patrick.net

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Perhaps they are lying

They aren't lying. Anything that would be remotely intresting to an investor will have multiple offers within 24 hours. Roberto, myself and others have been saying this for like 6 months, but dufasses on this board keep trying to say otherwise.

Welcome to reality..

They might well be lying. It's bait and switch if they use your call to try to sell you anything.

If they just tell you to piss off, then the house probably actually is under contract.

So from what I read here, the investing is causing a lot of competition and preventing people who want to buy a home to live in from getting any good deals. We are looking for a home and as the OP stated, every interesting home we see is suddenly 'active with contract' and unavailable for us. This has been going on for months. It happens EVERY time.

Won't this cause a new inflation in pricing? Is it the banks and the investors who are making it difficult for normal families to find a nice home at a good price? Is there no place or way for a family to buy a home without having to fight the government, banks and investors?

I am seriously considering buying new construction just to get this done and over with. Its frustrating to find a home that is perfect for our family when each time we go to look at it, its gone. Homes are not just for investing and playing the market, they are also for people to live in and raise families.

No offence intended and I have nothing against people making a profit in any way they can with this economy, but it seems like the actual family home buyer is getting pushed out of the whole game.

robertoaribas says

hj2222 says

Won't this cause a new inflation in pricing?

Yes. When there is too much demand relative to supply, prices will increase. However, investors (shouldn't) chase prices up beyond a certain point, because when prices are too high, the rent doesn't make sense anymore. With interest rates near zero though, that point is higher than it would be otherwise.

So its still a good time to buy and at some point the investing will subside to allow for families to find good deals? I hope this happens soon. Our lease is over in January and we can buy a bigger and better home for almost half of what we pay for rent.

It seems to me that it would be better for the economy if more renters were able to buy these homes and save a few hundred each month.

civilsid says

Your original rant leaves me scratching my head.

Your bullish stance leaves me scratching my head.

civilsid says

Somehow, if a property is a good deal (i.e. listed at a low price), why is it that you think you would be the only one to recognize it?

Because serfs like you are idiot saps. You peasants have already been financially raped into debt... Yet are still eager for more?

WTF?

civilsid says

Well, hey now, just wait a while and prices will rise until there is less competition and there will be more properties available. But wait a second, then they will not be a "good deal" (buyer perspective) at the higher prices.

That statement proves you have no basic fundamental knowledge of economics.

civilsid says

So you want it all served to you on a golden platter

Why shouldn't I? I'm not the serf taking a mortgage to buy some dump.

civilsid says

Really, kiss off dude.

Make me.

civilsid says

Learn the market and how the dynamics work or get out

Do you know a Realtor® that can teach me the "dynamics" of the market?

Sounds like some anal fun & entertainment.

I'm eager to consider!

civilsid says

but no matter what, don't whine about it. It makes you sound weak and pathetic.

You are right. Nobody should whine about a Realtor®'s financial ass-rape. It's doesn't make me look good in front of family and friends.

civilsid says

think this is the first time I have ever really bitched

Well, you are a nancy-boy. That's what you do.

civilsid says

but real estate is cyclical with more sales in the summer

Not in a Neo-Nazi Cannibal Apocalypse scenario.

Maybe more homes are sold as barbecue grills to Neo-Nazi Cannibals to make Realtor® Medium Rare Steak during the summer...

But certainly not otherwise.

civilsid says

There have been years of good deals.

I'm not even going try with this idiotic nonsense. You are sounding now like either 1) A Troll. 2) A Sap Peasant.

civilsid says

What were you doing then?

Preparing for the Imminent Cannibal Anarchy after seeing how many saps were willing to grab those "good deals".

civilsid says

The only thing you are elite at is probably eating.

Of course. Eat or be eaten. Welcome to America, idiot.

civilsid says

God, I'm just ruthless this morning, what the hell is in my coffee??

Keep your self-delusions of worthiness to yourself.

hj2222 says

So its still a good time to buy and at some point the investing will subside to allow for families to find good deals? I hope this happens soon.

As noted above... If prices continue to rise reaching a point where buying is no longer cheaper than renting, then yes the investing will subside and families will have less offer competition than they are seeing now.

HOWEVER, that's not necessarily as good a thing as you seem to think it is. When investors start walking away, you know things have been sucked dry. It's less attractive to buy today then it was one year ago, but investor activity is still very high.

