patrick.net

I only wish there were more difference between these two candidates. Supreme Court picks, sure. Some rights for some long-underserved groups, maybe.

But in large part, the empire rolls on. Google "lily pad bases" if you don't believe it.

That's right. the tree chopper for paper....the BerryGatherer for ink...OfficeDepot for school desks...etc...etc...blah blah blah....
the little fucker would not have crawled out of his shit filled diapers iffen it wasn't for 3/4 of mankind...

Honest Abe says

More like delusional. That straight A student didn't do it on his own, someone else made that happen.

Love how some folks get all jazzed up about Obama vs. Romney, Repubs vs. Dems. It's all just a grand show for mass consumption with the ruling elite winning regardless of who wins the "election." Sorry, what you think is a choice is really a non-choice. American Democracy: RIP.

CaptainShuddup says

But claiming that successful people didn't build their business on their own, with out the help of roads, in which they somehow owe Obama some part of his Grand scheme. Is telling stories.

Pathetic that you don't understand the point. Actually you must understand it.

There was a time when decent Americans were willing to pay their fair share of taxes. And the truth is that that message, which has been Elizabeth Warren's message too is a message that makes a lot of sense, and most moderate normal Americans (who haven't bought the propaganda) agree with it.

Wtf ? People want so much from the government and they aren't willing to pay for it.

And now they say the answer is privatizing schools and generally paying public workers less.

marcus says

Pathetic that you don't understand the point.

NO You don't understand the insult that is and the slap in the face of every hard working son of a bitch that ever made something of them selves and a better future for their kids.

Marcus your parents are more responsible for your success, like your education, your career, and the values and ethics you have not Obama.
You should have greater self esteem, don't let the bastard get you down.

Fuck Elizabeth too, she can make a Tee Pee in her living room and play cow boy and Indians in her make believe fantasy world she lives in.
But she probably wouldn't follow through with that either.

CaptainShuddup says

NO You don't understand the insult that is and the slap in the face of every hard working son of a bitch that ever made something of them selves and a better future for their kids.

President Obama actually said

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

How anyone can say this is an insult to anyone is totally beyond me. Its a brilliant clip from a psychological standpoint because it goes straight to the paranoid republican id ("he hates success!") But the whole quote makes it clear that this is not the case.

Whats even more galling is that Obama was clearly trying to show people how we have a common purpose and are to a great extent all in this together and need to help each other. And it was deceptively edited to sound like he was being divisive.

Well let's just say Obama is no Fucking John Kennedy, I think we can put that misnomer to bed once and for all right now.
There was always only one way to interpret Kenedy's speeches.

Of course Obama meant it as the Rich and Successful owe HIM something.
That speech was in the height of the OWS movement. There's only one way to interpret it, and that's what he meant by it. If you want to spin it, and make excuses for his misspoken words, be my guest. But I'm not listening to you, you don't have a pen with the official presidential seal on it either.

Every speech Obama does is to divide the country. His speeches always have an "Us against them" under tone and theme. He starts every speech with "The mess he inherited".

President Romney wont engage in such skulduggery.

CaptainShuddup says

Every speech Obama does is to divide the country. His speeches always have an "Us against them" under tone and theme.

Yeah, it's terrible the way he's playing his cards, and that he wants to be reelected, the way he talks truthfully about the differences between what people get with him versus Romney.

Yeah well all I can say, "Thank God the majority of American's have been told to ignore what goes on in Washington" so they do.
They will be voting in November based on how their lives are effected by the policy at hand. Not by what the Geeks under the Freak show tent on Capitol hill are doing, or not doing as it were.

CaptainShuddup says

Every speech Obama does is to divide the country. His speeches always have an "Us against them" under tone and theme. He starts every speech with "The mess he inherited".

President Romney wont engage in such skulduggery.

Yeah right, that "divide" exacerbated itself with Sarah Impaled's comments about "real americans." If that's not divisive, I don't know what is. At no point during any of Barack's speeches did I feel any divisiveness at all.

Honest Abe says

That straight A student didn't do it on his own, someone else made that happen.

I agree that the student is the one who earned their success.

But if the students was poor, thank goodness there were good public schools where his or her gifts could take root where he or she could get the support they deserve.

(yeah, yeah, I know...public schools aren't all good. True. All private schools aren't good either. It is very tough in some neighborhoods for a public school to work miracles. They take everyone that the private schools don't get. But even there, in those worst neighborhoods, a lot of children in unfortunate situations are given opportunities that they deserve and that they ( yes THEY) take advantage of, at least sometimes.

Damn! The trolls almost brought me down to their level made me respond.

Amazing how a little bit of misdirection can send a discussion thread careening around like the (late) Ted Kennedy behind the wheel of a car.

