patrick.net

Delurking says

Interestingly this graph also reflects to a large degree of accuracy the level of intelligence of the population of the states as measured by education, scientific knowledge, mathematical skills, and international testing.

Intelligence makes people liberal and more likely to favor legalizing gay marriage. What a surprise.

Marriage is not a civil right.
Your argument is blown to hell.
Case Closed.

Delurking says

tell that to gay people who want legal partnerships.

CFA is donating millions of dollars to oppose those civil rights.

xrpb11a says

Marriage is not a civil right.

Actually, according to the Supreme Court it is. In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court ruled that states could not ban or restrict interracial marriages, a common practice at the time that was called miscegenation, as it was a violation of the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment.

As I argue in this thread, the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies exactly the same way to the issue of gay marriages.

Ultimately the people twenty years from now are going to look back at this debate in the exact same way we look back at the 1960s debate over interracial marriages. And those who oppose gay marriage will look as bigoted and stupid as those who opposed interracial marriages. It's the natural progression of liberty and equality.

Well, u are right!

God damn O'Reilly and his talking points....

Dan8267 says

xrpb11a says

Marriage is not a civil right.

Actually, according to the Supreme Court it is. In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court ruled that states could not ban or restrict interracial marriages, a common practice at the time called miscegenation, was a violation of the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment.

xrpb11a says

Well, u are right!

God damn O'Reilly and his talking points....that's the last time I steal anything from THAT fucker...

Holy shit...did one of the Munchkins just notice Dorothy?

Seriously though, are you being sincere?

why not?
the link was provided...easy confirmation.
scotus laid it out the way Dan stated...
I was misinformed.
marriage is confirmed as a Civil Right.

Can I have my chicken now??

david1 says

xrpb11a says

Well, u are right!

God damn O'Reilly and his talking points....that's the last time I steal anything from THAT fucker...

Holy shit...did one of the Munchkins just notice Dorothy?

Seriously though, are you being sincere?

Marriage as defined by the government is an utterly artificial construct to incentivise procreating families. They didn't do the best job as they could have simply paid per child instead which would have been much fairer, but to think of it as a civil right is ludicrous. But if you want to make that point with the court on your side than you should go all the way and also legalize poligamy as a civil right as well as what is commonly understood as "incest", as people cannot be discriminated against their religious or whatever preference for multiple husbands/wifes, or for their preference for their brother or sister. Heck even a father would have the right to marry his daughter (if old enough and consentual) - which by the way has happened without both parties who had been separated knowing they were related. The only way to solve this in all fairness is for the government to get out of the marriage business.

Agreed.
Scotus confirmed marriage as a civil right.
The definition of 'marriage' is open for interpretation.
From this point on, anything goes....

mell says

But if you want to make that point with the court on your side than you should go all the way and also legalize poligamy as a civil right as well as what is commonly understood as "incest", as people cannot be discriminated against their religious or whatever preference for multiple husbands/wifes, or for their preference for their brother or sister

There is no problem.
Marriage is a civil right. The gays will win this one over the long haul through the courts. You've already won. Why deny yourself some of the best chicken in the land?
Delurking says

the problem is gays are a minority,

Fox News tells it like it is.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/17/obama-right-americans-cant-succeed-without-government/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz21vUZDfL5

xrpb11a says

I have one of those just up the street. I eat there because it's the tastiest fast food chicken that won't fry your diet...

the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other.

No impact here either, but that's because I don't eat chicken. Around here Chick-fil-a's were packed. They showed it on the news.

In so far as gays having a kiss-in there on Friday, I'm sure that will make the news just the same.

Sustenance supersedes politics.

zzyzzx says

xrpb11a says

I have one of those just up the street. I eat there because it's the tastiest fast food chicken that won't fry your diet...

the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other.

No impact here either, but that's because I don't eat chicken. Around here Chick-fil-a's were packed. They showed it on the news.

In so far as gays having a kiss-in there on Friday, I'm sure that will make the news just the same.

If the homeowner isn't insulted by your offer...you didn't bid low enough!!!

Dan Cathy didn't build Chick-Fil-A...someone else made that happen.

Honest Abe says

Dan Cathy didn't build Chick-Fil-A...someone else made that happen.

This Guy:

xrpb11a says

You've already won. Why deny yourself some of the best chicken in the land?

Because CFA still supports anti-gay causes throughout the world.

Plus their being a part of the general religious right whacko axis -- I don't want my money working against me in the future.

Fuck 'em. I'll make my own.

mell says

but to think of it as a civil right is ludicrous.

I have a hard time folding my brain to where you get the basis for thinking the ability for two people to form a legally-binding partnership for life is not a fundamental right.

Marriage is not about popping out babies. It's about equal partnerships between adults. THAT'S why it's a social good.

