deal IF IT WAS ANSWERED honestly. So the buyers agent asks....blah blah blah IS this true about this house? The listing agent CAN LIE to the buyers agent WITH NO RECOURSE BY THE BUYER when the truth is found. WHY? READ THE LISTING agreement>

The buyer can not sue the listing agent for LYING to the "buyers agent" ....It is not their fault that the listing agent LIED> The maximuum fine...buy the local association could be $500 BIG WOOP! IF and only IF the BUYERS agent was one of the Good old boys in the association.

MY take is that if you sucker for being a customer of a REALTOR ....you deal ONLY with the listing agent. Sure they won't cut you slack and will lie to you THEY REPRESENT THE SELLER AT ALL TIMES---Read the listing agreement. BUT California law imbues Realtors with OBJECTIVITY that is not entrusted to trial court judges. YOU CAN SUE and sue because of ANY false representation since it is DUAL AGENCY. You know like the prosecutor and defense attorney can be fair to you when prosecuting you AND "defending" you at the same time. It like having a meter maid be the judge on your parking ticket. YOU WILL PAY THE FINE EVEN if it was a lie.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

THEY'RE ALL SCUM and all mortgage brokers are SLIME.

Sounds like they're trying to get you to sign onto some kind of exotic note that will return them commissions they can split to subsidize their cannibalism and child porn habits.

Remember, if a Realtor's mouth is moving, it's not only lying, it's getting ready to bite you on the throat.

apocalypse- WHY ARE YOU SO POLITE AND RESTRAINED? I LEARNED THE ALL CAPS FROM READING REALTOR ADS>

They are not going to bite your throat UNTIL they cannibalize a few helpless children FIRST...then they will bite the jugular and suck out all the blood....just like the Vampire Squid sucking all the money out of MAIN street and hiding it on WALL street.

tatupu70 says

If the seller doesn't agree to pay the fees (they almost always do) then you have to. That's because he theoretically works for you and not the seller.

And that is the point where I would point blank tell them to sell it or lease it to someone else.

I just bought a short sale home where I suspect there was collusion between the listing agent and my "buyer's" agent. The contract included a 6% commission, which my agent said "the bank will cut that to 4%". It also included a buyer's requirement to may a separate fee, up to 1%, for a "negotiator", which turned out to be yet another broker and, no surprise, maxed at a full 1%.

Moreover, the bank, Wells Fargo, asked the two agents, the buyer and the seller to sign a confirmation that there was no separate deal that would give the seller any proceeds from the sale. We all signed and within a week the listing agent sent my agent a $20K offer from the seller to "sell" some installed stereo and surround sound equipment that had to stay as "fixtures". My agent forwarded the proposal to me. When I said the two agents should "arrange" to make sure the equipment stayed in place, they claimed inability to do so because of the agreement, yet both agents were encouraging me to violate the signed Wells Fargo statement.

Let me close saying the house is in a unique spot with a phenomenal view, over 20 miles in places, and I did get it at 56% of the original price paid. I could have walked away or fought more over the Ts and Cs but I wanted the house and the extra fees are small change in the grand scheme of things. Still you walk away feeling screwed.

There may be cases where a buyer is asked to pay Realtor fees. The request should be made in advance, and in writing.

One case would be in a "for sale by owner" situation where the buyer has expressed interest in properties that are not listed by an Agent.

Another case is/are some of the dirt cheap places that are being marketed by Banks...2% of $10K doesn't pay the rent, and such an agreement (aboveboard and in advance) will compensate the Buyer's Agent.

sam234 says

within a week the listing agent sent my agent a $20K offer from the seller to "sell" some installed stereo and surround sound equipment that had to stay as "fixtures".

This is illegal and could result in prosecution. Slime Warning !

commonsense says

tatupu70 says

If the seller doesn't agree to pay the fees (they almost always do) then you have to. That's because he theoretically works for you and not the seller.

And that is the point where I would point blank tell them to sell it or lease it to someone else.

Me too.

investor90 says

tatupu70 You MUST READ THE listing contract

Hey--like I said, I'm not defending realtors. Just saying that buyers are responsible for their agents commission if the seller doesn't agree to pay a buyers agent.

repo4sale says

These "Realtors" are in a OBAMA RECESSION! YOU DUMB LIBERALS VOTED FOR THIS DUMB WELFARE PRESIDENT!

