patrick.net

Bap33 says

3000 babies murdered every day .... who's ready to make that harder to commit?

That could have been another 3000 worthless eaters for you to mow down with your AK47 when the SHTF. Thank us Liberals for saving you precious ammo.

marcus says

THen again, if you live in hillbilly territory, maybe it's as easy as walking
outside and talking to your neighbors.

a very good point. as I sat at coffee this moring, each of my fellow coffee drinkers agreed with me on the gun debate. We had 2 farmers, 2 construction workers, 2 small business guys, me (public worker of sorts), and 3 retired guys (1 air force, 1 dairy, 1 insurance broker). All have weapons, some have cc permits, 2 had their weapons on them. Of the 10 guys I am the youngest at 44. I would say they average 65. My views on here match my views in life (pretty much), and they all are more "right" than me, and some are more "libertarian" than even me. These guys are what I think the faberic of this nation is made of, not the left-leaning personas that we find on here and in most of the webonisphere. Just my gut feeling, when considering the personalities drawn to this form of communication.

But, marcus, as we both know, everything on here is just smoke. If we were sitting at the same cafe, we could have a good conversation and shake hands and both walk away knowing all we did was make ourselves feel better by having the chance to explain our reasons for our visions. And thats cool.

In the real world, I think things are FUBAR in Cal and in America. FUBAR. But, that is from my little spot in the valle de mexifornia. Someone in Provo may see things different.

Call it Crazy says

Kevin says

Oh please. The drug dealers kill each other over drugs. They don't give a shit about you or me.

and they certainly don't give a shit about any current gun or murder laws...

but we need MORE laws for them to ignore.... right....

Again, the belief that laws don't have any impact just isn't true. If you don't believe so, why not legalize murder?

Bap33 says

as I said, if it's about saving lives you would want to target the murder of 3000 aborted babies, and make it harder to do. And you don't. Are you an Obamabot?

You can't abort a baby, you can only abort a fetus. A fetus isn't a human being. A child in a school is.

Bap33 says

Only because they have no worries about food or warmth. If there is a hicup in the welfare money supply (either the direct line sent to their baby-mamas, or through their drug customers) then they will be interested in food and water and warmth. Your food, water, and warmth .. and little girls and wives. It aint 1985 anymore.

Oh, yeah, the drug dealers are getting all of their 'food and warmth' from tiny welfare checks and foodstamps. Not the billions of dollars per year that people spend on illegal drugs.

Bap33 says

These guys are what I think the faberic of this nation is made of, not the left-leaning personas that we find on here and in most of the webonisphere.

That's probably because you've never experienced the country outside of your corner of it.

Spend a little time actually living in a big city and you'll find it's not a scary or dangerous place, and that nobody is going to come kill you or your daughters.

Kevin says

You can't abort a baby, you can only abort a fetus. A fetus isn't a human
being. A child in a school is.

lol .. your libtardation is hindering you, big guy. Please, if you will, tell me how many children were never fetus'. And tell me what those fetus' are, if not just younger versions of humans? Ready, go!

Kevin says

Again, the belief that laws don't have any impact just isn't true

lmao .. so, the pro-dope-smokers that pushed through legal dope did so how/why again?.. umm, the big reason was "everyone does it and they are not hurting anyone!" .. but, wait, there was ALREADY A LAW AGAINST SMOKING DOPE ... and, yet, here we are. I know, I know, "deetedee", the common libtard repsonse.

Was there a law against smoking dope? Did it stop the scum that smoke dope from doing so?

Was there a law against male sodomite coupling? Did it stop it?

Is there a law against under age sex? Did it stop?

I have a few more, but those are kind of fun so we can start there.

Kevin says

Not the billions of dollars per year that people spend on illegal drugs.

