patrick.net

kentm says

I tell you again that white males have reaped the benefits of the best of what this culture has to offer for so long that most of us cant even see it anymore, and any shift in the wind to the contrary is going to seem like a tilting against, i understand that about those who arent capable of grasping the concepts. Read my earlier analogy about the cyclists.

Are these white males alive or long dead..I am white and i have no idea what anyone reaped. The law that created affirmative action which impacts many was made long before many here were born and may well impact their children and grand children.

Its been over 50 years and you wish to shackle the rest of the population on this matter. If we question it, we are racists.

thomas.wong1986 says

If we question it, we are racists.

No, but if you say stuff like this you are racists.

Scagnetti says

Did you know that the VAST majority of world class sprinters are from African descent? Why is that? Are you going to argue that whites can overcome this deficiency within a few generations with proper training, equal opportunity, and a different culture? Or do you think blacks' dominance in sprinting is just raw innate talent?

The NFL is mostly black and so is the NBA and no one utters a word. Blacks' dominance in these sports is realized. The second you post some SAT scores that show Whites and Asians come out on top, LOOK OUT, Marcus and the bunch that think like him will demonize you. Does anyone see a double standard here? That its ok to be pro-black, pro-hispanic, pro-anything, EXCEPT pro-white?

thomas.wong1986 says

The law that created affirmative action which impacts many

I would argue that it's part of our culture by now to move things in this direction, and efforts are made to hire (or admit to colleges) a diverse mix of employees or students. That is, ethnicity or gender can be a factor in hiring or admittance if a group is under-represented. At this point it is done for reasons that transcend affirmative action laws. It's now just part of our culture, a part that even most conservatives embrace.

So honestly, I really don't even know what the big debate is here.

marcus says

No, but if you say stuff like this you are racists.

no, thats not racism not by far and your not seeing your own double standard.

thomas.wong1986 says

I am white

okay, I gotta ask: why is your log in name "thomas.wong1986" if you're white?

kentm says

okay, I gotta ask: why is your log in name "thomas.wong1986" if you're white?

what does a log in name have to do with my race ?
Maybe "Wong" is short for Wongstein, Wongenski, or maybe Wongucci.

oh dude, come on...

Honestly, I think you were MADE to troll this thread.

And frankly you look more and more ridiculous as you do so.

Scagnetti, Thomis Wong, & Jeremy - its pretty clear to see who the racists are on this site, isn't it?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/driven/janitor-turned-owner-rescues-failing-ohio-factory-195149281.html

Here's a link to a story of a janitor turned owner. Its a very inspirational story, a story of the real American Dream. You'll notice NO affirimative action, NO preferential treatment, NO "leveling the playing field", NO race baiting, NO Al Sharpton demonstrations, NO rabble rousing, NO liberal mentality, NO forced equality of results, and NO government handouts.

See you whiney liberals, people of all colors CAN succeed. Without your're dimwitted government mandated, busybody interventionism.

Ah, a single heartwarming success story. Great, well that makes everything all better and clearly invalidates studies and historical precedence...

You possibly realize this is the equivalent of the "it's snowing somewhere so global warming is crap" argument, right?

That's it, I give up. When the discussion drops to that level it's a waste of effort.

Gotta love "identity politics." It's great for the top 0.1% who own our labor.

kentm says

oh dude, come on...
Honestly, I think you were MADE to troll this thread.
And frankly you look more and more ridiculous as you do so.

So now that Im no longer viewed as an Asian, im now a troll.
Now you can throw all your insults becuase im white now...
But before you dare not because you thought I was Asian.
Racism anyone !

kentm says

Ah, a single heartwarming success story. Great, well that makes everything all better and clearly invalidates studies and historical precedence...
You possibly realize this is the equivalent of the "it's snowing somewhere so global warming is crap" argument, right?
That's it, I give up. When the discussion drops to that level it's a waste of effort.

I suggest you drive down to "Little Siagon" in San Jose and see the many sucess stories of small business that started and grew by the Vietnamese immigrants over the past 30 years. Their children today work in many other fields from Medical, Technology, Law, CPAs, and other careers. They contributed to the success of Silicon Valley.

