patrick.net

If SubOink is happy with his purchase then great! My only comment is whether or not during the refinance of the mortgage, did it turn it into a recourse mortgage or not. If it did, then that is too high of a price to pay for me for the savings in my opinion. But I am not SubOink and don't have to live with his decision there. I want to be able to walk away if necessary. Not a criticism at all. Just something that people should consider when refinancing if it applies in their case and if it matters to them.

Regarding charts that have "turned flat". Any old technical investor knows that after a sharp and steady run up or down in prices that there is a period of accumulation/distribution where the prices pause. It pauses because a lot of people are guessing that it is the bottom (or top when prices are going up) or that the current prices make sense for a group of people and they are happy to be in the market at that level. When it is proved to not be the bottom (or top,) the prices continue in the same direction. Usually, that pause can be used as a measuring tool to mark the halfway point of the price move. I think we are in at the tail end of the halfway point and the prices are getting ready to move down again (in general.)

gameisrigged says

By the way, I don't believe you're doing as well with your purchase as all the bragging you're doing would indicate. If you were really in such great shape, why would you be so defensive about it and feel the need to start threads like this?
Yeah, you're just a real class act, aren't you, SubOink?

And if you weren't so jealous, you wouldn't feel the need to post on this thread.

(is my grammar OK? Please let me know)

There are some reasons to buy a house for yourself to live in. To buy rental properties to me is absurd, but each has his own taste which no one will change.
If you have a large income then the mortgage interest deduction makes the case for buying more compelling. The ability to reverse-mortgage your house in the future moreso.
The parts about buying a house for MOST people make it more tricky: few people can afford it without the income of a wife, partner, whatever word you use.
Changing your mind about 1. the wife partner 2. the house will cause you to lose money making any change about 1,2, or both 1&2.
My grandmother operated a business since the 1930's. She was probably the original "feminist", she was a very shrewd and interesting person. She rented her awesome house which was an ancient pre-revolution carriage house in NY State where she operated her antique business from. She lived later in another awesome place in a really beautiful town in her last years.
She was a lifelong renter because she hated debt too much probably. I found out only a few years ago it was she who lent my father the cash to buy the property with an ocean view in martha's vineyard. She had the cash, he didn't because he had a mortgage somewhere else to pay.
My grandmother was clever. So, after lending my father some dough, he built a house, had a pole line put in to have electricity, made us do landscaping, rock walls, etc. bust our butts and make a nice house for my grandmother to visit every summer she wished to.
Now I see my older brother married to a witch, while he carries a huge mortgage. Someone saw us together in a picture and said "Is he your father?"

clambo says

The parts about buying a house for MOST people make it more tricky: few people can afford it without the income of a wife, partner, whatever word you use.

I forgot where I heard it (most likely some conservative talk show) they were talking about how high housing prices are good because the marriage rate is declining and high housing prices will usually require dual incomes will encourage more people to get married.

tatupu70 says

gameisrigged says

By the way, I don't believe you're doing as well with your purchase as all the bragging you're doing would indicate. If you were really in such great shape, why would you be so defensive about it and feel the need to start threads like this?

Yeah, you're just a real class act, aren't you, SubOink?

And if you weren't so jealous, you wouldn't feel the need to post on this thread.

(is my grammar OK? Please let me know)

Ha, ha. I'll be "jealous" of a bunch of bragging bullshit artists who put up fake pictures of "themselves" and pretend to be financial geniuses when they can't even write a simple grammatically-correct sentence in English, when hell freezes over.

moldhaven says

bulletdodger says

I'd much rather have prices rising at historic norms while I save than have to wait on the sidelines watching the government do back flips to keep an overpriced asset class from dropping back to reality.

I'm pretty sure there aren't many here that are happy about the insane policies of our government. But, I'm left wondering why 95% of them have repeatedly voted either republican or democrat and will do so again in 2012?

Perhaps they are satisfied with those choices?

Or they don't want to throw their vote away voting for Nader or Ron Paul, neither of who will ever be elected?

clambo says

She was a lifelong renter because she hated debt too much probably. I found out only a few years ago it was she who lent my father the cash to buy the property with an ocean view in martha's vineyard. She had the cash, he didn't because he had a mortgage somewhere else to pay.
My grandmother was clever. So, after lending my father some dough, he built a house, had a pole line put in to have electricity, made us do landscaping, rock walls, etc. bust our butts and make a nice house for my grandmother to visit every summer she wished to.

I'm guessing grandma's real estate portfolio is now worth zero, but unless father bought in the last 5 years, he may have doubled his money - am I right?

Owning a home was probably the biggest pain in my ass ever, in fact, I would probably go through another military boot camp vs. owning again. I can't say I blame some people who like staying in one place, or who are 40+ and looking to lock in their rent payment...but it's not for me. Good luck to you though.