Productive people are not the drug dealers main end user. Unproductive people are the majority drug user in America. Most people that access and use illegal drugs are also relying on some sort of public assistance, either directly or through an enabler (baby mama, mom, granny, family, sister, -- someone else on full blown aide). They may not rely on the cash, directly, but rely on the Section 8 housing, WIC food, EBT card, clothes, toliet paper, medicne, transportation, stuff that comes free and easy to them .. all of which will allow them to use whatever cash money they may get from fencing stolen property on Craigs list, or from their part-time job at the car wash, or painting curb numbers, or mowing yards - on drugs. All of it on drugs. In my opinion, if the free cash lever is removed then the drug dealers take a pay cut. Besides, my example is given in the light of a major issue making food scarce ... and if at that time you don't think it will be them taking your last (fill in blank) away from your dead body, you are nutso. It will not be an armed right winger, and you know it. When you go up to the ATM at night, you are not afraid that Hannity will come up behind you with his gun in his hand. As a matter of fact, you would feel better knowing an armed right-winger was near by if you had cause to be in a dark alley. Don't lie.

Bap33 says

dude, pay attention, the "illegal gun traffic" has a zero effect or value unless said weapon is used in a crime. Your knee is a bit wobbly?

So fucking what? Do you have a point, or do you just like to jabber about nothing?

lol .. you really should do that again, only use the whole quote with all of our commentary ... lol. And read them again, slooowly. lmao. Nice use of profanity, by the way. That REALLY drives home your oh-so-hard-to-fathom awesomness.

Bap33 says

Kevin says

You can't abort a baby, you can only abort a fetus. A fetus isn't a human

being. A child in a school is.

lol .. your libtardation is hindering you, big guy. Please, if you will, tell me how many children were never fetus'. And tell me what those fetus' are, if not just younger versions of humans? Ready, go!

A fetus is a precursor to mammalian life. It comes after an embryo and sperm, but before birth. Surely you paid attention in 5th grade sex ed classes?

All human children were once embryos, sperm and eggs, proteins and lipids, minerals and amino acids, free molecules, and energy.

Now, to restate: A fetus isn't a human being. I'll grant that it's not "nothing", and is a more important life form than a non-sentient animal (being the precursor to a human being), but it isn't the same thing as a living human child.

I don't necessarily draw the line of "life" at birth like some people -- I just don't believe that a fetus that is not fully developed is a human life any more than a sperm cell is.

Bap33 says

lmao .. so, the pro-dope-smokers that pushed through legal dope did so how/why again?.. umm, the big reason was "everyone does it and they are not hurting anyone!" .. but, wait, there was ALREADY A LAW AGAINST SMOKING DOPE ... and, yet, here we are. I know, I know, "deetedee", the common libtard repsonse.

Ending prohibition is about the negative consequences of prohibition, not about changing rates of use.

And, yes, the "pro dope smokers" don't believe that they're hurting anyone, because they aren't. Prohibition was stupid legislation brought about by a gross misunderstanding of substance abuse founded in belief rather than science.

Bap33 says

Was there a law against smoking dope? Did it stop the scum that smoke dope from doing so?

Yes, indeed it did. It stopped plenty of non-scum from doing so as well.

Ah, I forgot, you're one of those stupid fucking morons who thinks that a law is ineffective unless it completely eliminates some bad behavior.

So, once again, with emphasis:

NO LAW CAN COMPLETELY PREVENT SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT A LAW IS INEFFECTIVE IF IT PREVENTS SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING 100% OF THE TIME, YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON.

Bap33 says

Productive people are not the drug dealers main end user. Unproductive people are the majority drug user in America. Most people that access and use illegal drugs are also relying on some sort of public assistance, either directly or through an enabler (baby mama, mom, granny, family, sister, -- someone else on full blown aide).

[citation needed]

The language you're choosing to use pretty much says everything about your whole stance on this. I get it: You don't like poor (black) people. Why not just say that instead of coming up with all of these indirect ways to say it?

Bap33 says

They may not rely on the cash, directly, but rely on the Section 8 housing, WIC food, EBT card, clothes, toliet paper, medicne, transportation, stuff that comes free and easy to them .. all of which will allow them to use whatever cash money they may get from fencing stolen property on Craigs list, or from their part-time job at the car wash, or painting curb numbers, or mowing yards - on drugs. All of it on drugs.

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

The most commonly abused substance amongst poor people is one that is widely legally available at most convenience stores. We tried to ban it once, and while abuse rates went down, the negative consequences were horrifying.

