patrick.net

I have test driven a Hybrid Camry and a Plug-in Prius. Both handle much better than when I first tried them out a half-dozen years ago. I can lease a Hybrid Camry for the same as gas, but get no HOV sticker. Plug-in Prius is $150 bucks more, but I'd save that on tolls (last I checked).

Lease on a Hybrid Camry is ~200, with 2K down. Prius Plug-in is ~350 on a lease, plus you get State credit of 1500. (additional 2500 Federal to buy, but payments were 650/mo or more)

Test drove a Passat and that was pretty good. They're about the same in cost (maybe 250/mo). I also had an Altima as a rental while my OG Camry was getting body-shopped, but I think that was one of the worst ones I drove.

Nothing too bad, but the motor seemed to be working really hard for most driving.

SFace says

It's kinda of a personal question.

The Tesla Model S is a car I watch closely when they are around, which suprisingly is quite often.

I regret selling my TSLA stock! I think Musk is going to succeed now for sure. I'm thinking Solarcity charging stations across California too, so get that while it's hot.

CL says

Nothing too bad, but the motor seemed to be working really hard for most driving.

Probably just the way the CVT transmission works.

donjumpsuit says

More or less, if you think you will own your car for 7-10 years, don't buy something new that is straight gasoline. These could be dinasaurs in 7-10 years.

You are what you eat...

donjumpsuit says

Consider the plug-ins and CNG. If you street park, this could not be applicable.

I do like CNG vehicles, especially since they can be found cheap on the used market (if you don't mind an ex-fleet vehicle) and they can still get carpool stickers.

I agree though, street parking might be an issue.

New Renter says

I agree though, street parking might be an issue.

Why is that? For refilling?

I always wanted a convertible and purchasing a Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder Convertible has been a real pleasure.

CL says

New Renter says

I agree though, street parking might be an issue.

Why is that? For refilling?

Yes.

New Renter says

CL says

New Renter says

I agree though, street parking might be an issue.

Why is that? For refilling?

Yes.

I've seen PGE substations have refueling. I have one by my building that I was scoping out. How common are they up and down the state though? Easy enough to drive to LA and back without anxiety?

CL says

New Renter says

CL says

New Renter says

I agree though, street parking might be an issue.

Why is that? For refilling?

Yes.

I've seen PGE substations have refueling. I have one by my building that I was scoping out. How common are they up and down the state though? Easy enough to drive to LA and back without anxiety?

http://www.weststart.net/ccm/home/

If you can park the car in your own garage you may be able to get a home refilling station as well.

New Renter says

If you can park the car in your own garage you may be able to get a home refilling station as well.

Even cheaper if I could park in a neighbor's garage!

If only that damn car would stop smiling at me.

CL says

New Renter says

If you can park the car in your own garage you may be able to get a home refilling station as well.

Even cheaper if I could park in a neighbor's garage!

Sorry, their CNG hookup is useless without a compressor.

If however you are talking about an electrical hookup don't bother with their garage -an outdoor outlet and an extension cord will do fine.

Call it Crazy says

CL says

What type of car is looking good to you right now? And are you likely to lease or buy it?

Just bought a 2013 Honda Ridgeline. I wanted to buy American, but unfortunately, the japs build a better vehicle....

*

Honda Alabama begs to differ
http://www.hondaalabama.com/

I'm looking at two. A new 2012 Prius that the dealer is desperate to get rid of, or a 2013 Honda Accord. The dealer has a huge inventory of Accords.

Me? A cash buyer with no trade in.

Call it Crazy says

New Renter says

Honda Alabama begs to differ

http://www.hondaalabama.com/

Are you talking manufacturing or assembly??

Both:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Manufacturing_of_Alabama

Dude, you bought American!

jvolstad says

I'm looking at two. A new 2012 Prius that the dealer is desperate to get rid of, or a 2013 Honda Accord. The dealer has a huge inventory of Accords.

Me? A cash buyer with no trade in.

Its CASH or FUCK YOU!

In terms of negotiating, I had good luck with just calling into the dealer and asking for their 'fleet sales' or 'internet sales' and giving them the basic specs you are looking for. In my case it was:
- Side curtain air bags
- Manual Transmission
and told them to stay on their lot, and what they were willing to give me the biggest % off MSRP on.

I drove to the winning dealer handed them a check and drove off with a Mazda Protege 5 (the little sport hatchback thing) for close to 30% off MSRP. It now has 120k miles and just put my first money into it (changed timing belt, and water pump, which was recommended, but not necessarily required yet).

I still recommend using their fleet/internet sales people via phone if you already know what you want. You almost invariably get a better price than if you walk into the dealership.

Straw Man says

CL says

What type of car is looking good to you right now? And are you likely to lease or buy it?

The only interesting to me new car on the market is Subaru BRZ. But I'm not likely to lease or buy in since the wheels has not fallen off from the cars I already own. ;)

That IS a sweet ride!

Ford Focus.

I'm looking at leasing one of four cars:
1) Chevy Volt
2) Ford Fusion Hybrid
3) Kia Optima Hybrid
4) Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

One of my neighbors works for Ford. The other for Toyota, and he told me to look at the Prius Plugin.

