patrick.net

I hate it when someone goes through line by line with critiques of posts, but you ask so many questions there isn't a better way to maintain clarity.

mell says

What does that have to do with Keynesian money policies?

Keynes said that private sector decisions can at times lead to market inefficiences, and he advocated for public policy to stabilize demand. I can think of few clearer examples of public intervention than government maintaining full employment in the face of capacity surplus. Germany does not control its money policy, it is a member nation of the ECB.

mell says

You can have aspects of a social market economy while still being fiscally conservative and balance your budget(s).

Now fiscal conservatism is only defined as balancing the budget? Fine...lets raise tax rates to 90% of GDP and double spending. We would have a budget surplus which you would define as "fiscal conservatism."

And finally...
mell says

unlike in the US where the numbers are fudged beyond sense (the real unemployment % as in the US is likely significantly higher than in Estonia or Latvia).

There it is. The place Austrians always go.."The observable empirical data contradicts my point because the numbers are manipulated. No I don't have any data of my own, what good would that do?"

Once again:
david1 says

Austrians can't verify anything empirically, so they struggle with reality.

Ruki says

david1 says

Austrians can't verify anything empirically, so they struggle with reality.

That's rich given how Keynesians never have and Keynes himself said it was all theory and wasn't interested in providing empirical data.

Give HRHMedia access to patrick.net...and he'll masturbate with it.

Phillips Curve?

Mr Gaster in that picture wouldn't sell too much lumber without that gov't road running by his business, LOL.

Republicans are really the densest people on the planet. That's the only explanation.

Mr Gaster really just wants his ass kissed is all. The other stuff is just a handy pretext.

zzyzzx says

Ah, but Ray didn't build that nice road next to his business that allows people to shop at his hardware store. Nor did Ray build:

- the sewer system that prevents his hardware store from flooding
- the fire department and hydrant system that keeps it from burning down
- the police department that protects Ray from burglary
- the electric system that powers Ray's stores
- the public land on which that electric system and other utilities run without which Ray could not run his business

And as Jon Stewart explained, much to the irritation of republicans, Obama meant "those" not "that".

I.e., Obama was not saying that people didn't build businesses. Obama was saying that business creators didn't build all the infrastructure that is necessary for those businesses to run. That public infrastructure, which makes possible those private businesses, were built with tax dollars and that is why taxes exist, so that the next generation can build their businesses and lives as well.

Jon Stewart then goes on to show how ridiculously identical Obama's and Romney's positions are on the whole private vs. public tax pseudo-debate is.

But hey, why argue against what Obama stands for, when you can argue against an out-of-context misinterpretation of what Obama stands for. You know, like when Romney said he like firing people.

After all, none of you actually believe that Obama is a communist, but you'll promote that idea because you think your neighbors are so fucking stupid they might believe it and then vote for Romney. And that's what this whole thread is really about.

If you're going to argue for one of the two dip-shits running for president, at least argue the real issues. I know it's hard because the two are virtually identical with the slight exception that Romney wants to fuck the middle class harder to increase the rich-poor gap even more. But most of their policies are quite frankly the same.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/07/31/colorado-business-owners-speak-out-on-obamas-business-comment/

Don't forget to eat at Chick-Fil-A soon...and SUPPORT FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA.

Blah blah blah...we all know what the fuck he was saying...but it doesn't matter. this is the season for taking everything out of context. OB kicked it off with the romney "I like to be able to ....blah blah blah"....
Most 'out of context' quotes takes the election....
Let the games begin.

Dan8267 says

I.e., Obama was not saying that people didn't build businesses. Obama was saying that business creators didn't build all the infrastructure that is necessary for

xrpb11a says

this is the season for taking everything out of context.

But do you really respect anyone on either side that stoops to those tactics?

by november everybody will be guilty.
business as usual..

Dan8267 says

xrpb11a says

this is the season for taking everything out of context.

But do you really respect anyone on either side that stoops to those tactics?

I have one of those just up the street. I eat there because it's the tastiest fast food chicken that won't fry your diet...

the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other...

Honest Abe says

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/07/31/colorado-business-owners-speak-out-on-obamas-business-comment/

Don't forget to eat at Chick-Fil-A soon...and SUPPORT FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA.