Bap33 says

In my opinion, if the free cash lever is removed then the drug dealers take a pay cut. Besides, my example is given in the light of a major issue making food scarce ... and if at that time you don't think it will be them taking your last (fill in blank) away from your dead body, you are nutso.

I'm not "nutso", I'm just not afraid of AM radio boogeymen.

Bap33 says

When you go up to the ATM at night, you are not afraid that Hannity will come up behind you with his gun in his hand. As a matter of fact, you would feel better knowing an armed right-winger was near by if you had cause to be in a dark alley. Don't lie.

On the rare occasions that I visit an ATM (people who live in places that matter don't use cash, silly man), I'm not afraid of anybody coming up behind me.

Things are pretty well lit in seattle, so we don't have a lot of dark alleys, but I definitely walk down alleys at night on a regular basis, and I've never once felt unsafe. I've had a few awkward encounters with drunk vagrants, but they're relatively harmless.

Now, out in the middle of nowhere, though? I've definitely felt unsafe. Driving through the texas panhandle and having to stop at some backwater filing station? Oh yeah. It's like deliverance in there.

Bap33 says

lol .. you really should do that again, only use the whole quote with all of our commentary ... lol. And read them again, slooowly. lmao. Nice use of profanity, by the way. That REALLY drives home your oh-so-hard-to-fathom awesomness.

So then you don't have a point. Just as I thought. It'd be nice if you stopped vomiting random words into this thread.

Kevin says

I just don't believe that a fetus that is not fully developed is a human life
any more than a sperm cell is.

not a human life?? it is life, and it is made from humans and it is required to create more humans, but you say it is not human life? A sperm cell does not split. Life is splitting cells. A fetus is life. A human fetus is human life. Going backwards in time from your age now, tell me when it is that you stop being a human life.

Abortion is murder of a baby. Fact.
3000 times every day in America. Fact.

Kevin says

NO LAW CAN COMPLETELY PREVENT SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING.

hmmmm ... wait, when did you jump over to my side?

Homeboy says

Bap33 says

lol .. you really should do that again, only use the whole quote with all of our commentary ... lol. And read them again, slooowly. lmao. Nice use of profanity, by the way. That REALLY drives home your oh-so-hard-to-fathom awesomness.

So then you don't have a point. Just as I thought. It'd be nice if you stopped vomiting random words into this thread.

lol .. go play. Nobody can force you to read, nor understand what you read, so you are free to go play. Adios.

Kevin says

I'm not "nutso", I'm just not afraid of AM radio boogeymen.

but you fear an armed white conservative Christian because Rosie O and Lord Barry said you should?

Call it Crazy says

Homeboy says

By the way, to answer your non-sequitur, Call It Quits, the murder rate is way down in California, so apparently gun control laws DO work.

Any chance murder rates are down in CA because more people are armed, which eliminates violent crime and attacks??

There are more firearms in the hands of CA residents in 2012 but murders are down...... how could that be if more "guns kill more people"??

*

Over a million more background checks in 2012 which means more firearms were purchased in 2012, but murders are down...

How do you explain that Einstein??

awesome

Bap33 says

lol .. go play. Nobody can force you to read, nor understand what you read, so you are free to go play. Adios.

So then you still don't have a point, I see.

Call it Crazy says

There are more firearms in the hands of CA residents in 2012 but murders are down...... how could that be if more "guns kill more people"??

Um, no there aren't. As Kevin said, gun ownership rate is down. Also, sales are down:

Were there more guns sold in 1989 or after 2000? Hope that question isn't too tough for you.

Bap33 says

not a human life?? it is life, and it is made from humans and it is required to create more humans, but you say it is not human life? A sperm cell does not split. Life is splitting cells. A fetus is life. A human fetus is human life. Going backwards in time from your age now, tell me when it is that you stop being a human life.

Cancer is also "human life". So is literally every part of my body by this logic.

No, a fetus is not a human life.

I became a human life when I could viably survive outside of my mother's womb. Since it's hard to definitely draw a line for when that occurred, I'm just going to say it was when my mother pushed me out of her vagina.

