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bdrasin
2013 Apr 20, 11:14am
The only possible consequence of not Mirandizing Tsarnaev is that his statements post-arrest might not be admissible in his prosecution.
On that we disagree. Not respecting the principles embodied by the Miranda rights affects who we, as a society are, far more than it affects this particular case. This is exactly what determines the characteristics of our nation. Do we uphold our principles when they are inconvenient? If we do not, then the terrorists win because they demonstrate that our way of life doesn't work as we abandon that very way of life.
The true measure of whether a nation values truth, liberty, and justice is whether or not it upholds those values precisely when they are least convenient. In the long run, a society that upholds these values will be stronger and happier than one that doesn't.
Sorry, don't follow. The "principals embodied by Miranda rights" are that no one can be compelled to be a witness against themselves. There's nothing magic about the Miranda warning itself; it is just a safeguard against the police (i.e. the state) pressuring a suspect into self-incrimination. That's it. If the government thinks its worth questioning the guy prior to the Miranda warning, with the knowledge that what he says might not be allowed in his trial (again, we don't need it because there is plenty of other evidence) I don't see the problem. Now if we torture the guy, or ship him off to Gitmo and don't give him a trial at all, then we have a problem...
lostand confused
2013 Apr 20, 11:24am
yea .. and so waterboarding must be the plan to get the info?? of are you stupid ass enough to think the truth just rolls out of a murdering coward?
Lord Barry "got OBL" .. sure he did .... seen a body? But, lets pretend it went down like the movie plot suggested, than the info used was gathered by waterbording and/or by force from questioning bad guys at Gitmo..... ummm .. Lorb Barry promised the liberal pukes, like that freak from Code Pink, that he would be closing Gitmo ... hmmm ... the liberal mind is a horrid center of filth.
Sure would be interesting if Ben-Gauzy was looked into like Boston was. And Fort Hood. Yea ..... stupid assfinding game is underway.
So your solution is to kill him immediately and worry about the next bombing when it happens ?? That defnitely explains Dubya the shrub-Bin Laden attacked us, lets go kill some Iraqis-they are all Muslims-what's the difference??
Vicente
2013 Apr 20, 12:53pm
It would seem odd if they cooked this up by themselves.
Why? All kinds of mass murderers had families, so what?
Nothing about this, reads as more than garden variety terrorist operating with some devices made from a cookbook.
Tens of thousands of people have probably been interviewed by FBI on suspicion. Eventually an agent has to make a choice that this person does not seem to pose an IMINENT danger, they have bigger fish to fry and move on. Likely there was no particular evidence to indicate action versus loudmouth. Once in a blue moon they are said to have "missed" a terrorist when they didn't there was probably no indication AT THAT TIME that these guys were severely radicalized and ready to make bombs.
I stick with Occams Razor. There is nothing to indicate a need for a grand conspiracy. Of course Mom will find some twisted way it's ANYONE else's fault other than her sons.
Bap33
2013 Apr 21, 6:36am
they are all Muslims-what's the difference??
You mention the 95% correct way to approach this issue. The aim should be on arab muslams. They are the only "true" muslams (in their own book it says so), and those crazy arabs want all non arabs dead or slaves ... oh, and so you know, if you are an arab and not a muslam, then they will kill you the same. In the eyes of the arab muslam, if you are arab you must be muslam, and if you are muslam you must be arab,, they are racists and religious bigots at the same time.... a mean combo.
They want a war against Christians and Jews ... lets give it to them.
Bap33
2013 Apr 21, 6:41am
However, why Tsarnaev and his brother committed the act most certainly is an
important question to answer accurately in order to prevent such acts
from being committed again.
(1) how do you plan to extract the info? (2) How are you to be sure it is honest, or even based on reality?
Dan8267
2013 Apr 21, 7:11am
(1) how do you plan to extract the info? (2) How are you to be sure it is honest, or even based on reality?
Put him in jail for life. Eventually regret will set in. Then give him a chance at redemption, not a chance at freedom, but a chance at a better jail experience (more outdoor time, more sport time, etc).
We'll know whether or not it's honest based on the content.
There have been plenty of cases of people changing their lives in jail.