Here is a tip for you. When valuing a property, identify the rents in the area and make a table showing the price to rent ratios in surrounding areas. Using that along with the recent comps will give you a pretty good idea of whether or not this is a property worth pursuing.

Also, with low inventory, record low interest rates, and real estate being bought up by investors at a rate we've never seen in the history of man, I am extremely weary of any home in CA that isn't pending within days of coming on the market (this applies to low end and middle class homes primarily).

The problem is two fold. For the last 4 years, investors have been the primary buyers, buying with cash.

Those investors have pushed DOWN the prices because cash buyers always buy at a discount. If you're offering up 100% cash, then you expect a discount. Just like buying at the court house steps. You aren't buying because it's a good house, or a place you want to live, you buy because it's a good deal and makes sense. Now all the comparisons are based off THOSE prices, which are cash investor prices.

Appraisers are now essentially building out comps using cash investor pricing. When YOU see the prices listed you think to yourself, oh wow! a great deal! I want it. I'll offer 25% down.

But there are still PLENTY of cash investors out there. They have already laid masses of ground work and shown realtors they will close fast and they won't screw with them.

Now a place gets listed, it gets appraised and it's a good deal. Realtors already have a list of people who they KNOW will close quickly. So as soon as one of them bites, it's GONE.

Now, why won't they accept your HIGHER offer? For several reasons.
1) Your higher offer simply won't appraise. You need to get a loan, and the bank will get an appraisal and that will come back close to the offering price most likely. Now the realtors have to do extra work. You might say, ok I'll buy, but I can't buy above what it appraised for because the bank won't lend me the money. Now instead of getting a better price for the house, they're getting the same price that the cash buyer offered AND they have to wait for contingencies to be waived, they have to wait for a bank to give the loan or decline, they have to wait to see if the buyer will back out.
2) You offer up a cash offer, but you haven't done any business with them. They have no idea if you'll close or not. While their cash investor that they called up WILL close, and will do it in 3 days, not 30 days after contingencies are met. You might still back out, and that could screw them. A good cash investor will simply say they waive everything, we'll get this through escrow in 3 days vs a whiny buyer trying to nickel and dime a deal. Even if you ARE NOT going to be whiny, you have no history, so they assume you will, vs their proven list of investors.

So, when will your offers start to be accepted? When there aren't any more cash buyers willing to do 3 day closes on an appraised price that makes sense for them. That basically means you're not going to see any of these deals, because you simply don't have what it takes to close.

Get yourself a realtor, show them you're going to close immediately and they will start to get your name out there as a professional who will close, without screwing anyone over. That, or spend weeks/months talking to every realtor you can find and show them you're a pro, but you're going to use your lawyer to do it. Eventually you'll find an agent who will show a buyer you have the best offer.

hahaha. That's funny! Go SCUM! I heard your head was missing, I recommend you call your proctologist.

On a more intelligent note- pkennedy has many good points. But the seller / banks are so insane sometimes that they insist you close in a tight time frame but they are never able to even get the proper signatures in place from the seller side to comply.

I have not ever head of a 3 day closing, from a buyer side- I would at the very least insist on a preliminary title report to review any possible inconsistencies or discrepencies. Of course I can go to the county recorder and do my own research but that is still not going to get you an owner's title policy in that amount of time. Are you actually talking about something akin to a quit claim? I have bought property unseen because the price was right but I have never waived the right to review title prior to money going hard.

Please elaborate.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I also suspect that the brokers tell their agents to say it's in contract when it is not because the Broker wants to buy it himself and flip it.
And all of times on redfin along with everywhere else it says that it is not in contract. And the listing even stays active 2 weeks later that they told me it's in contract.

Even if a Broker could afford to purchase a house, rather than pay their electric bill most wouldn't be flipping it in this market. During the bubble I knew lots of Realtors putting very low deposit on new construction then playing games to raise the prices of the other properties.

The listing is kept active 1) so they keep getting buyers to call. They either try to sell them other houses or use them for backup offers. 2) Once you close the sale, if the transaction falls through they have to enter the whole listing all over again. (however, some systems allow a "B" designation which stands for "accepting backup offers" I'm not sure how Redin handles that.) 3) It will show on the property history that the deal fell through. They don't want that.