Its funny that Liberals never walk into places like Little Siagon, which is heavy Republican base.. their motto..God, Family Country.. they all believe in self reliance and growing to succed.

thomas.wong1986 says

So now that Im no longer viewed as an Asian, im now a troll.
Now you can throw all your insults becuase im white now...
But before you dare not because you thought I was Asian.
Racism anyone !

Sigh. I have no care whatsoever what you are, I honestly couldn't care less. What I care about is what you write... Ive told you before i think youre a fool and a troll, like back in the day when you were arguing in support of prop 14, and the recent couple of exchanges haven't changed a thing for me. If it helps you in some way to imagine otherwise then go right ahead.

Though I see now there are clearly some issues with you around race which I hadn't realized before and are kind of interesting, but I suppose I'll never find out.

At any rate I've called you a troll because I think you're being disingenuous in your arguments & coy hints of personal info and are so far off missing every point of every argument put to you that I can only think you're fucking with us because judging by the way you write you don't really seem to be that stupid.

Cheers.

Like Prop 13, not 14 .. you just get it all wrong.

thomas.wong1986 says

Quote

Anyone who claims that white people are marginalized is a racist. Period.

Kevin says

Anyone who claims that white people are marginalized is a racist. Period.

Why?

thomas.wong1986 says

Like Prop 13, not 14 .. you just get it all wrong.

Oh dear, the crushing weight of your argument has won the day... you sure showed me up. Okay, THAT is an example of why I think of you as a troll. So with that reply, in addition to thinking of you as a fool and a troll I now think of you as probably being about a 14 year old boy.

Here's an article for you on my way out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/06/minority-students-education-study_n_1322594.html

But you won't get it, won't read it, and will respond with a reply that goes something like this: "but a black man somewhere won a poker game, so this proves everything you post is wrong, and liberals suck, and they never do anything good. Sneer."

In closing, as a method of entry into understanding the world of the thought process from which that article was written, and from which many of the comments you argue against, mine included, without ever really understanding are based in I give you this clue: it's not who wins, it's who looses. And why.

Bye

kentm says

Here's an article for you on my way out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/06/minority-students-education-study_n_1322594.html

I want you to explain to me why your affraid of going to places like Little Siagon and talking to or even getting to know some of the Vietnamese immagrants who came to the US, and why they have become so successfull ?

"Civil rights advocates expect this data, collected during the 2009-10 school year, will provide new ammunition for compliance reviews, advocacy and lawsuits involving educational fairness in America."

Who are you going to sue ?

kentm says

it's not who wins, it's who looses. And why.

The policies based on quotas which you favor discourage anyone "winning" based on their ability and personal drive. Like the Fireman's lawsuit in the video above, you cannot win because it does not meet the racial quota.

Kevin says

Anyone who claims that white people are marginalized is a racist. Period.

Was this before when YOU thought I was Asian or after
when I said I could be white ? Which is it ?

thomas.wong1986 says

I want you to explain to me why your affraid of going to places like Little Siagon and talking to or even getting to know some of the Vietnamese immagrants who came to the US, and why they have become so successfull ?

I have to correct my statements above. You just really sound like an idiot now.

kentm says

I have to correct my statements above. You just really sound like an idiot.

Who is the racist now!

At this point I also have to question if you really even understand what 'racism' means.

kentm says

At this point I also have to question if you really even understand what 'racism' means.

Racism today is hypocrisy.

kentm says

Also:

I don't refute your study. I disagree with the viewpoint that STATE SPONSORED ANTI-WHITE PREJUDICE (affirmative action) is a good thing!

Then I have to say you don't understand it. And I ask you who you mean to indicate the 'good thing' is intended to be for? There's always winners and losers in every situation...

Let me clarify....

I am all for "access" but our current system goes beyond "access" and into "discrimination".

I will use your own study as an example.

To prevent discrimination, some orchestra's started choosing their musicians by only listening to them, without seeing them. I think that's an excellent idea! For me, the problem is solved right there! The most competent people get the job. Race and gender aren't a factor, only competence.

Unfortunately that's not the system we have is it? Even in a system where the best candidates have BLINDLY been chosen, then we give a leg up to groups that are "underrepresented". That's bullshit and discrimination. The best person should get the job period!

