patrick.net

Call it Crazy says

There are more firearms in the hands of CA residents in 2012 but murders are down...... how could that be if more "guns kill more people"??

Um, no there aren't. As Kevin said, gun ownership rate is down. Also, sales are down:

Were there more guns sold in 1989 or after 2000? Hope that question isn't too tough for you.

Bap33 says

not a human life?? it is life, and it is made from humans and it is required to create more humans, but you say it is not human life? A sperm cell does not split. Life is splitting cells. A fetus is life. A human fetus is human life. Going backwards in time from your age now, tell me when it is that you stop being a human life.

Cancer is also "human life". So is literally every part of my body by this logic.

No, a fetus is not a human life.

I became a human life when I could viably survive outside of my mother's womb. Since it's hard to definitely draw a line for when that occurred, I'm just going to say it was when my mother pushed me out of her vagina.

Bap33 says

Abortion is murder of a baby. Fact.

Opinion, actually, and one that the Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with.

Bap33 says

hmmmm ... wait, when did you jump over to my side?

Never, but you don't seem to grasp any point being made. I don't know why I bother with you.

Bap33 says

but you fear an armed white conservative Christian because Rosie O and Lord Barry said you should?

I don't know who Rosie O is. I assume you're talking about President Obama with "Lord Barry". I've never spoken with either of these people so I don't see how they could have told me anything.

But, no, I'm not really afraid of anybody. I don't know why you got that impression.

Homeboy says

Um, no there aren't. As Kevin said, gun ownership rate is down. Also, sales are down:

To be fair (and I'm not sure why I should be), he argued about an increase in sales in 2012. There was a slight increase, it's true, because of fear mongering dipshits telling everybody that Obama was going to take away all of their guns.

He's ignored every other year where gun ownership was higher and murders were higher, since there's one data point that vaguely supports his religious belief. You won't get anywhere arguing with him.

Kevin says

I became a human life when I could viably survive outside of my mother's womb.

whoa whoa whoa ... so you suggest we abandon every special needs kid, and every invalid adult that suffers from stroke, or MS .... wow .. do you realize Dr. Hawking has never been able to be human in your view? Amazing. Truly amazing. Your view cant possibly be correct. You do realize that, dont you?

Cancer is a cellular creation, no doubt. And there are new forms of life created by mutated cells. No doubt. Cancer is not human life, it is a mutation of a cell. Now, when you have a HEALTHY male sperm cell (a lone, single, only live once, never splits, cell) introduced to a female egg cell (a lone, sinlge, only live onve, never splits, cell) the two blend, join, merge, gell, and - almost like magic - become a NEW cell that is a singular, lone, individual, (not independant, but unique) cell -- and inside that very first cell is the entire DNA and instructions for each and every cell that has yet to be created by the SPLITTING of this very first cell ... and it splits, each cell matching itself the EXACT same numbers of times before a new form of matter is created. The cell that splits to make the eye splits exactly the same number of times as the cell that splits to make the knuckle in the right big toe. Now, when does the mass of billions of splitting cells seperate from being eye to being big toe? Never? But, it happens, obviously. Your eye and your big toe came from the same split cell. And at the very instant the first cell was created the size and color of your eye, and the location and size of your big toe were programed into the dell created by the sperm and the egg. If you can make me believe that at some point in time, that set of splitting cells had no idea what they were to create, and how many times to split before starting the next creation of matter, then maybe you will have a point. But, from my understanding of things, there is only one possible healthy life form that can come from the meeting of the sperm cell and the egg cell. Only one. It seems the cells are smart enough to know there is a human getting built by their efforts, but a few humans dont crasp it.

Bap33 says

Abortion is murder of a baby. Fact.

Actually there is no agreement on that which is why we have choice.

But nobody is pro abortion. SOme of us are pro choice.

sarcasm font on.

Isn't male masturbation murder too, at least for those of us who have ever masturbated when there was a woman willing to have unprotected sex with us ?

Why draw the line of potential life at the fertalization of the egg?

If I were single, and noticed an attractive female, that would have been willing to have unprotected sex with me, and to give birth to the reulting child,...

is it murder for me to not go ahead and get it on with her ?

( i am serious - obviously not as bad as abortion - but still murder right?)

Kevin says

Never, but you don't seem to grasp any point being made. I don't know why I
bother with you.

you said, in big bold letters, that expecting a law to do anythng is stupid (I paraphrase this time, but quoted above)
That is what I'm saying too.

We have laws against murder .... but the punisment is too passive. Start making murder very unpopular and sane criminal minded people will avoid it. Insane maniacs may not avoid commiting murder, and should be removed from earth asap.

