patrick.net

These jobs are mosty union, and if they aren't then it's usually easy to form a local. I'm a member of the machinists union (IAM). Union membership has never been lower nationwide since their advent. However this will change as high tech manufacturing comes back to the US. This should lead to a much stronger economy overall, as union workers secure higher wages which means more people with the means to "stimulate" the economy as our Dear Leader Obama keeps exhorting us all to do. As naive as his domestic policies have been, he begins to show promise with his new push to normalize corporate taxes and provide incentive for American manufacturing. This is the true way back from the brink. America works when Americans work.
Unions can't do the jobs without members though, so more trained machinists are needed before they can be hired. Google my info and read the articles yourself.
As for recession proof jobs, let's just say that my income in this profession has been uninterrupted by the worst recession in four generations. Many people were not so fortunate. I give to charities that help those down on their luck, but I'd prefer people to have jobs and self respect. Bringing back manufacturing will achieve this.

xlr8 - let me be the first on this thread to express my empathy. Educational debt is a debilitating albatross. I should know, I've got a huge amount too (mine is for law school and some undergrad, currently about $130K).

Six years out of law school I make about $105K/annum. The legal market being what it is, I am quite happy to have a job that pays decently. I know PLENTY of others with more debt, and lower salaries. Then again, I know others whose parents foot the entire bill for undergrad and law school, and some of these folks even landed coveted BIGLAW jobs at $160K starting. (And yet they still complain about money....)

For the first few years after law school, by necessity, I paid the minimum monthly amount on my loans. I have upped that amount in the past year, so more goes to principal and i xlr8 (sorry) total payoff. I've seen nothing in this thread to suggest any other way to go.

I'm assuming that your loans are private (non-federal)? Because the interest on fed loans should be about half of what you are paying. I've got both fed and private loans - the fed rate, after making consistent payments for soemthing like 5 years and participating in direct debit - is like 1.75%. And that rate is locked for the life of the loan. So i make minimum payments on that, and will until it is enitrely paid off (unless I find a pot of gold, etc).

My private loans are at 2.75%, but that rate will rise when interest rates rise. Like others have said, you should look into consolidating or switching the loan servicer to get a better rate.

As I am sure you know, unless you make less than approx $72K (or is it $77K?), your student loan interest is NOT deductible. Plus, as others have noted, the loans are non-dischargeable in BK. Seems to me paying them off (or at least significantly DOWN) is your most prudent play.

I like the advice of clambo best. Do both - make more than the minimum payments to the extent possible, AND save for retirement. It is quite true that by the time you pay that $180K off entirely, you won't have too many earning years left. I know bc i am in that same position.

It is not apretty situation however you look at it - but honestly, I'm proof that you can still have a decent std of living while paying off those loans, if you are frugal in all areas of your life and you manage to earn even a decent salary (I'd say given the circs that would have to be $100K).

Just don't court another albatross in the way of a huge mortgage. I rent cheap and use the difference to pay those $#%&*!!! loans.

all best

wthrfrk80 says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Funny how everyone thinks 180K is a huge amount to invest in someones education and the increase in life quality that comes with it, but look at a $1million dollar cottage in agreement. Good schools, short commute, safe neighborhood, etc. You are still buying a run down PIS people!

Who the f*** pays a million bucks for a cottage? That cottage better be constructed of pure gold...

My goodness, I'm in the wrong business. I should get into money lending.

Here is a nice cottage for 1.1m. 2/2 1288sqft on a 5000sqft lot. I built a bigger cottage with my Dad when I was 15 yrs old. It took us 2 months of hard work. Just the two of us and some sporadic help from friends a few times. I think the full cost was in the 30k range (probably 60k in today's dollars). 1.1m! Crazy nuts. (I mean sellers and buyers).

http://www.movoto.com/real-estate/homes-for-sale/CA/Los-Altos/999-Loraine-Ave-100_81149168.htm

I'll buy your $60k cottage. How much does it cost to buy the land on which it sits?

bg says

I got mine for cheap, but I totally agree with you. PhD is overrated. Just get your dang MD and move on. Intellectutalism, blah, blah, blah...

Surprised to see similar comments, but maybe mid-day on the internet is not representative of the PhD-having community. My friends, and wife, with PhDs seem to be doing quite well with income associated with their profession and study. So there's another adecdote in a positive light for getting higher degrees of learning.

Of course, understanding is also very valuable when considering quality of life, so getting more is its own value. But that's the idea the Greeks brought us way back when, right? So that's old news. Don't wait until you're old to think it's not a house that makes life happy.

wthrfrk80 says

I'll buy your $60k cottage. How much does it cost to buy the land on which it sits?

It is a family cottage and was built not for profit. Even if you gave your first born it wouldn't be enough. Unless your kid was education in the incredible Cupertino schools. That changes everything. ;)

There's plenty of cottages in the cape area that might be around that price. A friend of mines parents bought one and found out the hard way it really isn't an area to live in year round (basement only accessible though bulkhead doors outside), heating elements were just holes in the floor covered by registers etc.

Cottages might be fine for a weekend but it just isn't the right thing to live in year round.FunTime says

Surprised to see similar comments, but maybe mid-day on the internet is not representative of the PhD-having community. My friends, and wife, with PhDs seem to be doing quite well with income associated with their profession and study. So there's another adecdote in a positive light for getting higher degrees of learning

I'd say this largely depends on the field. In hard science sure...if not then it can be iffy. Outside of academia and some trade publications that few would read there isn't that much out for jobs in non hard science ph.d degrees. Look around at who is quoted and working where. Is there actually private demand for some jobs at that level? Just because someone likes a subject does not automatically mean they want to teach it.Tenure can be nice don't get me wrong but it is quite controversial to say the very least. I know of some institutions that have different contracts for non tenured..one is one year and the other is three. At the one at three some have been there for twenty years and not earned tenure (they aren't on the track but why go on it if 25% don't make it?)

mdovell says

I'd say this largely depends on the field. In hard science sure...if not then it can be iffy.

Yeah, I agree. I was primarily responding to the general comments about PhDs and pointing out, like you, that it's helpful to recognize general statements. theoakman also posted about Chemistry and Chemical Engineering, which is what my wife and her friends studied, also Materials Sciences and Engineering. Many of them were able to get cool, high paying jobs immediately out of grad school.

my plan is best.
Run up private,credit card,home loan debt to get CASH to pay off student loans.
Declare BK.
Freedom!

Everytime i meet some poor hard working dope with 100k+ in student loans I think of all the bubble era flippers who pulled out hundreds of thousands in HELOC money from thier flips/houses and blew it on toys (and more real estate). THey all went BK are are walking free.

But somehow if you 'get a loan for school' you will get no freedom/debt forgiveness? this seems wrong. inheritenly unfair.

I could get a business loan for 200k to open a dildo factory, it will fail within a year due to cheap chinese dildos 'puttin me outta bidness' THEN I can declare BK and walk free. But these people cant? ????? WTF???

Anyway its thier own dumb fault, have to be brutal to get ahead in modern CCCP/US.