patrick.net

leoj707 says

Bill Gates parents were millionaires, back in a time when millionaire meant something more than it does today.
He was going to Harvard and being groomed to become a lawyer when he dropped out of college to get into tech

and found himself in middle of Albuquerque, New Mexico.
This isnt Beverly Hills or Palm Beach is it now!

If his parents did give him some seed money, surely he could of done better than New Mexico. His nearest competitor was living in Carmel, Ca.

Rich people hate each other too.

.com bust is intentionally caused by the rich Republicans.

What difference if Bill Gates or Mark Zukerberg had wealthy parents? They and they alone caused their own success.

We are all self made men, but only the successful ones admit it.

We create our own destiny by the choices we make.

I'd like to add one more factor to the list: read self-help books.

Honest Abe says

I'd like to add one more factor to the list: read self-help books.

Why didn't anyone think of that before? I mean there are probably millions of college grads and former realtors who could be BILLIONAIRES if only they read the right book.

America is all about the connections, even people who fell off the wagon of their parents wealth such as Bill Gates were able to foster relationships most could only dream of having. Its all about knowing the right people.

Bet you rags to riches cultist also think our healthcare is so gougetastic because of dem illegals gettin free emergency room visits. It has been proven the only places with worse social mobility than the USA are places with even more corruption and poverty, aka places with no socialism.

Also FYI north Korea's system is closer to american capitalism than socialism, they let unconnected families who fall on hard times drop dead, literally.

The comment by Thunderlips is almost but not quite correct: some kids actually do attend the good prep schools like Exeter for free.
I attended one of the schools and the nickname for the program for the kids was ABC=A Better Chance.
I don't know what % of the kids with me were those kids, but I later was friends with one kid in college until I transferred.
Oddly enough, he lived in a VERY small town. The town didn't want to operate a school with their small population and budget. So guess what? The TOWN paid for his son to attend the same expensive prep school.
But Thunderlips is correct, in general the students were from families with more to spend on education.
The "racket" I saw was some guys repeated a grade and if they did well in the school, they were going to attend a better college. This seemed to be a crummy prearrangement or some such. My roommate was one of these guys called "PGs"=Post graduates.
Incidentally, the quality of the education was mostly related to the small class size, discipline and rigors of classes even on Saturday mornings. I would not say the average prep school instructor was more capable than a similar teacher at a public city high school.
It's hard to flake out on homework when there are just 10 of you sitting around a big oval table and the teacher looks over at you ready to ask a question.

I unfortunately lack many of the qualities on the list of attributes of millionaires. Darnit.
One that I would put on there somewhere is: "Is motivated to impress females and is therefore driven to success."
How else can you explain a guy buying a ring for $5 million for a woman? You know he wants to be a success to be able to do such gift giving.
The richest person I know made his money the old fashioned way: he inherited it.

Honest Abe says

I'd like to add one more factor to the list: read self-help books.

I think you got that backwards. It should be write self-help books. That is the only proven way that self-help books get people rich.

add to Leoj707:
1. Write book on how to lose weight, targeted to women.
2. write book on how to get rich
3. write book on how the rich got rich
4. write book on the toys, houses, habits, foods, cars of the rich
5. write book on the women of the rich.
6. picture book on the women of the rich
7. picture book on women (random)

How about a TV program called "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"...now that would surely be a hit!

BTW, I would have thought it was implied that you should not only READ self help books...but actually put into practice the advice which is offered.

I want to bake a chocolate cake. (1) read the recipe and take no action does not yield a chocolate cake. BUT (1) read the reciept, (2) gather the ingredients, (3) follow the reciept and baking instructions...and walaa! A chocolate cake.

Doesn't every college and university in America utilize books to educate their students? So are the students encouraged to read, and do nothing. OR are they encouraged to read, and then take appropriate actions? You tell me.

Honest Abe says

BTW, I would have thought it was implied that you should not only READ self help books...but actually put into practice the advice which is offered.

The problem is that the advice given in the get rich advice book is bullshit, and self-masturbatory garbage. Not too dissimilar to the list you used to start this thread.