Rin
2013 Apr 21, 8:11am
I dont care why murdering cowards murder anyone. I dont care what weapon they choose. I dont care their age or color or sex or shoe size. I dont care their motivation or excuse.
The whole purpose of the "Why" is not to placate the bleeding hearts. It's so that the experts at Quantico FBI Headquarters could gather more intel & personality profiles of potential lone wolf operative types. Realize this, the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, has been studied in large detail, thanks to the Feds apprehending him alive. If you've noticed, no one's been able to replicate the 17 year reign of terror like Kaczynski's since his time out in the woods.
curious2
2013 Apr 21, 8:18am
FBI's most experienced and successful personnel have said repeatedly that the torture used during the W administration did not help at all, and in fact was counterproductive. Successful interrogators require the three things that were used during the interrogation of Saddam Hussein: a quiet room, sufficient resources, and the time necessary to become the subject's best (and possibly only) friend. Faux News try to spin that into being soft on crime or terrorists or whatever, but in reality Saddam Hussein got executed - by Bop69's preferred method, hanging. Sadistic torture seems to excite repressed Republicans, but truly successful interrogations gather accurate data and develop useful information.
FBI's most experienced and successful personnel have said repeatedly that the torture used during the W administration did not help at all, and in fact was counterproductive
Panetta admits that CIA DID use intelligence from water-boarding to capture bin Laden
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said that some of the information that was used to locate and kill Osama bin Laden was attained using torture.
The admission comes after months of speculation about the role that waterboarding plays in CIA interrogations following its graphic depiction in the Oscar-nominated film Zero Dark Thirty.
'In order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used,’ Panetta said Sunday during an appearance on Meet The Press.
CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
CNSNews.com) - The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques†of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.
Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.â€
According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the “Second Waveâ€-- planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.â€
Bap33
2013 Apr 21, 12:16pm
We'll know whether or not it's honest based on the content.
for that to be the case, then you are asking questions you know the answers to.
Bap33
2013 Apr 21, 12:19pm
there is a reason the israelis don't torture terrorists,
if we would follow all of the anti-terror and anti-illegal immigrant systems used by isreal, then I would conceed to follow their info gathering system too.
there is a reason the israelis don't torture terrorists,
got to hand it to the Mossad.. they dont go around telling people what and how they do things.
the question, or at least one question, should be: is it the most effective way? most studies show no.
that question was answered, we have our methods... heck they are Muslim.. making them stand naked in front of women is considered torture.
Sounds like you want to have a debate in the teachers lounge while your enemies are hatching their plots.
curious2
2013 Apr 21, 2:21pm
Panetta admits that CIA DID use intelligence from water-boarding to capture bin Laden....
That comment and the linked sources illustrate how, even as the Internet has enabled people to communicate more, it has also enabled people to silo themselves more. The two sources that you cited are a "conservative" British tabloid and an American self-styled "conservative" website. Both omitted what Panetta said next, "we could have gotten bin Laden without that." These "conservative" sites are part of the divide & misrule game: they amplify polarization by presenting only what data their target audience will want to hear, so that people feel they have less in common with each other and then they mistrust each other more. Advocating torture, and spinning news reports to support it, are not really "conservative" at all, but they are consistent with the increasing polarization that has reduced the words "conservative" and "liberal" to nearly unintelligible labels for ideologically incoherent patronage networks.
Meanwhile, "60 Minutes" presented this evening an outstanding group of reports related to this week's events in Boston. Dan might especially like this excerpt, about how the surviving suspect was finally captured:
The 20-block search lasted 15 hours. And then Davis announced that they had lost the suspect.
Ed Davis: There was extreme frustration and disappointment in the command post.
Scott Pelley: And it was not, what? Thirty minutes later...
Ed Davis: --it was probably close to 15 minutes later.
Scott Pelley: That a man called 9-1-1. He went into his backyard where he has a boat with a cover over the top and he saw the cover was torn.
Ed Davis: He said he was dying for a cigarette, he had to go outside to have his cigarette. And he saw the blood on the boat. And so he peered in after climbing a ladder. And he told me that he saw a body in there with blood on it."
In other words, keeping people inside and having police search did not result in the capture; allowing people to go outside led to the information that resulted in the arrest.
