patrick.net

I would love to see the following options available to me for an individual policy:

Fixed premium that increases only with CPI or equivalent.

Deductible that increases with age, predetermined.

Multi-year contract that allows this locked-in rate for X years.

We can lock in on just about every other kind of contract, and the whole point of insurance is to protect us from the financial unknowns of medical cost. Yet, the costs are still unknown, now, when an insurer can take such giant arbitrary leaps in price.

pianist says

Yet, the costs are still unknown, now, when an insurer can take such giant arbitrary leaps in price.

We need insurance against insurance cost increases!

We need insurance against insurance cost increases!

Ala the CATO "Health-status insurance" white paper?

pianist says

I would love to see the following options available to me for an individual policy:

Fixed premium that increases only with CPI or equivalent.

Single payer. IF there is only one payer, that one payer can to a great degree set the price. Providers can try another country where they will be paid less if they have a problem with it.

"But the government can never do anythng right."

People are so fricking gullible.

pianist says

Fixed premium that increases only with CPI or equivalent.

You would also have to exclude yourself from any newer more expensive medical treatments in the future for this to work. That might be a little tricky if you got sick with something that couldn't be cured when you signed your policy but is curable later for a higher cost.

OO says

I am just amazed and amused by their stupidity.

The stupidity is induced by decades of failed education system and embedded distortion of American political system. All those who believe in Dem/Rep opposition are nothing by stupid. There is practically no differences between them.

(Well, in recent history Dems mostly care about financial capital, while Reps care about all major corporations, but this practically does not matter to 99% of people.)

Praising Obama reform is nothing but stupidity. The guy actually had opportunity to reform healthcare, he rather opted to create a reform that only insures profits of owners and top executives of insurance companies. Worst of all his reform kills ANY chance of any meaningful healthcare reform for decades to go. He deserves the worst punishment for this. (If only there was any remotely better candidate to vote for.)

So private insurance rates for individuals are totally unrealistic. People group together (small companies, etc) to get leverage to negotiate lower terms. I imagine the larger the group, the better the terms. SO - why not create a corporation including all (or maybe just 99%) of US citizens, then see what BS BS comes up with?

That's the same as saying this: If I hold a gun to your head and charge you $1 million to remain alive, tough, I have the right to charge whatever I want. Who are you to demand anything? Do not live, just die.

No one is holding a gun to your head though....

Yes, the insurance companies are holding a gun to my head, and yours.

Everyone eventually needs medical care.

John Spikes says

You have no right to anyone's product, no matter your need.

Sorry, buddy, but you do.

This here, boy, is the United States of America, and we do have rights. Obviously you have no idea how Health Care works, or how much of it already comes from the government.

We have a right to participate in that system of Health Care, provided by our government, but we are barred from getting that access.

All any one has asked for is access to the same Health Insurance Congress people enjoy.

Yes, the insurance companies are holding a gun to my head, and yours.

Everyone eventually needs medical care.

We are the ones to blame, for this silly concept that we can't have medical care, without "insurance"

Meccos says

No one is holding a gun to your head though....

When you are at end of life, and have a chance for a cure, or more years with your family, they certainly are.

Yes, the insurance companies are holding a gun to my head, and yours.

Everyone eventually needs medical care.

Everyone may need medical care but you do not need to get it through one particular carrier or for that matter any carrier. You choose to buy insurance. You wanted the aca...you got it.

David Losh says

John Spikes says

You have no right to anyone's product, no matter your need.

Sorry, buddy, but you do.

This here, boy, is the United States of America, and we do have rights. Obviously you have no idea how Health Care works, or how much of it already comes from the government.

We have a right to participate in that system of Health Care, provided by our government, but we are barred from getting that access.

All any one has asked for is access to the same Health Insurance Congress people enjoy.

Perhaps it is the gov't getting involved that is the problem. The sense of entitlement in this country is like a cancer... it will kill us all.

Meccos says

Perhaps it is the gov't getting involved that is the problem.

Wrongo! You Meccos are the problem. Yes, you personally, by buying into and propogating that line of complete bullshit that the government is always the problem.

Whose interest does that line of bullshit serve? To find the answer, follow the money.

The only counterweight to corporate power is government power.

Meccos says

The sense of entitlement in this country is like a cancer... it will kill us all.

I love this argument, especially from conservatives.

We have a government by the People.

We forget that the principles of freedom were based on getting rid of the monarchy systems.

According to conservatives we should be allowed to go back to having monarchies in the form of corporate control over such basic rights as education, health care, and energy.

These are basic rights. Then we throw in Social Security, which every one contributes to, and it all gets wrapped up in the flag of entitlements.

