patrick.net

If its a short sale. There kind of is no owner.

If its an REO the same.

Banks 'dont care' how these transactions are handled they actually CANT care as they have zero visibility on the offers or how its handled - they only see the offer sent from listing agent.

If its an organic equity sale maybe you could contact the owner - but they are pre hynotized by the listing agent and you will come off as crazy most of the time, IMO.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

And the homes are only 1-2 weeks on the fucking market!

Hey that's pretty good! Everything I want to buy is pending the day it is listed on MLS. I wish I had 1-2wks to deal.

You sound like someone that just discovered that every realtor out there has a back pocket full of investors that have offers in place before the home even reaches MLS, at least on anything worthwhile. Hard to compete.

But if you can't beat em, join em. I did.

BayArea says

But if you can't beat em, join em. I did.

Ok. So tell me how do you join?
robertoaribas says

sorry, the elemental laws of Supply and Demand are not suspended for the permabears on Patrick.net

I never said they were.robertoaribas says

because there is no inventory

That I agree with.
robertoaribas says

lots of demand

In proportion to inventory I strongly agree. However... Otherwise, I strongly disagree that there is a lot of housing demand.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

BayArea says
But if you can't beat em, join em. I did.

Ok. So tell me how do you join?

For starters, what is the process you are using in attempts to acquire property? Who is your representation and what type of property are you attempting to acquire (ie: ballpark location/price range)?

BayArea says

For starters, what is the process you are using in attempts to acquire property? Who is your representation and what type of property are you attempting to acquire (ie: ballpark location/price range)?

I represent myself. I do not use a buyers agent. I do use an Attorney for contracts.

I use the listing agent of any property I am interested in.

I am attempting to acquire residential single family homes or multiple family homes in nassau county or suffolk county (must not be too far east, should be relatively close to nassau.) in Long Island.

The most I am willing to spend on closing price is $280,000. Location should be a decent area with low crime and the property should have low yearly taxes. In terms of decency, I'm not looking for Beverly Hills standards but the area should be at least average, not run-down, gang-infested or a high-crime area.

Location is very important to me. I want the best location I can get for my budget.

Lot size should be decent and living square foot area should be decent along with the condition of the home. At least 3 bedrooms & 2 bedrooms along with a finished basement.

Ok, it sounds like you are at least ahead of most people who haven't yet realized that with inventories as low as they are, working with a buyer's agent results in nothing good, unless you are willing to go astronomically above everyone elses offer, and even then it's not guaranteed... lot's of lost time, expended energy, unneeded paperwork, a hit to your credit from getting your credit checked every 45 days for preapproval updating, spamming patrick.net will all kinds of "out of left field" posts, and general frustration (had to throw the comment in there about the spamming ;-)

It's become a ballgame where the only realtors getting paid are listing realtors and realtors who are business partners with listing realtors (situations where double dipping is not allowed by the bank). You have to give them some incentive to help you. The most attractive incentive is of course commission. Double dipping is preferred obviously and for situations where double dipping is not possible, realtors love to pass that commission off to their immediate business partners and vice-versa, sometimes with special agreements between them over how they split it among themselves.

With your price range, there's more than likely going to be a lot of investor competition. We are in a unique time right now where middle class real estate investors have emerged due to low prices and low interest rate - Something I have not seen in my lifetime on this level. Competion is fierce.

If I were you, I would do some research and identify the "big dawg" realtors in your area. I'm talking about the ones who have a reputation for moving property and are typically on the listing end of the stick. There is actually a web-site out there that will tell you which realtor moves the most property in any given area (you'll have to find that link yourself). And sure, it's not the most ethical approach, (but what is in this business), but get all of them working for you. Make it clear to them that you are an investor, are pre-approved with excellent credit, have available references, and to notify you right away the moment they have a property available (pssst, before it's on MLS). May the best realtor win. I call it free market realtor competition ;-) Although it's additional work, befriending a couple of them is not a bad idea.

A buyer's agent won't do anything for you right now, as you know. But a listing agent can pull some strings for you however. To be completely fair, there is one thing that a buyer's agent is good for. If they are aggressive and good at what they do, they may be able to pull a listing for you by pounding the pavement and identifying potential short sellers. If they are successful, maybe one day you could be in a situation where your property goes pending the day it comes out on MLS, only this time you will be on the right side of that fense.

Best of luck.