Congratulations. With all the hubbub you've created, it looks like you just funded your own demise....

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/02/chick-fil-a-appreciation-day-sets-record-restaurant-chain-says/?hpt=hp_t1

Delurking says

xrpb11a says

You've already won. Why deny yourself some of the best chicken in the land?

Because CFA still supports anti-gay causes throughout the world.

Plus their being a part of the general religious right whacko axis -- I don't want my money working against me in the future.

Fuck 'em. I'll make my own.

xrpb11a says

Congratulations. With all the hubbub you've created, it looks like you just funded your own demise....

The right wing is still pretty strong and has plenty of fight left in it still in this country yes.

I'm probably going to have to move out at some point this decade to a less insane place. This socio-economic order is going to collapse eventually since we don't have the political intelligence let alone maturity to address any of our problems.

Good thing I only have tens of thousands sunk in past FICA contributions and not hundreds of thousands. My collection date for that is in the 2030s and it's clear to me this country is going to have made a smoking crater in the ground well before then.

Delurking says

xrpb11a says

Congratulations. With all the hubbub you've created, it looks like you just funded your own demise....

The right wing is still pretty strong and has plenty of fight left in it still in this country yes.

I'm probably going to have to move out at some point this decade to a less insane place. This socio-economic order is going to collapse eventually since we don't have the political intelligence let alone maturity to address any of our problems.

Good thing I only have tens of thousands sunk in past FICA contributions and not hundreds of thousands. My collection date for that is in the 2030s and it's clear to me this country is going to have made a smoking crater in the ground well before then.

To where? If the US craters who's going to keep the rest of the world from killing each other?

zzyzzx says

No impact here either, but that's because I don't eat chicken. Around here Chick-fil-a's were packed. They showed it on the news.

In so far as gays having a kiss-in there on Friday, I'm sure that will make the news just the same.

LOL! they sold out all their food in the Bay Area... Yep thats right! Sold out Wed.. maybe even Thursday and Friday.

Delurking says

mell says

but to think of it as a civil right is ludicrous.

I have a hard time folding my brain to where you get the basis for thinking the ability for two people to form a legally-binding partnership for life is not a fundamental right.

Marriage is not about popping out babies. It's about equal partnerships between adults. THAT'S why it's a social good.

You already have that right by drafting and signing simple contracts between each other. Everybody has that right. What happened is that government intervention has given some people additional rights and duties mostly hidden out of plain sight, embedded in a bunch of legislature that nobody will ever read. It also gave itself and greedy lawyers a good grip on your life. This is what you are calling a civil right?

thomaswong.1986 says

LOL! they sold out all their food in the Bay Area... Yep thats right!

Wow, all their food at one restaurant sold out?

People in Fairfield must really hate gay marriage.

thomaswong.1986 says

Around here Chick-fil-a's were packed. They showed it on the news.

The American Poultry Lobby is laughing all the way to the bank.

leoj707 says

thomaswong.1986 says

LOL! they sold out all their food in the Bay Area... Yep thats right!

Wow, all their food at one restaurant sold out?

People in Fairfield must really hate gay marriage.

I just bought 10k worth of stock in Pepto.

back on topic:

leoj707 says

Wow, all their food at one restaurant sold out?

People in Fairfield must really hate gay marriage.

Sold out like so many other stores...So much for talk about any boycott... wont work!

During the 2008 presidential debate hosted by Pastor Rick Warren,
President Obama explained:

"I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian -- for me -- for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God's in the mix.
I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage."

oBaMa had the SAME opinion of what constitutes marriage that Don Cathy still has...until a month or so ago.

WHERE WAS THE OUTRAGE AGAINST hUSSAIn WHEN HE HAD THE SAME OPINION OF WHAT CONSTITUTED MARRIAGE ??

Why the double standard??? Is that something libs can't live without?

Damn, you guys are good. You caught a politician trying to maneuver through the gay marriage debate. You got him but good!

Now, about those ill-planned wars, Medicare Part D, and Tax cuts that weren't paid for. Do you have priorities? Is your faux outrage limited to Democrats?

Honest Abe says

oBaMa had the SAME opinion of what constitutes marriage that Don Cathy still has...until a month or so ago.

Obama is a politician. He does what he thinks the public will like.

In the 1960s, LBJ saw that his party would become marginalize unless they stopped being racist and embraced the civil rights movement. LBJ's support of civil rights was a calculated political move, not a moral awakening.

Obama is just like LBJ. He realizes that the party that opposes gay marriage will be marginalized because the public increasingly wants it. More importantly, the young want it and as they grow older gay marriage will be universally supported just as interracial marriage is today.

CL - I'm 100% with you on the never-ending, ill planned wars, empire building and an outrageous, bloated military budget. We don't "need" military bases all around the world to be "safe".