On Thursday July 19, the good Captain posts a blog entry from May 11, citing it as "proof" that Romney is winning and will win

The source for this claim is from the Rasmussen organization, based upon their polling data. Only one problem: Rasmussen, as of July 20, now has Obama in the lead in the popular vote, based upon their, ummm, shall we say, slightly more recent polling data:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows President Obama attracting 47% of the vote, while Mitt Romney earns 46%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and four percent (4%) more are undecided.

Indeed, since the information at that link changes daily, it is (until the next update) what you see when you follow the link provided at the blog entry to Rasmussen. Ciggy man Obama (wonder what his brand of choice is?) ahead. Holy Underwear dude trailing.

In any event, presuming Rasmussen as a reliable source, what we've seen is Holy Underwear dude dropping in the polls (by 4%) and Ciggy man Obama rising (by 4%). From May 11 to July 19. If the trend is your friend, it sure looks like Romney is losing ground and Obama is gaining it. And this, please note, is using nothing but the same source as the good Captain.

Inquiring minds are curious why a May blog entry is being posted on July 19th. Excessive sugar consumption, perhaps? An inability to read the calendar? Something else? I did accuse the Captain of "misdirection" at the start of my post. But perhaps that is unfair. I await an explanation of the three month disconnect with greatest curiosity. And if the Captain needs help with figuring which month follows which month, I will be happy to tutor him, free of charge.

So has Mittens done enough good deeds to get his own planet?

Elwood just layeth the smack down.

Obama had a real chance to go to bat for the American people but didn't. I also think he will be re-elected.

HRHMedia,

Point #1: when Obama took office I felt he had a chance to show leadership but all he did was blame Bush. as the leader of the free world you do not blame your former or current government anyone for anything.You simply address the problems and deal with it. Blaming is NOT leadership.

Point #2: we had more pressing problems in the country and all it seemed like Obama forced healthcare in Congress in 2000+ page bill that nobody read. As the leader of the free world it is more important to tackle the nations problems at hand above your agenda..

Point #3: the national debt almost doubled under Obama in 4 years than Bush ran it up in 8.

#1 HRH Media says:
Who wouldn't , the whole word did. Will you blame Obama for killin Bin Laden or blame bush for not killing him? How about ending the Iraq war.

- the USS Cole was attacked under Clintons watch ... we had a wide open shot at him. Neither president got Bin laden, our Navy SEALS did.

#2 HRH Media says:
Healthcare is very pressing, a family of four is paying as much as $20k a year. For the past 80yrs they have been trying to fix it. To place blame on Obama for trying to fix a problem bankrupting millions of Americans is stupid.

- There was a lot more in that bill then simple healthcare reform. It doesn't take 2000 pages to mandate insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions or force them not to raise rates effective immediately not in 2014. Unfortunately ObamaCare is a TAX... we will be paying for it one way or another.

#3 HRH Media says:
$5 Trillion unfunded by BUSH, 2 wars, healthcare, tax cuts and much much more.

- gratefully we have not been attacked again and it seemed like any additional plots after 9/11 have thus far been foiled.

regardless of who is president, you should not blame

both parties deserve a failing grade...

CaptainDB you can get great odds on Romney. Way better than even money.

So if you really believe he will win you should put your money where your mouth is.

Obama's point is well taken.

But the way he phrased it is a direct insult to everyone who's ever taken the risks involved in starting up a successful business.

So the bigger question is, why did he insult small business owners? He's intelligent enough to know exactly what he was saying.

One likely answer: To demean them in the eyes of the public, making it easier to garner support to increase the tax burden on them.

"likely" due to his well established proclivity to raising taxes.

bdrasin says

How anyone can say this is an insult to anyone is totally beyond me

xrpb11a says

Obama's point is well taken.

But the way he phrased it is a direct insult to everyone who's ever taken the risks involved in starting up a successful business.

So the bigger question is, why did he insult small business owners? He's intelligent enough to know exactly what he was saying.

You find it insulting when someone says: "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together"? I think that's either great arrogance on your part, or a sincere desire to find something to be offended about.

HRHMedia says

How is Obama the worst president?

He's just the worst one in a long time, FDR was worse.

So what part of "Obama's point is well taken" is it that you don't understand?

bdrasin says

xrpb11a says

Obama's point is well taken.

But the way he phrased it is a direct insult to everyone who's ever taken the risks involved in starting up a successful business.

So the bigger question is, why did he insult small business owners? He's intelligent enough to know exactly what he was saying.

You find it insulting when someone says: "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together"? I think that's either great arrogance on your part, or a sincere desire to find something to be offended about.