BayArea says

Best of luck.

Thanks for the advice. +1

I'll do exactly that. And yes, I already knew that buyer's agents are just useless meat you have to carry around.

I was on the refin boards reading complaints from buyers how they 'keep losing biding wars'.

Not one person suggested HEY DONT USE A REDFIN/buyers agent which is tip #1.

I learned the hard way in this game like everyone else.

People using a buyers agent are not serious buyers. It boils down to that.

Robber Baron,
Thanks for the very entertaining comments. I enjoyed reading it all. The Raw truth is you don't know how to buy a property.
In the last few months I purchased 3 properties in a high demand area of California, from a total of 5 that I could have purchased. I was running out of cash, so I stayed with 3.
Here is one trick to use on a short sale. Just bribe the present homeowner (if they are still around). The banks won't let a penny go to the homeowner, but they don't need to know everything. The seller will make sure no one else gets in.

Raw might be right. I havent bought a short sale before.

Its so crazy and dysfunctional that its come down to this.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I represent myself. I do not use a buyers agent. I do use an Attorney for contracts.

Same here.

There's a place I really like that is bank owned. The asking price is 1.195M. I want to offer 600K. Its been on the market for a couple months. Would I be wasting my time making a lowball as extreme as that?

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I am attempting to acquire residential single family homes or multiple family homes in nassau county or suffolk county (must not be too far east, should be relatively close to nassau.) in Long Island.

The most I am willing to spend on closing price is $280,000. Location should be a decent area with low crime and the property should have low yearly taxes. In terms of decency, I'm not looking for Beverly Hills standards but the area should be at least average, not run-down, gang-infested or a high-crime area.

Location is very important to me. I want the best location I can get for my budget.

Does anything fit those requirements in a decent section (not Hempstead or parts of Westbury) of Nassau?

I grew up in Syosset and nothing special split-type houses in Syosset and Jericho sold for $300-400,000-ish in the early 90's I remember.

The prices on Long Island are pretty good today - they seem to regressed about 15 years or more to what I'd call relatively fair value. It's a MUCH better value for space and all else than here in San Francisco area, for instance. I could buy much more house than we did here, recently.

http://www.danielgale.com/IDXDetail.aspx?mlsnum=2491083&city=Oyster-Bay-Cove&address=51-Sandy-Hill-Rd&page=14&mlstableid=LIBORMLSDGALEOFFICERES&sp=y&segmentid=2682685&uid=65331&htmlfile=property_properties-for-sale_shell.html&origurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.danielgale.com%2fproperty_properties-for-sale.html

This happens to be a friend's home trying to sell for almost a year now. A few bites and nothing more. It would've sold for $1.3 in 2000, likely....now the nibbles are all for less as there is such a glut of inventory there available for these larger properties in pristine locations.

Robber Baron Elite SCUM-

Your original rant leaves me scratching my head. Somehow, if a property is a good deal (i.e. listed at a low price), why is it that you think you would be the only one to recognize it? So you bitch and whine and complain because someone else bought it?

Well, hey now, just wait a while and prices will rise until there is less competition and there will be more properties available. But wait a second, then they will not be a "good deal" (buyer perspective) at the higher prices.

So you want it all served to you on a golden platter. Really, kiss off dude. Learn the market and how the dynamics work or get out, but no matter what, don't whine about it. It makes you sound weak and pathetic.

I think this is the first time I have ever really bitched about a post but yours is the cream of the crop. This "spike" in prices could run out of steam in the winter months (maybe nobody told you this but real estate is cyclical with more sales in the summer) and not come back. My crystal ball is still in the shop.

There have been years of good deals. What were you doing then? The only thing you are elite at is probably eating. God, I'm just ruthless this morning, what the hell is in my coffee??

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Perhaps they are lying

They aren't lying. Anything that would be remotely intresting to an investor will have multiple offers within 24 hours. Roberto, myself and others have been saying this for like 6 months, but dufasses on this board keep trying to say otherwise.

Welcome to reality..

They might well be lying. It's bait and switch if they use your call to try to sell you anything.

If they just tell you to piss off, then the house probably actually is under contract.

So from what I read here, the investing is causing a lot of competition and preventing people who want to buy a home to live in from getting any good deals. We are looking for a home and as the OP stated, every interesting home we see is suddenly 'active with contract' and unavailable for us. This has been going on for months. It happens EVERY time.