A law against you owning any weapon that Lord Barry arms his Army with is wrong. Not balistics, not machines, but personally carried weapons and their full arrey of ammo. If they have a 50 cal machine gun, you should be able to have one too. If they have hand held anti-air rockets, you should be able to own them too. If you murder (murder 1) someone with those wepaons, or with your bare hands, then you should suffer the fate I detailed above.

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

Bap33 says

If they have a 50 cal machine gun, you should be able to have one too. If they have hand held anti-air rockets, you should be able to own them too.

Really ?

IS it the hate radio or or fox or perhaps the fundamentalist types you hang out with?

Maybe it's all of the above combined with "Lord Barry's" reelection that has caused you to become so unhinged at this point.

marcus says

Isn't male masturbation murder too, at least for those of us who have ever
masturbated when there was a woman willing to have unprotected sex with us ?

I don't think so. The sperm has a short life span, and never splits. Millions and billions of sperm are created and die and are flushed from your body through the waste system. So, if you pass a few through nocturnal emmisions, or through manual flogging, you are not stopping the splitting of a healthy human cell, or the beating of a health human heart - in the way abortion does. In my opinion.

I do know the Catholic Church has an issue with tossed seed, and it is kinda suggested to not abuse your body in the manner in the Bible ... I would imagine that is because of the way it makes you fixate on naughty things like the cleavage of the lady in the tent next door ... and sin could take place if you dwell on such things ... maybe that is their point? Not sure. I know that in todays productivly driven families the young are repressed well into their sexual maturity, and that has things kinda twisted. They are put on the pill to avoid getting prego so they can go to college and earn degrees, and when they do finally begin to reproduce it is 1 or 2 kids and they come at age 30ish. On the other hand is a non-productive driven culture that turns their girls out at 15 and they start breeding right away. They have 3 or 4 kids before they are 25. So the population shift (say, since Prop 187 was illegally stopped by a liberal court) has been dramatic due to these cultural differences. Not sure why I went into this ... I'm rambling? lol

I humbly suggest that the only young men that never abuse their bodies are those who were born without arms, and couldn't find an object to rub against in private that accomplished the task. If a teenaged fellow leaves it alone, he will wake up with a mess once a week anyways, so planned events make for less mess. I'm not sure this is backed by any religious belief, but they may have left that part out in Canon ... like they did with the book of Enoch.

Ahh, I just murdered 40-600 million potential babies.

Moderate Infidel says

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

First - every drug user should be made infertile.
Second - every welfare taker - all forms of welfare - should be made to give up their right to vote for the entire 12 months of any year they are on aide, and females should have implanted contriception that stays in place until a full year after the last time they accept aide.
And then what you suggest is a good idea. Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Bap33 says

I don't think so. The sperm has a short life span, and never splits. Millions and billions of sperm are created and die and are flushed from your body through the waste system. So, if you pass a few through nocturnal emmisions, or through manual flogging, you are not stopping the splitting of a healthy human cell, or the beating of a health human heart - in the way abortion does. In my opinion.

You totally missed the question.

I didn't say is masturbation murder.

I said, is it murder to masturbate when there is a woman willing to have a child with you ?

marcus says

Maybe it's all of the above combined with "Lord Barry's" reelection that has
caused you to become so unhinged at this point.

nah, I'm cool. I just get a little bugged when I see America getting twisted into dog shit by the progressive movement. Lord BArry has no respect for America, and he is counting on the scum of this country to be just ignorant enough to not learn about how things are supposed to be in a land of liberty. Maybe. I dunno. But, fear not, I'm cool. Like you, I know what is to come and why, and how this all goes away. Right?

marcus says

Bap33 says

I don't think so. The sperm has a short life span, and never splits. Millions and billions of sperm are created and die and are flushed from your body through the waste system. So, if you pass a few through nocturnal emmisions, or through manual flogging, you are not stopping the splitting of a healthy human cell, or the beating of a health human heart - in the way abortion does. In my opinion.

You totally missed the question.

I didn't say is masturbation murder.

I said, is it murder to masturbate when there is a woman willing to have a child with you ?

I did miss the question, sorry. My answer is no. Ugly fat chicks would have way to much power otherwise.

Bap33 says

Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Prove it.

The christian part. I couldn't find any statistics.

Speaking of "program" - that is what conservative christians do to their kids.

Bap33 says

Lord BArry has no respect for America, and he is counting on the scum of this country to be just ignorant enough to not learn about how things are supposed to be in a land of liberty.

Right....

OBama is probably the most moderate to right wing democratic President we have ever seen. He's a pragmatist.

But he is dealing with a very messed up time, and some truly retarded right wingers in congress who have destroyed the republican party.

