patrick.net

Ruki says

The Dems have gone completely over the deep end...their wacky, anti-American views are more evident to more people than at any time in the party's history.

They act like Dictators won the War, and are brainwashing the masses. If that wont work, there will be reconditioning camps.

ALL ABOARD!!!! Choo Choo

So if you have a crazy person sprinkling gasoline all over the office and striking matches, do you engage them in conversation?

Me I try to put some distance and warn others before the building catches fire. Hence my exit from the GOP a few years back.

Vicente says

So if you have a crazy person sprinkling gasoline all over the office and striking matches, do you engage them in conversation?
Me I try to put some distance and warn others before the building catches fire. Hence my exit from the GOP a few years back.

I agree that the Republicans have gone batshit crazy.

But I can't bring myself to vote for Democrats. Didn't you yourself say that you wanted the owner of Chic-Fil-A dead? How is that any less hateful that the stuff on the far-right?

CaptainShuddup says

But you Liberals already knew that didn't you? That's why the guy who invented Obama care was carefully hand selected to run against Obama. So just shut up and enjoy the ride.

Are you suggesting that republicans are easily influenced/manipulated by the media?

freak80 says

The Democrats are in the pocket of hard-left special interests like Planned Parenthood and the homosexual pressure groups.

yes...providing the poor with legal and constitutionally protected health care while also being in favor of equal rights for all people regardless of sexual orientation is certainly something that should be given up in favor of popularity.

if only the democrats had stuck to such a pragmatic stand in the 60s and not be in favor of black civil rights they would have never lost the south in the first place.

freak80 says

If the Democrats were more moderate on "social" issues they'd regain permanent majority status. But of course, they won't. The Democrats are in the pocket of hard-left special interests like Planned Parenthood and the homosexual pressure groups.

Why do you repeat this claptrap? Planned Parenthood has been supported for years---decades, by GOP establishment conservatives. The Bush family were among the most prominent, early supporters.

Which "homosexual pressure group" is there that you'd consider "hard left"? I know plenty of gay folks who lean right, but can't get themselves to support the troglodytes in the GOP.

freak80 says

Didn't you yourself say that you wanted the owner of Chic-Fil-A dead

This too. Vicente did not say that. You know better.

freak80 says

But I can't bring myself to vote for Democrats. Didn't you yourself say that you wanted the owner of Chic-Fil-A dead? How is that any less hateful that the stuff on the far-right?

What? Don't recall doing that.

I will not dine in a Chick-fil-A again, until the old man is gone and the corporate culture no longer funds hate groups. I might have said "dead and gone" instead of just gone, but that was not wishing him to be dead. It's recognizing the reality that he's one Fundy nutjob who will not reform, and the board isn't going to boot him. So it'll be after he's dead.

Ruki says

I hope you can still believe when the GOP kicks the Dems in the ass just like they did in 2010.

The question, friend, is what are you really voting for? The policies, the expected outcomes of policies... Do you have any idea, do you care?...

And go read the article rather than just post knee jerk responses.

...deep thought: Reading through the posts above is a living example of exactly the point the article is trying to make. I keep reading this stuff and I keep thinking "Do they really mean what they write? Where on earth does it come from?" why such vitriol? Wheres the support for all these extreme and disconnected points of view? And then I think "oh yeah, they're crazy".

And I think that mostly because I think you've lost the capacity for reflection and self criticism. It's just like a team sport now. And there are no maddens or ali's anymore, it's all just trying to kick below the belt or bite the ear of the guy who doesn't share your view, that's where we're at.

kentm says

And I think that mostly because I think you've lost the capacity for reflection and self criticism. It's just like a team sport now. And there are no maddens or ali's anymore, it's all just trying to kick below the belt or bite the ear of the guy who doesn't share your view, that's where we're at.

That's just as true for the far-left as it is for the far-right.

Vicente says

will not dine in a Chick-fil-A again, until the old man is gone and the corporate culture no longer funds hate groups.

Does he really fund hate groups? Do you really consider groups that want to keep "traditional" marriage as "hate" groups? Yes, I'd consider the "God Hates Fags" group to be a hate group, but let's not fall for the "black and white" fallacy out there. It's entirely possible for someone to support traditional marriage w/o wanting to take away anyone's right to vote, freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc.

It seems the word "hate" has come to mean "any opinion that is different than mine."

omgbacon says

while also being in favor of equal rights for all people regardless of sexual orientation

Who *isn't* in favor of equal rights for all people? Nobody is saying homosexual behavior should result in termination of voting rights, habeus corpus, free speech, etc etc. Ok, maybe the God Hates Fags group is, but nobody listens to them.

