patrick.net

Have you tried dealing directly with the listing agent and doing a dual agent relationship (or working with one of their 'buds')? Not that agent's are unscrupulous mind you, *snicker*, but when they are poised to get double commission on a sale, they might be able to tacitly advise you when your offer is enough. Just keep in mind they can't 'tell you' what other's bid, but most would answer the question, "Is my offer a strong offer?". So far we have encountered a selling agent who wouldn't give us any pricing advice only once.

To the OP:

The easy solution is to move somewhere with a less volitile housing market. You'll sleep better at night too!

FunTime says

Have you considered not wanting to buy and moving into a not-crappy rental?

I am curious to know what a "crappy rental apartment" is exactly. Many would probably consider mine "crappy" since the interior is dated, faces north/south and never gets much natural lighting and has an electric stove. Then again, it costs 2-3x less than a "high end" complex where you can attain "baller renter status" and have little money left over for anything else. Peninsulabuyer, what makes your place so crappy?

Keeping the unit clean, decorating a little and putting conscious effort into the layout of the furniture goes a long way. I think that a lot of renters refuse to put that much effort in because, "it is a rental and I will not rent forever" and they have "more important" things to do like watch TV. Well, yeah, put no effort in and of course it feels like a disheveled bachelor pad.

675k for a townhouse?, yikes! HOA $270! TV not included!, lol, wonder when they'll start throwing TV's in again.

everything says

675k for a townhouse?, yikes! HOA $270! TV not included!, lol, wonder when they'll start throwing TV's in again.

Seriously. $675k for a townhouse in Foster City? A coworker of mine bought a 2400SF, 2 story 4/3 house that was built in 2006, in a nice part of Kirkland, for $600k in 2009. Yeah yeah, it isn't the SFBA, but it is a very nice area and damn close to the high tech job center in the greater Seattle Area, and I'd call it an analog for Foster City in a lot of ways.

No wonder housing is ridiculous here. People think that $675k for shared walls along a major approach path to an international airport makes some sort of sense.

Tech has been booming again, just like it did before it crashed out about 12 years ago.

Isn't Foster City built on old landfill? Wonder what a good shaking would to do that overpriced townhouse.

Want a townhouse at a more reasonable price?

http://www.homezonemedia.com/etour.html/TOURID/47393

everything says

675k for a townhouse?, yikes! HOA $270! TV not included!, lol, wonder when they'll start throwing TV's in again.

This. That townhome is a POS. Foster City is nothing special - except proximity to tech companies, I guess.

I understand that the current market will support $675K for a POS (thanks largely to continued strength in tech and all the other reasons people talk about here). I further understand that my refusal to accept this seemingly irrational pricing doesn't make it any less real (after all, a market can remain irrational for a lot longer than I can remain without a roof over my head).

OTOH, the OP should srsly consider another locale, even within the Bay Area. You could get a lot more for $675K in safe, lovely parts of the East Bay with do-able commute times to the Peninsula. The OP should be thankful he didn't get this POS in a POS area.

How can tech companies remain in the Bay Area and stay competitive? How long can they afford to pay entry-level folks $100k/year just so they can afford a POS townhouse?

wthrfrk80 says

How can tech companies remain in the Bay Area and stay competitive?

You stay competitive by building higher value-add. For example, a handful of employees was able to build instagram in a matter of months and sell to Facebook for $billion+. From that perspective, a 100K salary is chump change for the value created. Spend millions for billions.

Another competitive tool is adding value by doing more. Silicon Valley is fast-paced, a 6 months project for a Kansas City programming team is a 3 month project in San Francisco. (demand more ability and hours) The money is well worth the incremental cost.

SFace says

Silicon Valley is fast-paced, a 6 months project for a Kansas City programming team is a 3 month project in San Francisco.

Total nonsense.

There's talented (and talentless) engineering teams all over the country.

I've known some incredible engineers (including early Google and Facebook) and one of the best engineering teams I've had the pleasure of working with is actually based out of Minnesota.

CrazyMan says

SFace says

Silicon Valley is fast-paced, a 6 months project for a Kansas City programming team is a 3 month project in San Francisco.

Total nonsense.

There's talented (and talentless) engineering teams all over the country.

I've known some incredible engineers (including early Google and Facebook) and one of the best engineering teams I've had the pleasure of working with is actually based out of Minnesota.

I don't doubt your experience, but in general terms, you cannot deny that silicon valley is the tech capital of the world and the salaries and opportunities available here it will attract the best and brightest talent out there, generally speaking of course.

No sense in even attemting to argue against this, just no sense.

Of course, I wouldn't argue that at all.

The statement SFace made concerning 6 months vs. 3 months because one team is in KC just isn't accurate. A talented KC team can do a project in the same time a talented SV team can. No question.