Most Boards will fine the Broker a measley $100 for this infraction but it gets more serious the more times it happens. Other Realtors hate when another Realtor does this because it make them call for nothing when they want to show the house. In most MLS systems there's an easy utility to "report data errors" so it's easy to get caught.

PockyClipsNow says

but they are pre hynotized by the listing agent and you will come off as crazy most of the time,

Even though it's foolish to continue to employ someone you don't trust remember the seller is under contract. They often hate the listing agent but feel they're stuck. If you think something fishy is going on send a copy to the seller with a nice letter saying why their home is special to you, and give a little information about yourself and include your phone number. Home owners have an emotional attachment to the house and will often accept your lower offer if they feel good about you. I know I have.

Raw says

Here is one trick to use on a short sale. Just bribe the present homeowner (if they are still around). The banks won't let a penny go to the homeowner, but they don't need to know everything. The seller will make sure no one else gets in.

Sounds like a possibility but short sellers are often desperate. What's preventing them from keeping the bribe? Also how will they make sure no one else gets in?

Just sit out this year. The President will have to make some tough choices December-February, and we will likely see another recession pretty soon.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

If buyers have that many fucking competitors there is no way it is a buyers market. It's time to sell, not buy.

The reason investors are called vultures is they are meant to eat the rotting roadkill that no one else wants. There was a time Realtors wouldn't even show an REO. Now the public is often asking to see only short sales and REOs. Thanks to the press everyone is looking for a bargain and believes they can get it. So now properties the vulture would polish up and flip or rent out the general public is in on. How dare they!

BayArea says

We are in a unique time right now where middle class real estate investors have emerged due to low prices and low interest rate - Something I have not seen in my lifetime on this level. Competion is fierce.

Ordinary people who don't want to make 1% are coming into the mix. I'm surprised Carton Sheets and the like hasn't had a comeback.

War says

The days of paying in excess of $150k for a depreciating asset like a house are long over.

I thought you'd been banned again. Presumably Patrick didn't get round to this particular account.
As for your post, ha-ha.

BayArea says

Make it clear to them that you are an investor, are pre-approved with excellent credit, have available references, and to notify you right away the moment they have a property available (pssst, before it's on MLS). May the best realtor win. I call it free market realtor competition ;-) Although it's additional work, befriending a couple of them is not a bad idea.

When I was a listing agent I wouldn't deal with anything out of the ordinary like that. There's no profit in it. Just trouble. All an agent has to do is get the seller to price it right and it sells. Always has always will. If you can find anyone that would do dirty deals with you means you are dealing with a scumbag and a fool. Why would you want to deal with someone like that?

Reminds me of the the Groucho Marks saying, "I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member."

hj2222 says

So from what I read here, the investing is causing a lot of competition and preventing people who want to buy a home to live in from getting any good deals.

As a traditional home buyer you should always be able to outbid an investor. If you can't then you're in competition with a fool who's willing to buy at retail. If you do lose out to a vulture at least take comfort in the fact that he will be on food stamps in a couple of years.

pkennedy says

Those investors have pushed DOWN the prices because cash buyers always buy at a discount. If you're offering up 100% cash, then you expect a discount.

If they don't have any people with half decent credit making offers they might give a discount for cash but in my area I've seen FHA buyers beat out cash buyers every time. It's the sellers who've had a couple of FHA buyers fall through that are open to giving a discount for cash. IF they can afford it. Usually they need top dollar to pay off their mortgage.

pkennedy says

Now, why won't they accept your HIGHER offer? For several reasons.
1) Your higher offer simply won't appraise. You need to get a loan, and the bank will get an appraisal and that will come back close to the offering price most likely. Now the realtors have to do extra work.

The Realtor doesn't run the show the sellers do. The seller first has to see for themself the house won't appraise. They think their garbge is gold at first. It would help to target sellers where you see the sale fell through once or twice. By then they just want the nightmare of selling a house to end.

civilsid says

have not ever head of a 3 day closing, from a buyer side- I would at the very least insist on a preliminary title report to review any possible inconsistencies or discrepencies.

I recently sold my condo and it closed in two days. Usually what holds it up is the title insurance. You need a title company who's willing to call in some favors.

ELC says

If you can't then you're in competition with a fool who's willing to buy at retail.

