patrick.net

leo707 says

zzyzzx says

It's been several days and I still can't find any Sandy Hook Shooting related Pedobear pics. You people are disappointing me.

You fucking disgust me.

Unbelievable, just when you thought the right couldn't get any worse.

The filth this board spews!

OUTRAGEOUS!

Call it Crazy says

Your stance is that we need to have new laws, regulations and bans on assault weapons. By looking at this data, that's not where the problem lies...

The problem lies in the people behind the guns!

High caliber, semi-automatic handguns are a HUGE problem. Just ask inner-city cops. Easy to conceal and easy to fire 20 rounds in 20 seconds. (you never hear about drive by knifings.)

Automatic weapons are pretty much gone except for the wacko militia types in Idaho, Montana etc. I think machine guns, etc, have been outlawed for a long time.

Anyway, with all of your statistics you seem to be unintentionally making the case that we should go the way of Britain and pretty much ban them altogether.

Look, I understand the problem is complicated with no complete answers. But there are steps that could be taken to minimize gun violence. The fight against the gun industry will have to be like the fight against the cigarette industry. You can have your gun (or cigarette) but it is going to cost $$$$. That money will start to pay for the expensive solutions that are needed.

leo707 says

You do realize that two of the four guns used in the Columbine shootings were 30 year old shotguns?

they would have bought cooler guns if they could.

I rest my fucking case.

Bellingham Bill says

they would have bought cooler guns if they could.

No argument there, but the inability to get cool guns most certainly did not stop them.

I like the pink guns idea.

leo707 says

Yes, lets usher in the next era of peace and require all guns to be licensed by hello kitty.

That's actually not a bad idea. Assault weapons should be the ones in garish colors, not the harmless water guns.

You can buy any "airsoft" replica you want in Japan, and they don't require the stupid orange muzzles.

Maybe around 20% of the problem is that walking around like Rambo is too attractive to unstable people.

It's not the entire issue, but it contributes. Along with the copy-cat element, the fun people get now playing murder simulation video games.

"A woman told CNN affiliate KOIN that she saw a man wearing a hockey mask jogging through Macy's and wielding an assault rifle."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/us/oregon-mall-shooting/index.html

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/law3a.htm

" ... we are stating in no uncertain terms that we have
'zero tolerance' for the sexual exploitation of children."
Senator Orin Hatch

Call it Crazy says

But, the more troubling thing is that the reporting has shown that ALL of the shooters in the past shootings over the years either have mental health issues, treatment or on prescription SSRI drugs...

What's your point? 10 percent of the population take SSRIs. You want to lock up 10% of the population in mental institutions, just so you can have your fucking gun? Fuck you.

The NRA will dig in and nothing will change. Now if 27 politicians were killed, they have a new bill tough on firearms ownership passed in a week.

TechGromit says

The NRA will dig in and nothing will change. Now if 27 politicians were killed, they have a new bill tough on firearms ownership passed in a week.

Politicians... some... allready have someone with a gun next to them.... so they have no worry... hmmm except when someone tried to shoot Reagan.

Call it Crazy says

There have been 435 murders in a 10 month period in one city, assumingly, by handguns.

Where's the outrage from the population to these 435 deaths????

Your stance is that we need to have new laws, regulations and bans on assault weapons. By looking at this data, that's not where the problem lies...

There is a lot of outrage at all gun deaths. And do you know how many of the handguns were semi-automatic assault weapons? I'm betting the vast majority were.

What happened last Friday is a STARTING POINT for a larger discussion of ALL gun violence in America. There will be the topic changers (cars kill more!) and the double downers (We need MORE guns!).

It's all bullshit. We have more guns and more gun related injuries then any other nation on earth. More guns won't solve the problem. It may take 30 years to ween us from our gun addiction, but "a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step".

Call it Crazy says

There certainly is... but your "group" wants to keep pointing at the "gun" as the problem. That's not where the problem lies.... You just keep harping that the "evil gun" needs to go away and new laws have to be institute

More guns = more gun deaths.
Less guns = less gun deaths.