100-200%/Year California Land TIC 1031 or cash in early 6%/yr prorated $100kMi

A BRAIN! A BRAIN! A BRAIN!

Rule #1: Never trust a Realtor or mortgage broker.

6% commission? There are some who will take 3% or less in this depressed market, so you can negotiate down. Many Raltors are starving.

Enough is enough, we all have to wake up quick, think about this. A mutual fund charges 2.5% fee is alot. Even Goldman Sachs when brokering Facebook, their fees was 4%.

Remember - when a Realtor is talking, they are generally trying to defraud you.

JimAtLaw says

Remember - when a Realtor is talking, they are generally trying to defraud you.

I don't even want them talking to me. I can read the listing and request the information I need (in-writing) I would and just tell them that I would rather they simply shut up.

JimAtLaw says

Remember - when a Realtor is talking, they are generally trying to defraud you.

This!

Sounds like a violation of RESPA with regard interest rate and disclosure. From your description of the events, you provided Coldwell Bankers mortgage company the necessary information for them to issue a GFE. That good faith estimate should list a floating or locked interest rate which ever you selected. If you chose not lock but floated the rate after informing the mortgage company to proceed with the deal, then at some point when the interest rate IS locked, the mortgage company is required to issue a redisclosed GFE to show the locked rate.

In many articles in Patrick.net the people complain about Realtor fees on Commission. One of the ways many people say is better is they charge by the hour or another way bc they always complain they make TO MUCH money for the hours spent? So here is someone charging a very reasonable fee for their time and effort and they still complain? You can't have it both ways. I am sure you guys don't work for free either do you?

How many times does a REALTOR not get paid for showing dozens of homes and spending months with clients and using their time, energy, gas,, phone, making low offers for the clients, or trying to sell an overpriced listing for months and a seller refuses to lower their price or do any work to the house to make it more competitive? Since they don't pay unless it sells they don't mind wasting a Realtors time or money since they are not paying a dime for advetising, open houses, internet etc.

You can't have it both ways.

"if the seller does not pay the realtors fees (or if they are less than $1,500) THE BUYER SHALL PAY THEM. also will charge me a $10.00 fee for each home she shows me."

Buyer's contracts are not uncommon. This agent simply doesn't want to be wasting their time and this type of thing weeds out the home-lookers from the actual buyers.

Weaker agents may not use buyer contracts - and if you shop around I'm sure you could find desperate ones who will even give you a kick-back. Just remember that you do get what you pay for. A great agent can earn their money several times over in a transaction.

"When I first talked to the agent, I told her I was preapproved by chase and US bank. She told me that I should call "her contact" (implying I could get a better deal and it would be "easier" for her.) Which I did. Coldwell Banker has their own financing dept and the girl told me "theres NO WAY you are going to qualify for a conventional mtg."

This isn't sleazy. Unfortunately, we get a lot of buyers telling us that they are pre-approved by someplace when, in reality, they have only been pre-qualified based on information they provided over the phone. Loans are confusing, the lingo is confusing, and mortgage brokers often make promises before actually doing their homework.

I good real estate agent will absolutely recommend that you at least get looked at by someone they trust. This makes sure you aren't getting ripped-off, and that you aren't wasting your time.

Here, it looks like the agent was right and that your previous "pre-approval" was worthless. Instead of complaining, you should be thanking them.

"they approved me FHA for $18,000 less than the banks and wanted to charge me $780 application fee and encouraged me to only put 3.5% down (so I'd have to pay the mort insurance to cover their ass). To this day they have NEVER told me the interest rate, or monthly payment amounts or any type of disclosure."

Whatever they approved you for is the limit of what you actually qualify for. Given that your down-payment is less, there would be a higher loan amount so it makes sense the overall total would be lower.

The application fee sounds weird. Did that include an appraisal fee?

The mortgage insurance doesn't cover their ass. That's not how it works.

In California anyway, they are required to provide you with a truth-in-lending statement that shows your interest rate and all fees. Either way, all you had to do was ask.

