patrick.net

Zlxr says

If I make your day you must be bored half to death.

That's your first accurate post in this whole thread.

interesting contribution by x bush insider.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/uhkacBSlvvU&feature=player_embedded

let's not forget the Italian perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/8XRMrMdn0NQ

then there's the danish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qq3wPOvhjp8

another contribution.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/YbOXo81mxm4&feature=related

Proof indeed! I think it was the music that convinced me.

While I don't necessarily believe any of the current theories, I still firmly believe something very nefarious was going on in at least some parts of our government. Too many strange things happened surrounding the events and somebody is the US govt is covering up something.

I have a feeling they knew about it and then just let it happen as to have the public behind an invasion into Iraq and Afghanistan. Big business, big money.

"Fighting for our freedom" is the biggest joke of the 21 century. I hope the soldiers realize they're fighting and dieing for the US business machine and nothing more.

Also, to think the Mossad didn't know before hand is laughable as well. Of course they did, they're smart like that. Why they didn't tell us (or did they?) is beyond me. Maybe they're happy we're more involved in the region than ever before.

The only other thought I had was that I was disappointed the planes missed Goldman Sachs headquarters. Innocent people don't deserve to die, but that company (as well as Halliburton, BofA, Morgan Stanley, Exxon, etc.) all deserve to DIAF.

People wonder why other countries hate us. Our big businesses and financial institutions are terrorists that use the US military as police enforcement. There's a reason they flew planes into the World Trade Centers in the first place.

Zlxr says

Well all I can say is I've seen bigger fires at the refinery and it hasn't melted or fallen down yet.

So what if I'm retarded - it's what the rest of the world thinks that matters more than what I think.

Steel does not heat up that fast when only one end has a torch on it. It might bend but it doesn't pulverize itself or melt that easily. That's why we use kilns and such to fire things to high temps instead of open fire pits.

Nobody in the official investigation EVER claimed that the steel melted, yet you keep saying that, even after I have corrected you several times.

Troll.

Did you see this in Vanity Fair

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/10/kurt-eichenwald-500-days

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/10/kurt-eichenwald-500-days-excerpt

http://www.booksnreview.com/articles/1003/20120911/new-9-11-book-500-days-damning-evidence-george-bush-terrorist-attacks.htm

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/the-third-building-which-collapsed-on-911-was-not-hit-by-a-plane.html

Duh, gee Mom - I can cut & paste a bunch of crap from 911truth.org all by myself, and nobody even helped me.

Homeboy is the obvious troll in this thread.

Let's just call a spade a spade shall we? Anybody who SERIOUSLY watches all of the video evidence and uses their critical thinking faculties, cannot possibly conclude that the "official version" of the 911 story is true. Rather, it's painfully OBVIOUS that all 3 buildings came down with a LOT of extra help!! (explosives, thermite, etc).

BTW, WTC 1, 2 and 7 (building 7 was NEVER hit by any plane) are the ONLY steel reinforced buildings in the entire history of the world (before or since 9/111) that EVER came down due to "fire". And there have been plenty of examples of buildings that burned far longer that did NOT come down! So only the weak-minded sheeple who don't take the time to investigate could ever believe such lies. WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!

Truth Seeker says

Homeboy is the obvious troll in this thread.

Let's just call a spade a spade shall we? Anybody who SERIOUSLY watches all of the video evidence and uses their critical thinking faculties, cannot possibly conclude that the "official version" of the 911 story is true. Rather, it's painfully OBVIOUS that all 3 buildings came down with a LOT of extra help!! (explosives, thermite, etc).

BTW, WTC 1, 2 and 7 (building 7 was NEVER hit by any plane) are the ONLY steel reinforced buildings in the entire history of the world (before or since 9/111) that EVER came down due to "fire". And there have been plenty of examples of buildings that burned far longer that did NOT come down! So only the weak-minded sheeple who don't take the time to investigate could ever believe such lies. WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!

Yeah, Homeboy is clearly the troll for believing the vast and overwhelming body of evidence in favour of the official explanation of events. Clearly he should be swayed by a couple of videos posted by conspiracy nuts, all of whom have spent decades working in the related fields and have been published widely in international journals. Or not. Experts one and all. Google experts.

9/11 was a sophisticated deception.