Next we should do away with the unpatriotic Patriot Act. Then we reduce spending across the board down to where spending was in the year 2,000.

Then we reduce taxes across the board to (1) allow the wealthy to spend freely and foolishly , invest freely, and die freely. Let their spendthrift kids inherit all the money and then blow it in two or three years. That will juice up the economy. And (2) to allow the middle class to keep more of the money they earned so they can spend it the way they want - NOT let the government confiscate it from them to waste and squander it.

My outrage knows no bounds...included are democrats, RINO's, political hacks and spendthrifts, left leaning progressives, closet communists, closet socialists, republicans who run up the national debt, war mongers, lawyers, radical gay aggitators, union bosses and thugs, Chicago politicians, the fruits and nuts in San Francisco, Jerry Brown, Dirty Harry, B.J. Clinton, the radical wealth spreader without a birth certificate and a socialized security number that does not match his age, Rosenvelt, LBJ, Helicopter Ben, Tim "the tax cheat", Lawless Eric Holder. Don't get me started, I could go for probably longer than the brown-shirts who are recording my every word.

Dan8267 says

Honest Abe says

oBaMa had the SAME opinion of what constitutes marriage that Don Cathy still has...until a month or so ago.

Obama is a politician. He does what he thinks the public will like.

In the 1960s, LBJ saw that his party would become marginalize unless they stopped being racist and embraced the civil rights movement. LBJ's support of civil rights was a calculated political move, not a moral awakening.

Obama is just like LBJ. He realizes that the party that opposes gay marriage will be marginalized because the public increasingly wants it. More importantly, the young want it and as they grow older gay marriage will be universally supported just as interracial marriage is today.

I think a bit differently on this. I think LBJ knew that Civil Rights would be a political loser in the short run, but that history bends towards justice. The politics involved were about who you'd make bedfellows with (no pun intended). The Republicans can have the racists, and we'll take the blacks and minorities. And those who care about Social Justice.

Obama likely leaned towards gay rights when he told the Xtians he didn't. It is difficult, after all, to get elected when you're honest while dealing with self-righteous assholes. Keep in mind, that he had to pass (and still tries) the religiosity litmus test that was being fervently applied to him in the General. It's hard when you're a Kenyan-Arab-Socialist with a radical Christian Marine preacher who dares to be Theologically accurate.

Honest Abe says

CL - I'm 100% with you on the....

Then prioritize, my friend. It's not remotely accurate to equate Obama's failures with Bush's assault on American ideals and Civil Liberties.

CL says

I think LBJ knew that Civil Rights would be a political loser in the short run, but that history bends towards justice.

I'm not so sure about history bending towards justice, although I would like to believe that. History has over the past 300 years (since the Enlightenment) slowly bent that way, but who knows if that will continue. I do think that technological and scientific advancements tend to promote social justice and that would make societies more just as time goes on.

I agree that LBJ knew backing the Civil Rights would entail a short-term drop in support and he was willing to accept that. However, I don't consider that to be a noble sacrifice but rather a shrewd political calculation.

CL says

It's not remotely accurate to equate Obama's failures with Bush's assault on American ideals and Civil Liberties.

It's certainly not remotely accurate to equate Obama's economic failures with Bush's assault on American ideals and civil liberties as well as human rights.

However, Obama has certainly continued Bush's assault on American ideas, civil liberties, and human rights. Obama has even continued the path that Bush blazed in exactly the same way Bush would have. Obama's drone strikes on innocent civilians including children is the latest example.

I think that arrogent comment " you didn't build that, someone else made that happen" is going to define the mentality and "type cast" him, just as did "I never has sex with that women" or "read my lips, no new taxes".

CL says

Honest Abe says

CL - I'm 100% with you on the....

Then prioritize, my friend. It's not remotely accurate to equate Obama's failures with Bush's assault on American ideals and Civil Liberties.

What is there to prioritize. Although I agree with you in regards to the importance of the issues you listed, HonesAbe was simply following the topic that was at discussion...
Also, why do people continue to compare Bush to Obama? I think most people (even repubs) here would argue that Bush was an idiot, but I find that many liberals always turn back to this statement.."well bush was worse than obama." This really is a non argument. Bad is bad Bush was bad... so is Obama.

Meccos says

What is there to prioritize?

Prioritize the issues that matter, not some stupid misquote or some gay-bashing Chicken choker.

But when people are led around by the nose by some "divide and distract" GOP talking points, it does the entire country a disservice.

If Obama has been ineffective, why? I believe any ineffectiveness has been a result of GOP obstructionism. Voters are free to believe that he is in the pocket of big business (the only other logical conclusion).

But, this type of dialogue is all heat and no light. Folks need to focus-- The GOP would love it if you would not.