It's also worth noting that rates aren't set until you "lock" them in and they can change from day-to-day. This is why comparing the rates lenders charge is often a waste of time.

"this bullshit they told me cost me a ding on my credit score"

I doubt that. Multiple inquiries during the same month or two for the same reason (like applying for a mortgage) don't hurt you.

"Further, I told the agent that I would be "shopping around" for a closing title company and asked if she would recommend anyone and guess who she recommended? COLDWELL! "

Most fees from all of the major title companies are very similar. And a good title/escrow officer can make a big difference in fixing problems that can pop up at closing. If the agent says that this person is good and the fees are competitive, you should absolutely use them.

Believe it or not, everyone isn't out to get you. The events you've described aren't unreasonable or unethical.

Chill out.

repo4sale says

These "Realtors" are in a OBAMA RECESSION! YOU DUMB LIBERALS VOTED FOR THIS DUMB WELFARE PRESIDENT!

100-200%/Year California Land TIC 1031 or cash in early 6%/yr prorated $100kMi

As opposed to voting for someone like Reagan who killed the middle class and increased the ultraRich-middleClass gap by a factor of a thousand?

If those are my only two choices, I'll go with the welfare queen. He does less harm.

First, plenty of democrats are rich and made plenty of money in the 80s also, so what is being lost here in this political bickering is that plenty of democrats are part of that ultra-rich world many resent. I bet if a republican send any one of you a check for tens of millions you would not refuse and would sing a different tune.

Tango--

Great job on your first post. Content free, check. Personal insult, check. Alias soon to disappear, check.

sam234 says

When I said the two agents should "arrange" to make sure the equipment stayed in place, they claimed inability to do so because of the agreement, yet both agents were encouraging me to violate the signed Wells Fargo statement.

You should sue for the stereo equipment? Would it have been worth anywhere near $20K? This is definitely highly questionable behavior. I would be concerned for my own liability in signing this sort of statement when I had no intention of buying this crap.

commonsense says

I bet if a republican send any one of you a check for tens of millions you would not refuse and would sing a different tune.

What were you trying to say here? If anyone, human, alien, dog, horse, rat, sends me a check for tens of millions, I'll sing whatever tune they request.

I can tell you this from personal experience there is no place back East or the Midwest they could lure me away from anywhere in the West.

doom says

I can tell you this from personal experience there is no place back East or the Midwest they could lure me away from anywhere in the West.

lol. How many places have you lived in the Midwest, East, and West to make such a blanket statement?

Those houses in baltimore md for 10k , If you want drug dealers , and hookers they are great deals , after you dump 30 grand in repairs . The bullet proof glass for the windows and the 2 inch steel door will set you back a bit. But you can find good areas in the surrounding counties and decent homes in the 100k to 200k range

corntrollio says

What were you trying to say here? If anyone, human, alien, dog, horse, rat, sends me a check for tens of millions, I'll sing whatever tune they request.

I am asking because it is human nature. It is a blanket statement on human nature that for the right amount of money anyone can get anyone to do what they want. (And THEY know it.)

PC says

And, I contacted (friend of a friend) realtor in IN and she sent me a buyers non exclusive to sign, which states: if the seller does not pay the realtors fees (or if they are less than $1,500) THE BUYER SHALL PAY THEM. also will charge me a $10.00 fee for each home she shows me. These are both new develpments.

That's the way it should be. When the seller pays for the commission, it actually comes out of your pocket in the end since Purchase $$$ --> Seller Proceeds --> Commission. By bypassing the seller and paying your agent directly, you're avoiding a potential conflict of interest. The COI is there by design, of course.

I wouldn't be so sure that these sleasy tricks were actually new.

What about making Realtors (r) non commission based. I'd rather just pay a realtor $25 for each house they show me, because I will weed them out by myself. With the online resources now, you should be able to narrow it down. Then pay them a flat rate for closing

commonsense says

I am asking because it is human nature.

Well, that's why I think it's useless to make this about ideology. You still haven't really explained your comment or what it means -- certainly some people have principles and limits to what they'll do. I don't understand why it's really relevant to point out a statement on human nature.

Just play their tricks with them. Bid way over asking price so your offer is accepted and the last moment back out and start lowballing.