patrick.net

Agreed. There is no one thing to blame. Nor do I believe one gender is to blame more than the other. I'm an equal opportunity blamer. Don’t cherry pick my analysis! :O

Ground breaking research regarding our conversations at the below link:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/kBYcyDoh-XI

Monogamy is sure tricky, but a worthwhile experiment with the right woman (READ: not a bracelet). Some think it's totally unnatural. Could be. However, I think things like unconditional love and loyalty are some of the most profoundly beautiful traits any human being could posses.

I think it helps if this woman is a solid friend first -- someone you just like being around, and whose opinions you actually seek out on various matters. The romance should grow out of that, I think. Just my opinion.

I'm in no position to give advice, but based on my own failures, I would suggest to any man to try not to let your weaknesses show too much. Stoicism and grace under pressure is paramount in a relationship. Even when you don't feel very strong, you must act like you do. It will help the longevity of the thing.

Also important: you need your own room. A shed, garage, cave...whatever. It is not an option!

Oh! Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/rCF7Dnov8vA

BRP001 says

Oh! Here's one:

Great Glenn Ford flick!

JodyChunder says

BRP001 says

Oh! Here's one:

Great Glenn Ford flick!

Don't know why I started thinking about this stuff in this thread. Could it be all the love, marriage, children and morality issues being discussed? Naaaaaaah!

I sometimes wonder what people 60 years from now will think of us. What will their culture be like then? Will they look back with scorn at how foolish were were, or will they look back and say, "gee - those were the good old days." If the latter, I wish to die young.

Where is Patrick when you need him?

Marriage is relentless, ongoing warfare, in which each participant constantly jockeys for advantage and power over the other.

The combatants occasionally declare a truce and have sex. Declaring love and loyalty is a diversion or a sucker punch.

Nothing makes a girl's pudenda quiver like the sight of a totally defeated man, crawling and begging.

Women don't mind if you leave them, but only if you lead a lonely, miserable, and poverty stricken life and then die of some painful disease.

Strap a 20 year old model to your arm and get a yacht, they will commission a sniper.

Female here, and you guys are pathetic.

Marry someone who's your best friend, whose company you enjoy, who makes you laugh, whom you trust and care about. If you do, you will probably be happy. If you don't, you screwed up, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

There are no end of greedy, selfish people in the world, but you don't have to marry one. If you do, you need to learn how to be a better judge of character.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

When did you become sane?

I have fits of sanity just like any jackass.

Oxygen says

here's the best comment from the article, in my opinion, and i think it's even better than the article itself

Sorry man, this is complete and utter bullshit.

A marriage in THIS culture has to be a partnership, not a patriarchy. There will likely be times where the man is un/under employed and the woman is the main breadwinner. I personally know of two situations like this, one where the husband and wife are both believers in the patriarch model while the other marriage is more balanced. The patriarch couple is very stressed - the husband feels shitty because he is not earning and the wife is losing respect for him because she has to support them. The balanced couple has a LOT less stress.

A patriarchy is just not compatible with that situation. It is also a lousy model for kids.

BayArea says

I am a bit discouraged at just how many people I know who don't seem to be too happy in their marriages.

Sounds like you are hanging around with the wrong folks. Are they Hipsters?

denise says

Female here, and you guys are pathetic.

Marry someone who's your best friend, whose company you enjoy, who makes you laugh, whom you trust and care about. If you do, you will probably be happy. If you don't, you screwed up, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

There are no end of greedy, selfish people in the world, but you don't have to marry one. If you do, you need to learn how to be a better judge of character.

Yeh, I agree.
Maybe some "guys" spend too much time on the internets and the blogs and not enough time getting a life.

New Renter says

Oxygen says

here's the best comment from the article, in my opinion, and i think it's even better than the article itself

Sorry man, this is complete and utter bullshit.

A marriage in THIS culture has to be a partnership, not a patriarchy. There will likely be times where the man is un/under employed and the woman is the main breadwinner. I personally know of two situations like this, one where the husband and wife are both believers in the patriarch model while the other marriage is more balanced. The patriarch couple is very stressed - the husband feels shitty because he is not earning and the wife is losing respect for him because she has to support them. The balanced couple has a LOT less stress.

A patriarchy is just not compatible with that situation. It is also a lousy model for kids.

