patrick.net

Common Sense Citizen says

Typical response from an immature, socially inept moron. Please read Patrick's comments where is able to keep the discussion on the points and not resort to name calling (as I so inappropriately engaged you in above).

It's so funny. Those with that have liberal leaning (or however you would like to define it) tendencies are so quick to anger when ANYONE disagrees with anything they have to say, or has a point counter to their dogmatic agenda. .

Saying a particular comment might indicate you're stupid is actually not name-calling. As I've stated numerous times, I don't subscribe to any particular ideology, and I'd posit that pointing out that a comment is probably less than intelligent is not usually considered "anger."

But the point is that more than 50 Senators (including the Republican who let it get voted out of committee) and more than half of the House of Representatives agreed with me, whereas the most clever thing you can think of is saying "B. Hussein." No dogma here -- read my posts.

Common Sense Citizen says

Like I said I'm not left or right.

You're also a liar.

Common Sense Citizen says

what it takes to become a board certified physician in this country, in this litigious day and age.

By the way, your description of healthcare as being "litigious" is ridiculous nonsense perpetuated by ideologues and has already been debunked here by me and others. Which of course you'd know if you were actually a bona fide forum dweller here, rather than an interloper trying to sling mud and spew talking points.

Read my posts on this thread: http://patrick.net/?p=1058722

Why does the Right feel so besieged? As far as I can tell, they've won every major policy victory in my lifetime.

They've held the White House more often than the Democrats, and when we do get a Democrat he was a DLC triangulator, a fancy word for Republican--victory for them again. (Coincidentally, the only Democrat re-elected since FDR). Democrats can win the Presidency, and the houses of Congress, but "centrist" DINOs prevent real change. They can lose the House and be stifled by the ruthless tea-illiterati--one caucus in one branch--victory again.

Not content to stop moderate policy (preciously their own legislative goals, like HCR), they attempt to kill the already-decimated unions and go after a woman's right to medical treatment. They discourage the youth vote and suppress minority turnout. They installed regulators and Fed Chairmen who believe that markets self-regulate, and that the best Government is one that destroys itself.

So, you've won--congratulations. But with your policies come some negative consequences--like the rotten economy we're in. And despite their dominance, they'd have you believe it's the Democrat's fault. It's Barney Frank's fault. Weird worldview, that's for sure.

In this climate, the truth would indeed seem liberal since the dominant conservative answers have been and continue to be so, so wrong.

I say, keep telling the truth Patrick! Reality has a liberal bias!

Larry, you are pathetic.

You probably think Occupy Wall St. is wrong.

CL-
The right feels besieged because they are constant whiners.
Absolutely NO integrity.
Take Larry for instance, trying to mute the person that created this site.

Common Sense Citizen says

ust the other day you posted a link about how doctors make "too much money". Really? That should be on a real estate blogging website coming from someone who has zero idea about what goes into being a doctor or the sacrifices

Doc, sounds like you gotta make your own website to share your truisms about how physicians are underpaid, how NOBODY wanted Obama care, etc. Go for it!

I don't not read Patrick.net anymore, I just read it a lot less since the left wing evangelical slant started. I'm politically agnostic.

Patrick seems not to notice we have a Democratic controlled government. Anyone who buys that the left wing is "for the people" is delusional.

I have a lot of sympathy for views from both the Tea Party AND the OWS movement. It is sad to see people getting sucked into talking points as if they are facts. I have had friends recently post Facebook messages seriously comparing Obama to Jesus Christ.

I used to read this place. But the California leftist lunatics (the freaks that are like Jerry Moonbeam Union Brown breaking this state from the 5th largest economy to dire straits, total default and total insolvency and chasing away all business) took over and its barely worth looking at. It only gets a skim at this point. The namesake for this website went from a Ron Paulish type to a Big Central Government Stalinist in like a years time.

Buster says

FortWayne says

gregpfielding says

It isn't conservatism or liberalism that is screwing everything up. It's corporatism.
...
Truth be told.
...

I'll go along with that. It's no longer about Republican versus Democrat -- it's about citizens versus politicians. And, the politicians have been working too closely with Wall Street.

As for Patrick's site, I've been reading it on and off (for years?) for the real estate information. Over the last few months, I too have found it increasingly addressing other unrelated issues with lead-ins that increasingly reflect Patrick's political views. If I want that, I'll go to HuffPost on the left or DrudgeReport on the right.