You can't see how far we have swung to the right. There aren't that many true "liberals" in the government any more. Democrats are mostly moderate, and only relatively liberal compared to the far right that dominates the republicans.

ROnald Reagan is a liberal in this world. Btw, he got behind an assault weapons ban.

YOu would be able to see this if it weren't how vulnerable all your fundy friends are to the right wing entertainment complex.

If there was ever a woman willing to have unprotected sex with you, and you instead chose to masturbate, I don't think that act should be called murder. I would however call it stupid and pretty friggin lame.

Kind of like the posts I just read in this thread. It does go to show, that wholly stupid and misinformed opinions don't discriminate from the far left or the far right, as proven by the exchange between kevin and bap, two seemingly otherwise intelligent beings, whose minds have been infiltrated by the asinine political bent of their choosing. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure reads sad

I have to admit, that starting with the "moral majority" of the 80s, all the way to now when Fox et als appeal to fundamentalists Christians, this was a brilliant way for the right wing to gain and maintain power.

If you convince people that your party has the moral high ground, then there is all kinds of stupidity they will tolerate or overlook.

By the way, this is tied to the answer to this question.

Ironically, while bringing fundamentalists in to the republican tent brought them power, and certainly a few Presidents, it is turning out to be their undoing, if things continue as they have recently.

Bap's sad interpretation of this phenomenon:

Bap33 says

Lord BArry has no respect for America, and he is counting on the scum of this country to be just ignorant enough to not learn about how things are supposed to be in a land of liberty.

Bap33 says

Moderate Infidel says

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

First - every drug user should be made infertile.

Second - every welfare taker - all forms of welfare - should be made to give up their right to vote for the entire 12 months of any year they are on aide, and females should have implanted contriception that stays in place until a full year after the last time they accept aide.

And then what you suggest is a good idea. Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Define drug
Define welfare

Drug - Viagra
Welfare - Oligarchy

marcus says

Democrats are mostly moderate, and only relatively liberal compared to the
far right that dominates the republicans.

I disagree. Kennedy was a good Democrat. Reagan was a good Republican. The two were pretty close is view and actionm would you agree?

Todays GOP is full of RINO pukes that are career political hacks and are not any more conservative than Mike Moore. If the GOP does get razed, it will be to the good of the conservative voice in this nation. There is no room for conservatives in todays GOP.

Lord Barry is a wolf in wolf's clothing. His Chicago mob is using the law of the jungle and bully tactics, and avoiding all forms of legality. To anyone not blinded by the a haze of dope and/or perversion fueled liberalism, it is obvious.

errc says

Define drug
Define welfare

sorry, illegal drug, including recreational MJ.

welfare - Unearned access to goods, services, and/or cash - by action of forced wealth transfer between citizens - under threat of law by Gov. That pretty much sums it up.

Bap33 says

Moderate Infidel says

Every fat middle age white male who rants about abortion should be forced to adopt a little crack baby.

First - every drug user should be made infertile.

Second - every welfare taker - all forms of welfare - should be made to give up their right to vote for the entire 12 months of any year they are on aide, and females should have implanted contriception that stays in place until a full year after the last time they accept aide.

And then what you suggest is a good idea. Ofcourse you must realize that it is white conservative Christians that do the majority of adoption, right? Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

And ignorant mouth breathers should be put in death camps.

Bap33 says

Kennedy was a good Democrat. Reagan was a good Republican.

Saying this, and then what follows in your same comment only proves how incredibly vulnerable you are to propaganda.

Bap33 says

Todays GOP is full of RINO pukes that are career political hacks and are not any more conservative than Mike Moore. If the GOP does get razed, it will be to the good of the conservative voice in this nation. There is no room for conservatives in todays GOP.

Lord Barry is a wolf in wolf's clothing. His Chicago mob is using the law of the jungle and bully tactics, and avoiding all forms of legality. To anyone not blinded by the a haze of dope and/or perversion fueled liberalism, it is obvious.

Btw,..

Bap33 says

avoiding all forms of legality

Does the term "Iran - Contra affair" mean anything to you?

Bap33 says

Liberals only take in foster kids so they can access some free money from "program" kids. Adoption costs people money, not like foster progams. I bet you knew that.

Wow.

First off, I'm betting that those who take in foster kids are just about as likely to be conservative as liberal

But here's my main point.

Foster kids are usually older kids that are either too old for adoption (adopting parents strongly prefer to adopt infants), or in many cases their status is unclear. Such as father dies, mother is in rehab. In other words, it is sometimes a possibly temporary situation.

I bet you didn't know that.

The fact that some money is sometimes available to go with a foster child, might help some low income people to become foster parents, but it takes a worse than cynical mind to see it as usually being the primary motive.