No. I find it insulting to insert a Business Owner Demeaning sentence in the middle of a normal stump speech, just to jazz up his base.

bdrasin says

You find it insulting when someone says: "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together"?

What OBama said made sense, in fact it's something everyone knows roto be true, but there are a lot of extremely stupid people on the right that are more than willing to gobble up the most ridiculous ways that NewsCorp spins things.

xrpb11a says

OB could have phrased it differently. But he did not. Why?

Because in he sees the world through the eyes of an elite university professor...
Thats his world.. certainly not from the view point of the small, med or large business owner.

xrpb11a says

When I started my business

You like many business owners owe the government your fortunes...

You've missed the boat completely.
OB said that directly to me, without any other media outlet's help.

marcus says

What OBama said made sense, in fact it's something everyone knows roto be true, but there are a lot of extremely stupid people on the right that are more than willing to gobble up the most ridiculous ways that NewsCorp spins things.

don't worry. It looks like the government is coming to collect....

thomaswong.1986 says

xrpb11a says

When I started my business

You like many business owners owe the government your fortunes...

I'm not sure where you found this poll, but from what I''ve seen Obama is well ahead of Romney in the polls - even from the highly respected Fox "News"

Pollster Dates Pop. Obama Romney Undecided Margin
Rasmussen 7/17 - 7/19 1,500 LV 47 46 - Obama +1
Gallup 7/13 - 7/19 3,000 RV 48 44 - Obama +4
FOX 7/15 - 7/17 901 RV 45 41 11 Obama +4
Rasmussen 7/14 - 7/16 1,500 LV 44 47 - Romney +3
YouGov/Economist 7/14 - 7/16 742 RV 47 44 5 Obama +3
CBS/Times 7/11 - 7/16 942 RV 46 47 5 Romney +1
DailyKos/SEIU/PPP (D) 7/12 - 7/15 1,000 RV 48 46 7 Obama +2
Rasmussen 7/11 - 7/13 1,500 LV 46 45 - Obama +1
NPR 7/9 - 7/12 1,000 LV 47 45 5 Obama +2
Gallup 7/6 - 7/12 3,000 RV 46 46 - -

The funny thing is, that even if Obama slipped up in the way he said what he was saying, even the critics know full well what he meant.

It's getting to the issue of the taxes paid by high income people. Taxes should be more progressive for a number of reasons, including the fact that the government, the infrastructure, the law (actually the country itself) and market environment are all interconnected, and yes they help make success possible. No true conservative questions this. And yet while they get it, they love to jump on one out of context sentence that was basically a slip.

It's basically: "Let's see, I get his message, but I'm pretty sure I can jump on the way he said it and we can misconstrue and have a good ole time."

You know the point he was trying to make. "Every man for himself" is not what made this country great. And some big important decisions are going to have to be made soon, about spending priorities and taxation.

If you want you can argue that the real reason for our governments debts is greedy unions and out of control government workers.

But it also might have a little to do with:

1) Costly tax cuts that were given mostly to high incomes
2) Off book wars, that cost trillions
3) GDP and revenues being lower than expected, due to a financial crisis that was brought about largely by financial markets and lending practices run amok

xrpb11a says

Oh? Who did Pierre Omidyar cooperate with when he started Auction Web, the precursor to Ebay, as a sole proprietor?

The enterprise value of what became ebay was built on the legal system as provided by the State, and also of course the internet itself, which was also initially created by the State, partially thanks to Al Gore, who took the initiative in its creation, before being handed off to private entities to commercialize.

marcus says

GDP and revenues being lower than expected, due to a financial crisis that was brought about largely by financial markets and lending practices run amok

this is . . . incorrect. It's not the crisis or the "bad lending" that is killing "growth", it's the fact that the growth of the Bush years was predicated on the bad lending in the first place.

This lending was essentially "stimulus" spending, $7T mainlined right into the middle class. When it failed, so went the Bush Economy, such as it was.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=8WZ

blue line is year-on-year borrowing, red line is YOY job growth.

Helloeeze says

am not claiming Obama is against business. I am saying he doesn't understand what it takes to start a business and have employees, etc, or he wouldn't make statements that glibly toss off the hard work and personal sacrifice that business owners go through.

that's just right-wing bullshit and not what Obama in his speech said at all.

xrpb11a says

Taken in context with the whole paragraph, it is understood that a business is a cooperative effort between labor and management.

Not at all. Here's the offending paragraph:

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business–you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

He's talking about all that's come before and exists today. The schools, the teachers, the legal system, the general social capital of honest dealing and lack of graft, and the actual infrastructure.

The "building" is referred to the above, not the business itself.

Anybody reading it "that" to refer to the business is being intentionally dense, or a conservative, but I repeat myself.