patrick.net

The rules are such that if you're rich you can already get a visa so this doesn't change too much.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-immigration-like-for-wealthy-rich-people

"A number of countries essentially will sell immigration access to the wealthy, by offering immigrant status either for a flat out fee, or for a promise to invest in a business and create jobs. The USA, Canada and many other nations have done this."

tts says

"A number of countries essentially will sell immigration access to the wealthy, by offering immigrant status either for a flat out fee, or for a promise to invest in a business and create jobs. The USA, Canada and many other nations have done this."

That paragraph really simplifies matters a bit. It's not as simple as just paying a flat out fee here, and it's not as simple as just promising to invest in a business. The process is more complicated than that, as I've said on previous threads.

The proposal made by those in Congress is silly. All it would do if foreigners jump on this is make the price of housing go up for everyone else. That's not really a good thing, as I said on another thread, but maybe it'll end up like Pebble Beach...

Still, I do question whether this would actually work. People would have to think buying a house here is a good investment and worth the money. Even if you live somewhere that's not as expensive as SF, LA, or NY, buying a cheaper house and then buying a rental property is property not worth it to many foreigners -- it's a hassle to have a rental property to them, even with a manager, and they might not be convinced it's a good investment. I think people often overassume the desire of rich foreigners to uproot and move here when they try to hype these things.

She says nearly every listing she's put on the market in San Marino "has had at least one full price cash offer from a buyer from mainland China."

Liar. Every used house salesman says stuff like this, but the statistics never bear it out.

I was just in HK/China, and I talked a lot with friends/relatives about buying property in the US. There is a grain of truth in these claims about foreigners buying stuff up in the US, but it is mostly hype. For those wealthy enough that money is NO object, sure, they would consider buying a house in the US as a status symbol and as somewhere to escape summer heat. For the majority of newly-wealthy Chinese, they see property as an investment, and buying in the US is a dumb idea to them. This is mostly due to the taxes levied on property here (and income if one were to consider moving here). From a financial standpoint, moving from China to the US is a really stupid move for someone with wealth, and most foreigners know this. Hence, there really aren't mobs of foreigners "snapping everything up" in the RBA. While open houses may be full of Indians & Chinese in higher-end areas, I would bet that most are naturalized US citizens that have worked hard and saved.

Some folks may recall a couple of previous posts from me that were of a somewhat contrary opinion. My opinion has changed now that I have actually gone and talked with some of these "wealthy foreigners."

bmwman91 says

While open houses may be full of Indians & Chinese in higher-end areas, I would bet that most are naturalized US citizens that have worked hard and saved.

Yes, and in fact Census statistics agree that a lot of people in so-called "fortress" cities are immigrants who have lived here for a long time. They might speak a funny language and people named Maggie Navarro who sells houses in San Marino might not understand their native language, but they're from here, for all intents and purposes.

bmwman91 says

I was just in HK/China, and I talked a lot with friends/relatives about buying property in the US. There is a grain of truth in these claims about foreigners buying stuff up in the US, but it is mostly hype. For those wealthy enough that money is NO object, sure, they would consider buying a house in the US as a status symbol and as somewhere to escape summer heat. For the majority of newly-wealthy Chinese, they see property as an investment, and buying in the US is a dumb idea to them. This is mostly due to the taxes levied on property here (and income if one were to consider moving here). From a financial standpoint, moving from China to the US is a really stupid move for someone with wealth, and most foreigners know this.

Yes, exactly. In order to keep gaining that wealth, those people have strong incentives to stay in China. What are they going to do, get an engineer job in Silicon Valley? People who got rich in China are either robber baron types (in which case there's little incentive to move to somewhere they might be subject to criminal enforcement action) or they are super smart and want to keep their money intact and don't necessarily see an overpriced suburban house that needs work as a good investment in a country that is having economic failings while China appears to be prospering (and let's be honest, many Americans and resident immigrants see housing as an investment too, whether wrongly or rightly).

Sure, people are far more mobile and can telecommute more, but there is a certain level of inertia to uprooting your family, especially when moving to a different country and when you need visas and other things. Some people say, "it's for American schooling," but that's a stupid rationale because if you're in China, you can pay for schooling better than a Cupertino public school at some elite private school (perhaps even a school for international kids).

By the way, a crappy house in the suburbs is not really a trophy property for a rich person when cost is no object -- even for Chinese and HKers that are used to living in cramped spaces. That said, even though many people claimed that lots of rich Chinese were buying condos in San Francisco in the overpriced luxury towers that were built recently, whether as pied a terre or otherwise, the high foreclosure and subsequent sales stats of those buildings have not borne that claim out either.

Some of you are probably going to cite the people who steal money from the Chinese government and need to get it the hell out of China, but how often does that really happen? Just because you read one article from a random news source that 1 person did this doesn't mean it's common.