Just FOLLOW THE MONEY if you really want to know why it was perpetrated upon the American people.

$$Trillion dollar wars were started in the Middle East (the longest wars in our history and still bleeding), oil prices tripled, massive new security spending for updated scanners and personnel in every airport in the world, also courthouses, sports stadiums, convention centers, etc .

In short, unbelievable profits have been made since 9/11 by the military-industrial-complex (Eisenhower was right!). When you follow the money, just about everything comes into focus and suddenly makes sense.

Truth Seeker says

Let's just call a spade a spade shall we? Anybody who SERIOUSLY watches all of the video evidence and uses their critical thinking faculties, cannot possibly conclude that the "official version" of the 911 story is true. Rather, it's painfully OBVIOUS that all 3 buildings came down with a LOT of extra help!! (explosives, thermite, etc).

It's not painfully obvious to me or an awful lot of other people. What qualifies as "all" the video evidence?Just what's on 911truth.org or can we include the huge body of video evidence that conflicts with what's on 911truth.org? What qualifies as seriously watching?

Truth Seeker says

BTW, WTC 1, 2 and 7 (building 7 was NEVER hit by any plane) are the ONLY steel reinforced buildings in the entire history of the world (before or since 9/111) that EVER came down due to "fire".

Not true, read my earlier post. 1,2,7 wtc weren't steel reinforced buildings, they were steel buildings. The buildings were built out of steel columns. Perimeter steel columns for the outside walls and a square bank of steel columns to form the core around the elevators. Steel trusses connected the outer columns to the inner core. This stuff isn't hard to look up and the engineering is detailed many places. It's very helpful to try to know a just a little about what you are talking about. Try it sometime.

How many screen names do you have anyway?

Bigsby must be another one of those people who believes in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy!

"Experts" can just as easily be bought off as politicians and "blue ribbon panels" who make up organizations like the 911 Commission, the Warren Commission, etc.

Do you honestly believe that a steel reinforced building like World Trade Center Building 7 could actually collapse when it was never even hit by a plane ? It too, came down EXACTLY like a controlled demolition! How is that even possible??

Answer: it is ONLY possible with the use of explosives!! Don't kid yourself, otherwise, pal !

I've only got one screen name. How many do you have Bigsby/Bob2345 ??

You said it yourself, "a square bank of steel columns to form the core around the elevators."

Here is an expert take on it from the following link:
http://wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7_051122.html

" The WTC towers were solidly constructed with 47 steel core columns and 240 perimeter steel beams. 287 steel-columns total. Many doubt that random fires/damage could cause them to collapse straight down (official theory), and suspect explosives."

Again, these are the ONLY buildings in the history of the world to EVER come down due to fire. (fire? yeah, right!)

And are you forgetting that WTC 7 was built differently from the other two, in fact it was a conventional building with the standard, steel reinforcement. Yet it also "mysteriously" came down after suffering relatively modest damage from falling debris!

Truth Seeker says

Bigsby must be another one of those people who believes in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy!

And you must be another one of those internet experts - camped in front of your computer in your underpants, proudly wearing your tin foil hat. You put your trust in a handful of conspiracy nuts, the vast majority of whom have little or no knowledge of the actual science involved and even less of the actual information gathered. And yet here you are laughably chastising people who prefer to rely on a wide body of scientific research done by, amazingly enough, actual experts in their field.
Your views are rather like people having hundreds of years of research on the heliocentric nature of the solar system, and then you dig up a book that's a couple of thousand years old that states the earth is the centre of the universe. And which do you believe? Ten fucking guesses.

Truth Seeker says

I've only got one screen name. How many do you have Bigsby/Bob2345

I have one. Are multiple screen names the next item on your conspiracy list? Paranoid much?

Truth Seeker says

Again, these are the ONLY buildings in the history of the world to EVER come down due to fire. (fire? yeah, right!)

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

I've heard some lame conspiracy arguments in my time Zlxr, but you've just taken the biscuit with that post.

Zlxr says

Does anyone know if there is a way to get the thermate and all the impurities out?

I don't, but I know some good doctors.

Bigsby says

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

you know that it is steel structured buildings referred to so why play the dumb ass?

coriacci1 says

Bigsby says

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

you know that it is steel structured buildings referred to so why play the dumb ass?