I work out of my house and don't drive more than 5K miles per year. 90% of my miles driven are local, hence my interest in a hybrid, especially electric. The lease is so low on the Volt base model ($290+tax) and I wont be using gas. It would be cheaper than my current 2011 Hyundai Sonata, which only gets 15-16 mpg.

CL says

Lease on a Hybrid Camry is ~200, with 2K down. Prius Plug-in is ~350 on a lease, plus you get State credit of 1500.

You sure about this? Most Camry hybrid leases I've seen are in the mid $300s. Prius is even more...

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

New Renter says

Its CASH or FUCK YOU!

It's CASH or FUCK YOU, America!

I stand corrected my Sensei!

zzyzzx says

Ford Focus.

Also a good choice. I drove one as a rental last year. I liked it.

Waitingtobuy says

It would be cheaper than my current 2011 Hyundai Sonata, which only gets 15-16 mpg.

Jesus what kind of a driver ARE you?

donjumpsuit says

Oh Cool.

CNG is actually clean energy. A misnomer I know.

No its pretty clean. DME (dimethyl oxide) which can be made from NG is cleaner AND can be liquified like propane. It also compatible with the diesel cycle.

That might be a few years down the line though.

donjumpsuit says

If you work from home, are you self employeed?

If so, can you deduct the lease (or portions thereof) from your taxes?

Hybrids might make sense if you consider price point and gasoline savings of 5k miles a year. Make sure you do the math.

Yes, I run two businesses out of my house. Take lots of deduction, including my car lease.

New Renter says

It would be cheaper than my current 2011 Hyundai Sonata, which only gets 15-16 mpg.

Jesus what kind of a driver ARE you?

Ha! I drive in LA traffic, usually 3-10 miles/day. Hyundai claims the car gets 24 mpg. I can never get it above 15-17. (they have been caught lying about other cars too) http://www.nbcnews.com/business/mileage-flap-could-cost-hyundai-kia-millions-1C6892842

It is the ultra short commutes that kill my mileage. According to my friend, who is literally a rocket scientist, it takes 15 mins for the catalytic converter to warm up, which is horrible for ultra short commutes and their mileage.

One reason I should get either a hybrid of plug in; so I don't use the gas motor.

Waitingtobuy says

According to my friend, who is literally a rocket scientist, it takes 15 mins for the catalytic converter to warm up, which is horrible for ultra short commutes and their mileage.

The catalytic converter(s) does nothing for mileage, only for emissions.

Your engine however does need to warmup and that should affect mileage.

If your commute is that short the Nisan Leaf might be more your style:

http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/

New Renter says

The catalytic converter(s) does nothing for mileage, only for emissions.

Well, fuel injection is controlled by ECU, which in turns takes the readings from cat converter via O2 sensors. Yes, cat plays a role in the mileage.

My list of top cars is based on acceptable legroom and lowest CO2/mile:

1. Jetta Hybrid
2. Passat TDI
3. Jetta TDI

If you don't need the legroom:

1. Toyota Prius (not the plug-in version)
2. Toyota Prius (not the plug-in version)
3. Toyota Prius (not the plug-in version)
4. ... did I mention the Toyota Prius?

Cars to avoid like the plague, because they suck and the CO2/mile is WORSE
than the best hybrids or diesels of the same size:

1. anything electrical (EV), because it has higher CO2/mile
2. anything plug-in hybrid (PHEV), because it has higher CO2/mile
3. Chevy Volt in particular
4. Nissan Leaf in particular
5. Tesla Model S in particular
6. Prius PHEV in particular
7. any car with more than 4 cylinders or more than 2L of displacement
8. and ESPECIALLY: anything hydrogen (need I say more?)
9. anything made by that fool Elon Musk, including Tesla, and especially including Space-X rockets that burn megatons of fossile fuel just so that said Elon Musk can feel important.

Undoubtedly, lots of uninformed and misinformed people are going to get their shorts in a twist over what I'm saying here. May I respectfully suggest that you do the math, considering that nearly 70% of US electrical grid mix is from fossile-fired power plants, including about 45% from COAL. That's right, your shiny new Tesla model S, runs on 45% COAL, and with a thermal efficiency of less than 33% to boot.

Some common fallacies:

1. no, it doesn't matter that you have a solar panel on your house: instead of charging your car with it you should feed that electricity into the grid and use it to displace COAL there. Then drive a Prius.

2. no, it does not matter that your electric car gets "102 MPGe" (Nissan Leaf). MPGe is a fraudulent measure because it "forgets" to account for the 100-33=67% energy loss in the coal plants, and the 45% energy loss in the natgas plants.

3. no, the amount of fossile fuel in the grid mix is not going down anytime soon. CO2/kWh is not going to drop because of some tiny amount of green power. Nuclear will take 20+ years to come online. In fact, added demand from EV charging will force the CO2/kWh higher.

4. no, it doesn't matter that you believe that you can charge you car with wind power at night. Use the wind power to turn off the coal plants (displace the coal).