What had been good about Patrick.net was that it/he was addressing an area that reflected corporatism at work, and it could attract those on the left and the right trying to diagnose the misinformation in the mainstream media to perpetuate the corporatism. Perhaps Patrick can branch out to other areas where the mainstream media blindly parrots the politicians and Wall Street. But, like it/he did in the past, I'd find it more useful if it/he stuck to the facts and maybe occasional reasoned argument rather than ideology, gut feelings or "solutions" to political problems that are presented as the only viable options.

Mick Russom says

I used to read this place. But the California leftist lunatics (the freaks that are like Jerry Moonbeam Union Brown breaking this state from the 5th largest economy to dire straits, total default and total insolvency and chasing away all business) took over and its barely worth looking at. It only gets a skim at this point. The namesake for this website went from a Ron Paulish type to a Big Central Government Stalinist in like a years time.

Yes although stalinist may be a bit harsh :-/

Perhaps We Agree says

As for Patrick's site, I've been reading it on and off (for years?) for the real estate information. Over the last few months, I too have found it increasingly addressing other unrelated issues with lead-ins that increasingly reflect Patrick's political views. If I want that, I'll go to HuffPost on the left or DrudgeReport on the right.

What had been good about Patrick.net was that it/he was addressing an area that reflected corporatism at work, and it could attract those on the left and the right trying to diagnose the misinformation in the mainstream media to perpetuate the corporatism. Perhaps Patrick can branch out to other areas where the mainstream media blindly parrots the politicians and Wall Street. But, like it/he did in the past, I'd find it more useful if it/he stuck to the facts and maybe occasional reasoned argument rather than ideology, gut feelings or "solutions" to political problems that are presented as the only viable options.

This, but better put than I was communicating.

Doc, sounds like you gotta make your own website to share your truisms about how physicians are underpaid, how NOBODY wanted Obama care, etc. Go for it!

I might. I think the general population should be more educated on what it takes to be a doctor then maybe I wouldn't need to explain why doctors are underpaid. Who do you want being compensated well for their services? Financiers? Government? Athletes? Movie stars? Celebrities? Investment bankers? Common sense.

Oh and by the way, I just saw this on Doctor Housing Bubble blog in the comments section by Laura Louzader, without any provocation.

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/twin-bubbles-housing-higher-education-student-load-debt-college-debt-pricing-out-first-time-buyers/

"But even if you are attending medical school at a top school, you can easily ruin your life by accumulating debt in order to do it. A medical education, for example, costs about $250K, added to the cost of your undergrad degree. You can easily end up with a balance of $400,000 to pay. It is easy to see that even with an income of $200,000 a year or more, that this will be a massive debt to pay and will mean you won’t be able get the benefit of your paycheck, because a third of it will be committed to paying off debt that, if everything goes right, you won’t be able to pay off until you’re in your late 40s. The payments will be at least $2000 a month, subject to changes in interest rates, and you will have to make that payment in addition to your housing expense, your car, your medical insurance, your food, and whatever else you might have in mind to spend your money on. And we’re talking about a high-paying profession?"

Ditto, Mick is an asshole by definition.

I think the poster above put it best by pointing out that the right has won every battle they have waged over the last 30 years and have gotten EVERYTHING that they wished even with Democratic support. We are now living the consequences of 30 years of right wing rule. Now all we see in folks such as the tea party is how big of a victim they can pretend to be. It would be amusing to watch if it weren't so sad and pathetic. They are only victims of themselves.

For those of you here who don't wish to look at objective truths, there is always Fox news. For all others who are genuinely trying to get a grasp on what is happening in the real world this is a great forum.

Say, what if I put some new piece of cheesecake on the home page each day? Just to get attention from the men at least, and lower the bounce rate. Actually, I've read that women also prefer to look at good-looking women:

Oh, friend. You would lose me forever. Don't do it. Don't break my heart. Don't you have any daughters? The problems of objectifying women are so many. Value us for our intellect, for our character. Don't glamorize our bodies in the absence of the rest of our existence. At the VERY LEAST. And I mean very least, put some half dressed man up there, too.

What other image would instantly grab the attention of someone who glances at the page?

Hey Patrick ! Larry is right. It is as if you designed the obsolescence.
Several (3 to 30) years from now, when real property values begin appreciating, prospective buyers will no longer google "housing bubble" to find Patrick's enlightening information.
What escapes Larry, is the gubmint imputed rules pertaining to home values. Solving that crisis involves diagnosing the interference. Separating one from the other is a love / hate relationship. Can't talk real estate without involving gubmint.
OR, CAN WE ?