Bap33 says

Abortion is murder of a baby. Fact.

Opinion, actually, and one that the Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with.

Bap33 says

hmmmm ... wait, when did you jump over to my side?

Never, but you don't seem to grasp any point being made. I don't know why I bother with you.

Bap33 says

but you fear an armed white conservative Christian because Rosie O and Lord Barry said you should?

I don't know who Rosie O is. I assume you're talking about President Obama with "Lord Barry". I've never spoken with either of these people so I don't see how they could have told me anything.

But, no, I'm not really afraid of anybody. I don't know why you got that impression.

Homeboy says

Um, no there aren't. As Kevin said, gun ownership rate is down. Also, sales are down:

To be fair (and I'm not sure why I should be), he argued about an increase in sales in 2012. There was a slight increase, it's true, because of fear mongering dipshits telling everybody that Obama was going to take away all of their guns.

He's ignored every other year where gun ownership was higher and murders were higher, since there's one data point that vaguely supports his religious belief. You won't get anywhere arguing with him.

Kevin says

I became a human life when I could viably survive outside of my mother's womb.

whoa whoa whoa ... so you suggest we abandon every special needs kid, and every invalid adult that suffers from stroke, or MS .... wow .. do you realize Dr. Hawking has never been able to be human in your view? Amazing. Truly amazing. Your view cant possibly be correct. You do realize that, dont you?

Cancer is a cellular creation, no doubt. And there are new forms of life created by mutated cells. No doubt. Cancer is not human life, it is a mutation of a cell. Now, when you have a HEALTHY male sperm cell (a lone, single, only live once, never splits, cell) introduced to a female egg cell (a lone, sinlge, only live onve, never splits, cell) the two blend, join, merge, gell, and - almost like magic - become a NEW cell that is a singular, lone, individual, (not independant, but unique) cell -- and inside that very first cell is the entire DNA and instructions for each and every cell that has yet to be created by the SPLITTING of this very first cell ... and it splits, each cell matching itself the EXACT same numbers of times before a new form of matter is created. The cell that splits to make the eye splits exactly the same number of times as the cell that splits to make the knuckle in the right big toe. Now, when does the mass of billions of splitting cells seperate from being eye to being big toe? Never? But, it happens, obviously. Your eye and your big toe came from the same split cell. And at the very instant the first cell was created the size and color of your eye, and the location and size of your big toe were programed into the dell created by the sperm and the egg. If you can make me believe that at some point in time, that set of splitting cells had no idea what they were to create, and how many times to split before starting the next creation of matter, then maybe you will have a point. But, from my understanding of things, there is only one possible healthy life form that can come from the meeting of the sperm cell and the egg cell. Only one. It seems the cells are smart enough to know there is a human getting built by their efforts, but a few humans dont crasp it.

Bap33 says

Abortion is murder of a baby. Fact.

Actually there is no agreement on that which is why we have choice.

But nobody is pro abortion. SOme of us are pro choice.

sarcasm font on.

Isn't male masturbation murder too, at least for those of us who have ever masturbated when there was a woman willing to have unprotected sex with us ?

Why draw the line of potential life at the fertalization of the egg?

If I were single, and noticed an attractive female, that would have been willing to have unprotected sex with me, and to give birth to the reulting child,...

is it murder for me to not go ahead and get it on with her ?

( i am serious - obviously not as bad as abortion - but still murder right?)

Kevin says

Never, but you don't seem to grasp any point being made. I don't know why I
bother with you.

you said, in big bold letters, that expecting a law to do anythng is stupid (I paraphrase this time, but quoted above)
That is what I'm saying too.

We have laws against murder .... but the punisment is too passive. Start making murder very unpopular and sane criminal minded people will avoid it. Insane maniacs may not avoid commiting murder, and should be removed from earth asap.

A law against you owning any weapon that Lord Barry arms his Army with is wrong. Not balistics, not machines, but personally carried weapons and their full arrey of ammo. If they have a 50 cal machine gun, you should be able to have one too. If they have hand held anti-air rockets, you should be able to own them too. If you murder (murder 1) someone with those wepaons, or with your bare hands, then you should suffer the fate I detailed above.