I doubt that any one of Donald Trumps books says the secret to his success was being born in to a wealthy powerful family and a huge inheritance. I would not be surprised if Trumps book, lecture, celebrity income far and away exceeds any money he made in actual business.

So just as easy as baking a cake:
1. Get born to a wealthy powerful family
2. Inherit millions
3. Write books on how other can get rich like you!

Easy! Abe just follow those steps and soon you will be a billionaire like Trump!

Leo, advice given in self help books is "bullshit"? Really???

Here is a paraphrased piece of advice from any one of a number of financial self help books: SPEND LESS THAN YOU EARN. Obviously no politician other than Ron Paul understands that extreamly complicated and diffucult to understand concept.

For some reason libertarians understand the concept of spending less than what you earn, but you people just can't figure that one out.

Your envy gene is overpowering your logic gene. Oh, I forgot, liberals don't have any logic. Now we're getting to the root of your problem.

BTW, I haven't read any of The Donalds books...have you?

Honest Abe says

Leo, advice given in self help books is "bullshit"? Really???

Here is a paraphrased piece of advice from any one of a number of financial self help books: SPEND LESS THAN YOU EARN.

Yes, I think that it is bullshit when self help books parrot commonsense.

Does it also say: "Buy low sell high!", "make wise investments", etc.?

That is not to say that there are not good books out there that have good advice/info on business, finance, etc., but I would not call these books "self-help". I seriously doubt any "self-help" book marketed as "how to get rich" has much in the way of useful information. These books just prey on the naive and greedy. Books like "The Secret" come to mind.

Honest Abe says

BTW, I haven't read any of The Donalds books...have you?

Not cover to cover. Skimming and spot-reading were enough to let me know that I have no interest in investing my time in reading Trumps' books.

Honest Abe says

Leo, advice given in self help books is "bullshit"? Really???

Yes.

Start Here:
http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

Then Here:
http://www.randomhouse.com/crown/Sham/

The great hoot of them all is Napoleon Hill. It's packed with early 20th century eugenics, and the impressive sounding technical terms from the "Wireless" era - just like Self-help authors like to use a lot of "internet-y" words today. In his day, Madam Blavatsky (SP?) and "Spritualism" was big, whereas in today's Self-help BS books you get a lot of Pali and Hindu terms.

Transmorgify yourself to create riches!

Ben Franklin wrote also, and he showed by his own life the wisdom of his advice.
He was admired, rich, accomplished, retired early and went to France to get chicks.
"Beware of little expenses. A small leak will sink a great ship."
"Beware the hobby that eats." :)
"Employ thy time well, if thou meanest to gain leisure."
"Gain may be temporary and uncertain; but ever while you live, expense is constant and certain: and it is easier to build two chimneys than to keep one in fuel."
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed."
"He that lives upon hope will die fasting."

How to buy happiness:

http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_norton_how_to_buy_happiness.html

clambo says

Ben Franklin wrote also, and he showed by his own life the wisdom of his advice.
He was admired, rich, accomplished, retired early and went to France to get chicks.

Here you go:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/way-to-wealth-benjamin-franklin/1100081080?ean=9781451528084

Please let me know when you make you first billion by following the advice in this book. It should be easy as baking a cake.

leoj707 says

Please let me know when you make you first billion by following the advice in this book. It should be easy as baking a cake.

Who knew you could become rich by being an apprentice cooper? Lots of money in wooden barrels.
clambo says

Ben Franklin wrote also, and he showed by his own life the wisdom of his advice.

He also didn't follow his own advice very much.

Franklin was famous for partying until the early dawn, and feasting a great deal. Even joined a hellfire club.

No nation was ever ruined by trade.

Our necessities never equal our wants.

Rather go to bed with out dinner than to rise in debt.

Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God.

Remember that credit is money.

The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.

There are three faithful friends - an old wife, an old dog, and ready money.

There are two ways of being happy: We must either diminish our wants or augment our means - either may do - the result is the same and it is for each man to decide for himself and to do that which happens to be easier.