I imagine one website were ALL people go down a list of line items on a daily, weekly, maybe quarterly basis.

#1. NEVER TOO BIG TO FAIL - vote yes or no
#2. CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS ARE DISTRIBUTED EQUALLY - vote yes or no
#3. CONGRESS RECEIVES SAME SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS - vote yes or no
#4. WOMEN CARRY THE BEER - vote yes or no

Animated picture of some kind that reflects the content of your ideas! I am not much of a designer, but I would look at the charts that are most often posted here about the price of houses overtime. Look at the most compelling ideas and think of what images they inspire. Ask your wife and children to help you design it. Make it something that reflects who you are and what you believe in.

Ideas:
Something that shows a banker taking food out of the mouth of a child.
A banker reclining comfortably in luxury perched on top of 99 people toiling and suffering.
A graphic of houses on fire as the slide down the housing graph.

Part of what I love about your site is the no bullshit layout. You don't need pretty pictures to get my attention. Your ideas and ethics win my attention.

You could post porn on the front page and get a lot of attention, but you don't want to be that guy.

Marching Cadence > Left Right Left

WHEN I WAS BORN MY DADDY LEFT! left, right, left.
LATER ON MY MOMMA LEFT! left, right, left.
I GOT DEPLOYED MY WOMAN LEFT! left, right, left.
THE ARMY THE ONLY THING THAT'S LEFT! left, right, left.
COME ON! left, right, left.
LOUDER! left, right, left.
COVER! left, right, left.
AGAIN! left, right, left.

Obviously they can figure out they have 2 feet. It doesn't look really complicated. However it tends to make the people that are normal. Feel real fuckin' dizzy.

Or another words if you assign limitless mental capicity. To people that don't really have it. You should either:

A. Walk away or give up - recommended
B. Hang around and get curious. Possibly being nice and polite
like your mother might be. Then you might because of the
repetitive world they have to live in (see above cadence)
Shift your brain down 5 gears to slow up and catch them
Then you might possibly get in line (gee that march does
look cool after all) and start singing the cadence. The only
thing that does not give away the cadence is: they don't have DUH at the end
of left, right left. Cute trick it's simple enough.

bg says

Animated picture of some kind that reflects the content of your ideas!

OK, I'd love an animated picture of a house on fire. Any graphic artists out there?

And it would be a very interesting experiment to put the image in and check the bounce rate, take it out, check it again.

I was thinking about what I said. In truth, I don't really know you. I should have said that isn't who I want you to be. I am just guessing about the rest of it. Maybe your wife would be behind the cheesecake pictures. I am just thinking that there are eye-catching pictures that reflect your ideas. That seems much better to me for such a intellectually well informed site.

OK, I'd love an animated picture of a house on fire. Any graphic artists out there?

And it would be a very interesting experiment to put the image in and check the bounce rate, take it out, check it again.

LIKE!!!

What other image would instantly grab the attention of someone who glances at the page?

boobs work

Bap33 says

boobs work

Depends on your audience and your goal!

This site has an outhouse on fire, says they're free.

Patrick,
I think your website is great, and your taste in women is fantastic. I say, include more cheesecake, and more left of center links!

If ONLY housing were actually bottoming out, I could see patrick.net Real Estate focus being past it's time.

However I still hear phrases like this in my social circles all the time:

"We are the the bottom, time to buy before it's too late!"

"Y'all should buy a house, it's going to be a great investment when the market starts appreciating at 10% like it used to."

"You aren't really saving any money unless you are BUILDING EQUITY".

"Only homeowners really build a community, people who rent just bring down a neighborhood".

Yeah not much has really changed, the cheerleaders for the American Dream being a treadmill of debt are still all there they just haven't been QUITE so in your face about it. But any time housing comes up the old bromides still pop out of their mouths. I live in Davis where median price is STILL way too high relative to income and it's astonishing how ignorant people are of how unaffordable it is, they only see "how much it's come down" as what a bargain that makes it. It was overpriced before, and is now less so, but is still....overpriced. One of our colleagues was telling us what a bargain the empty house across the street from her was at $350K. Maybe with a view of the Bay, but not a McMansion on a micro-lot in ag-school podunk town. Lot of educating still left to do.

Mick, you're an asshole and you're full of shit. Being for a government health insurance option to stop our collective rape by the corporate insurance oligopoly doesn't make me a Stalinist but you're too much of a narrow minded cretin to understand that.

