patrick.net

Would you like a napkin?

I think that picture is pretty much correct.

I agree too. It's amazing really (and terrifying if you think about it), the mind control that goes on.

Is that TPB on the left ?

Oh and all of Obama's masters he shills for, are broke peons huh?

More pure BS, the Liberals are just as crooked if not more so than any and all of the Republicans. The Liberals give fraud and deceit a new name. "Change".

Obama's definitely taking big bux from Goldman, Chase, etc. And it looks like he sold out the public by killing the public option.

But in general, Republicans are far more aggressive about demanding ever more ridiculously unfair wealth redistribution -- upward!

Will any Republican ever question why it is that billionaires pay only 15% on unearned income (capital gains, dividends) while really productive people who actually earn their income pay 35%?

None. Never.

If any Republican dares to mention the ridiculous screwing of the public via ultra-low taxes on the ultra-rich, Grover Norquist will tie him to a stake and set the fire himself.

At least Democrats openly admit that the middle class is getting raped daily by the upper class.

Obama's definitely taking big bux from Goldman, Chase, etc. And it looks like he sold out the public by killing the public option.

But in general, Republicans are far more aggressive about demanding ever more ridiculously unfair wealth redistribution -- upward!

How do you quantify that? Or is it just your Liberal gut feeling?
I guess one thieving kiniving cutthroat scallywag, is as good as another. You folks seem to have a better grading system for people I would rather not be in office.

At least Democrats openly admit that the middle class is getting raped daily by the upper class.

Well said.

Why is it so hard for the non-rich right wingers to comprehend that if the rich pay much more progressive rates, then the deficit gets under control and the government corruption is more limited.

Why ?

Because in that case the ones who influence laws and government spending (these people are all relatively high income) actually have to pay higher taxes for that. They would watch each other. It would be: hey, if I don't get money for my friends, then you don't get yours. And they all would be in that mode because the impact on their own personal finances.

As it is, we have borrow and spend (not tax and spend). So the environment is: you get yours as long as I get mine too.

Here's the rub. If we pay our bills, through higher taxes on the rich, and with fiscally sound policies, this means we have to make the tough decisions. And how can the republicans win elections then ?

SO let me do the Math here. IF we do things right, the rich pay higher taxes, and the republicans can't win elections.

Let's face it, we have a fucked up system.

Honest Abe says: "In other words, I'm a troll."

Will any Republican ever question why it is that billionaires pay only 15% on unearned income (capital gains, dividends) while really productive people who actually earn their income pay 35%?

No one here is a billionair but anyone of us, including you Patrick pay only 15% in capital gains.

You should have taken some business classes early in your career.

At least Democrats openly admit that the middle class is getting raped daily by the upper class.

Your Hero!

http://www.youtube.com/embed/iW5qKYfqALE

thomas.wong1986 says

No one here is a billionair but anyone of us, including you Patrick pay only 15% in capital gains.

C'mon, don't play stupid.

Almost none of my income is capital gains.

Almost all the income of billionaires is capital gains.

If I work hard and actually produce something valuable and create a lot of income, my tax rate goes up to 35%.

If a billionaire does absolutely nothing useful and gets another billion in unearned income taken from the work of other people, he still pays only 15%.

You're telling me that's fair, and helps balance the budget?

Ah, I misunderstood. I think you're actually telling me that you're just like the guy on the right in the picture, so you're happy to exploit TPB and Honest Abe.

OK then.

TPB says

How do you quantify that?

I'm talking about Paul Ryan's new tax plan, that would cut billionaires' tax rate to literally 0% and make you take up the slack.

I don't really care if you impoverish yourself by voting Republican, but I don't want to get dragged down with you.

Honest Abe says

marquis - no substance to your post

I disagree. I think it's American politics in a nutshell.

C'mon, don't play stupid.

Wow.. you dont own stocks, bonds, mutual funds, or own capital equipment in your own business (Pnet.com) ?????

What do you do as savings, investments, retirement account..
or should i even ask ?

If a billionaire does absolutely nothing useful and gets another billion in unearned income taken from the work of other people, he still pays only 15%

No he gives up his wealth, by paying cash for an interest in ownership.. it may or may not have any gain and mayhave losses. so your term of "unearned income" which also fails to include losses is misguided.