Perhaps he needs to be a bit more accurate with his posts. All of them. You too for that matter. Facts, they can set you free, free from wasting your time trawling through whack-job conspiracy theory videos knocked up on a whim by people who haven't got a bloody clue what they're talking about.

Homeboy says

Nobody in the official investigation EVER claimed that the steel melted, yet you keep saying that, even after I have corrected you several times.

eppur si muove!

I like watching the History Channel, but my, oh, my, when Ancient Aliens comes on I just cringe and invariably reach for the remote control. I suspect a lot of the people involved with that program share your conspiracy theories too. Says it all really.

Bigsby says,

"Your views are rather like people having hundreds of years of research on the heliocentric nature of the solar system, and then you dig up a book that's a couple of thousand years old that states the earth is the centre of the universe. And which do you believe? Ten fucking guesses."

Actually Bigsby, it's guys like you that prove my point. Remember back when the "learned men" of the day (the church) all said that the world was FLAT? That was the "official position" by the educated "authorities" and guess what? THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!! (just like you!!)

Turns out that some smart, highly observant people came along and pointed out a few inconvenient truths to them, PROVING through scientific observation that their position was completely without merit and indefensible.

Your "faith-based" viewpoint (trust our position, because we've hired a few experts that will corroborate our silly tale) very quickly gets blown out of the water when you start adding up all of the MANY inconsistencies about what really happened on 9/11

Truth Seeker says

Actually Bigsby, it's guys like you that prove my point. Remember back when the "learned men" of the day (the church) all said that the world was FLAT? That was the "official position" by the educated "authorities" and guess what? THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!! (just like you!!)

Turns out that some smart, highly observant people came along and pointed out a few inconvenient truths to them, PROVING through scientific observation that their position was completely without merit and indefensible.

Oh, yes, what a remarkably inappropriate comparison to make. Presumably these smart people are people like yourself, self-proclaimed experts on subjects they know little to nothing about, whilst your 'learned men' are not actually religious believers with nothing but a book to back-up their claims but real-life scientists, experts in their fields, widely published and well-respected (as opposed to the kooks, cranks, and tin foil brigade that you've latched on to).

BigsbyBigsby says

coriacci1 says

Bigsby says

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

you know that it is steel structured buildings referred to so why play the dumb ass?

Perhaps he needs to be a bit more accurate with his posts. All of them. You too for that matter. Facts, they can set you free, free from wasting your time trawling through whack-job conspiracy theory videos knocked up on a whim by people who haven't got a bloody clue what they're talking about.

OK Bigsby, so both you and Bob2356 are ideological soul mates and sound just like broken records. You both post a hell of a lot on these forums but choose mostly to attack the messengers rather than refute the actual EVIDENCE THAT CLEARLY SHOWS the WTC buildings came down due to explosives.

But don't take my word for it! Just watch the video evidence showing all of those innocent people getting injured or killed from the many blasts that were systematically going off 80 floors down from where the planes hit. Way down in the basement and lobby where it would have been completely impossible for "fire" from kerosene to traverse that far through buildings specifically designed to isolate each floor from fire.

Or how about the many video accounts of the firemen talking/shouting about the many explosives going off, warning their co-workers and the public that explosives were going off, etc, etc?? Why do you conveniently sweep all of that under the rug?

Yet that's only a small part of the evidence that intelligent people are bringing up in this forum. There is LOTS more damning evidence if you've got the courage to look at it with any shred of intellectual honesty Bigsby

Truth Seeker says

OK Bigsby, so both you and Bob2356 are ideological soul mates and sound just like broken records.

We sound like broken records? Ha. There's nothing ideological about what we are saying. We choose to put our trust in experts, you choose to put yours in kids making Youtube videos and cranks embarrassing themselves with their outlandish conspiracy theories and pseudo-science.
And by the way, the evidence, the evidence published by multiple groups of experts, demonstrates that what you say about explosives is false. What more can we say? You choose not to believe it. Fine, but that makes you the kook, not us.

And one other thing, I've never seen you or the original poster comment on anything else but this thread. Are you one and the same person or do you go around as a group to different forums simply posting up this conspiracy theory of yours?