You could argue that talented teams are just more plentiful here, but that's not what he was trying to say.

Regardless, it's a minor point that doesn't influence the topic in any real discernible way.

wthrfrk80 says

How can tech companies remain in the Bay Area and stay competitive? How long can they afford to pay entry-level folks $100k/year just so they can afford a POS townhouse?

they don't pay entry level folks 100k/year and they outsource like crazy.

omgbacon says

they don't pay entry level folks 100k/year and they outsource like crazy.

Then who can afford to buy these crappy houses for 600k? Rich Chinese?

entry level people aren't buying houses.

both parents work.

they don't save any money.

Not saying house prices will go up, but SF prices are quite low compared to the rest of the world. This only illustrate the size and scope of the housing bubble. Well, we all know it is a debt bubble anyway, no matter if money comes from tech or China.

Peter P says

Not saying house prices will go up, but SF prices are quite low compared to the rest of the world.

Maybe compared to London, Tokyo, Paris and other major cultural centers.

well, it is a major cultural center, so that would make sense.

another thing about SF that people don't always think about is that it's 7 miles wide, 7 miles long, and surrounded by water on three sides. they stopped making land in SF 100 years ago and what land they did make isn't stable during earthquakes.

if SF ever got around to making its school system friendly to people with kids prices would probably be higher.

peninsulabuyer says

I put $25,000 over the asking price for this one, still got overbid!!!

Well over half a million for that piece of shit? You're lucky you got overbid. You'd have buyer's regret if you didn't.

wthrfrk80 says

Peter P says

Not saying house prices will go up, but SF prices are quite low compared to the rest of the world.

Maybe compared to London, Tokyo, Paris and other major cultural centers.

Nope. I would say Peter P. is correct.

http://www.creditsesame.com/blog/americas-top-cities-cheapest-real-estate-in-the-world/?refresh=none

omgbacon says

well, it is a major cultural center, so that would make sense.

another thing about SF that people don't always think about is that it's 7 miles wide, 7 miles long, and surrounded by water on three sides. they stopped making land in SF 100 years ago and what land they did make isn't stable during earthquakes.

That makes sense, yes. But people still need to get the money from somewhere, right? Where is the money coming from...that's what I want to know. ;-)

Maybe all those homeless folks are investment bankers making six figures...they just can't afford a place. ;-)

Homeboy says

peninsulabuyer says

With $2100 rent, buying sure looks like a great option

How so? Even if you put 20% down, your PITI would be around $3400 for a $700,000 purchase, wouldn't it? That's a lot more than you're paying for rent.

I spent about 4 years househunting before I found something.

Wow you sound like me back in 2007.

* Holy crap, prices went up ANOTHER 20% YoY
* We are getting nothing for our $1600/mo of rent
* I want to be an OWNER - F@# renting
* Wow this KoolAid is DELICIOUS! Where do is sign?

So we bought. How'd it work out? Well my handle says it all.

Is 2012 like 2006? Yes, a bit.
Will 2013 turn out like 2007? I'll let you know in 18 months
Will 2014 bring about a financial crash worse than 2008?
Will home prices bottom in 2015 like they did in 2009?

Pappa Bear ain't telling.

New renter says

* I want to be an OWNER - F@# renting

Translation: "I want to RENT MONEY from a bank, not rent a dwelling-place from a landlord!"

Note that even though SF is cheaper than say London and Moscow, it may not catch up to those cities unless it becomes more "special."

Technology employment growth, even if sustained, is unlikely to make SF more expensive in relative terms. There may be a lot of start-up millionaires in the Silicon Valley, but they are really nothing compared to oil-kings and oligarchs.

If you buy a home for $X and expect a 5% return per year. After 10 years, how much do you need to sell it for? Think about the potential purchaser, how much will he need to make in order to afford your home? What does he look like? Does it make sense?

freak80 says

New renter says

* I want to be an OWNER - F@# renting

Translation: "I want to RENT MONEY from a bank, not rent a dwelling-place from a landlord!"

Word!

600k/ condo , vs renting..

2100 - hoa(300) - tax(6000/12) = 1300 month

1300/month is hardly breaks the standard deduction, will not if you are hitched.

Add in the 100-200/month that you need to spend on toys for the place.

Yeah, being "tiered" must be annoying.

The problem with high prices is the the huge tax bill. Even if you chip away at the mortgage-you have a ginormous tax bill that lasts for ever and ever.

SF is a "cultural center" relative to the rest of this part of CA, but it is a flat-out joke if you try to compare SF to any of the other major metros around the world. There is simply no comparison to be made between SF and Tokyo, Paris and Hong Kong. SF is a dull, dirty splatter of concrete and anyone that comes here from one of those places probably isn't impressed at all with it, other than the fact that the weather is consistently "blah." (and blah weather IS better than hot-and-humid-as-balls, which is found in a lot of other places). The SF'ites that go on & on about how special it is there have either never been anywhere else or need to share whatever it is that they are smoking.