If you want to talk of "unearned income".. your talking about royalties and passive RE investments.

You're telling me that's fair, and helps balance the budget?

You want to solve government spending addictions...

start by taking the drugs (taxes) away from govt...
problem solved..

What a bullshit photo. If the rich guy made his money himself, he is maybe a Republican unless he is an entertainer. If the rich guy inherited his money, he is also a bleeding heart liberal.
The average man who has a job and pays taxes is a Republican unless he belongs to a minority group. They are not drooling slobs with suspenders chewing tobacco.
Let's have the average Democrat:
All people on welfare, food stamps, SSI, Sec. 8 housing.
All people seeking affirmative action and other advantages over others.
All obese circus freaks (Michael Moore), children of aliens (Bill Maher) and conmen who just claim to give a shit about the poor (Clinton, Kennedy, etc.)
Dilettantes who believe that the central planning of our economy and life by a bunch of guys in DC will work (it doesn't).
Do-gooder twerps who believe they know best and therefore will legislate you follow their advice. Bloomberg, NYC trans-fat. Santa Cruz, CA, plastic bag ban, San Francisco, happy meal toy ban.
Nerdish weaklings who resent real men who make a success out of their life and have 1. played sports 2. snagged chicks 3. made money 4. had adventures and fun WITHOUT begging, groveling, a sucking up to A. daddy B. a boss C. women.
You girlie men liberals should be ashamed trying to fuck up the good things we have in the USA. You've pretty well ruined California already.

The "rich" people I know got that way not by screwing anyone. Exceptions exist, like Bill Gates, but I never bought a copy of Office so he never got my dough. I know rich people who have worked, saved, and risked their sweat and blood into a business which means they took huge risks compared to a guy who buys a mutual fund.
The group who do get rich with little work are lawyers, who of course you can avoid usually if you live your life carefully.
A rich guy keeping his money and not letting Uncle Sam take from him is not screwing anyone, he is keeping his own money.
Do rich sub idiot professional athletes screw over anyone? Do rich talentless entertainers? Some fools paid to see them or listen to them, but that was the fool's fault.
Everyone should be able to keep the fruits of their labor, and those who cannot (blind, brain damaged, paraplegic, etc.) should be helped by society.
Everyone else: Fuck or walk.

I think that picture is pretty much correct.

I'd say it isn't complete. The rich guy should be shown to have the D's and R's in his pocket.

TPB says

Oh and all of Obama's masters he shills for, are broke peons huh?

More pure BS, the Liberals are just as crooked if not more so than any and all of the Republicans. The Liberals give fraud and deceit a new name. "Change".

William E Baughb

We've already talked about this. You can't Obama a Liberal because he doesn't push those sorts of policies.

The SOB likes Regan, has cut taxes far lower than in Regan's day, and wants to try and cut SS and Medicare, not even Bush dreamed of doing that. Add into that his foreign policy and well you pretty much have a more suave darker skinned Bush.

I think that picture is pretty much correct.

Because of our screwed up, money-based election process both parties are owned by the country's moneyed sectors (financial, insurance, pharmaceutical, etc.) So, on the topics which most affect us all financially to the tune of trillions of dollars of debt placed on our backs along with overpayment for goods and services and loss of jobs to slave labor nations, both parties are effectively identical, both parties are all for corporate "socialism" (crony capitalism). The only real difference is the Repugs play the bigotry/religious fanatic card. Guns, gays and god, the hot button issues that get people off the sofa and to the polls while they're being financially raped by both parties in any number of ways.

I take the George Carlin approach to this whole issue (definitely NSFW):

http://www.youtube.com/embed/efKguI0NFek

Republicans vote based on fear of the "other."

Democrats are a collection of various types of "other" and naturally fear the Republicans.

Both get fucked over economically as the elites of both parties do the bidding of the top 0.1%.

thomas.wong1986 says

You want to solve government spending addictions...

start by taking the drugs (taxes) away from govt...
problem solved..

They've been pushing that since Reagan, and it hasn't worked yet.

finehoe says

They've been pushing that since Reagan, and it hasn't worked yet.

True. Because even Republican presidents like to buy votes: Medicare Part D.

Honest Abe says

Libs main weapon is to insult and disparage others.