I don't think it's an either or. If the woman is bringing home most of the bacon and the man is ok with it, it can work as well. The problem though is that the person making significantly less (or choosing to do so by staying at home mostly) needs to put the main breadwinner's job as a top priority and pick up slack in the other areas. Only that way you can be mostly free from money issues. Since today on average the man is still the main breadwinner, this is mostly an issue of the woman who does not want to accept that she has to pick up the slack and give the man a break. Also the often so heroically touted sharing of duties brings its own set of problems. Men and women do things differently and I think women often feel "inferior" because they do mostly house-work or work part time only or have a much lesser paid job and then often get their frustration out by lashing out at the guy for not doing things right in the household or in their kids education. The reality is, almost everybody can be a decent parent (not a superstar but decent), however not everybody can be decent programmer/surgeon or whatever. That's why nanny's, while expensive, still make far less than any occupation that requires a good amount of skills, studying and experience.

denise says

Marry someone who's your best friend, whose company you enjoy, who makes you laugh, whom you trust and care about. If you do, you will probably be happy.

Did you do that and followed your own advice?

'I Hate My Wife' @ The Experience Project.

http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Hate-My-Wife/409

for sure the rate of divorce amongst white middle class 'bobos in paradise' is FAR higher than 50%. I would estimate around 80-90%.

and yes getting married is all about the feels, isn't it? that's what women do, exploit your feels. Ever see a women 'fall in love' with a fat bald poor shlep- unless of course she has no other options. It's not random at all. Go look on OKCupid and all you warm and fuzzy ideas about love will dissipate quickly.

Family is a good idea. Most 'Bobo' women are entirely unsuitable for this purpose. American women are by far the worst, then comes British.

BRP001 says

Look at every statistic related to morality from 1960 forward. They all trend the same way – to a corrupt and valueless society.

what no one here has mentioned, is the LAST and perhaps final battle in this war- redefining marriage altogether!

still think Gay Marriage is really about the rights of Gay people?

as far aBRP001 says

Why is it that the only statistic that’s trending in a supposedly positive direction is the rise in power and wealth of women? Why is every other statistic trending rapidly and precariously in the wrong direction but that one? Hmmm – what’s that word I’m looking for???? I know it rhymes with Marxism, Stalinism, Socialism, and Communism…I think it maybe starts with an ‘F’.

here's a clue.

when the British wanted to take over the Aboriginal tribes of Australia, they decided that confronting them with military power would backfire on them politically, so they decided to destroy the tribes culturally.

how did they do this?

simple. The symbol of male power was the stone axe. so what they did was take manufactured metal axes and gave them to both the men and the women. It was not before long that the Abbo society completely broke down, and they took to drinking heavily as their primary occupation. Then the British took over their habitations claiming they were trying to 'help' with their problems by providing 'aid'.

New Renter, do you have XX chromosome or XY?

if they can ESTABLISH that these things are 'conditioning' then they can JUSTIFY altering them in an unnatural way.

what I cant comprehend is how men in places like America take these accusations, insinuations, defamations, and incitements sitting down. It has resulted in a practically unlivable conditions for us. We are threatened legally in 1) school 2) workplace 3) bedroom 4) family.

"What is too easy to forget is that this is artificial, and therefore requires constant effort to maintain. Feminism didn’t demolish a barrier between two seas and let the water levels adjust; it is a massive pumping operation. Turn off the pumps even for a little bit and reality will come flooding back."

“Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up with the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality. For women, "equality" is a disaster.”
Robert Heinlein

read this:

It doesnt get better with age

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-My-Wife/614507

denise says

Marry someone who's your best friend, whose company you enjoy, who makes you laugh, whom you trust and care about. If you do, you will probably be happy. If you don't, you screwed up, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

This is very true.

If marriage is the way then you should only marry your soulmate.

Marrying for lust is a recipe for disaster. Lust changes on a yearly or monthly basis. It will not end well.

For many people, serial monogamy will prove to be the best option.

If you just want to sleep with someone hot go get an FwB.

Peter P says

denise says

Marry someone who's your best friend, whose company you enjoy, who makes you laugh, whom you trust and care about. If you do, you will probably be happy. If you don't, you screwed up, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

This is very true.

If marriage is the way then you should only marry your soulmate.

Marrying for lust is a recipe for disaster. Lust changes on a yearly or monthly basis. It will not end well.

For many people, serial monogamy will prove to be the best option.

If you just want to sleep with someone hot go get an FwB.

Yeah, but the trick is to spot your soulmate(s). What about: don't get married, and if you make it until the end, then you were soulmates anyways (with or without marriage certificate)!

mell says

Yeah, but the trick is to spot your soulmate(s). What about: don't get married, and if you make it until the end, then you were soulmates anyways (with or without marriage certificate)!