Simple formula proved over and over again. Changing human nature's tendency towards violence is difficult. Changing the tools used to act out the violence, much easier.

You keep harping on the "mass shootings" when there are a mass of shootings every single day. You implied there was not enough outrage over the other shooting deaths.
Call it Crazy says

There have been 435 murders in a 10 month period in one city, assumingly, by handguns.

Where's the outrage from the population to these 435 deaths????

I'm saying Sandy Hook is starting a conversation at minimizing all gun deaths.

Call it Crazy says

So, in this past instance, is it the guns fault for this tragedy or could the individual person be at fault?

And if he'd only had a knife? It would still be his fault but the result would be far better.

In the end, your "group" will finally admit that guns are a problem but, hey, there are far too many out there in the hands of bad guys to do anything about it. Got keep selling guns to the good guys. Insanity.

TechGromit says

Now if 27 politicians were killed, they have a new bill tough on firearms ownership passed in a week.

+1.

These kids weren't 1% Job Creators, so we should just move on.

Vicente says

TechGromit says

Now if 27 politicians were killed, they have a new bill tough on firearms ownership passed in a week.

+1.

These kids weren't 1% Job Creators, so we should just move on.

The issue right now is that we're all outraged and feel powerless to do anything... so we demand change. In a few weeks it will all blow over and we'll bury our heads in the sand.

This issue isn't about guns, it's about mentally ill people owning guns. And if we were to ban all people who have been diagnosed from owning weapons, they would find another way to get 'em.

Still can't get the image of some of my high school teachers strapped with a glock out of my mind. It would be like the scene of Office Space where Michael Bolton is listeting to gangsta rap on his way to work.

What if a teachers pulls that scene from Pulp Fiction - "Say "what" motherfucker one more time, say it!"

Call it Crazy says

rooemoore says

More guns = more gun deaths.

Less guns = less gun deaths.

FALSE

Go back and do so research when we had the assault weapons ban and see if gun deaths went down.

So your point is a country with no guns would have as much gun violence as a country will 300 million guns? Of course not.

Your point is that Americans are by nature more prone to violence than other countries and so even if we took away the guns we would still find a way to kill each other at the same rate? Nope.

The research you are asking me to do -- the stuff you have posted here only shows that gun deaths did not go up when the assault ban was lifted.

In other words, the assault ban did not keep enough guns out of the market. The assault ban was not effective. But gun deaths continue. So why not look to countries like Britain where strict gun laws have reduced gun deaths?

In everything you post your unintentionally arguing for a complete gun ban. Call it Crazy says

elliemae says

This issue isn't about guns, it's about mentally ill people owning guns. And if we were to ban all people who have been diagnosed from owning weapons, they would find another way to get 'em.

BINGO!!!

Like this "bingo". Riddle me this: If there were no guns to get how would they "find another way to get 'em"? Make them in their basements?

To which we finally come back to your real argument, that there are already too many guns out there, there is the 2nd amendment, and the NRA, so strict gun laws wouldn't work.

I say it is time we try.

Banning X does not make X go away.

The real world is not patnet. Guns are not like Shrek.

Call it Crazy says

elliemae says

This issue isn't about guns, it's about mentally ill people owning guns. And if we were to ban all people who have been diagnosed from owning weapons, they would find another way to get 'em.

Yes it is about gun control and the the President agrees.

Lets suppose, for a (very brief) moment, that we ban guns. All guns, doesn't matter which ones. Shotguns, rifles, pistols, little bitty derringers, you name it, we ban it. Paintball guns too, because they can be lethal if given the opportunity. Fake guns, rubber guns (used in acting, for example), starter's pistols... All of them.

Anyone with a gun has to turn it in immediately. Doesn't matter if they have animals and are afraid that they'll be killed by critters (like me), doesn't matter if they work in prisons and are working to ensure the prisoners don't overtake the staff, doesn't matter if they are police officers, ban them guns.