Both omitted what Panetta said next, "we could have gotten bin Laden without that."
and you left out two important words... from Panetta... "I Think"...
and that isnt " I am sure" or "I am confident" ... we could have gotten bin Laden without that. His words were not a sure fact that OBL would have been caught. He is speculating.
Heck, if you dont need 'enhanced techniques' or you need them, i doesn't bother me. But it did work and they gave up all the information.
Ex-CIA chief defends waterboarding of al Qaeda leader
Rodriguez says everything his interrogators did to top-level terrorists like Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah was legal and effective. "We made some al Qaeda terrorists with American blood on their hands uncomfortable for a few days," he tells Stahl. "I am very secure in what we did and am very confident that what we did saved American lives," says Rodriguez, who has written a book on the subject called "Hard Measures."
Pressed by Stahl about charges that Zubaydah, who was waterboarded and sleep deprived, gave false information that wasted U.S. resources, Rodriguez replies, "Bull****!, He gave us a roadmap that allowed us to capture a bunch of al Qaeda senior leaders," says the ex-spy.
Rodriguez says the interrogation program, which also included stress positions, nudity and "insult slaps," was "about instilling a sense of hopelessness...despair...so that he [the detainee] would conclude on his own that he was better off cooperating with us." He says that even Khalid Sheik Mohammed, whom he termed "the toughest detainee we had," eventually gave up information.
Advocating torture, and spinning news reports to support it, are not really "conservative" at all, but they are consistent with the increasing polarization that has reduced the words "conservative" and "liberal" to nearly unintelligible labels for ideologically incoherent patronage networks.
No.. some of us dont have our tongue up Osama's ass like others and calling him Daddy!
there is a reason the israelis don't torture terrorists,
if we would follow all of the anti-terror and anti-illegal immigrant systems used by isreal, then I would conceed to follow their info gathering system too.
what roberto fails to mention is left wing loonies have prevented the Mossad from using any method the courts may call torture from being used. it was not one of choice on their part.
In other words, keeping people inside and having police search did not result in the capture; allowing people to go outside led to the information that resulted in the arrest.
this is Lefty Boston your talking about.. not Dallas, Texas.
JodyChunder
2013 Apr 21, 4:25pm
not Dallas, Texas.
Almost got mugged in downtown Dallas last time I was there...Deep Ellum, 1988.
Almost got mugged in downtown Dallas last time I was there...Deep Ellum, 1988.
LOL! perhaps in Dallas, you can own a gun.. not likely you can do anything in Boston.
Where is Uncle Joes... Big Ass Shot gun!
Anyway, everyone is rushing to judgment - out to get Boston Police, FBI, Tea Party, etc etc etc.
Bap33
2013 Apr 22, 1:35pm
WTF Bap33,
In which book does it say arab are the only muslims?
the fable wrote by their wanna-be-Jesus arab says so. It says, in a very plain way, that blood arabs are true muslams, and non-arabs that claim to be converted and act and live as muslams will be allowed to live, be treated as slaves, and have no right to life. No right to life, is almost an exact translation, by the way. The fabels of mohamad are available in english on line.
Luie Farakan knows he is a second class muslam too, that is why he stays in the usa where beng black has more power and makes more money, than being a second class muslam in any arab land.
finehoe
2013 Apr 23, 1:31am
left wing loonies have prevented the Mossad from using any method the courts may call torture from being used.
Has Israel not signed the Geneva Conventions?
Bap33
2013 Apr 24, 2:02pm
left wing loonies have prevented the Mossad from using any method the courts may call torture from being used.
Has Israel not signed the Geneva Conventions?
the G Con only covers uniformed regulars, and specificly allows the execution of gorillias. In the eyes of warriors, the arab murderers are not covered by any portion of the G Con.
Bap33
2013 Apr 24, 2:10pm
hey kind of like the old testament? about how the israelites killed off all
the people that was in the land god promised to them?
nope, not like the OT in any regard. The arab fable is more like the Joe Smith (mormon) fable ... it's a "me too" for Jesus, salvation, and the personage of God.... both have one person writing each one in a single life span. The OT is a collection of ancient records and stories from thousands of stories and hundreds or writers of thousands of years. Pretty cool, aint it?