P.S. ~ I changed my .gif for you. I agree, it was annoying when scrolling through all the comments.

marcus says

My whole argument is based on the fact that I shouldn't have to prove that it's socioeconomic.

Shouldn't or couldn't? If you can't prove it or at least show evidence, why would any rational person believe you? You want people to just "Take your word for it"?

Jeremy says

Kevin says

Anyone who claims that white people are marginalized is a racist. Period.

Why?

I pledge my greivance to the flag...

Because white people (specifically, white men) run the whole country (and really the whole world). It's such an absurd claim that if you're making it, you're either a racist or you're an idiot.

thomas.wong1986 says

Kevin says

Anyone who claims that white people are marginalized is a racist. Period.

Was this before when YOU thought I was Asian or after

when I said I could be white ? Which is it ?

I never thought you were Asian, you racist dipshit. Maybe you should try keeping people you're being batshit crazy at straight.

I think people have used the word "racist" and "racism" so much, it really is losing its meaning!

kentm says

Here's an article for you on my way out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/06/minority-students-education-study_n_1322594.html
But you won't get it, won't read it, and will respond with a reply that goes something like this: "but a black man somewhere won a poker game, so this proves everything you post is wrong, and liberals suck, and they never do anything good. Sneer."

followed by:

thomas.wong1986 says

I want you to explain to me why your affraid of going to places like Little Siagon and talking to or even getting to know some of the Vietnamese immagrants who came to the US, and why they have become so successfull ?
"Civil rights advocates expect this data, collected during the 2009-10 school year, will provide new ammunition for compliance reviews, advocacy and lawsuits involving educational fairness in America."
Who are you going to sue ?

I can't tell if Thomas was trying to be funny or not. Based on his usual writing style, I'd say no and if not, it is even funnier.

Kent--I'd say you pretty much nailed that one.

Thomas what the lobs can't tolerate is the concept of freedom.Its that simple,

I guess we can't have a "color blind" society. Fact is, we're obsessed with race. Is it hard-wired psychology?

rootvg says

Even if it were true, you couldn't do anything about it. There are far more votes in the Electoral College for our way of thinking than for yours.

Not according to Jeremy and Scags. Us white men have been marginalized. Didn't you get the memo?

tatupu70 says

rootvg says

Even if it were true, you couldn't do anything about it. There are far more votes in the Electoral College for our way of thinking than for yours.

Not according to Jeremy and Scags. Us white men have been marginalized. Didn't you get the memo?

I don't give a shit about anyone's memo. I know the truth. I've been a lot of places and trust me, California is an economic and cultural bubble.

Just wait until after the election in November. All this screwball politically correct California horseshit isn't going to get us much out here.

rootvg says

I've been a lot of places and trust me, California is an economic and cultural bubble.

Definitely.

Kevin says

Because white people (specifically, white men) run the whole country (and really the whole world).

THAT'S it? THAT is what makes me racist? The fact is, there is a major double standard in this country, and it is unwarranted. I understand why affirmative action was created. Years ago, underprivileged groups did not have access to the tools of self betterment that White Males had. Does any reasonably coherent person think there is one single person in this country that does not have access to the tools of self betterment because of the color of their skin or gender or sexual orientation? Give me a break. Everyone has the same access. Is it harder if you're poor, from the inner city? Yes. Is it super easy if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth? Yes. I would fight for more opportunities for underprivileged inner city or rural area kids to help guide them. But in the middle class world, the blacks and Hispanics and Women really need self promotional groups?? Why? They serve no purpose but to purport racism, however accepted they are. I'm made to feel guilty for being white. This is how I am marginalized. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood an hour outside of Los Angeles. On my street, there were girls, boys, whites, browns, blacks, maybe one asian kid. Our Community, employment, and societal prospects have been EXACTLY the same our entire lives. EXCEPT, they have had promotional groups, scholarships, recruitment targeting, hiring practices, etc., that have all been specifically directed at them simply because they are brown, black or whatever, while I have not. This is my argument for why white males are marginalized. Thank you for taking the time to think about my position from a logical point of view, and not simply spewing hatred. Thank you

Right, Jeremy. So-- employers, police officers, the court system, don't continue white privilege through preferential treatment?

