patrick.net

Dan8267 says

So I say, we take away the rights of government to regulate air travel and let
us build our own fucking planes

Dan8267 says

TSA doesn't prevent plane crashes. You're thinking of the FAA, and most
pilots say the FAA doesn't prevent plane crashes either.

You said take away the right of government to regulate air travel. That would obviously include the FAA.

IDDQD says

You seem to have no problem with argument that nobody needs a rifle with certain cosmetic features and will be perfectly fine with a muzzleloader,

I have never made any statement to that effect, nor is that the political position I hold. You simply assume that I'm for stricter gun controls because you view the world as being divided between pro-gun and anti-gun and nothing in between. This polarized view of the world you have is typical of Americans today, but it does not reflect reality.

What I have refuted in this and other threads is the argument that the Second Amendment right to form militias protects us from government tyranny. Back when the Second Amendment was written, government and civilians had the same weapons: muskets. Today the asymmetry in power is ridiculous, so the intent of the Second Amendment simply doesn't work.

However, just because I refute the ludicrous argument that minute men are going to band up and save us from government force, does not mean that I am for further limiting access to arms. I can reject this argument and also reject arguments from the other side. In other words, I don't have to play the stupid polar game of accepting all the dumb arguments from one side and rejecting all arguments from the other side. I base my opinions on facts and reason, not religious dogma.

IDDQD says

Both arguments are essentially the same - somebody telling you that they don't value a particular freedom you hold dear and see no problem when it's being infringed.

One can object to the TSA and their crimes without believing that an armed assault on the TSA is the answer. I'd love to see someone try to exercise their right to carry a firearm, legally registered to them, onto a commercial aircraft. When the TSA and police try to confiscate the gun, I'd love to hear them say, "from my cold dead hands". Somehow, I think the police would have no problems with making that true. But it would be nice to see a militia group try to fly commercial with their rifles. It would be even nicer to see them succeed. But I don't believe there's a snowball chance in hell of that happening.

Again, how does going toe to toe against a well-funded, well-armed government work? It seems destined to failure.

deepcgi says

I don't believe it is ridiculous to say we don't need regulation by the Federal government in air travel.

Even more importantly, if the government takes the power to regulate and restrict access to air travel to supplies under their control, the government has the responsibility and liability to ensure that our right to travel is not infringed upon or inhibited. This is why No Fly lists and TSA rape scanners and sexual groping should not be tolerated.

deepcgi says

The days of hijacking planes is over. Over. No group of passengers will ever again sit peacefully while vigilantes fly them to oblivion

Exactly. The only reason 9/11 succeeded was that the U.S. had the policy of not letting civilians interfere in the hijacking situation. I guarantee you there were many able-bodied men on those flights thinking, "Man, I can easily take these fucking punks down, but then I'll get arrested and thrown in jail for a decade for endangering the plane.". This line of thought would not occur anymore and no jury would find a person guilty of any crime while that person was taking down a hijacker.

This change and locking the cockpit doors are all that is necessary to prevent another 9/11. And quite frankly, having the cockpit doors lock is something that should have been done even ignoring hijacking. Hell, I was shocked they weren't locked. What if some dumb-ass drunk in first class has too much to drink and thinks he could do a better job flying the plane? That has nothing to do with terrorism, is a lot more probable, and is amble cause to have locking cockpit doors.

Call it Crazy says

StillLooking says

We had a well armed civilian population before our Civil War.

I think we have a better one now....

People today may be armed more than before the Civil War, but certainly the difference between the weapons possessed by the government and those by civilians is far, far greater.

The Feds and DHLS are already preparing for civil unrest. 1.6 billion rounds bought in the last year. Enough to wage all-out war for 30 years! Woo!

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition

Dan8267 says

Even more importantly, if the government takes the power to regulate and
restrict access to air travel to supplies under their control, the government
has the responsibility and liability to ensure that our right to travel is not
infringed upon or inhibited. This is why No Fly lists and TSA rape scanners and
sexual groping should not be tolerated.

Typical Dan hyperbole aside, the government must weight the rights of citizens not to be blown up in the sky with the right to privacy. I agree that the current TSA scans are over the line and probably not particularly effective. But it's a difficult line to straddle.

I'm sure you guys heard about this police officer Christopher Dorner who is somewhere here out on a killing rampage. All over the news today. Ironically he preached gun control.

The day government learns to control their own guns and their own officers and soldiers, can be the day they can talk about responsible gun ownership for the rest of us.