GREAT line. As I have said numerous times, if you don't see the sucker in the game, the sucker is YOU.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I also suspect that the brokers tell their agents to say it's in contract when it is not because the Broker wants to buy it himself and flip it.

I suspect that it's realtor speak for they want you to submit a high offer.

Submit a rather high offer and see if the "contract" falls through the next day or week. Then you know something was most likely not kosher.

Good tips pls.
Does anyone know LA market?

I am looking to purchase a house in LA. I have a very young family.
LA is souited best for my work. I know LA fairly well.
But not sure which neighborhood to buy.
I have $400k cash to spend may be a little bit more.

What type of house should I expect for my budget?
Is culver city out of question?
Does anyone know a good listing agent?
How do I grab a good deal?
Which neighborhood has good school?
Is it the right time to buy in LA?

i appreciate any good advise.

spam

A decade later, what is the housing market now? Buyers market or sellers market?

I say a sellers market!

What do you guys think after more than a decade!

a buyers market if you have cash and can find something! I live in sun city az. 16 yrs. the only reason you see a house for sale on my block is if they died. recently 2 died and they had open house yesterday. there were at least 20 cars waiting

PC says

a buyers market if you have cash and can find something! I live in sun city az. 16 yrs. the only reason you see a house for sale on my block is if they died. recently 2 died and they had open house yesterday. there were at least 20 cars waiting

Not being a dick, but you literally just defined a sellers market to a T.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/17oa29o/is_lying_common_practice_in_negotiations/

Is lying common practice in negotiations?

I received an offer on my home after the first round of open houses that was over asking with a waived inspection & solid financing. It was the only offer I received.

My agent wanted to lie to the folks who made an offer and tell them we received multiple offers and to please submit best and final. I rejected that strategy & my agent insisted that it was common practice at his realty group.

I feel comfortable in my decision to not go through with that plan but was wondering if that strategy really is common place. It feels slimy to me.

zzyzzx says

It feels slimy to me.

Like when your "buyer's agent", making 3% commission, is going to get you a house for the cheapest price.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

A decade later, what is the housing market now? Buyers market or sellers market?

I say a sellers market!

What do you guys think after more than a decade!

In TX triangle countryside - seller’s market. An acre of mesquite brush sells for 20-50K without mineral rights which is insane.

About situation described in OP - when we were buying a farm nearly 3 yrs ago, the realtor(TM) started yelling that we need to agree to buy right now, at full price, before leaving property as there are a lot of cash buyers. I just left. She called us up next day saying that the sale fell through and we can submit a bid…this is a clear case of realtardation multiplied by small town thinking where outsiders should be fleeced.

It will be a sellers market for a very long time.

Out here in silicon valley, it's always a seller's market.

Mortgage rates have risen substantially from historic lows, which would make me think it would hurt sellers and become a buyer's market for the remaining people with loads of cash. But it seems that the high rates make existing home owners loathe to trade up to a better home, since they don't want to trade in a 3% mortgage for a 6% one. So that imbalance remains intact, with fewer buyers being matched by fewer sellers. I guess the only losers are the Realtors™, which makes it a big win for everyone else!

The house a few doors down from me went up for sale 10 months ago then went off market. It went up for sale again just a month ago and had a "sold" sign posted within a week. Can't wait to see the price, as it's an identical house to mine but with a lot of cosmetic improvements.

I'm seeing more for-sale signs around my bit of Silicon Valley, and they seem to stay up quite a while. Two houses in my neighborhood has been on the market over 50 days each.

Patrick says

I'm seeing more for-sale signs around my bit of Silicon Valley, and they seem to stay up quite a while. Two houses in my neighborhood has been on the market over 50 days each.

What's the price point?

GNL says

What's the price point?

On Zillow, there are seven houses in Patrick's area (Millbrae down to Palo Alto) for less than a million dollars.
Here is one:

$980,000 3415 La Selva St, San Mateo, CA 94403
2beds 2baths 1,190sqft Est.: $7,097/mo
Townhouse, Built in 1978 1,464 sqft lot
$955,800 Zestimate®
$824/sqft
$435/mo HOA

The same area has 450 houses over a million. Of those, 109 are over $5 million, and 38 are asking over $10 million.

Damn. Actually, I believe mclean Virginia is hitting those numbers also. Or close to it.