First Congrats!!!

Second why give anything that even seems like an "all clear signal"now?

third,..
you may never feel this out but the home and the loan really own you BTW. you work for the house (and the Bank.) some folks like this idea,...some don't,... some never realize its truth. Some even teach their children how to be debt slaves.

forth
ego is a bitch

fifth.
Debt is slavery! ( I would have just said congrats had you paid all cash)

Katy Perry says

Some even teach their children how to be debt slaves.

That's the difference between my kid and yours. When mine is 35 (hopefully not sooner) she'll live debt free in the house I paid for...yours will be renting and paying the landlord EVERY month...and exposed to some landlords BS while paying it.

Now THAT is slavery. I just wish my parents hadn't rented all their life...because the money is gone either way, except there is nothing left behind.

:)

I don't have kids Suboink

you sound like you think your house debt is an investment or something. it's not like it's increasing in price every month.

it's more like a used car That needs lots of work and stuff bought for it. That you bought with money you didn't even have. your agreed debt is worth more than the house BTW.

your not dumb enough to believe you"ll be actually paying the price you Realturd told you over 30 years. look at the bottom of your loan paper work. Thats the price you really agreed to pay.

There is a chance your house will never be worth that number. It's going to lose value like a used car every year for another decade at least IMHO. plus maints costs and taxes.

you're fooling yourself if you think you own anything other than debt and liability. that is not real security BTW. That's a pretty strong exposer to risk in this market IMHO. Renting is Not.

Maybe you could rent it out and break even after all costs maybe not. I bet not in your part of LA. I bet Rents are very close to your actual costs if you added everything up.

How can you call yourself anything other than a debt owner, or Home Borrower. I mean what is someone called that Payed %100 cash for a house. They're called an Owner also. Should we call them Super duper Owners or Extra special Owners now maybe? Quit fooling yourself. Your a debt slave that's why you go to work to Pay your Master

SubOink says

Katy Perry says

Some even teach their children how to be debt slaves.

That's the difference between my kid and yours. When mine is 35 (hopefully not sooner) she'll live debt free in the house I paid for...yours will be renting and paying the landlord EVERY month...and exposed to some landlords BS while paying it.

Now THAT is slavery. I just wish my parents hadn't rented all their life...because the money is gone either way, except there is nothing left behind.

:)

You actually mean you wish your parents had invested the money they saved by renting instead of spending it don't you. For most people it USED to be better to buy as a forced savings plan. With all the equity loan stuff that's not even close to true any more. Now far to many people simply blow the equity at any opportunity.

Katy Perry says

That's a pretty strong exposer to risk in this market, IMHO. Renting is Not.

Sure it is. What happens when rents rise?? That sure sounds like exposure to me...

Katy Perry says

Your a debt slave that's why you go to work to Pay your Master

And you go to work to pay your landlord. How is that any different?

people throw around the term debt slave but it usually applies to someone with unsecured debt.
Your house is not unsecured debt. If you feel enslaved you simply sell the house.

tatupu70 says

And you go to work to pay your landlord. How is that any different?

you're talking about someone who most like lives in their parent's basement.

Hauling junk from foreclosures doen't sound that bad. You can get lucky and end up with some really nice stuff. Heck, I would be willing to do it for FREE provided the hosues are in a rich neighborhood.

toothfairy says

If you feel enslaved you simply sell the house.

Sure, simply sell the house. Easy!

Realtors will line up around the corner to get the listing, and buyers will..., er, never mind.

BD

Katy Perry says

Thats the price you really agreed to pay.

And that is less than what you will pay in rent for the remainder of your life.

Don't forget, I can pay the house off at any point without a pre payment penalty. We are already doing principal only checks with the money that we are saving from the refy (the difference between mortgage and what rent used to be).

And with interest rates at 3.85% its really not that much. Less than what your rent increase is going to be over 30 years. Just go back in time.

You are lying to yourself. You simply don't understand how it works, do you?

Katy Perry says

There is a chance your house will never be worth that number

You don't get it, it does not matter if the house would be worth that number EVER, because I am not going to sell it. What don't you understand?? I am paying LESS than rent for the house. My "rent" is frozen. It will NEVER go up. And once the house is paid off, I do not have to pay to live anywhere anymore.

I am not ever planing on selling the house. Where should I live? on the street?

This is our home - period. Not an investment. And its cheaper than renting.

Have you ever calculated how much you are going to have WASTED over 30 years. If you rented my house for the going rate of 3000...you'd have thrown out 1mill in 30 years. That's without a rent increase in 30 years. Quite frankly, in 30 years from now, you will still be renting with your attitude and rent is going to be more like 6000/month - woops! Hope you will have a big retirement account to give to a landlord.

Who is the realturd here? :)

by the way, katy perry...