I was in China/HK for work again a few weeks ago. I go there for work and vacation pretty often and I love it every time. My last night there was in a harbor-facing room in the Intercontinental and I watched a little bit of the dragon boat races the next morning. They have them in the SFBA too, and I was on a competitive Hawaiian Outrigger team for a few seasons. The stroke is the same, except these guys don't get to change sides!

HK Island. Please tell me SF compares somehow, I need a laugh. Going out at night is painfully easy there and there is always something good to do/eat/drink. I grabbed dinner at an English bar (not in LKF, just some thing along the harbor) where I had a very good BLT & beer, while listening to some Chinese bar band do the best covers of Skynyrd and Mark Knopfler that I have ever heard. There is plenty of just about every other culture there, too.

Anyway, SF is special compared to the surrounding suburbia so I'll give it that. People that insist that people from other parts of the world are all dying to get in there are on crack though. There are MUCH cooler places to live where the people as a whole have a lot more self respect. 75% of HK's population rides the subway daily...and I have never once seen names carved into anything, spray paint anywhere and there is almost no litter anywhere unless you get WAY out into the boonies.

"OK Mr. Complainy Pants, why don't you just move there if it is so great?"
I'm not a big-city type of guy. I want a detached garage/workshop and enough space that I can run a table saw at 3AM and not have to deal with irritated neighbors. Were I ever forced to live in a big city though, I'd take HK over NYC or SF.

Not a fan of Paris. But Cannes is lovely. Any city with a subway system is too large.

bmwman91 says

There are MUCH cooler places to live

Cooler? - In the winter maybe, but not in the summer.

B.A.C.A.H. says

bmwman91 says

There are MUCH cooler places to live

Cooler? - In the winter maybe, but not in the summer.

Eureka! I have found Eureka.

I have to agree with bmwman about HK and S.F. I've never been impressed with San Francisco except for it smelling like urine year round on Market Street. That's quite a feat.

Granted last time I was in Hong Kong was in 1996 on business as an analyst for Goldman Sachs. The skyline looked totally different than the pictures bmwman is posting. I remember walking around the city and thinking how I'd never see everything in the week I would be there.

Now I live in anti-septic Orange County, much less exciting, less congested, and less smelly. I kind of like it this way.

B.A.C.A.H. says

bmwman91 says

There are MUCH cooler places to live

Cooler? - In the winter maybe, but not in the summer.

Heyooooooo! Got me!

For some reason, most of my trips there are between June and August...HOT HOT HOT! Still, once the sun goes down, it kicks ass bar hopping in shorts, a tee shirt and sandals. You might get 3-4 weekends where you can do THAT in SF each year. Overall though, I suppose that cold & breezy is a little easier to deal with year-round than hot & humid.

Goran_K says

Granted last time I was in Hong Kong was in 1996 on business as an analyst for Goldman Sachs. The skyline looked totally different than the pictures bmwman is posting.

HK Island skyline at night.
The camera's field of view only really captures about 35% of it. The biggest/tallest building isn't even in the shots. There is a LOT of money there.

Anyway sorry to hijack the thread with my travel pics lol, although it is probably more fun than making fun of Foster City. Maybe I'll start a thread in the misc section with pics from various vacations. Even "the boonies" of HK have a skyline & amenities that make SF look like some small town. Having in-laws there kicks ass since I get access to the "real" HK that way.

Nice. That beats buying a Foster home.

Hong Kong weather is nothing to crow about and it is an island . S.F. isn't just S.f. A few hours drive from S.F you hit the Sierra Nevadas , the high desert, lakes, spectacular coastline, world class wineries and redwood groves. A few more hours and you hit a live volcano(Lassen Peak), volcanic caves(N.E CA) and of course the same distance down south and you hit L.A.
S.F itself has the Golden Gate bridge and it has character-unlike L.A.-which I agree is a concrete jungle. I love the varying terrain here, as well as the micro climates. Nothing like taking a romp down I280

Now I am no fan of the real estate prices-which are insane-especially after my employment journey through the midwest and looking at what you get for a 100/200k there.

But nothing to knock here and I have travelled all over the world.

I am also looking in Foster City and going through same frustration. You won't believe but market turnaround in just past 6 months. I honestly smell something fishy. I do not understand how come some many buyers with so much money suddenly flooded the market and it is not just Foster City, it is all over bay area and other states. Please be patient and do not make any emotional decision. Fundamentals for USA are not getting better and buying a costly house could be a financial suicide.