Isn't marriage a religious institution? Why is the government involved in marriage at all?

freak80 says

Nobody is saying homosexual behavior should result in termination of voting rights, habeus corpus, free speech, etc etc. Ok, maybe the God Hates Fags group is, but nobody listens to them.

Yet, you put forth the idea that "the Left" is pushing to have your rights removed despite any evidence? The old "slippery slope" argument only goes one way for you?

And Gays do NOT have equal rights. Survivor's benefits, for one. End of life decisions. Joint tax returns.

freak80 says

Isn't marriage a religious institution? Why is the government involved in marriage at all?

It's largely civil and societal. The religious stuff is window dressing for LEGAL recognition of everything that follows from forming a family. However informally, when you enter a marriage there are a host of legal consequences that follow from it by long-established practices. When you die your property is ASSUMED to go to surviving spouse even if you have no will. They can go into banks with little more than a death certificate and assume control of accounts. Sure you can simulate a lot of with contracts but it requires a great deal more work, has to be airtight for every last thing.

Vicente says

It's largely civil and societal. The religious stuff is window dressing for LEGAL recognition of everything that follows from forming a family. However informally, when you enter a marriage there are a host of legal consequences that follow from it by long-established practices.

How different is that from say hundreds of years ago when a husband died, leaving his "assets" to his legit son and wife. They didnt exactly have loads of lawyers back than.

I miss the GOP. Anyone who argues that today's mob of wannabe populists are anything but a shell of the GOP is not being honest. If you weren't actually alive and voting during the rise of Reagan then you don't understand. Lots of historical revisionism about him. I still remember his first debate when he scolded Democrats for diverging from the greatness of FDR -- a man Reagan revered as a true American hero. Shit, today, the mouth frothing republican mosh pit acts as if FDR was some sort of communist. Were Reagan alive today, I have no doubt he'd waltz into the GOP convention and scold the crowd as if they were a bunch of bickering toadies.

OK, said my peace. Back to ignoring politcs for the utter crap it has become in our era of permanent culture warefare.

The captain likes to ride the line between idiot and genius. Usually leaning more towards the former, and blaming the "liberal media" is laughable, and yet I couldn't help but really laugh at this:

CaptainShuddup says

Hunker down and enjoy the ride, we've got Romney incoming.
But you Liberals already knew that didn't you? That's why the guy who invented Obama care was carefully hand selected to run against Obama. So just shut up and enjoy the ride.

In a twisted way he makes sense, although "liberal media?" Give me a break. Also, how in the world did we end up with a president who's name rhymes with Osama, and with a middle name of Hussein at the same time that we are fighting a war or whatever it is with Islamofascist terrorists? It's almost as big a coincidence as the "the inventor of Obamacare" being the guy running against Obama.

There's more one distinct power out there when talking about "the powers that be." I still think Obama will win, because he's the better man, and is far more likeable which is what it comes down to.

And besides, the most powerful of the powers that be, actually made sure that the loser ROmney was the candidate, because the economy is going to be bad for quite a while longer, and Presidents get blamed for bad economies and credited with good economies. That is, they want Obama to win. He is perfect for them.

THey'll wait until the economy is finally ready to turn around to get a republican in there. So they can blame the democrats that were in power and say see ?

It could be quite a while.

[...]

curious2 says

: he exhorts all to join him in imposing "Christian" theocracy on America,

so 1980s... they said the same about Reagan. Later they said we would all die in a nuclear war by 1984. THEY were wrong then THEY are wrong today!

thomaswong.1986 says

they said the same about Reagan.

Mitt "tie the dog to the roof" "only the little people pay taxes" Romney is no Ronald Reagan. Though, I do acknowledge, Mitt likes to fire people, and Reagan famously fired the air traffic controllers.

curious2 says

"only the little people pay taxes"

LOL! famous words from the infamous NYC meanie... Helmsley! and not from Mitt

Certainly no where near what a well spoken mormon like Mitt would act like.

curious2 says

Mitt likes to fire people, and Reagan famously fired the air traffic controllers.

When people dont do their job.. yes they get fired...their agreement to perform as contracted has terminated... how shocking! Im sure we need to clean house in Big Govt!

Didn't you yourself say that you wanted the owner of Chic-Fil-A dead? How is that any less hateful that the stuff on the far-right?

What? Don't recall doing that.

I will not dine in a Chick-fil-A again, until the old man is gone and the corporate culture no longer funds hate groups.

I remember that remark. My way of saying it: I hope his antiquated ideas about marriage and relationships die of old age along with him and his generation.

I agree, politics has shifted so far right, that Obama is to the right of Nixon in many ways, and the neoconservatives are practically in a parallel universe any more.

thomaswong.1986 says

LOL! famous words from the infamous NYC meanie... Helmsley! and not from Mitt

Helmsley said it as a joke, and got convicted of tax evasion. Romney proposes it as policy, while concealing his tax returns.

thomaswong.1986 says

Im sure we need to clean house in Big Govt!