Then play Victim when it all backfires.

wthrfrk80 says

Republicans vote based on fear of the "other."

Shit the Democrats invented "Anyone is better than this"
Now that the "Chickens are coming home to roost" on Obama's Fro.
You Libs are finally starting to see the light.
Better than THIS isn't enough. We need better than THEM.

I don't really care if you impoverish yourself by voting Republican, but I don't want to get dragged down with you.

A report came out today, that post Barney Frank, the TBTF banks have never been more convoluted and a jumbled mess. It would be harder today to wind down the TBTF banks than before Banking reform was passed.

Don't talk to me about politicians and their MONIED masters, until you're at least ready to be honest about the whole picture. This noise is exactly why Independents can't enter picture. We're doomed to this two corrupt party system. One as equally corrupt as the next.
Since we can't have a real political discussion on what is best for America, a real candidate that middle independent. Then I'll choose red one. We're just playing political Good Guys and Bad Guys, OK I'll be the fucking Bad Guy, and you can be the Good Guy. But at the end of the day, at least "I" realize we're only playing fantasy ass tickling, and it's all just a fucking illusion. The truth is, they are all Bad Guys out for them selves and their masters.

Now give me one with an eye patch and a wooden leg.

Almost all the income of billionaires is capital gains.

If I work hard and actually produce something valuable and create a lot of income, my tax rate goes up to 35%.

If a billionaire does absolutely nothing useful and gets another billion in unearned income taken from the work of other people, he still pays only 15%.

Yep. I love analogies in this case.

Let's say an elite Neurosurgeon performs many brain surgeries, and teaches dozens of med students, saves a hundred lives. Over the course of two years, he makes about a million dollars in salary.

He is taxed at 35%

Let's say a Hedge Fund invests $300,000 to buy a mansion. Two years later, for market reasons mostly beyond his control, the mansion is sold for 1M.

He's taxed at 15%.

How does that encourage productivity? By what ethical calculus is that fair?

I think that picture is pretty much correct.

Patrick, I don't feel that I'm a victim.

My wife and I came from working class backgrounds in Ohio. We both graduated from the same state university people used to call "Hilltop High" because of its reputation as a commuter school. I took five and a half years to get through school, she did a Bachelors and Masters in four because she had scholarships, loans and an assistantship.

As economically bad as things usually are in the Rust Belt, we don't see the sort of whining and complaining and gnashing of teeth there that we see out here. Why? There are too many overeducated, overcredentialed, arrogant personalities here who think they know better than everyone else and who think "the system" (whatever the hell that means) is trying to oppress them and owes them something.

As I keep telling you, she and I come from fairly modest backgrounds and we're doing just fine.

Thanks for the great pic! A great morning laugh! I believe Obama is pretty much a corporate shill but the Republican party has been over taken by those completely deranged by greed and ignorance.

thomas.wong1986 says

start by taking the drugs (taxes) away from govt...

Already done. We have lower income tax rates now than any other time in the last 60 years. It's just that rates for the ultra rich plummeted much more than the rates for people who actually work.

How well has that been working out for the economy?

ThreeBays says

Everything else other than medicare and SS are chump change.

You forgot defense spending!

I agree that Medicare costs have to be capped. SS pays for itself and will for the next 20 years with no problems.

clambo says

All people on welfare, food stamps, SSI, Sec. 8 housing.

Thank you for being a perfect illustration of the guy on the left!

clambo says

The "rich" people I know got that way not by screwing anyone.

You've never met anyone from Wall Street it seems.

tts says

The rich guy should be shown to have the D's and R's in his pocket.

Yes, they're both in his pocket, but the Republican cut a hole in the rich guy's pocket and is actively fellating him. And swallows too.

TPB says

You Libs are finally starting to see the light.

And thank you too for perfectly illustrating the guy on the left.

rootvg says

There are too many overeducated, overcredentialed, arrogant personalities here who think they know better than everyone else

Yet another illustration of the guy on the left! "Those damn whiny libruls", right?

rootvg says

Patrick, I don't feel that I'm a victim.

Making a lot of money from your own effort? Excellent! But gee, how come your tax rate is much higher than the rate of people who make much more than you without any effort? Could it have something to do with getting laws written to protect the rich by distracting voters with their prejudices about liberals, socialists, gays, minorities, etc?