Chick Fil A isn't getting another dollar from me, but I admit that this homohate foo-fah is excellent business for them.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/14/gallup-majority-say-gay-lesbian-relation

The homohate thing is just a retread of Southern / Bible Belt intolerance:

it's bullshit, but goes along well with the rest of the bullshit from conservatives.

"The poll, conducted from June 28 to July 9, found that 22% of white evangelical Protestants favor gay marriage while 73% oppose."

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/lifestyle/religion/poll-shows-divisions-over-gay-marriage#ixzz22LFNDl73

30% of the country is white evangelical and they vote Republican at ~80%.

Retards, every last one of them, but it's great to have 25% of the electorate as a reliable voting bloc, which the Republicans have enjoyed since the realignment of Nixon's Southern Strategy and Reagan's follow-on election in 1980.

xrpb11a says

the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other...

Depends if you want this country devolving into a religious nuthouse like Afghanistan. That's what the Christian Dominionist thing is all about.

First they shit on the gays, and I did not speak out - because I was not gay.

Chick Fil A is just a small piece of the Republican social conservative power bloc. Even if 10 million people who think like me stop going there, it's not going to change things for the better, since there are many more conservative idiots in this country than smart people.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."

your making a mountain out of a molehill...
the scene you paint below is simply not attainable given the current constitution/bill of rights.

Delurking says

Depends if you want this country devolving into a religious nuthouse like Afghanistan. That's what the Christian Dominionist thing is all about.

xrpb11a says

your making a mountain out of a molehill...

tell that to gay people who want legal partnerships.

CFA is donating millions of dollars to oppose those civil rights.

It's bullshit and I'm not going to have one penny of my money go for that.

Chicken sandwich isn't worth all that.

and the gays will shit on them this friday. what goes around, comes around.

Delurking says

First they shit on the gays

xrpb11a says

what goes around, comes around.

the problem is gays are a minority, while christian fundamentalists are a majority in many areas.

this stuff isn't that complicated ya know.

"The findings also show a widening partisan divide over gay marriage, with 65 percent of Democrats now supporting it compared to 24 percent of Republicans."

wow, talk about being on the wrong side of history. Well done, conservatives, you are driving your party into irrelevancy.

though it's probably going to take a 1929-33 period to get the people back to their senses about how bad conservatism is for America.

if you want to suppress the first amendment, have at it...
Let me know how that works out for ya....

Delurking says

xrpb11a says

what goes around, comes around.

the problem is gays are a minority, while christian fundamentalists are a majority in many areas.

too late.
chick-fil-a did not build their business....you did by paying taxes that built the roads and bridges leading to their door.....
Guess that makes you a bigot too....

Delurking says

It's bullshit and I'm not going to have one penny of my money go for that.

I am a private citizen so first amendment does not apply.

I fully support the geezer's right to be a public homophobe but I will not give him my money for him to forward it to advocacy groups I disagree with.

again, this is not that complicated.

Chick Fil A is just a rightwing nutjob corporation. It's a free country, but their advocacy for social conservative bullshit is not something I'm going to support going forward.

I've known about CFA's positions on this -- and even ate there earlier this month, but I've seen the error in my ways with that.

chick-fil-a did not build their business....you did by paying taxes that built the roads and bridges leading to their door.....

this barely parses. For one, Obama did NOT say anything that business owners did not build their businesses, obviously they do.

Obama's quote was saying business owners did not build the infrastructure their businesses depend upon.

Arguing with conservatives is like arguing with 2 year olds. You guys simply can't kick your brain into any sort of ability to understand anything beyond your idiotic talking points.

you have your head so far up your ass you don't even recognize humor...

do yourself a favor....learn to read.
http://patrick.net/?p=1214413&c=851185#comment-851185

Delurking says

chick-fil-a did not build their business....you did by paying taxes that built the roads and bridges leading to their door.....

this barely parses.

xrpb11a says

you have your head so far up your ass

Contrary to popular assumption, the ass is not necessarily the worst place to store one's head.

Oh? It is?
Try not purchasing a health care plan...
let me know how 'free' that works out to be....

Delurking says

It's a free country

I'm rubber, you're glue.

credit to HRH
Delurking says

Arguing with conservatives is like arguing with 2 year olds. You guys simply can't kick your brain into any sort of ability to understand anything beyond your idiotic talking point

Delurking says

Interestingly this graph also reflects to a large degree of accuracy the level of intelligence of the population of the states as measured by education, scientific knowledge, mathematical skills, and international testing.