The big issue here is that white people don't mind white privilege. They believe this is normal, because they believe themselves to be culturally superior. Isn't that really it?

tatupu70 says

rootvg says

Even if it were true, you couldn't do anything about it. There are far more votes in the Electoral College for our way of thinking than for yours.

Not according to Jeremy and Scags. Us white men have been marginalized. Didn't you get the memo?

I can take you several places that immediately come to mind where white males aren't marginalized. None of them are in California, Massachusetts, Illinois or Maryland.

We are approaching a point in our nation's history where all the "feeling" and political correctness in the world aren't going to save us from ourselves. We're sitting on a demographic time bomb that's in the early stages of blowing up on us. I think our taxes, as a nation, are going to go up but I also think we're in the very early stages of making some decisions on means testing of our entitlements and possibly in wholesale collapsing of some cabinet level agencies into others. We're gonna pay more but people are damn well gonna make sure that money goes as far as it can. I mean, what do you think the Fox News phenomenon is all about?

There was story out several weeks ago about Paul Ryan meeting with a bipartisan committee in the House about entitlement reform, outside the normal channels. The upshot? BIG changes are coming. Obama and the Democrats have spent so much so quickly and so recklessly that now SOMETHING must be done about it, lest we end up as Greece or Italy or Spain. Grover Norquist and his people aren't stupid. Maybe this was the plan all along, to get progressives in a position where we simply have no alternative but to slip the debt monster's neck into a noose and strangle the son of bitch until it dies in order to save the nation. If that's the case, yeah...it'll work but it's awfully strong medicine.

rootvg says

We're sitting on a demographic time bomb that's in the early stages of blowing up on us.

Pretty much. Whether you're on the "right" or "left" or somewhere else, demographics don't lie. The boomers didn't have enough children to support them (via taxes) in their old age.

Then boomers sold off our industrial infrastructure to China for a quick buck, and now we don't have anything in this country other than fast food and financial speculation.

wthrfrk80 says

rootvg says

We're sitting on a demographic time bomb that's in the early stages of blowing up on us.

Pretty much. Whether you're on the "right" or "left" or somewhere else, demographics don't lie. The boomers didn't have enough children to support them (via taxes) in their old age.

Then boomers sold off our industrial infrastructure to China for a quick buck, and now we don't have anything in this country other than fast food and financial speculation.

It depends upon where you go. Parts of the south are industrializing quite nicely, and it's not the dirty industry we're all too familiar with in the Rust Belt. VW just opened that plant at Chattanooga. BMW and Mercedes have been building cars and SUVs in South Carolina and Alabama (respectively) since the nineties.

I understand Hershey is moving most of its Pennsylvania operations to Virginia. Disney has a huge data center in (of all places) suburban Columbus. The AT&T data center we point our network traffic to is in downtown Akron, half an hour from where I grew up.

Yes, most of California's aerospace industry is gone. Yes, most of the military bases that supported us for fifty years are also gone. I don't think California ever recovered from the base downsizing in the early nineties. That wound never healed, in my opinion. That's the real reason Stockton is a basket case...although I hear landing on those ~12000 ft runways is a lot of fun for a student. If you can't pass your check ride in that environment, you shouldn't be flying. There's a runway at Castle that was for the B-52 fleet and they say it's 150 ft wide. You almost land a Cessna 150 or 172 sideways!

kentm says

thomas.wong1986 says
I am white

okay, I gotta ask: why is your log in name "thomas.wong1986" if you're white?

Kevin says

I never thought you were Asian, you racist dipshit. Maybe you should try keeping people you're being batshit crazy at straight.

At what point did I make a racist comment... show me where and to who .. was it toward black, white, latin, or asian group ?

thomas.wong1986 says

kentm says

thomas.wong1986 says

I am white

okay, I gotta ask: why is your log in name "thomas.wong1986" if you're white?

Kevin says

I never thought you were Asian, you racist dipshit. Maybe you should try keeping people you're being batshit crazy at straight.

At what point did I make a racist comment... show me where and to who .. was it toward black, white, latin, or asian group ?

You didn't Wong. Its the typical nonsense of challenging someones' opinion and them yelling RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! at you to silence you. Some of us are starting to see through this transparent argument. It's okay to drop your baggage of "white guilt" we have been saddled with.