I think the vision is that we have this poor working class, and untouchables, while the Kings, and Queens of this once great country reap all the benefits.

That's the way I look at it. I also look at how much we spend to protect those Kings, and Queens, and the endeavors they have around the world.

Military spending, patents, medical research that is given freely to private enterprise, farm subsidies you need a battery of accounts to access, all of these things also add up to entitlements, but they never get pointed to.

Meccos says

The sense of entitlement in this country is like a cancer... it will kill us all.

This statement itself may be true, but healthcare is NOT a form of entitlement. It is rather similar to national defense.

The role of a government is to protect lives and private properties. Healthcare fits into that role.

Every enterprising conservative SHOULD support universal healthcare. Employer-provided plans are just tools for wage-slavey.

Patrick, have you consider going for a group policy?

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/small-business-health-insurance

Individual policies worry me because they are not guarantee issues.

Peter P says

It is rather similar to national defense.

One of the things that is a distant memory was the AIDS crisis of the 1980s which threatened to bankrupt the private Health Insurance.

All of a sudden a group of healthy young men, and women began needing expensive Health Care treatments. The government was forced to step in and provide more care, more research.

As it turned out this was a global health crisis.

We are all still paying for this today, both in higher premiums, and higher medical costs.

Meccos says

Perhaps it is the gov't getting involved that is the problem.

Wrongo! You Meccos are the problem. Yes, you personally, by buying into and propogating that line of complete bullshit that the government is always the problem.

Whose interest does that line of bullshit serve? To find the answer, follow the money.

The only counterweight to corporate power is government power.

Patrick why do you liberals accuse people like me of being the problem for holding onto my beliefs? The prob with liberals are their intolerance to opposing opinions. In reality govt is the problem in many things including healthcare. Please do not put words into my mouth.... I never said the gov't is ALWAYS the prob.

The only counterweight to corporate power is government power.

This I disagree. The best counterweight to both corporate power and government power is INDIVIDUAL POWER.

Peter P says

The only counterweight to corporate power is government power.

This I disagree. The best counterweight to both corporate power and government power is INDIVIDUAL POWER.

Totally agree.... in fact I would argue that corporate power is often gained through gov't. As you said Patrick follow the money. There is a lot of money from corporate lobbies.

I'm 48 and have no health insurance. I spent all the money I've saved over the years on preventative medicine - marijuana and beer.

Peter P says

Patrick, have you consider going for a group policy?

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/small-business-health-insurance

Individual policies worry me because they are not guarantee issues.

I'd like to be part of some group policy, but Patrick.net is just me.

What if I belong to some other group? Are there policies for non-employee groups? Maybe if enough Patrick.net forum users were interested, we could all get a discount and be independent of our employers' plans.

Meccos says

Totally agree.... in fact I would argue that corporate power is often gained through gov't. As you said Patrick follow the money. There is a lot of money from corporate lobbies.

Maybe I misunderstood you. OK, we agree that corporate power is often gained through government, or at least the restraint on corporate power is removed via corporate lobbying.

But I hear this same "government is the problem" line of bullshit almost every day.

Peter P says

The best counterweight to both corporate power and government power is INDIVIDUAL POWER.

There is no individual power, ever. Power comes only from being part of a group, corporate, government, or union (though that option is fading).

I'd like to be part of some group policy, but Patrick.net is just me.

I believe a spouse can be included if he/she is involved with the business.

Check if groups like ACM/IEEE provide group policies.

There is individual power. And group identity can be accidental.

For example, do I really belong in the "individualist" group? We act similarly and agree on many issues. So it has influence like a group. But there is really no group.

Free Market is also NOT a group. Yet it is more powerful than any group because it is the aggregation of all individual power.

Done! says

I singed up for Ruthy Care.

We tell my wife we need to see a Doctor and she schedules a Doctor visit.

We get the prescription and CVS want's $75 for medicine, my wife finds it for $35.00.

There are even dirt cheap discount plans she finds that gets us $50 doctor visits.

For my family the Insurance company wanted $1400 a month. We have yet to spend more than $300 in any given month for Health care, paying out of our pocket as we go along.

My wife could have made a better, cheaper, and less convoluted health care plan, than Obama care.

BULLSHIT! You are in denial. Do you even understand the concept of insurance? I have no doubt it would be cheap to get medical treatment as long as you don't need anything besides routine doctor visits and a small amount of medication. The reason you have insurance is so that IF you have a catastrophic illness, there will be money to pay for it, and you won't have to "suck off the teat of the middle class" or however you worded it.