Yet Romney proposes to increase government spending on the military. Ron Paul campaigned on the need to reduce government spending, but the GOP refused to listen.

curious2 says

Romney proposes it as policy, while concealing his tax returns.

Same o same o talk... did the liberals talk to PWC who prepared his tax return.
NOOOOOOOOO! to afraid to ask the tax accountants.

US Govt can use a trimming.. but more, it needs a good hand in old fashion proper corporate internal controls. Like No Insider Trading by Congress, and proper verification of payments (like $3B Tax refunds to non-existent tax payers).
So money can go the really needed and not the scams and thieves.

I sure didnt see Obama fixing anything over the past 4 years.

Returning to the original topic, the GOP has lost the ability or willingness to think through policies and consequences, instead competing to be the most devout reciter of their new Doctrine of Theocratic Plutocracy:

"Some liberal writers have opined that the socioeconomic gulf separating the business wing of the GOP and the religious right make it an unstable coalition that could crack. I am not so sure. There is no basic disagreement on which direction the two factions want to take the country, merely how far it should go. The plutocrats would drag us back to the Gilded Age; the theocrats to the Salem witch trials. If anything, the two groups are increasingly beginning to resemble each other. Many televangelists have espoused what has come to be known as the prosperity gospel — the health-and-wealth/name-it-and-claim-it gospel of economic entitlement. If you are wealthy, it is a sign of God’s favor. If not, too bad! This rationale may explain why some poor voters will defend the prerogatives of billionaires."

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/gop-insider-how-religion-destroyed-my-party

What I find interesting though is they nominated the only other person in the country who actually signed Obamneycare. The lobbyists, crony capitalists, lemon socialists, and campaign financiers profit either way, but everyone else loses worse with Romney. The commercial media (brought to you by the recipients of corporate welfare) famously ignored Ron Paul, even though he outpolled the President nationally, and the GOP actually booed Rep. Paul during debates. In addition to losing any semblance of sanity, the GOP have lost even the civility to conduct a debate without booing the least crazy voice in the room.

Curious2,

Believe it or not, I agree with most of what's in that article.

Both parties are Keynesians since Nixon in 1971. Money has no backing so deficit spending is inevitable and overleveraged collateral is the source of trillions in "wealth" creation among the central banks. It matters not which side you are discussing. They both have issues so important "they can't afford NOT to deficit spend" - whether it be social programs for the underprivileged, or wars in the Middle East. Supposedly, we can't afford NOT to. We're broke, but because we can print new debt at any time, we do. Essentially, to them, it's IMPOSSIBLE to truly be broke. Where once the banks leveraged real collateral at 20 to 1 at the most, we now leverage EVERYTHING from coffee beans to real estate at 50 to 1, 100 to 1, 150 to 1! Picking on one side without picking on the other is to prove how blind you are. There is an 800 pound gorilla in the room and everyone is complaining about the monkeys in a slapping fight on the couch.

Post 1968 I don't think the democrats had much for any real ideas. Granted much of what democrats say today was pretty much what republicans had for ideas long ago.

Obamacare came from Romney care which came from Hillarycare which came from some bush 41 republicans

cap and trade was a republican idea.

The democrats really don't have a base because they pretty much killed much of it off. Unions for example have been abandoned by the left. Clinton voted in NAFTA and we've put on environmental restrictions and want to mandate bennies that were normally fought for by the unions. Why join a union if you can sit around and get the same stuff for free?

So the political divide is about what again? Abortion? It's going to still be legal. Guns? Same thing. Same sex marriage is going to be legal eventually in every state as it is pointless to fight against it. at the same point the religious right needs to basically end.

gun control is a dead issue as is the environment. It is employment that is the big issue. When unemployment is 8+% then nothing else matters.

It is hard for the left to fight for higher wages and bennies when there are less jobs. You have to allow the government to do things to attract businesses. If you don't give them a reason to be there then they will leave. I've seen this on a local and state level so naturally it happens on a national level.

kentm says

The Democrats' Duty: Bring the GOP Back from Crazy

The Republicans' Duty: Bring Democrats Back from Evil.

Today's neocons are indistinct from whack-a-mole "simply living" hyper vegan luddite freaks. They're both just extremists trapped in an endless loop trying to out-extreme their own compadres.

Automan Empire says

They lost their beards.

mdovell says

The democrats really don't have a base because they pretty much killed much of it off. Unions for example have been abandoned by the left. Clinton voted in NAFTA

Bingo. The Democrat base used to be working class "blue collar" Catholics.

Now it's the Castro District.

Google: 2016 Movie for a location near you. It explains Obamas anti-American roots and training. Quite an eye opener.