By the way, the Chinese mafia types who hide out here typically don't buy property (because they don't want to be found!) and come here illegally usually (again, don't want a paper trail). They don't even necessarily feel safe in the US in some cases...

It's the "Damn foreigners are taking all our houses and women" mentality.

This would be an utterly useless bill. It's a residence visa, who would it appeal to? Foreign retirees aren't going to move here with this. Where would they get health care insurance? It would cost tens of thousands every year, if it were even available, for something they get free in their home countries. Working people aren't going to move based on this. It's a residence only visa. Truly wealthy people can get in already with a full EB-5 visa for investment so they don't need it. Foreign investors that aren't going to live here don't have any problems buying now. What's the point?

There are lots of websites popping up lately advising people that buying real estate in the US is a really bad investment. Typical example http://www.jenman.com.au/news_alert.php?id=109 There are lots of hucksters out there and people are getting burned left and right. It's a situation starting to really hitting the radar overseas, especially in the pacific rim and austrolasia.

TechGromit says

It's the "Damn foreigners are taking all our houses and women" mentality.

Someone needs to make an Antoine Dodson mashup about this.

BMWman91 is correct. There are lots of foreign-born people buying in SFBA, but, mainly people who came as students, worked in high tech, saved up, now can buy. The people buying now (age 35-45) weren't from rich families typically - they came with $1000 or less, got MS degrees and worked on research while living very cheaply, then got engineering jobs.

However, it is true that these people do buy these houses, and are willing and able to spend a higher % of income on housing because they spend less elsewhere.

I do know some people living in China who would like to buy US property for investment, but, SFBA is not a great place to own a rental. Plus this is rife with risk for getting ripped off for someone relying on a US property manager.

SiO2 says

I do know some people living in China who would like to buy US property for investment, but, SFBA is not a great place to own a rental. Plus this is rife with risk for getting ripped off for someone relying on a US property manager.

Agree, the Bay Area is not a great place to get cash flow overall, relative to many other areas.

It's bad enough living in another state with respect to getting ripped off by a property manager. You need to keep an eye on things. Imagine living in a foreign country and not necessarily being a native English speaker to boot. They'll run all over you.

SiO2 says

The people buying now (age 35-45) weren't from rich families typically - they came with $1000 or less, got MS degrees and worked on research while living very cheaply, then got engineering jobs.

If a SV company needs to hire an Engineer they are certianly doing so outside of the region/country.

Like Oracle below, Engineers are not important in the monthly running or results of many local SV companies. Many are working on long term projects which have no bearing on being close to company operations.

I dont expect Larry Ellison to walk downstairs into some fabled R&D floor of his towers and ask around "How are we doing for the Quarter, are we going to do hit our EPS numbers, how are the sales quotes for the top 3 regions doing. Is our OPX in line with forecasts?"

Like so many other CEOs its about having daily contact with Sales Admin, Legal and Accounting on how the business is doing.

I dont know why some think somehow R&D needs to be close to the mothership. Walk inside and its a completly different pricture than what many outsiders believe.

Oracle 10K

Employees
As of May 31, 2011, we employed approximately 108,000 full-time employees, including approximately 27,000 in sales and marketing, approximately 9,000 in
software license updates and product support, approximately 1,000 in the manufacturing of our hardware systems products, approximately 6,000 in hardware
systems support, approximately 25,000 in services, approximately 30,000 in research and development and approximately 10,000 in general and administrative
positions.

Of these employees, approximately 39,000 were located in the United States and approximately 69,000 were employed internationally. None of our
employees in the United States is represented by a labor union; however, in certain foreign subsidiaries workers’ councils represent our employees.

Item 2. Properties
Our properties consist of owned and leased office facilities for sales, support, research and development, consulting, manufacturing and administrative personnel.
Our headquarters facility consists of approximately 2.1 million square feet in Redwood City, California, substantially all of which we own. We lease our
principal internal manufacturing facility for our hardware systems products in Hillsboro, Oregon. We also own or lease other office facilities for current use
consisting of approximately 27.1 million square feet in various other locations in the United States and abroad. We believe our facilities are in good condition
and suitable for the conduct of our business. Approximately 6.5 million square feet, or 22%, of total owned and leased space is sublet or is being actively
marketed for sublease or disposition.

corntrollio says

Some of you are probably going to cite the people who steal money from the Chinese government and need to get it the hell out of China, but how often does that really happen? Just because you read one article from a random news source that 1 person did this doesn't mean it's common.

Could be, but also may be a legit transfer via legal means. That would mean it was the Foreign Company that has paid cash to house one of its employees who relocated. This is also true with US employees who relocate by have the US company foot the bill. There is also goverment offices such as consulates which have been set up (like in SF). Real owners being the foreign government and not personal as some may have ben mislead.

Hearing that some rich foreigner "personally" puchased a home may well be more suspect or certainly twisting the truth.

mdovell says

Shouldn't the visa process be more contingent on some given skill set of abilities

I know quite a few "male order brides", don't you?