Patrick, I'm not sure what direction you'd like to take your site, but as a longtime reader, I'm a bit taken aback by statements like this coming from the owner of a media channel I read. Among other things, I question the need to use what seems to me to be significant hyperbole, "sound bite" descriptions without supporting facts and ad hominem attacks. Yes, someone was trying to identify the political slant of the site, and of you, but, from my vantage, the response was disproportionate, unproductive and to a large extent nonresponsive to the original remark.

Patrick may have decreased the number of current links on the main page having to do with nursing homes and increased the topical often political ones. But since there are many regulars who toss around political arguments on the misc. forum, and because what he posts is informative (if biased) and reflects his point of view, I think it's great.

It's one of the main reasons I like the site. (I know - I'm one of the commie lefties. Ha)

Personally I agree with others above who have pointed out that what counts as leftist these days would have been very moderate in the days when the US was still ruled by a government that represented the people.

These are amazing times and strange times. Scary times. I say props to Patrick for for using the site to help inform the majority who are in the middle, relatively independent and open to learning where we are and what is at stake.

There is a huge amount of money and power that will be directed to preventing us from proper reforms. I fear the 1% might rather take us to world war 3 than to allow for example publicly funded elections. Our only hope is that a growing gradual movement that unifies us, rather than the usual divide and conquer can take shape and become a political force.

It's going to be tough though since the powerful who control the media have so many highly refined ways to distract us, and because so many of us are such fricking dim bulbs.

Ps: Patrick thanks for this awesome link to Chris Hedges talking about occupy Wall Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=uz5RxhahHK0

Perhaps We Agree says

I'm a bit taken aback by statements like this coming from the owner of a media channel I read. Among other things, I question the need to use what seems to me to be significant hyperbole

Yes, it is too much, but the idea is to point out there is now a separate forum (called "Outside") where such insults are perfectly acceptable.

If he's going to call me a Stalinist without justification, I'm going to call him an asshole. And we should take it Outside.

Actually, I think one finds links and comments on Patrick.net which run the gamut from "left" to "right". What I think is most consistent about them is the populist orientation of many of the articles and comments. In a country where the rich really are getting richer and everyone else is not -- or is actually getting poorer -- it can't be too surprising that populist sentiments are growing stronger everyday. These very feelings of marginalization and protest were dominant in the progressive movement of the early 20th century (which achieved some great things), and they lie behind much "Tea Party" rhetoric as well as that of the "Occupy Wall Street" folks. While there are certainly significant differences between these two groups, the overall frustration and sense of populist protest is deeply felt and shared by all their members. I do worry about our future though. Populism can lead to great reforms, but it can also lead to extreme reactionary responses that can actually make matters worse. I don't think anyone knows what the best path forward is, and most people probably know that deep in their hearts. That is what makes this crisis so frightening. At any rate, I think Patrick does a great job collecting relevant news articles, renaming them in sometimes controversial ways that force one to think (whether you agree with him or not). This promotes *critical* thinking and real debate -- which can lead to transformation of understandings on the part of all participants -- and these are things which this country could use a lot more of...

Patrick's site has become far too leftist for my taste also. I like the real estate news, but the Anti Republican anti Tea Party stuff is lame.

What the leftist political propaganda does is pigeon hole Patrick as just another "San Francisco liberal", and then one takes the whole web site far less serious.
Patrick you need to know that the political stuff really detracts from your web site.

Nomograph says

if you think the Patrick.net is too "leftist" for you taste, then obviously America is too "leftist" for you also

Damn right.

Next thing you know some radical right winger might suggest some seditious cost controls at public universities.

eteall says

screwed up and hit the "take it outside" link on his post by accident mods, please ignore, thanks

underwaterman says

Where are all the people that discuss the pros and cons of an opinion instead of ad hominem personal attacks?

Most people on the internet period do not want to discuss facts. They only want to spout opinions and then get offended when you disagree with them since their opinions are at least in part based on personal beliefs, feelings, and experience. So they often end up taking any disagreement as personal.

This is also very common if not the norm IRL too. People in general aren't really very good and debate or discussing beliefs or facts.

Particularly if they're irrational to begin with. You can't reason at all with those people.

That is why Mick is getting called out as asshole for instance.

If he's going to call me a Stalinist without justification, I'm going to call him an asshole.