Buddah may be how God revealed himself to the yellow man, maybe?
MsBennet
2013 Apr 24, 4:17pm
So the good old US oF A helped a family have a chance in America because they were political refuges, and they lived off welfare for years, and even when the son grew up and was able-bodied, he didn't have *time* to work, didn't want to get his hands dirty (or too busy plotting), so he had his wife work full-time and lived off her, sold and used drugs, dissed their college completely (one with scholarship) and failed (both boys), shoplifted (mother), committed murder and maiming of innocent people including children (the cowardly way), including shooting a cop FIVE times while he was sitting in his car, trying to kill more cops, hijacking a car, etc.
Then years after being here the husband and wife go back to their land and leave their teenage son (I guess they were no longer refuges *?* - ) when they figured out being in the US wasn't all that easy.
Wow, could these people sink any lower in anyone's eyes. What a bunch of scum. What ignorant, stupid people.
The older son told someone the Bible is a cheap copy of the Quran. Yeah, right, dummy. Bible came before the Quran by, oh, 500 years. Stupid, ignorant, crazy. He probably never read the Quran, just gets sound bites from YouTube.
Stupid.
Vicente
2013 Apr 25, 2:30am
Wow, could these people sink any lower in anyone's eyes.
The Mom allegedly is hesitant to return to the USA due to some kind of outstanding shoplifting charge. Bail jumper!
Tamerlan was married to this chick also with a shoplifting record:
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
REALITY TV SHOW!
finehoe
2013 Apr 25, 2:39am
"There is no firm or persuasive evidence that the widespread use of harsh interrogation techniques by U.S. forces produced significant information of value. There is substantial evidence that much of the information adduced … was not useful or reliable."
Bubbabeefcake
2013 Apr 25, 2:44am
http://www.youtube.com/embed/W7ZO9hSG0x0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
The nutty Florida Atlantic University professor who suggested the Sandy Hook school massacre was staged is at it again, blogging that the Boston Marathon bombing was some sort of government drillRead more:Â http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/24/controversial-professor-who-denied-sandy-hook-shooting-now-questions-boston/#ixzz2RUlfZArd
bdrasin
2013 Apr 25, 4:02am
Holy crap, what a dipshit! "The event closely resembles a mass casualty drill" - gee, could that possibly be because MASS CASUALTY DRILLS are designed to look like REAL MASS CASUALTY EVENTS? Prof. Tracy should thank his lucky stars for tenure...
Bubbabeefcake
2013 Apr 28, 4:31pm
That says it all. No explanation needed.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/IFo3x_UgQ80&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Dan8267
2013 May 7, 4:15am
What to do with a terrorist's body after he's dead? The people of Massachusetts don't want it and cemeteries are refusing it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/06/us-usa-explosions-boston-burial-idUSBRE9450O720130506
Vicente
2013 May 7, 7:46am
Isn't the body the problem of the family?
Too bad Islam doesn't allow cremation.
Isn't the body the problem of the family?
Too bad Islam doesn't allow cremation.
If Islam is the religion of peace then he can't be a muslim so I say fry him up.
Bigsby
2013 May 7, 9:38am
The nutty Florida Atlantic University professor who suggested the Sandy Hook school massacre was staged is at it again, blogging that the Boston Marathon bombing was some sort of government drillRead more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/24/controversial-professor-who-denied-sandy-hook-shooting-now-questions-boston/#ixzz2RUlfZArd
So are you now trying to disprove your own theory?
Bigbubbabear:
Here, look at this video of an insane professor. He believes what I believe. I must be right.
Rin
2013 May 8, 10:18am
What to do with a terrorist's body after he's dead? The people of Massachusetts don't want it and cemeteries are refusing it.
Well, City of Cambridge has officially refused to bury his body.
And though I live in MA and I'm a bit far from the action scene, if my town were to attempt to bury him, I'd also file a complaint with town hall.
Then give him a chance at redemption, not a chance at freedom, but a chance at a better jail experience (more outdoor time, more sport time, etc).
Its sure has done wonders with the Drug gangs still operating their smuggling empire even behind bars.
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