A house that sells for 550k right now, will cost you 955k over 30 years. (don't start with repair costs because then we also have to compare moving costs of somebody that rents and move's every 2 years etc etc)
I am not even considering the interest deduction into the 955k...because de facto its a lot less. (hard to say, depends on income and tax bracket) - more like 750k.

Is there a possibility that house prices will have only doubled in 30 years from now?

Let's say that house is worth exactly what you paid for it. So you sell it for 550k. Are you aware how much cheaper you have lived compared to renting?

Think of it this way. You ARE paying off a mortgage. Somebody else's.

:)

Owning is almost always cheaper in the long run. Mortages don't go up, and youe ventually own your house. That is not the case with renting.

HousingWatcher says

Owning is almost always cheaper in the long run. Mortages don't go up, and youe ventually own your house. That is not the case with renting.

Which is why it's no surprise that, give or take some unusual / temporary situations, the rich always own instead of rent.

True. Renters in rich neighborhoods are very rare. Renters are mostly limited to the inner cities and middle class suburbs... but mainly inner cities.

I don't get the continued argument.

If a house is cheaper than renting and the downpayment opportunity cost isn't an issue, I dunno what the problem is. I'll only note that for much of LA suburbs, as well as westside, south bay, and downtown, it's not yet cheaper to buy than rent.

tatupu70 says

Sure it is. What happens when rents rise??

you move. next question from smarty pants know it all?

HousingWatcher says

Owning is almost always cheaper in the long run.

yes but this assumes you live a real long time. what if not? two of my boys died before they were 30.

Nomograph says

Nothing wrong with that, but personally I only take advice (or guff) from people who have achieved some level of success that is worthy of admiration.

You are one hurtfull dude. you never even stop to think that a man might have some feelings? so much darkness out of someone says more about you than any one you try to cut down. i know your clowning but go easy I AM A SUCCESS as a business man a widower and a veteran so you can take my advise

SubOink says

hink of it this way. You ARE paying off a mortgage. Somebody else's.

well that is not how it is with my renters. face it chubby you are probably gonna loose your butt in the next few years. why carry on like this in public

JodyChunder says

Nomograph says

Nothing wrong with that, but personally I only take advice (or guff) from people who have achieved some level of success that is worthy of admiration.

You are one hurtfull dude. you never even stop to think that a man might have some feelings? so much darkness out of someone says more about you than any one you try to cut down. i know your clowning but go easy I AM A SUCCESS as a business man a widower and a veteran so you can take my advise

Take mine. Put a shirt on.

JodyChunder says

you move. next question from smarty pants know it all?

Funny thing--usually when your rent goes up, the rent is rising everywhere.

tatupu70 says

JodyChunder says

you move. next question from smarty pants know it all?

Funny thing--usually when your rent goes up, the rent is rising everywhere.

That's what I thought too but apparently there is a place way out in the high desert...called VIctorville. Rents fall there when rents are rising everywhere else. It's a desert thing.

:)

JodyChunder says

SubOink says

hink of it this way. You ARE paying off a mortgage. Somebody else's.

well that is not how it is with my renters. face it chubby you are probably gonna loose your butt in the next few years. why carry on like this in public

...why sit shirtless holding a gun up in a chair in public? :)

lol @this thread

edvard2 says

tatupu70 says

Yes and no. If you own your home, you eliminate a major retirement expense. That definitely creates wealth.

Maybe. If you had taken the same money spent on a house and instead stuck it in stocks you would actually be better off... to pay for your future old folks home- where we'll all wind up anyway.

Yes because stocks were such a great investment this decade.

tatupu70 says

Funny thing--usually when your rent goes up, the rent is rising everywhere.

usually he says. prove it smarty. not at all true. you are making an ASSumption.

Bigsby says

Take mine. Put a shirt on.

i am wearing the shirt God stitched up for me. None better buster. be so uptight

SubOink says

Rents fall there when rents are rising everywhere else. It's a desert thing.

i am property manager with 14 properties in California, Louisiana and Texas. Rents do not follow the continuous upward path like what you think. Staiblity is what I am after. You tell yourself that t o make yourself feel good about a dumb purchase. I do it to pal., we all do it oinker but we dont all take to hollering about it.

Victorville is special

Los Angeles Owner says

hat definitely creates wealth.

not unless you a property manager like your big brother Jody

Mark D says

lol @this thread

It is fun to keep it alive...LOL

JodyChunder says

usually he says. prove it smarty. not at all true. you are making an ASSumption.

You want me to prove the concept of inflation? Really?

Google median rent and I think you'll find many sources that show that rent increases are pretty much in line with inflation.

if you really want to brag. Post your purchase price and your location. Come back regularly to gloat.

show us the money.. everything else is just blah blah blah same old rehashed arguments I've heard from Realtors the last ten years.