Do you honestly believe that everyone will turn them in? Or, isn't it more likely that they will become highly valued on the black market and the only people who don't own guns are the law-abiding citizens?

Let's imagine that for a moment we ban assault riffles again and with large clips and mags.

That's a start. Not the solution, but a start.

Let's imagine for a moment that we can barcode every bullet just like every other item forsale in the world.

Limit the ammo.

elliemae says

Lets suppose, for a (very brief) moment, that we ban guns. All guns, doesn't matter which ones. Shotguns, rifles, pistols, little bitty derringers, you name it, we ban it. Paintball guns too, because they can be lethal if given the opportunity. Fake guns, rubber guns (used in acting, for example), starter's pistols... All of them.

Anyone with a gun has to turn it in immediately. Doesn't matter if they have animals and are afraid that they'll be killed by critters (like me), doesn't matter if they work in prisons and are working to ensure the prisoners don't overtake the staff, doesn't matter if they are police officers, ban them guns.

Do you honestly believe that everyone will turn them in? Or, isn't it more likely that they will become highly valued on the black market and the only people who don't own guns are the law-abiding citizens?

For similar reasons progressives thought banning alcohol would fix all ills of the society. The American public is now older and wiser.

Progressives thinks progress is a virtue in and of itself, so all starts are good starts.

How laughable is that?

Then we laugh together.

crying? about what? loss of innocent life? ready to talk abortion? no? big suprize. yawn.

To 121212: Then its just me laughing at your superior intellect.

One thing is for sure this will not be the last tragedy, unfortunately, but the tide is moving and it's moving towards far stricter control of firearms.

we may be losing, that is a true statement.

Your side has amassed a collection of deviants, social misfits, druggies, and malcontents. You're a rabid swarm of locus, like nothing this world has ever seen. And your progressive liberal leftist marching orders came through Sol Alinsky, right from Satan himself: Destroy the Christian soul of America. Even the Bible says our side loses to your side - eventually. But, in the meanwhile, we shall fight the good fight. Game on.

Life is life, and murder is murder.

Your losing and your side is the devil. Your church is corrupt, it never was the church of Jess, it's full of pedophiles and thieves.

Satan is the head of your sinful excuse of a church.

Do you understand this?

Life is Life, Murder is Murder & Nothing Dies it only transforms.

What was here at the beginning of the universe will be here at the end.

So What is your point?

Your still losing thank GOD!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-17/us-urged-to-consider-australia-gun-laws-example/4431262

US urged to consider Australia's gun laws example

A former head of Australia's anti-gun coalition says US president Barack Obama should use his status as a two-term president to push gun reforms through Congress.

There are growing calls for action on gun control after the slaughter of 20 young children and six of their teachers at a Connecticut school on Friday.

As the US once again struggles with the issue of gun control, the success of John Howard's 1996 laws banning semi-automatic weapons in Australia has been raised in the American debate.

The New York Times has referred to Australia's gun laws as a "road map" for the US, saying that "in the 18 years before the law, Australia suffered 13 mass shootings - but not one in the 14 years after the law took full effect."

Former Australian deputy prime minister Tim Fischer says he is not surprised the Australian example is being cited, saying time has shown that the strong national laws were justified.

But he says the US politicians he has spoken to "can't get their minds" around the banning of assault weapons, or even uniform licensing laws.

"I am making very little progress... as they just could not get their mind around the simplicity of having a harmonised shooter's licence scheme and weapon registration scheme," he said.

"It is sad that the death toll from guns is horrific in the USA because there are so many millions of guns with so little cross-checking, character checking.

AUDIO: US urged to learn from Australia's gun laws (AM)
"A ban on assault weapons have been allowed to largely expire through a lack of willpower to stand up to the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the nonsense too often spoken by the NRA."

In 1996 Rebecca Peters was the chair of Australia's National Coalition for Gun Control.

She went on to work on anti-gun campaigns in the US and eventually headed up the International Action Network on Small Arms.