Yes, that's exactly how it happened. Divide and rule.

All I want is for the game not to be rigged.

thomas.wong1986 says

No he gives up his wealth, by paying cash for an interest in ownership.. it may or may not have any gain and mayhave losses.

No, he doesn't "give up" his wealth. He passively invests money with the hope of a big return taken from the work of other people.

But anyway, he also gets to deduct 100% of his losses from his gains. You forgot that part.

Say, has anyone made a comment and have it disappear? I thought I made this comment before, but don't see it. Maybe there's some bug.

The problem is not that we have a rigged system.

The problem is that, due to immigration and a few other issues, we now have a pie that's too small and our economy is becoming more competitive. If we shut the borders that would go away. Don't bother calling me a racist. Even if it were true you couldn't do anything about it and you're not gonna change me and being me works really damn well. Go bother someone who gives a fuck.

I'll say it again. If you go to the south, you don't hear all this constant whining and complaining and gnashing of teeth. My high school friends in Atlanta are doing just fine. My high school friends in the Tampa Bay area are doing just fine. My sister and brother-in-law in SW Ohio are doing just fine. My cousin in Pennsylvania who never attended college is working for a company that's had him traveling all over the world.

Yes, Republicans tend to run on wedge issues. Why? Because it works. Most of us do not agree with the leftist social agenda. What to do about it for the future of the Democratic party outside California and Massachusetts? GET RID OF IT. We do not live in the United States of California and Massachusetts. Yes, homosexuals, leftists, bearded weenie academics, malcontents and emotionally unstable personalities control a lot of what happens politically in San Francisco and places nearby because there's too goddamn much money here...but THAT'S IT.

Americans want their country back. It's a center-right nation...not a rightist or leftist nation but center-right. This is the way it is.

rootvg says

Patrick, I don't feel that I'm a victim.

My wife and I came from working class backgrounds in Ohio. We both graduated from the same state university people used to call "Hilltop High" because of its reputation as a commuter school. I took five and a half years to get through school, she did a Bachelors and Masters in four because she had scholarships, loans and an assistantship.

As economically bad as things usually are in the Rust Belt, we don't see the sort of whining and complaining and gnashing of teeth there that we see out here. Why? There are too many overeducated, overcredentialed, arrogant personalities here who think they know better than everyone else and who think "the system" (whatever the hell that means) is trying to oppress them and owes them something.

As I keep telling you, she and I come from fairly modest backgrounds and we're doing just fine.

This one time this one guy worked hard and got rich so shut up Patrick!

Patrick your blog has jumped the shark in the last year when you starting putting politics into it.

Its impossible to change someones mind about politics. But you CAN get people to look at rent/vs buy differently and how to handle the RE transaction.

You REALLY REALLY need to stop all the politicking - its hurting the patrick.net brand..... Pissing off 50% of your vistors for no reason other than 'politics is your hobby' is financially stupid. You might be having fun....but its killing your blog and name brand....

If the dems are so great why is pot still illegal? same party.
Why are the banks still in charge? You can STILL get a zero down home loan (from the feds). The dems are terrible only Rob Paul is honest....so he cant win.

If was paying patrick to run this site I would fire him! haha.
Imagine you go to the store to buy something and get hit with political BS and nonsense! unacceptable!

I vote democrat because I'm lazy, don't want to work, expect a handout and want to take from those who actually work. I refuse to contribute and want to be rewarded for it. I want a bunch of services paid for by other people's money.

And also, I want the government to run my life because I'm too stupid to do it myself.

I agree with the above comment.

Patrick what the hell are you doing?!?!

You have managed to piss me off as well.

I was born into a very poor family. I did not enjoy living on Ramon noodles and having to wear second hand clothes growing up. So I decided to change that when I turned 18.

Over the years I have woked my tail off buying, renovating, renting, and selling real estate. A number of these deals required me to risk everything I owned. I now have a multimillion dollar net worth. So I guess according to you and the democrats I am now one of those rich bad guys and I need to PAY.

I have already payed hundreds of thousands in taxes, yet you seem to think I need to be punished even more and pay millions (or better yet how about everything I own) to the government. Only to see them squader it on useless programs and give it away to people that don't desrve it and haven't woked a day in their pathetic lives.