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

Bap33 says

If they have a 50 cal machine gun, you should be able to have one too. If they have hand held anti-air rockets, you should be able to own them too.

Really ?

IS it the hate radio or or fox or perhaps the fundamentalist types you hang out with?

Maybe it's all of the above combined with "Lord Barry's" reelection that has caused you to become so unhinged at this point.

marcus says

Isn't male masturbation murder too, at least for those of us who have ever
masturbated when there was a woman willing to have unprotected sex with us ?

I don't think so. The sperm has a short life span, and never splits. Millions and billions of sperm are created and die and are flushed from your body through the waste system. So, if you pass a few through nocturnal emmisions, or through manual flogging, you are not stopping the splitting of a healthy human cell, or the beating of a health human heart - in the way abortion does. In my opinion.

I do know the Catholic Church has an issue with tossed seed, and it is kinda suggested to not abuse your body in the manner in the Bible ... I would imagine that is because of the way it makes you fixate on naughty things like the cleavage of the lady in the tent next door ... and sin could take place if you dwell on such things ... maybe that is their point? Not sure. I know that in todays productivly driven families the young are repressed well into their sexual maturity, and that has things kinda twisted. They are put on the pill to avoid getting prego so they can go to college and earn degrees, and when they do finally begin to reproduce it is 1 or 2 kids and they come at age 30ish. On the other hand is a non-productive driven culture that turns their girls out at 15 and they start breeding right away. They have 3 or 4 kids before they are 25. So the population shift (say, since Prop 187 was illegally stopped by a liberal court) has been dramatic due to these cultural differences. Not sure why I went into this ... I'm rambling? lol

I humbly suggest that the only young men that never abuse their bodies are those who were born without arms, and couldn't find an object to rub against in private that accomplished the task. If a teenaged fellow leaves it alone, he will wake up with a mess once a week anyways, so planned events make for less mess. I'm not sure this is backed by any religious belief, but they may have left that part out in Canon ... like they did with the book of Enoch.

Ahh, I just murdered 40-600 million potential babies.

Moderate Infidel says

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

First - every drug user should be made infertile.
Second - every welfare taker - all forms of welfare - should be made to give up their right to vote for the entire 12 months of any year they are on aide, and females should have implanted contriception that stays in place until a full year after the last time they accept aide.
And then what you suggest is a good idea. Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Bap33 says

I don't think so. The sperm has a short life span, and never splits. Millions and billions of sperm are created and die and are flushed from your body through the waste system. So, if you pass a few through nocturnal emmisions, or through manual flogging, you are not stopping the splitting of a healthy human cell, or the beating of a health human heart - in the way abortion does. In my opinion.

You totally missed the question.

I didn't say is masturbation murder.

I said, is it murder to masturbate when there is a woman willing to have a child with you ?

marcus says

Maybe it's all of the above combined with "Lord Barry's" reelection that has
caused you to become so unhinged at this point.

nah, I'm cool. I just get a little bugged when I see America getting twisted into dog shit by the progressive movement. Lord BArry has no respect for America, and he is counting on the scum of this country to be just ignorant enough to not learn about how things are supposed to be in a land of liberty. Maybe. I dunno. But, fear not, I'm cool. Like you, I know what is to come and why, and how this all goes away. Right?

marcus says

Bap33 says

I don't think so. The sperm has a short life span, and never splits. Millions and billions of sperm are created and die and are flushed from your body through the waste system. So, if you pass a few through nocturnal emmisions, or through manual flogging, you are not stopping the splitting of a healthy human cell, or the beating of a health human heart - in the way abortion does. In my opinion.

You totally missed the question.

I didn't say is masturbation murder.

I said, is it murder to masturbate when there is a woman willing to have a child with you ?

I did miss the question, sorry. My answer is no. Ugly fat chicks would have way to much power otherwise.

Bap33 says

Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Prove it.

The christian part. I couldn't find any statistics.

Speaking of "program" - that is what conservative christians do to their kids.

Bap33 says

Lord BArry has no respect for America, and he is counting on the scum of this country to be just ignorant enough to not learn about how things are supposed to be in a land of liberty.