That is a completely valid point!

Nietzsche on marriage:

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ipjp/article/viewFile/61115/49300.

I don't agree with the "baby" parts. But then I am no atheist either.

MershedPerturders says

New Renter, do you have XX chromosome or XY?

XY and I have the phenotype to prove it.

"He draws us back to first principles to look at why marriage existed in the first place: it was about what was good for the family and society. Ancient Greek marriages had solid foundations because they were rational business arrangements, roles were very clearly defined, couples could not get divorced, and love was not a factor in the decision."

in Ancient Greece, most MARRIED men engaged in homosexual love for fun and satisfaction.

"Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal." -Leo Tolstoy

New Renter says

MershedPerturders says

New Renter, do you have XX chromosome or XY?

XY and I have the phenotype to prove it.

Granted even among us ducks sit can be hard to tell.

Wow, I read some of those "I Hate My Wife" testimonies. Very sad. But you could probably read just the opposite "I Hate My Husband" because men do the same things:

Get fat, watch TV all weekend, don't bring home enough money, don't want sex. In fact, I have a girlfriend who divorced her husband for just those things. He's 300 pounds and watches TV from the time he gets home until 3:00 in the morning and never comes to bed, did very little work around the house, (she used to mow the lawn and take out the trash even!) she made more money than him. After 20 years of putting up with that she divorced him. In other words, it's not just the women who are lousy marriage partners.

I'm amazed nobody mentioned Kevin Federline.

Conversely, there was a movie about a tiny studio apartment in Manhattan time-shared by near-strangers, can't recall the title now. In real life, that apartment was reportedly home to a gay male couple who later got married, two kids.

One poster here described his bitter divorce and sounded like Paul from the NT comparing American values today to 1960. It sounded like the ex-wife was angry and said things to hurt him so he'd never trust again, and it worked. That has nothing to do with changing values or 1960, there have always been bad marriages and bitter break-ups. Second marriages after divorce represent the triumph of hope over experience, and some succeed very well. The NT and Catholic church prohibit them, but the government recognizes them, which is enough for most people. Not everybody gets it right on the first try, which is why pencils have erasers.

MsBennet says

After 20 years of putting up with that she divorced him. In other words, it's not just the women who are lousy marriage partners.

She made a bad bet.

MsBennet says

Wow, I read some of those "I Hate My Wife" testimonies. Very sad. But you could probably read just the opposite "I Hate My Husband" because men do the same things:

Get fat, watch TV all weekend, don't bring home enough money, don't want sex. In fact, I have a girlfriend who divorced her husband for just those things. He's 300 pounds and watches TV from the time he gets home until 3:00 in the morning and never comes to bed, did very little work around the house, (she used to mow the lawn and take out the trash even!) she made more money than him. After 20 years of putting up with that she divorced him. In other words, it's not just the women who are lousy marriage partners.

Nobody said that, but it's the women who usually pressure for marriage and who file for divorce.

and regaring the comments on 'men are bad partners too'... seems every negative attribution women just DEMAND total and absolute gender equivalence, and everything else they demand special treatment. IT's getting totally out of control. Women worldwide want American men due to their good attitudes towards family and marriage. They are the most ideal partners by worldwide standards.

I knew a guy who was married three times. That gives one pause, but he explained it once. The first was a back seat knock up, they should never have been married as teens. The second, the wife, who was agnostic, became metaphysical and religious to the extreme after a couple of years of marriage. She had groups of religious nutters over to the house speaking in tongues and holy rolling all the time. He walked in on her one day, she was on a step ladder, and one of the men in her congregation was under her with his head up her dress ministering to her private parts in a way that had nothing to do with religion. Chalk up divorce 2.

His third marriage was to a very nice gal and as far as I know has lasted a few decades.

"In a male-led society divorce is often single digits. in an "equal" or female led society, divorce is over 50% and one parent homes are even more common than that."

Female led society - now which would that be?

The US divorce rate is quite low among upper-middle class people, including dual career families. Divorce in this country is to a great degree a feature of social class.

New Renter says

New Renter says

MershedPerturders says

New Renter, do you have XX chromosome or XY?

XY and I have the phenotype to prove it.

Granted even among us ducks sit can be hard to tell.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/qwjEeI2SmiU

just_passing_through says

New Renter says

New Renter says

MershedPerturders says

New Renter, do you have XX chromosome or XY?

XY and I have the phenotype to prove it.

Granted even among us ducks sit can be hard to tell.

Did someone order a pizza?