Patrick, Once again, I don't know where you want to take the site, but from my perspective this is now showing petulance. I tend to prefer media channels where the owners and commentators take the high ground. Name calling ad hominem attacks don't move the dialog along in a productive way. Further, calling him an "asshole" is completely unrelated to the discussion. Yes, calling you "Ron Paulish" or "Stalinist" rather than explaining why he thinks some of your positions are like those of Ron Paul or Stalin is at best crude and minimally productive dialog, but at least those were somewhat related to the overall discussion.

underwaterman says

Another comment on your forums, I only tend to come here once and awhile because the level of discussions in my opinion is terrible. The loss of civility and intelligence is evident.

stop being a hypocrite and get off your high horse. saying there's a lack of intelligence is just as bad as an ad-hominen attack. get lost moron.

According to ZH, I'm part of the 1%. So it's a good thing I'm not involved in the protests: http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/who-are-1

A few of you have alluded to "following the rules". What are the rules?
Go to college and get a degree?
When you're out of a job, beg the gov't for assistance?

Are those the rules?
I don't have a degree. I chose to drop out of college after a year and a half, because I didn't believe that $40,000+ debt was justifiable when I lived in a country that permitted me to succeed without a degree. Was I right or was I wrong? I would say I'm right since I'm now part of the 1%.

I did not know that Gov't assistance was available to everyone; I thought it was only available to those that made under a certain amount of money in their previous job. I know better now; but I was last laid off in 2008 (in my mid-30s) and didn't know that I could get gov't assistance.

The "rules" I grew up with, thanks to my parents, were simple:
If you don't have a job, then you go find one.
If you can't find a job, then you create one. (Meaning you talk someone into creating it for you or else you start a business)

My current job requires a PhD. Yet, I have no degree.

The "rules" are those that you choose to follow. If you don't agree with the "rules" (as I did not), then create your own. You're free to succeed and you're free to fail. That is capitalism. I've been fired; I've been laid off. I got back up and moved forward anyway. When I was last laid off in 2008 (right when everything was starting to hit home and post-Lehman) it took me 2 days to find a new job. 2 days. Not because I have a degree (which I do not) and not because I have connections (I knew no one at the new company I went to work for). But simply because my parents taught me to watch out for and take care of myself. Make wise decisions. Go find your way and find it well. That kind of advice, while very simplistic, applies to every aspect of your life: criminal record, driving record, resume, positions, attitude, you name it.

Don't tell me Obama is a great leader because he fights for the 99%. No he doesn't. He fights for the 1% while making believe otherwise. Don't tell me any other leader fights for the 99%. It's impossible to fight for the 99% when you're deep in the 1%. I don't just mean deep in the pockets of the 1%, I mean you're deeply part of the 1%. How much are each of these people worth? That makes none of them part of the 99%. You're not going to voluntarily fight for those that oppose the amount of money you have; but if it'll get you re-elected, then you'll happily lie about it.

Obama
Biden
Boehner
Pelosi
Reid
Perry
Paul

They are all part of the 1%. Don't believe their lies. Instead vote for who you think is best qualified to make the right decisions for the country, not for the 99% they claim to support, because then you're just stuck following in another liar's speech.

Perhaps We Agree says

Further, calling him an "asshole" is completely unrelated to the discussion.

I'm trying to encourage use of the "Outside" forum where people can be as hostile as they want. It was a deliberate provocation to get him to use the Take It Outside link. Didn't work though!

Larry Patrick Baloney say

If Patrick doesn't mend his ways, this site will not remain a haven for real estate watchers, and will pass away.

It's been at least six years since patnet became popular - and it hasn't jumped the shark yet. That's because Patrick posts links to topical articles, provides us with a forum to spew whatever info we'd like, and rarely censors us.

There are funny comments, stupid comments, interesting comments, and - yes, some very offensive comments. Some of those have been deleted, many have not.

The cool thing is that Patrick supports all of this free speech. He hasn't given any ground rules, other than the "be nice" thing (which is recent - there have been some posters who've been unbelievably nasty up until now).

Mr. Baloney, might I invite you to continue posting scintillating comments? But if you truly believe that this place is doomed, feel free to jump ship.

LarryPatrickMaloney says

I have seen a tragic downturn in the quantity, and quality of real estate postings over the past few months.
Every day, it's 70-80% of left leaning, political rhetoric.

He's posting links to articles in the news. Perhaps your problem is with the media.

underwaterman says

Thank you for proving my point. You hit all 3: lack of intelligent discussion, loss of civility, and ad-hominem attack.

You are pretty funny. How about you post something intelligent to the forums and improve the debate? Instead of insulting the rest of the forum?