Right....

OBama is probably the most moderate to right wing democratic President we have ever seen. He's a pragmatist.

But he is dealing with a very messed up time, and some truly retarded right wingers in congress who have destroyed the republican party.

You can't see how far we have swung to the right. There aren't that many true "liberals" in the government any more. Democrats are mostly moderate, and only relatively liberal compared to the far right that dominates the republicans.

ROnald Reagan is a liberal in this world. Btw, he got behind an assault weapons ban.

YOu would be able to see this if it weren't how vulnerable all your fundy friends are to the right wing entertainment complex.

If there was ever a woman willing to have unprotected sex with you, and you instead chose to masturbate, I don't think that act should be called murder. I would however call it stupid and pretty friggin lame.

Kind of like the posts I just read in this thread. It does go to show, that wholly stupid and misinformed opinions don't discriminate from the far left or the far right, as proven by the exchange between kevin and bap, two seemingly otherwise intelligent beings, whose minds have been infiltrated by the asinine political bent of their choosing. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure reads sad

I have to admit, that starting with the "moral majority" of the 80s, all the way to now when Fox et als appeal to fundamentalists Christians, this was a brilliant way for the right wing to gain and maintain power.

If you convince people that your party has the moral high ground, then there is all kinds of stupidity they will tolerate or overlook.

By the way, this is tied to the answer to this question.

Ironically, while bringing fundamentalists in to the republican tent brought them power, and certainly a few Presidents, it is turning out to be their undoing, if things continue as they have recently.

Bap's sad interpretation of this phenomenon:

Bap33 says

Lord BArry has no respect for America, and he is counting on the scum of this country to be just ignorant enough to not learn about how things are supposed to be in a land of liberty.

Bap33 says

Moderate Infidel says

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

First - every drug user should be made infertile.

Second - every welfare taker - all forms of welfare - should be made to give up their right to vote for the entire 12 months of any year they are on aide, and females should have implanted contriception that stays in place until a full year after the last time they accept aide.

And then what you suggest is a good idea. Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Define drug
Define welfare

Drug - Viagra
Welfare - Oligarchy

marcus says

Democrats are mostly moderate, and only relatively liberal compared to the
far right that dominates the republicans.

I disagree. Kennedy was a good Democrat. Reagan was a good Republican. The two were pretty close is view and actionm would you agree?

Todays GOP is full of RINO pukes that are career political hacks and are not any more conservative than Mike Moore. If the GOP does get razed, it will be to the good of the conservative voice in this nation. There is no room for conservatives in todays GOP.

Lord Barry is a wolf in wolf's clothing. His Chicago mob is using the law of the jungle and bully tactics, and avoiding all forms of legality. To anyone not blinded by the a haze of dope and/or perversion fueled liberalism, it is obvious.

errc says

Define drug
Define welfare

sorry, illegal drug, including recreational MJ.

welfare - Unearned access to goods, services, and/or cash - by action of forced wealth transfer between citizens - under threat of law by Gov. That pretty much sums it up.

Bap33 says

Moderate Infidel says

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

First - every drug user should be made infertile.

Second - every welfare taker - all forms of welfare - should be made to give up their right to vote for the entire 12 months of any year they are on aide, and females should have implanted contriception that stays in place until a full year after the last time they accept aide.

And then what you suggest is a good idea. Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

And ignorant mouth breathers should be put in death camps.

Bap33 says

Kennedy was a good Democrat. Reagan was a good Republican.

Saying this, and then what follows in your same comment only proves how incredibly vulnerable you are to propaganda.

Bap33 says

Todays GOP is full of RINO pukes that are career political hacks and are not any more conservative than Mike Moore. If the GOP does get razed, it will be to the good of the conservative voice in this nation. There is no room for conservatives in todays GOP.

Lord Barry is a wolf in wolf's clothing. His Chicago mob is using the law of the jungle and bully tactics, and avoiding all forms of legality. To anyone not blinded by the a haze of dope and/or perversion fueled liberalism, it is obvious.

Btw,..

Bap33 says

avoiding all forms of legality

Does the term "Iran - Contra affair" mean anything to you?