Won't this cause a new inflation in pricing? Is it the banks and the investors who are making it difficult for normal families to find a nice home at a good price? Is there no place or way for a family to buy a home without having to fight the government, banks and investors?

I am seriously considering buying new construction just to get this done and over with. Its frustrating to find a home that is perfect for our family when each time we go to look at it, its gone. Homes are not just for investing and playing the market, they are also for people to live in and raise families.

No offence intended and I have nothing against people making a profit in any way they can with this economy, but it seems like the actual family home buyer is getting pushed out of the whole game.

robertoaribas says

hj2222 says

Won't this cause a new inflation in pricing?

Yes. When there is too much demand relative to supply, prices will increase. However, investors (shouldn't) chase prices up beyond a certain point, because when prices are too high, the rent doesn't make sense anymore. With interest rates near zero though, that point is higher than it would be otherwise.

So its still a good time to buy and at some point the investing will subside to allow for families to find good deals? I hope this happens soon. Our lease is over in January and we can buy a bigger and better home for almost half of what we pay for rent.

It seems to me that it would be better for the economy if more renters were able to buy these homes and save a few hundred each month.

civilsid says

Your original rant leaves me scratching my head.

Your bullish stance leaves me scratching my head.

civilsid says

Somehow, if a property is a good deal (i.e. listed at a low price), why is it that you think you would be the only one to recognize it?

Because serfs like you are idiot saps. You peasants have already been financially raped into debt... Yet are still eager for more?

WTF?

civilsid says

Well, hey now, just wait a while and prices will rise until there is less competition and there will be more properties available. But wait a second, then they will not be a "good deal" (buyer perspective) at the higher prices.

That statement proves you have no basic fundamental knowledge of economics.

civilsid says

So you want it all served to you on a golden platter

Why shouldn't I? I'm not the serf taking a mortgage to buy some dump.

civilsid says

Really, kiss off dude.

Make me.

civilsid says

Learn the market and how the dynamics work or get out

Do you know a Realtor® that can teach me the "dynamics" of the market?

Sounds like some anal fun & entertainment.

I'm eager to consider!

civilsid says

but no matter what, don't whine about it. It makes you sound weak and pathetic.

You are right. Nobody should whine about a Realtor®'s financial ass-rape. It's doesn't make me look good in front of family and friends.

civilsid says

think this is the first time I have ever really bitched

Well, you are a nancy-boy. That's what you do.

civilsid says

but real estate is cyclical with more sales in the summer

Not in a Neo-Nazi Cannibal Apocalypse scenario.

Maybe more homes are sold as barbecue grills to Neo-Nazi Cannibals to make Realtor® Medium Rare Steak during the summer...

But certainly not otherwise.

civilsid says

There have been years of good deals.

I'm not even going try with this idiotic nonsense. You are sounding now like either 1) A Troll. 2) A Sap Peasant.

civilsid says

What were you doing then?

Preparing for the Imminent Cannibal Anarchy after seeing how many saps were willing to grab those "good deals".

civilsid says

The only thing you are elite at is probably eating.

Of course. Eat or be eaten. Welcome to America, idiot.

civilsid says

God, I'm just ruthless this morning, what the hell is in my coffee??

Keep your self-delusions of worthiness to yourself.

hj2222 says

So its still a good time to buy and at some point the investing will subside to allow for families to find good deals? I hope this happens soon.

As noted above... If prices continue to rise reaching a point where buying is no longer cheaper than renting, then yes the investing will subside and families will have less offer competition than they are seeing now.

HOWEVER, that's not necessarily as good a thing as you seem to think it is. When investors start walking away, you know things have been sucked dry. It's less attractive to buy today then it was one year ago, but investor activity is still very high.

Here is a tip for you. When valuing a property, identify the rents in the area and make a table showing the price to rent ratios in surrounding areas. Using that along with the recent comps will give you a pretty good idea of whether or not this is a property worth pursuing.

Also, with low inventory, record low interest rates, and real estate being bought up by investors at a rate we've never seen in the history of man, I am extremely weary of any home in CA that isn't pending within days of coming on the market (this applies to low end and middle class homes primarily).

The problem is two fold. For the last 4 years, investors have been the primary buyers, buying with cash.