Should there not be some kind of incentive to take a risk? (a "lower" tax rate) A paycheck is "safe" and should be treated as such.

Are you aware of the fact that over 50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax. How fair is that??

Patrick, are you willing to risk everything to earn more than a paycheck? And if you do, is it fair that in exchange for that risk you should have to 58.5% (35% Federal Tax, 15% Self employment tax, and 8.5% State Tax) of whatever you earned through blood sweat and tears to the Government? Let's not forget about poperty taxes and the "Franchise Tax" on any LLC or Corporation(The tax based on gross income - you are taxed whether or not you make a profit in the State of California)

So, please, do me favor and quit telling me I don't already pay my "fair share".

I think we need the old "FDR Democrats/New Deal Coalition" back. Sans the racism.

I tend to agree that the Democrat's embrace of the New Left 60's radicals alienated much of the country. That's how we got the Reagan Democrats. The 1968 riots at the Chicago Democrat convention were are real turning point in the political direction of the nation. That was the beginning of the end of the New Deal Coalition.

Why did the Dems embrace the New Left radicals? Because that's where the money is. (Hmmm...I'm noticing a pattern here.) Your average blue collar Democrat in the midwest doesn't have as much money as a trust-funder or software executive living in San Francisco.

A lot of people vote Republican because they can't stomach the radical base of the Democrat party.

Of course these days, the Republican base has gone batshit crazy too.

Seems like we have two crazy parties under the control of the 0.1% that pretend to care while laughing all the way to the bank (assuming they don't already own said bank).

rootvg says

The problem is that, due to immigration and a few other issues, we now have a pie that's too small and our economy is becoming more competitive.

Let me smack you with some facts. The US economy (as shown by real GDP growth) has grown roughly threefold (317%) since 1970. (4.2T to 13.3T) Over the same time period, US population has grown from 200M to 313M. This is roughly a 1.5 times increase (157%)

That is GDP per capita in real dollars was roughly $21,000 in 1970 and it is roughly $42,500 today.

The size of the pie has grown at roughly twice the rate as the number of people eating it. Do you still think immigration (population growth) is the cause of increased competition? How do you explain that?

Your point is there is a "crowding out" of wealth caused by immigration is flatly wrong. There is a "crowding out" but it is by the ultra wealthy. A larger share of the pie is going to a smaller percentage of the population

The picture in the OP is a visual depiction of the problem. He is, quite plainly, too stupid to know what is good for him. I wouldn't have a problem with this except because he and I get the same number of votes, his stupidity is actually making things worse for me too.

The guy on the left is the reason why I have more education yet less job security and a lower salary (in real terms) than my father did when he was my age. The guy on the left is the reason why it is accepted that I will work longer until eligible for SS and medicare (if they exist at all) than my father will have to. The guy on the left is the reason why students today need $50k in higher education to be "qualified" for the jobs their parents did straight out of high school. The guy on the left is the reason health care costs more monthly than my home, car, and student loan payments combined.

The guy on the left is does all of this by being so ignorant about who his real enemies are. Of course all of his friends in the South don't complain...they are the decendents of the people dumb enough to be convinced that fighting the Civil War was about state's rights and not about protecting the property rights of a few rich slave owners. Stupid breeds stupid.

I wonder if the guy on the left is a depiction of you. It sure looks like it based upon your immigration argument.

Don't bother calling me an ELITIST. Even if it were true you couldn't do anything about it and you're not gonna change me and being me works really damn well. Go bother someone who gives a fuck.

Talking politics is bad for business.

I won't be donating to patrick.net again until this becomes a REAL ESTATE ONLY site.

If he were to cram this site with football stories or porn it would be equally annoying. People do not come here for politics.

AND ANYWAY its the dems 'keeping a floor under house prices' (exact Obama quote!!!!!) Hows does Patrick reconcile the dems proping up RE massively with never ending creative gimmicks to make patrick a permanent renter? (I know....healthcare.....zzzzzzz)

The sad part is talking politics is more of a waste of time than porn...... why why why why patrick?!?!

Don't think I'm such a great fan of the Democrats either! They were the bigger Fannie/Freddie government-guaranteed debt supporters, which was of course a disaster.

As for covering politics, the housing bubble is politics. Always has been.