Intelligence makes people liberal and more likely to favor legalizing gay marriage. What a surprise.

Marriage is not a civil right.
Your argument is blown to hell.
Case Closed.

Delurking says

tell that to gay people who want legal partnerships.

CFA is donating millions of dollars to oppose those civil rights.

xrpb11a says

Marriage is not a civil right.

Actually, according to the Supreme Court it is. In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court ruled that states could not ban or restrict interracial marriages, a common practice at the time that was called miscegenation, as it was a violation of the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment.

As I argue in this thread, the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies exactly the same way to the issue of gay marriages.

Ultimately the people twenty years from now are going to look back at this debate in the exact same way we look back at the 1960s debate over interracial marriages. And those who oppose gay marriage will look as bigoted and stupid as those who opposed interracial marriages. It's the natural progression of liberty and equality.

Well, u are right!

God damn O'Reilly and his talking points....

Dan8267 says

xrpb11a says

Marriage is not a civil right.

Actually, according to the Supreme Court it is. In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court ruled that states could not ban or restrict interracial marriages, a common practice at the time called miscegenation, was a violation of the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment.

xrpb11a says

Well, u are right!

God damn O'Reilly and his talking points....that's the last time I steal anything from THAT fucker...

Holy shit...did one of the Munchkins just notice Dorothy?

Seriously though, are you being sincere?

why not?
the link was provided...easy confirmation.
scotus laid it out the way Dan stated...
I was misinformed.
marriage is confirmed as a Civil Right.

Can I have my chicken now??

david1 says

xrpb11a says

Well, u are right!

God damn O'Reilly and his talking points....that's the last time I steal anything from THAT fucker...

Holy shit...did one of the Munchkins just notice Dorothy?

Seriously though, are you being sincere?

Marriage as defined by the government is an utterly artificial construct to incentivise procreating families. They didn't do the best job as they could have simply paid per child instead which would have been much fairer, but to think of it as a civil right is ludicrous. But if you want to make that point with the court on your side than you should go all the way and also legalize poligamy as a civil right as well as what is commonly understood as "incest", as people cannot be discriminated against their religious or whatever preference for multiple husbands/wifes, or for their preference for their brother or sister. Heck even a father would have the right to marry his daughter (if old enough and consentual) - which by the way has happened without both parties who had been separated knowing they were related. The only way to solve this in all fairness is for the government to get out of the marriage business.

Agreed.
Scotus confirmed marriage as a civil right.
The definition of 'marriage' is open for interpretation.
From this point on, anything goes....

mell says

But if you want to make that point with the court on your side than you should go all the way and also legalize poligamy as a civil right as well as what is commonly understood as "incest", as people cannot be discriminated against their religious or whatever preference for multiple husbands/wifes, or for their preference for their brother or sister

There is no problem.
Marriage is a civil right. The gays will win this one over the long haul through the courts. You've already won. Why deny yourself some of the best chicken in the land?
Delurking says

the problem is gays are a minority,

Fox News tells it like it is.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/17/obama-right-americans-cant-succeed-without-government/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz21vUZDfL5

xrpb11a says

I have one of those just up the street. I eat there because it's the tastiest fast food chicken that won't fry your diet...

the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other.

No impact here either, but that's because I don't eat chicken. Around here Chick-fil-a's were packed. They showed it on the news.

In so far as gays having a kiss-in there on Friday, I'm sure that will make the news just the same.

Sustenance supersedes politics.

zzyzzx says

xrpb11a says

I have one of those just up the street. I eat there because it's the tastiest fast food chicken that won't fry your diet...

the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other.

No impact here either, but that's because I don't eat chicken. Around here Chick-fil-a's were packed. They showed it on the news.

In so far as gays having a kiss-in there on Friday, I'm sure that will make the news just the same.

If the homeowner isn't insulted by your offer...you didn't bid low enough!!!

Dan Cathy didn't build Chick-Fil-A...someone else made that happen.

Honest Abe says

Dan Cathy didn't build Chick-Fil-A...someone else made that happen.

This Guy:

xrpb11a says

You've already won. Why deny yourself some of the best chicken in the land?

Because CFA still supports anti-gay causes throughout the world.

Plus their being a part of the general religious right whacko axis -- I don't want my money working against me in the future.

Fuck 'em. I'll make my own.