Those investors have pushed DOWN the prices because cash buyers always buy at a discount. If you're offering up 100% cash, then you expect a discount. Just like buying at the court house steps. You aren't buying because it's a good house, or a place you want to live, you buy because it's a good deal and makes sense. Now all the comparisons are based off THOSE prices, which are cash investor prices.

Appraisers are now essentially building out comps using cash investor pricing. When YOU see the prices listed you think to yourself, oh wow! a great deal! I want it. I'll offer 25% down.

But there are still PLENTY of cash investors out there. They have already laid masses of ground work and shown realtors they will close fast and they won't screw with them.

Now a place gets listed, it gets appraised and it's a good deal. Realtors already have a list of people who they KNOW will close quickly. So as soon as one of them bites, it's GONE.

Now, why won't they accept your HIGHER offer? For several reasons.
1) Your higher offer simply won't appraise. You need to get a loan, and the bank will get an appraisal and that will come back close to the offering price most likely. Now the realtors have to do extra work. You might say, ok I'll buy, but I can't buy above what it appraised for because the bank won't lend me the money. Now instead of getting a better price for the house, they're getting the same price that the cash buyer offered AND they have to wait for contingencies to be waived, they have to wait for a bank to give the loan or decline, they have to wait to see if the buyer will back out.
2) You offer up a cash offer, but you haven't done any business with them. They have no idea if you'll close or not. While their cash investor that they called up WILL close, and will do it in 3 days, not 30 days after contingencies are met. You might still back out, and that could screw them. A good cash investor will simply say they waive everything, we'll get this through escrow in 3 days vs a whiny buyer trying to nickel and dime a deal. Even if you ARE NOT going to be whiny, you have no history, so they assume you will, vs their proven list of investors.

So, when will your offers start to be accepted? When there aren't any more cash buyers willing to do 3 day closes on an appraised price that makes sense for them. That basically means you're not going to see any of these deals, because you simply don't have what it takes to close.

Get yourself a realtor, show them you're going to close immediately and they will start to get your name out there as a professional who will close, without screwing anyone over. That, or spend weeks/months talking to every realtor you can find and show them you're a pro, but you're going to use your lawyer to do it. Eventually you'll find an agent who will show a buyer you have the best offer.

hahaha. That's funny! Go SCUM! I heard your head was missing, I recommend you call your proctologist.

On a more intelligent note- pkennedy has many good points. But the seller / banks are so insane sometimes that they insist you close in a tight time frame but they are never able to even get the proper signatures in place from the seller side to comply.

I have not ever head of a 3 day closing, from a buyer side- I would at the very least insist on a preliminary title report to review any possible inconsistencies or discrepencies. Of course I can go to the county recorder and do my own research but that is still not going to get you an owner's title policy in that amount of time. Are you actually talking about something akin to a quit claim? I have bought property unseen because the price was right but I have never waived the right to review title prior to money going hard.

Please elaborate.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I also suspect that the brokers tell their agents to say it's in contract when it is not because the Broker wants to buy it himself and flip it.
And all of times on redfin along with everywhere else it says that it is not in contract. And the listing even stays active 2 weeks later that they told me it's in contract.

Even if a Broker could afford to purchase a house, rather than pay their electric bill most wouldn't be flipping it in this market. During the bubble I knew lots of Realtors putting very low deposit on new construction then playing games to raise the prices of the other properties.

The listing is kept active 1) so they keep getting buyers to call. They either try to sell them other houses or use them for backup offers. 2) Once you close the sale, if the transaction falls through they have to enter the whole listing all over again. (however, some systems allow a "B" designation which stands for "accepting backup offers" I'm not sure how Redin handles that.) 3) It will show on the property history that the deal fell through. They don't want that.

Most Boards will fine the Broker a measley $100 for this infraction but it gets more serious the more times it happens. Other Realtors hate when another Realtor does this because it make them call for nothing when they want to show the house. In most MLS systems there's an easy utility to "report data errors" so it's easy to get caught.

PockyClipsNow says

but they are pre hynotized by the listing agent and you will come off as crazy most of the time,

Even though it's foolish to continue to employ someone you don't trust remember the seller is under contract. They often hate the listing agent but feel they're stuck. If you think something fishy is going on send a copy to the seller with a nice letter saying why their home is special to you, and give a little information about yourself and include your phone number. Home owners have an emotional attachment to the house and will often accept your lower offer if they feel good about you. I know I have.