5. no, it does not matter that you think California power has lower CO2/kWh than Ohio (or whatever) because "we" use more natgas and "they" use more coal. There is pretty much a national grid and therefore electrical energy is a fungible commodity.

Listen, there is a bit of sarcasm towards Tesla and Elon Musk mixed in with the facts above, but the rest is the plain truth. Anyone who can think straight and do freshman physics can calculate the CO2/mile for any vehicle based on published MPG or kWh/mile numbers.

Addendum: I agree with NewRenter that the Mazda 6 Diesel is a good choice, but you'll have to wait until fall 2013 for the 2014 model. There are also many other cars in various stages of development that would be good choices. Here is one of them:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1306_2013_volkswagen_xl1_first_drive

261 mpg on EU driving cycle! Powered by Diesel Hybrid, which is the best technology available today. No Sci-Fi, it really works today.

I bought a new 2012 model recently-got a very good discount. I was willing to pay cash for it. But the dealer said I would get one of their rebates only if I financed with them. Since it was a big discount, I asked about the interest rates and they offered me zero percent interest loan, after running my credit.

I am still scratching my head-I am willing to pay cash, but you give me a loan at zero percent interest and a discount/rebate for that? WTF?????

Now, if only I can find someone who will give me a zero percent mortgage!

lostand confused says

I bought a new 2012 model recently-got a very good discount. I was willing to pay cash for it. But the dealer said I would get one of their rebates only if I financed with them. Since it was a big discount, I asked about the interest rates and they offered me zero percent interest loan, after running my credit.

I am still scratching my head-I am willing to pay cash, but you give me a loan at zero percent interest and a discount/rebate for that? WTF?????

Now, if only I can find someone who will give me a zero percent mortgage!

Is it zero percent for the life of the loan or is it going to balloon in a few months?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

New Renter says

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

New Renter says

Its CASH or FUCK YOU!

It's CASH or FUCK YOU, America!

I stand corrected my Sensei!

It's all good!

Glad to hear it given I am supposed to taste AWESOME smoked with an orange sauce.

Okay, so here's a question:

I was approached a while back, as I have been in the past, with what I believe to be a "pull-ahead" offer from Toyota. They basically entice you to get out of your current lease (which ends in 3-4 months) and stay in the manufacturer's family.

I thought it was possible that I had some positive equity in the car, and they had the used car mangler appraise it. He calculated that I was underwater by some amount and they began to deduct that amount from the incentives they were giving me.

I walked out of the dealership, since I figured that the amount they were taking away was equivalent to my remaining payments. Why not keep the car and drive the hell out of it for 4 months, since I'm only at 20K miles on a 36K mile lease?

Is this SOP? I would assume that any pull-ahead would expunge any negative equity. Anyone have any experience with this?

New Renter says

Is it zero percent for the life of the loan or is it going to balloon in a
few months?

Zero percent for the life of the loan.

lostand confused says

Zero percent for the life of the loan.

Which manufacturer?

CL says

lostand confused says

Zero percent for the life of the loan.

Which manufacturer?

Hyundai and my finance is through Hyundai too.

raindoctor says

New Renter says

The catalytic converter(s) does nothing for mileage, only for emissions.

Well, fuel injection is controlled by ECU, which in turns takes the readings from cat converter via O2 sensors. Yes, cat plays a role in the mileage.

I don't believe that is the way it works. The O2 sensors ARE used to tune the engine in real time but they are not integral to the converter.

The shitty mileage is more likely to be caused by the greater viscosity of cold lubricants, sloppier tolerances of cold parts, cold tires (cold air = lower pressure), etc. The engine may also be tuned for a richer mixture and higher idle to run better when cold (This used to be performed manually with a choke cable). None of this has anything to do with the converter.

Nissan Leaf S lease is $99/month. Many folks get these and use the money saved on fuel for the lease payments.
justme says:
1. no, it doesn't matter that you have a solar panel on your house: instead of charging your car with it you should feed that electricity into the grid and use it to displace COAL there. Then drive a Prius.
The bulk of recharging is done at night with excess reserves. BEVs have a positive impact on air quality in urban areas; there is also a case to be made for short trips in with a BEV versus an ICE.

EBGuy says

Nissan Leaf S lease is $99/month. Many folks get these and use the money saved on fuel for the lease payments.

justme says:

1. no, it doesn't matter that you have a solar panel on your house: instead of charging your car with it you should feed that electricity into the grid and use it to displace COAL there. Then drive a Prius.

The bulk of recharging is done at night with excess reserves. BEVs have a positive impact on air quality in urban areas; there is also a case to be made for short trips in with a BEV versus an ICE.

That's right. Its not only Hyundais that get shitty cold-engine mileage.

I think that $99/mo lease takes a hefty down payment though.

NR said: I think that $99/mo lease takes a hefty down payment though.
I'm not a 'lease guy', so take this with a grain of salt. From what I can tell, the 'standard non-negotiated' lease for $99/month requires $3,500 down (total out the door). You may be able to negotiate better lease terms (cost, residual, or money factor).