You fuckers think you're so goddam smart - that you could do a better job than Obama, but your plan is basically, "Gee, I'm healthy right now so it shouldn't cost so much, and when I get sick something magic will happen and everything will be o.k."

Patrick, I have Anthem, and my rate went up 21% this year. That's obviously unacceptable, but it's not anywhere close to the 74% you say yours went up. I can't help thinking that there is another factor, like, as someone else pointed out, you just happened to cross an age threshold or something.

michaelsch says

Praising Obama reform is nothing but stupidity. The guy actually had opportunity to reform healthcare, he rather opted to create a reform that only insures profits of owners and top executives of insurance companies. Worst of all his reform kills ANY chance of any meaningful healthcare reform for decades to go. He deserves the worst punishment for this. (If only there was any remotely better candidate to vote for.)

Actually, the republicans were the ones who were against single-payer. But that's o.k., go ahead and have your little fantasy reality.

So the aca passes and we see rates increase substantially...

Meccos says

So the aca passes and we see rates increase substantially...

Because the ACA failed to include any limits on premium rates.

Meccos says

So the aca passes and we see rates increase substantially...

Rates were ALREADY increasing before ACA. If you look at the actual data, not just anecdotal evidence, rate increases are LESS than they were before.

Because the ACA failed to include any limits on premium rates.

That's not true. Profit and overhead can only be a certain percentage of total income. They are legally barred from raising rates beyond that.

errc says

We are the ones to blame, for this silly concept that we can't have medical care, without "insurance"

I don't think everyone has several million dollars set aside in case they need cancer treatment. I know I don't.

Meccos says

So the aca passes and we see rates increase substantially...

Because the ACA failed to include any limits on premium rates.

Aca requires more services with the threats of less reimbursement... how could rates go lower?

Homeboy says

Meccos says

So the aca passes and we see rates increase substantially...

Rates were ALREADY increasing before ACA. If you look at the actual data, not just anecdotal evidence, rate increases are LESS than they were before.

The data I've seen indicated a higher rate of increase at least in the last year. Nevertheless the point of my comment was that one of the promises of the aca was to make healthcare more affordable... we obviously have not and likely will not see it....

Homeboy says

Because the ACA failed to include any limits on premium rates.

That's not true. Profit and overhead can only be a certain percentage of total income. They are legally barred from raising rates beyond that.

Think about that for a second. Sure insurers can take only 20% of premiums as profit now, but there is still no cap on total premiums.

So now the insurer's motive is to pay out much more for medical care so that their 20% is 20% of a bigger number.

And premiums have obviously continued to skyrocket.

Quit lying Patrick, I've been assured by every Okeydoke Liberal in the world that insurance premiums never went up, that is impossible, because Nancy Pelosi passed Obamacare with out even seeing what was in it. Insurance went up years ago under Regan, we just didn't notice until now.
And how dare you bitch about healthcare, what are you a Republican? You must not want illegal aliens to have the best Gold club member healthcare in the world, while you pay through the nose and receive shit.
Quit being a teabagger.

I just don't understand the utility of health insurance in the first place. I understand that people need health care services. I understand that people are on the other end of that trade, ready to provide health care services. For the life of me, I don't understand the need for health insurance standing in between the two.

It seems to me, that the large, unnecesary cost in this transaction, is the health insurance itself. Not only does it seem that we can do without, but they seem to be the largest inefficiency in the market of health care. I mean, if you operate under the (debatable) assumption that "everyone eventually needs health care" than why the need for a product/service that is billed as an "insurance"?

Insurance-

Risk-transfer mechanism that ensures full or partial financial compensation for the loss or damage caused by event(s) beyond the control of the insured party. Under an insurance contract, a party (the insurer) indemnifies the other party (the insured) against a specified amount of loss, occurring from specified eventualities within a specified period, provided a fee called premium is paid.

So do we ever bother to ask the role and functionality of the health insurance companies in our health care system? Is the price you pay for the risk transfer to this so called insurance, a fair market value? In a so called capitalist society, how are we to view what is "beyond the control of the insured"? And why the hell does using health care services, increase ones likelihood of going bankrupt exponentially?

There's so many questions that need to be answered if "we" are to solve this "health" "care" "problem", but we don't seem to be asking the right ones. Instead its purely political, with both sides looking to seemingly make things worse!

errc says

I just don't understand the utility of health insurance in the first place. I understand that people need health care services. I understand that people are on the other end of that trade, ready to provide health care services. For the life of me, I don't understand the need for health insurance standing in between the two.

Liberal failed logic #105792

"Yeah but if we can make a national health care system based on mandating that every one in America has to feed these greedy bastards pocket while they are free to raise the price at will. Then that's a start..."