Ben Franklin was what we would undoubtedly today would call a very successful guy.
Not only was he successful, he was admired. He was a statesman, a scientist, a businessman, and got French chicks when he could afford to lead his life of leisure.

If you desire many things, many things will seem few.

If you know how to spend less than you get, you have the philosopher's stone.

If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some.

In general, mankind, since the improvement of cookery, eats twice as much as nature requires.

It is the eye of other people that ruin us. If I were blind I would want, neither fine clothes, fine houses or fine furniture.

Money has never made man happy, nor will it, there is nothing in its nature to produce happiness. The more of it one has the more one wants.

He that can have patience can have what he will.

I guess I don't so much mind being old, as I mind being fat and old.

I saw few die of hunger; of eating, a hundred thousand.

clambo, Right on! I'm going to make a note of your comments, very astute!

And how about this: "You are rich when you are satisfied with what you have".

And this: "A small house can hold as much love as a big house".

Finally this: "Never look into another mans pocket".

"With great power comes a high electricity bill"

If I wanted to look up historical quotes, I can do that on my own.

clambo says

I guess I don't so much mind being old, as I mind being fat and old.

I saw few die of hunger; of eating, a hundred thousand.

In general, mankind, since the improvement of cookery, eats twice as much as nature requires.

Sounds more like a weight loss book.

I heard that normalizing for every other variable, the best indicator for how much money someone would make in their life is... The number of math classes they take.

Who knew ??

Finnian says

I heard that normalizing for every other variable, the best indicator for how much money someone would make in their life is... The number of math classes they take.

I wish.

marcus says

I wish.

Yeah, I doubt there is a strong correlation. It would be nice though.

I think there is a correlation, up to a point. Most students going to the very best Univrsities probably took Math at least up to Calculus (even if they are English majors). And then if students are great at MAth, but not so much at other subjects, and therefore not going to a top college or University, they still probably have a good shot at a very good technical career.

Another factor to becoming a millionaire I forgot to list: AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

We still discussing this list Abe made up then attributed it to some "top rated" business coach who chooses to remain anonymous?

You realize Patrick had a link to an article that discussed this exact thing. It includes actual names of actual rich people and things they attribute to their success.

http://www.alternet.org/books/155149/the_self-made_myth%3A_debunking_conservatives%27_favorite_--_and_most_dangerous_--_fiction_?page=1

…interviews with 14 wealthy Americans -- including well-known names like Warren Buffet, Ben Cohen, Abigail Disney, and Amy Domini -- …Over and over, these people credit their wealth to:
* An excellent education received in public schools and universities

* The support of the Small Business Administration and other government agencies

* A strong regulatory environment

* Enforceable copyright and intellectual property laws

* A robust system of roads, ports, airports, and mass transit

* The government's role in creating the Internet

* The ability to issue public stock in a fair, reliable, regulated marketplace

Also, discussed in the article is “The Role of Luck and Timing”.

People who hit the jackpot often ascribe it to their genius or their system.

There was a great study where people were given the same leadup of a man & woman in a dating encounter.

At the end, the story given could bifurcate into a scenario where it either ends romantically or she is dragged away and raped. Startlingly enough, participants in either end scenario tended to attribute either outcome as having been an inevitable consequence of the things the woman did. Despite the fact the scenario was constructed such that the actions of the woman were irrelevant it was just luck whether she was facing a rapist or Mr. Right.

People work from the outcome and RATIONALIZE backwards.

LEO - USE YOUR GOD GIVEN BRAIN - EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO THE 7 ITEMS THOSE RICH GUYS SAY HELPED THEM SUCCEED.

WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE 315 MILLION AMERICANS...WHY AREN'T THEY FILTHY RICH TOO? THEY HAD THE EXACT SAME "STRONG REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT", AND EVERYTHING ELSE ON THAT LIST.

Not that you understand logic Abe, but I think the point was that the government is a necessary condition for success but not that it's a sufficient condition for success.

ie:

Success implies that the support of government was received, but the support of government does not imply success.

Mr. Marcus,

Government is a necessary condition for success? Is that like AIR is necessary for success. Or food is necessary for success?