Raw says

Here is one trick to use on a short sale. Just bribe the present homeowner (if they are still around). The banks won't let a penny go to the homeowner, but they don't need to know everything. The seller will make sure no one else gets in.

Sounds like a possibility but short sellers are often desperate. What's preventing them from keeping the bribe? Also how will they make sure no one else gets in?

Just sit out this year. The President will have to make some tough choices December-February, and we will likely see another recession pretty soon.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

If buyers have that many fucking competitors there is no way it is a buyers market. It's time to sell, not buy.

The reason investors are called vultures is they are meant to eat the rotting roadkill that no one else wants. There was a time Realtors wouldn't even show an REO. Now the public is often asking to see only short sales and REOs. Thanks to the press everyone is looking for a bargain and believes they can get it. So now properties the vulture would polish up and flip or rent out the general public is in on. How dare they!

BayArea says

We are in a unique time right now where middle class real estate investors have emerged due to low prices and low interest rate - Something I have not seen in my lifetime on this level. Competion is fierce.

Ordinary people who don't want to make 1% are coming into the mix. I'm surprised Carton Sheets and the like hasn't had a comeback.

War says

The days of paying in excess of $150k for a depreciating asset like a house are long over.

I thought you'd been banned again. Presumably Patrick didn't get round to this particular account.
As for your post, ha-ha.

BayArea says

Make it clear to them that you are an investor, are pre-approved with excellent credit, have available references, and to notify you right away the moment they have a property available (pssst, before it's on MLS). May the best realtor win. I call it free market realtor competition ;-) Although it's additional work, befriending a couple of them is not a bad idea.

When I was a listing agent I wouldn't deal with anything out of the ordinary like that. There's no profit in it. Just trouble. All an agent has to do is get the seller to price it right and it sells. Always has always will. If you can find anyone that would do dirty deals with you means you are dealing with a scumbag and a fool. Why would you want to deal with someone like that?

Reminds me of the the Groucho Marks saying, "I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member."

hj2222 says

So from what I read here, the investing is causing a lot of competition and preventing people who want to buy a home to live in from getting any good deals.

As a traditional home buyer you should always be able to outbid an investor. If you can't then you're in competition with a fool who's willing to buy at retail. If you do lose out to a vulture at least take comfort in the fact that he will be on food stamps in a couple of years.

pkennedy says

Those investors have pushed DOWN the prices because cash buyers always buy at a discount. If you're offering up 100% cash, then you expect a discount.

If they don't have any people with half decent credit making offers they might give a discount for cash but in my area I've seen FHA buyers beat out cash buyers every time. It's the sellers who've had a couple of FHA buyers fall through that are open to giving a discount for cash. IF they can afford it. Usually they need top dollar to pay off their mortgage.

pkennedy says

Now, why won't they accept your HIGHER offer? For several reasons.
1) Your higher offer simply won't appraise. You need to get a loan, and the bank will get an appraisal and that will come back close to the offering price most likely. Now the realtors have to do extra work.

The Realtor doesn't run the show the sellers do. The seller first has to see for themself the house won't appraise. They think their garbge is gold at first. It would help to target sellers where you see the sale fell through once or twice. By then they just want the nightmare of selling a house to end.

civilsid says

have not ever head of a 3 day closing, from a buyer side- I would at the very least insist on a preliminary title report to review any possible inconsistencies or discrepencies.

I recently sold my condo and it closed in two days. Usually what holds it up is the title insurance. You need a title company who's willing to call in some favors.

ELC says

If you can't then you're in competition with a fool who's willing to buy at retail.

GREAT line. As I have said numerous times, if you don't see the sucker in the game, the sucker is YOU.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I also suspect that the brokers tell their agents to say it's in contract when it is not because the Broker wants to buy it himself and flip it.

I suspect that it's realtor speak for they want you to submit a high offer.

Submit a rather high offer and see if the "contract" falls through the next day or week. Then you know something was most likely not kosher.

Good tips pls.
Does anyone know LA market?

I am looking to purchase a house in LA. I have a very young family.
LA is souited best for my work. I know LA fairly well.
But not sure which neighborhood to buy.
I have $400k cash to spend may be a little bit more.

What type of house should I expect for my budget?
Is culver city out of question?
Does anyone know a good listing agent?
How do I grab a good deal?
Which neighborhood has good school?
Is it the right time to buy in LA?

i appreciate any good advise.