"This year there have been 16 mass shootings [in America] but this latest one, which is the worst in terms of the number of victims but also because the victims are small children, it just seems so much worse so that really caps a very, very violent year," she said.

A ban on assault weapons have been allowed to largely expire through a lack of willpower to stand up to the National Rifle Association and the nonsense too often spoken by the NRA.

Former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer
In August Mr Howard wrote an opinion piece for the Fairfax press in which he said "there is a near religious fervour about protecting the right of Americans to have their guns".

In the wake of the massacre in Aurora, Colorado, earlier this year, he expressed his disappointment with Mr Obama's failure to act on gun control.

But Ms Peters says political timing and opinion polls are now on Mr Obama's side.

"In the election that's just gone the candidates supported by the gun lobby did not do well, did not win their races in general," she said.

"Also, the opinion polls show that even gun owners and members of the NRA, the majority of them when you say to them, would you support for example a requirement that every gun sale must involve a criminal background check, most of them say yes.

"So those factors means that it is possible that on this occasion something could come of it so that these lives would not be lost completely in vain."

Call it Crazy says

121212 says

So, according to you and your friends any meaningful gun control legislation will make no difference anywhere in the world.

That's because your delusional.

Go ask the people in Australia if they feel safer and if it worked for them...

http://patrick.net/?p=1220026

So according to you we should do nothing. NO!

That I can promise your is not the dish of the day.

those murders at Fort Hood ... they just don't get much time on the Obama new cycle, do they? Weird.

who do you silly freaks think will stop the big mean robbers, when the Obama free cash spigot stops flowing, and they show up at your door for your food, wife, daughter, or whatever? Do you silly freaks think they will give you a free pass because you helped disarm good Americans? Dumbasses.

All you leftist pukes want is equal exposure to victimhood and total reliance on Lord Barry. Dumbasses

Life is life, murder is murder. The left should end abortions right away if they want to save 3,000 innocent babies each day in America.

Bap, we see eye to eye on many issues but I afraid that banning abortion will only increase the number of people growing up as unwanted children. We already have enough criminals and crazies.

Bap33 says

Life is life, murder is murder. The left should end abortions right away if they want to save 3,000 innocent babies each day in America.

It's not about banning abortion. I happen to not like abortion, infact nobody does.

But, what you are suggesting and the course your party is taking is ridiculous.

You want meaningful change, well you need policy. You need socio-economic policy affecting those at risk.

Policy affecting the poor, adoptions, child welfare, most would agree government run child protective services is awful.

You think just banning abortion is the solution, no it's going to create more problems. It already is.

121212 says

You think just banning abortion is the solution, no it's going to create more problems. It already is.

apply your same thought process to your knee-jerk, anti-gun horse shit.

Peter P says

Bap, we see eye to eye on many issues but I afraid that banning abortion will only increase the number of people growing up as unwanted children. We already have enough criminals and crazies.

just pointing out that their ridiculous stance on "life" is just more bullshit.

Abortions would be reduced if getting one was as hard as getting a weapon and a ccp in California.

Bap33 says

Abortions would be reduced if getting one was as hard as getting a weapon and a ccp in California.

regarding abortions in ca, wow your out of your mind, do you really want chaos?

why do you ignore the policy?

Bap33 says

your knee-jerk, anti-gun horse shit.

your knee jerk anti abortion, non policy horse shit isn't nice either.!!

knee jerk really. do you hate yourself?

Bap33 says

Peter P says

Bap, we see eye to eye on many issues but I afraid that banning abortion will only increase the number of people growing up as unwanted children. We already have enough criminals and crazies.

just pointing out that their ridiculous stance on "life" is just more bullshit.

Abortions would be reduced if getting one was as hard as getting a weapon and a ccp in California.

I would prefer that they require a child permit in the first place.

Even though I support abortion right, it is at best a necessary evil in my opinion.

upisdown says

They stole them from people that bought them legally.

Going back far enough all guns were owned legally, perhaps by the manufacturers, at some point.