Please elaborate, I don't understand YOUR logic. Last time I checked, governmental agencies, strong regulations and the like, were roadblocks to success. Hurdles that needed to be overcome.

Robust system or roads and mass transit? Thats government SUPPORT for success? Again, that same SUPPORT was recieved by ALL THE COMPANIES AND BUSINESSES THAT FAILED.

Oh poor me, I coulld NEVER SUCCEED AT ANYTHING WITHOUT MY CARING AND SUPPORTIVE GOVERNMENT. Is that what you actually think???

Does the government put up the capital?
Does the government take the risks?
Does the government make the tough decisions?
Does the government put in the hours?
Does the government put up with all the problems?
Does the government help make payroll?
Does the government hire the employees?
Does the government manage the employees?
Does the government defend junk lawsuits filed by the employees?
Does the government pile on regulations?
Does the government have a blizzard of laws, codes, rules and standards of practice which must be complied with?
Does the government have stiff penalties for lack of compliance?
Does the government assist in the payment of any fees, charges, permits, assessments or taxes from any town, city, county or any other jurisdiction?
Well does it?

In my experience success is something individuals, or groups of individuals, create on their own, in spite of the government.
I'm not saying we don't need government and roads and the internet (Thanks Al Gore!!). We do need government. But success is a personal accomplishment, not something government created or assisted with.

So again? What support did the government provide that allowed success to blossom?

Honest Abe says

So again? What support did the government provide that allowed success to blossom?

The government wrote the constitution, and set up the most free market ever known on this planet.

You can't have a free market without government

CBEO - Government didn't write the constitution. Men who fought for their freedom from oppressive government wrote the constitution, so that men would be free FROM oppressive government.

The free market hasn't been free for approximately 100 years. You can't have a free market WITH government, the pendulum has sung way too far to the un-free side.

(And yes, you need laws to prevent poison from being in food, and you need teachers, and roads, and police. What you don't need are a bunch of busy body liberals micro managing every aspect of everyones personal and business life from cradle to grave). There, I said it.

CBOEtrader says

You can't have a free market without government

You're wasting your time. Abe is a bot programmed that complete anarchy is the correct route to eventual Paradise.

Honest Abe says

What you don't need are a bunch of busy body liberals micro managing every aspect of everyones personal and business life from cradle to grave

I agree with this statement in the same way I agree that we don't need a bullet in the head.

Here's the thing dude. You talk in such extremes, that you don't end up communicating unique content. Sometimes your posts read like the front cover of a Ron Paul book. Bullet points don't tell you much-- Thats why the author writes the whole book.

Forum debate tips (I think we should start this as its own thread)...

1)Don't speak in hyperbole. Saying "OBAMA is the WORST EVER" is a waste of time. Saying "Obama screwed big time when when he XYZ" combined with some supporting evidence, perhaps a historical perspective, etc... might prompt interesting discussion-- which is why we are all here, right?

2)Try to find common ground before pointing out where you disagree. Showing you can relate to where another is coming from will open their mind to your ideas (as well as your mind to their ideas).-- Again, this just makes for a more interesting discussion.

3)Namecalling often makes you appear as whatever you accuse the other to be.

I'd love to hear more tips from those that frequent forums to discuss/learn, rather than to flame.

Honest Abe says

The free market hasn't been free for approximately 100 years

Perhaps, but this is still hyperbole lacking content.

There's no such thing as a completely free market...and every industry is a different shade of grey.

If you want to make this point, try showing specific changes and their impact on an industry. Or perhaps compare a free (er) version of an industry compared to a more controlled version.

For instance, the enormous success of silicon valley is a potential case study for the power of a free market. Technology, the internet, etc... have all been relatively unregulated compared to our more mature industries. Thus, the barriers to entry have often been nonexistent. This resulted in Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, and Zuck to all start companies using little more than the power of their own innovative minds-- creating massive wealth and thousands of jobs for Americans. (Though it should be pointed out that the government shoud NOT stand idly by and let MSFT influence monopoly power.)