Call it Crazy says

It's really too bad you have such reading comprehension problems...

The FBI chart I posted showed that there were over 1 million background checks in 2012, which means more guns were sold in 2012 on top of what was already in possession.

Listen, dipshit - when you use the word "more", it must be in comparison to something. To simply say "more guns were sold in 2012" makes no sense. More than WHAT? I posted actual data of gun sales over time, and you can clearly see that gun sales are lower than they were in the past.

Now I'll type this slow for you to see if you can keep up...

You type slow because you ARE slow.

So this contradicts the mantra that more guns equals more murders, because the murder rate went down in CA while gun purchases and the total amount of guns went up.

I hope I didn't type too fast for you to understand that point.

You can keep saying that as many times as you like; it doesn't make it true.

Besides which, the only number which is meaningful in analyzing the murder rate vs. how many guns are owned, is the OWNERSHIP rate. And the ownership rate is down.

Don't try to argue with him. He doesn't understand per capita measurements, and believes that once something is purchased it never changes hands. You're arguing with a brick wall.

Call it Crazy says

I guess the next thing you'll start spouting is that the FBI data is made up or not correct, right??

No, just that it's national data. Did you forget already that you were arguing about California? Not only do you cherry-pick all your data; you use data that is irrelevant to what you're talking about.

By the way, if you actually look at the data for California background checks OVER TIME, which you neglected to do, you see that the number of background checks was LOWER every year after 1999. The only 2 years it was higher were 2011 and 2012. Yet the murder rate fell considerably after peaking in 1993. The correlation you are claiming simply does not exist.

You really have no idea what's going on, do you?

marcus says

The fact that some money is sometimes available to go with a foster child,
might help some low income people to become foster parents, but it takes a worse
than cynical mind to see it as usually being the primary motive.

maybe ... or it takes real life experience. For me, it's the latter, with just a touch of the former, I am sure.

marcus says

Does the term "Iran - Contra affair" mean anything to you?

yes. I am an Ollie North fan. How would you like to compair that to the guns for mexican drug gangs?

marcus says

Saying this, and then what follows in your same comment only proves how
incredibly vulnerable you are to propaganda.

of vise versa with respect to your position, no?

edit - changed witch to with

marcus says

ROnald Reagan is a liberal in this world. Btw, he got behind an assault weapons ban.

Assault weapons are banned.. and have been banned for many many years...

.. a assault weapon is a full automatic not semi automatic weapon.
Else you would also include a Winchester in your definition.

Bap33 says

of vise versa witch respect to your position, no?

I guess in this day and age, with Fox news and MSNBC it's just totally impossible to know.

(sarcasm - I think it's possible to know)

no, you think that the leftist liberal mind is superior and in assention, where as the righty conservative mind is neanderthalistic, so the leftist mind is beyond manipulation. That is close to what you think, I think.

Bap33 says

That is close to what you think, I think

No. I have my biases.

What I think is that reality has a liberal bias. (if we use your perception of liberal)

By the way, I consider myself to be a true conservative.

Are you a conservative with respect to the Constitution of the USA, state rights, and individual liberty? If so, then we are on the same team for the most part, with my caveman nature being your only obstical. We can get past that!

I am a conservative regarding those things. I am also a conservative with regard to seeing AMerica as a melting pot, and embracing diversity as the positive that it has always been.

Also a conservative with respect to what I see as best for America economically, which is definitely not taking us back to the guilded age.

I see things like social safety nets and universal health care as steps towards being what every decent country will obviously eventually be.

Oppression and exploitation of the poor masses is not what I worry about preserving in America.

I view Eisenhower as a great American conservative. If he could see America now, he would be bothered by an entitely differnt set of issues than you are. He was FAR to the left of Obama. (using your definition of left).

He was a great republican (but to the left of what you call rhinos).

Here's one quote:

I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center.

another...

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/dwight_d_eisenhower.html#2tOXabTMpdgYzRwp.99

marcus says

I see things like social safety nets and universal health care as steps towards being what every decent country will obviously eventually be.

I support social safety nets and universal healthcare. However, they must be made available to people of all economic backgrounds alike.

If welfare is provided only to the poor, you create a chasm between classes. People need to know that the net will be there even if they work harder.

marcus says

Oppression and exploitation of the poor masses is not what I worry about preserving in America.

What you see as "oppression" and "exploitation" may actually be the real nature of human society. Equality is an illusion. Some people are always more equal than others.

The hierarchy will be here to stay.

errc says

If there was ever a woman willing to have unprotected sex with you, and you instead chose to masturbate, I don't think that act should be called murder. I would however call it stupid and pretty friggin lame.

What about STDs?

And you know what is the most expensive STD to have? Pregnancy!