Bigsby says

Oh, yes, what a remarkably inappropriate comparison to make. Presumably these smart people are people like yourself, self-proclaimed experts on subjects they know little to nothing about, whilst your 'learned men' are not actually religious believers with nothing but a book to back-up their claims but real-life scientists, experts in their fields, widely published and well-respected (as opposed to the kooks, cranks, and tin foil brigade that you've latched on to).

What's the matter Bigsby? You don't believe your own lying eyes????? LOL!

Actually, I think that your position that the towers somehow came down at the speed of gravity due to burning kerosene pretty much equates to trying to say that "the earth is flat!".

Tinfoil hats??

Newsflash Bigsby - the laws of physics blow that 'pancake theory' of yours completely out of the water! That's right, it's quite impossible for any building to collapse floor by floor as fast as a rock (there would ALWAYS be some time delay as each floor fell upon itself) .

Go watch the excellent documentary on Youtube, '911 Mysteries' which goes into a lot more detail about this and many, many other inconvenient truths if you need to be schooled, Bigsby~

So it's obvious that your non-thinking, childlike belief in the fairy tale promoted about 'the official story about 9/11' represents a perfect analogy to those who ignored the real evidence, while stubbornly clinging to the notion that the world was FLAT!

Truth Seeker says

What's the matter Bigsby? You don't believe your own lying eyes????? LOL!

Actually, I think that your position that the towers somehow came down at the speed of gravity due to burning kerosene pretty much equates to trying to say that "the earth is flat!".

Tinfoil hats??

Newsflash Bigsby - the laws of physics blow that 'pancake theory' of yours completely out of the water! That's right, it's quite impossible for any building to collapse floor by floor as fast as a rock (there would ALWAYS be some time delay as each floor fell upon itself) .

Go watch the excellent documentary on Youtube, '911 Mysteries' which goes into a lot more detail about this and many, many other inconvenient truths if you need to be schooled, Bigsby~

So it's obvious that your non-thinking, childlike belief in the fairy tale promoted about 'the official story about 9/11' represents a perfect analogy to those who ignored the real evidence, while stubbornly clinging to the notion that the world was FLAT!

It's amusing that you think yourself more of an expert on this than holders of PhDs who have actually studied and published on the subject and have spent untold hours examining what actually happened on 9/11. Your conceit is baffling. And misplaced.

Oh, and what about all of those Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (over a thousand of them and growing) who are courageously putting their jobs and professional reputations on the line by publicly refuting "the official story of 9/11"???

If you need more proof, Bigsby, go to their website and start brushing up on your non-existent, critical thinking skills. You might actually learn something...LOL!

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html

Truth Seeker says

Oh, and what about all of those Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (over a thousand of them and growing) who are courageously putting their jobs and professional reputations on the line by publicly refuting "the official story of 9/11"???

If you need more proof, Bigsby, go to their website and start brushing up on your non-existent, critical thinking skills. You might actually learn something...LOL!

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html

Ho, ho, ho. And what about all the other scientists who don't hold these outliers' views? You know, the ones who actually carried out the research into the event. And where is it written that architects and engineers cannot be conspiracy freaks? How many of those people actually have detailed knowledge of the events, have done research on the matter, have been published..? I'm afraid it's you who is not engaging their critical thinking skills. You are a conspiracy theorist so you find fellow believers to reinforce your view. I don't have anything invested in either argument, so it's purely a matter of assessing the published information - you know, using critical thinking skills, something you seem to have suspended.

Bigsby says

It's amusing that you think yourself more of an expert on this than holders of PhDs who have actually studied and published on the subject and have spent untold hours examining what actually happened on 9/11. Your conceit is baffling. And misplaced.

Bigsby, when did YOU get YOUR PHD in structural engineering?? You keep ignoring the point-by-point evidence that we keep bringing up while pointing to "experts" who are easily be bought-off and corrupted (just like politicians).

Here's a novel idea Bigsby. What about using your own powers of observation and your own critical thinking skills?

I challenge you to take a hard look at the amazing body of evidence provided in the '911 Mysteries' documentary, the AE911Truth.org website (1,706 professionals, including a bunch of PHD's), the 'Loose Change' documentary, as well as SCORES of websites that directly REFUTE the "official story about 9/11".

If you've got even a shred of intellectual honesty and aren't completely stupid, your opinion will almost certainly change once you observe the very real evidence and finally free your mind from all of those "official" fairy tales.