I don't agree with government that puts us in danger and tells us to roll over and die.

http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-christopher-dorners-so-called-manifesto/#axzz2KEXJ3hFu

Nobody wants your gold or your house. Stop eating peyote.

Call it Crazy says

Oh, how's that working out for our military over in Afghanistan?

The reason our military can't do shit in Afghanistan is that our politicians are all fucked up. WTF is the winning condition in Afghanistan? All the Muslims love us and the Jews? You can't accomplish that by killing people.

Furthermore, why would the warfare industry want the war in Afghanistan to end? Does Burger King want people to stop eating shitty burgers?

tatupu70 says

Typical Dan hyperbole aside, the government must weight the rights of citizens not to be blown up in the sky with the right to privacy.

There's a big difference between a minor infraction of privacy and mass strip searches, which is what the TSA scanners are. Furthermore, the scanners would not have prevented 9/11. Not at all.

Locking the cockpit door and making sure civilians aren't subject to arrest for taking down hijackers would have prevented 9/11.

Finally, if such strip searches are necessary, why is it that government is pushing to have a certain class of rich, powerful people not subject to them? Once the masses have become complacent with their rights being violated, the ruling class will have special, no rape lines that only they can use to get through the checkpoint.

In fact, the whole damn system is just security theater. Cargo sent through our nation's ports is not even checked, and that cargo could contain nukes, dirty bombs, and biological weapons. Why isn't security at the ports as important? Because it's cheap to invade people's rights, but it's expensive to check cargo.

Furthermore, a terrorist could easily blow up a planing using air mail. Just send a package with a smart phone and an explosive through air mail and have it detonate when the GPS says you are at X altitude.

Even easier still, a suicide bomber could simply detonate a bomb while in the security checkpoint, killing the masses of people crowded around it. What are you going to do about that? Have a security checkpoint before entering the security checkpoint?

Dan8267 says

Because it's cheap to invade people's rights, but it's expensive to check cargo.

best line you have coined in a while. 100% agree.

Bap33 says

Dan8267 says

Because it's cheap to invade people's rights, but it's expensive to check cargo.

best line you have coined in a while. 100% agree.

Much agreed, hey it's cheaper to get obedience from unarmed people than to fix the economy they screwed up up there in Washington.

Hey here is our LAPD at it's finest.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jump-out-boys-20130207,0,7728636.story?track=lanowpicks

A clique that celebrated shootings. You get killed, they celebrate... with psychopaths like that running around I'm certainly going to cling onto my guns.

Call it Crazy says

BHO

BHO = GWB

Dan8267 says

BHO = GWB

Hey, I agree with you on things occasionally too.

Does that make tatupu70 = Dan8267?

That depends on how easily you get excited....
go too far and they turn up the juice on that xray machine and shock you back to realilty...

IDDQD says

You calling patdown at the airport (to which you don't really HAVE to go in the first place) a "sexual assault" doesn't make it even close to real sexual assault a.k.a. rape.

So you'd rather have no patdown and unnecessarily increase the chances some nutjob takes down the plane...
You're a simple ass.
Complicating the issue unnecessarily.....
no patdown = smuggled explosives onto plane = terrorist event.
It's the price you pay for air travel in these times...
Get with the program or get on the train....

Dan8267 says

That's your fucking answer? We, the people, now have no right to travel and must give up our rights to human dignity for the privilege of traveling? We have to accept suffering sexual indignation in order to go to our sibling's wedding, our niece's birth, our parent's funeral? If that's your answer than double fuck you.

Shipping wars! First I've heard of that....

Quigley says

The Feds and DHLS are already preparing for civil unrest. 1.6 billion rounds bought in the last year. Enough to wage all-out war for 30 years! Woo!

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition

tatupu70 says

Does that make tatupu70 = Dan8267?

In your wet dreams.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

mikem says

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

Yet it does. We can't have land mines, missiles, C4 explosives, nukes, tanks, armed helicopters, etc. So clearly this quote is violated severely.

mikem says

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

Unless they are non landed peasants, slaves, native americans, women or anyone else other than white protestant males.

tatupu70 says

Hey, I agree with you on things occasionally too.

How can you agree with this?

Dan8267 says

tatupu70 says

Does that make tatupu70 = Dan8267?

In your wet dreams.

Wow--good one Dan. Lightning fast wit. I never saw it coming......

In truth, you're right. My dream is to be a nerdy, egotistical computer programmer living in Boca with severe anger management issues. Where do I sign up??

tatupu70 says

Where do I sign up??

Same line that your mom's in.

total burn