Truth Seeker says

Bigsby, when did YOU get YOUR PHD in structural engineering?? You keep ignoring the point-by-point evidence that we keep bringing up while pointing to "experts" who are easily be bought-off and corrupted (just like politicians).

Here's a novel idea Bigsby. What about using your own powers of observation and your own critical thinking skills?

I challenge you to take a hard look at the amazing body of evidence provided in the '911 Mysteries' documentary, the AE911Truth.org website (1,706 professionals, including a bunch of PHD's), the 'Loose Change' documentary, as well as SCORES of websites that directly REFUTE the "official story about 9/11".

If you've got even a shred of intellectual honesty and aren't completely stupid, your opinion will almost certainly change once you observe the very real evidence and finally free your mind from all of those "official" fairy tales.

Seriously, I don't understand the logic of this line of argument. There are thousands of pages of PUBLISHED research that refutes the points you have raised on here. You just choose to deny them. I'm not an expert, but I've read plenty of the material. What exactly do you want a non-expert to do? Take the information from the reports and put it into forum language for you to read? That's rank stupidity. Just go straight to the original reports and read them. And please give all this paid-off nonsense a rest. Exactly how big does this conspiracy need to get? At this point it must be involving tens if not hundreds of thousands of people... at least in your mind.

Bigsby says

I don't have anything invested in either argument, so it's purely a matter of assessing the published information - you know, using critical thinking skills, something you seem to have suspended.

You say you "I don't have anything invested in either argument"? That's a joke, right?? By the looks of it Bigsby, you've been burning up these forums and seem *VERY* attached to your mistaken BELIEF that the 9/11 fairy tale is somehow the gospel truth!

Again, Bigsby, how about you try to refute, POINT BY POINT, all of the evidence brought forth in the following link:

http://wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7_051122.html

Go ahead, give it your best shot...LOL!!

Bigsby, what do you say to the thousands of architects and engineers (including those from multiple websites) who REFUTE the "official position" ? Do you think all of them must be crazy?

Many have said that the 9/11 Commission Report conveniently OMITS and/or sidesteps some very damnable evidence that points directly to the use of thermite (and/or nano thermite) explosives. How else would you explain the FACT that there was red hot, "molten steel" below each of the buildings that continued to emit heat for MONTHS after the buildings fell????? It actually melted the bottom of the rescue and cleanup workers shoes for weeks after 9/11. That is DIRECT EVIDENCE of thermite explosives and the "official story" is completely SILENT about that fact!

Don't you think you at least owe it to yourself to take a hard look at exactly what these competing experts are all talking about??

Truth Seeker says

You say you "I don't have anything invested in either argument"? That's a joke, right?? By the looks of it Bigsby, you've been burning up these forums and seem *VERY* attached to your mistaken BELIEF that the 9/11 fairy tale is somehow the gospel truth!

I'm not vested in it. I'm not a supporter of the Republicans or Bush or even an American. What I do resent is people like you throwing around the sort of comments you have in this thread solely because you're rather attached to an outlandish conspiracy theory. I like the scientific method. I like the fact that the explanation for what happened is uniform across all respected publications. You ignore that and put your trust in Youtube videos and the mistaken belief that because some architects and engineers also share your conspiracy theory that is somehow proof. It's not. As I've said again and again, the vast weight of evidence points to you being very much mistaken.

Truth Seeker says

Many have said that the 9/11 Commission Report conveniently OMITS and/or sidesteps some very damnable evidence that points directly to the use of thermite (and/or nano thermite) explosives. How else would you explain the FACT that there was red hot, "molten steel" below each of the buildings that continued to emit heat for MONTHS after the buildings fell????? It actually melted the bottom of the rescue and cleanup workers shoes for weeks after 9/11. That is DIRECT EVIDENCE of thermite explosives and the "official story" is completely SILENT about that fact!

It actually melted their shoes after weeks? Pretty impressive, how did they avoid burning their feet just out of curiosity? If someone has the technology to retain heat at 2500+ F for that long they could make a fortune. Why don't some of the people with melted shoes patent this and become very rich?

There is no such thing as explosive thermite, even nano thermites. They are cutting agents. The highest detonation velocity anyone has gotten with nano thermites is 40 ms. Explosives have detonation velocities of 8000+ m/s.