patrick.net

Here's another way to look at it:

Fact: Red cars are more likely to get pulled over by cops

Fact: A red colored car will cost you more money in speeding tickets

Therefore, we can all agree that the color red is costlier than the color blue?

If you paint your house red, will you be more likely to get pulled over by a cop? And same thing if you wear red pajamas? Red is bad, red is bad!

wthrfrk80 says

There's no question blacks were the most oppressed in America, historically.

Are they still actively oppressed? Or is a lot of the poverty just "inertia"?

I really don't know, I'm just an average "white guy."

Funny question: "Are they still actively oppressed?" You mean it's okay to oppress them passively? Like the way a white HR hiring clerk might disregard applications from black people behind closed doors? They are most certainly still oppressed, though not as much as before.

housingcasino4865 says

Like the way a white HR hiring clerk might disregard applications from black people behind closed doors?

If they do that, shame on them.

But do they, in fact, do this? Is there evidence for it? Anything is possible, but the courts don't argue cases based on "mere possibility."

wthrfrk80 says

housingcasino4865 says

Like the way a white HR hiring clerk might disregard applications from black people behind closed doors?

If they do that, shame on them.

But do they, in fact, do this? Is there evidence for it? Anything is possible, but the courts don't argue cases based on "mere possibility."

Of course they do. I don't like saying this, but have you ever socialized with people in and outside of your local community or work? See this:

http://career-advice.monster.com/in-the-office/workplace-issues/do-black-names-matter/article.aspx

"In the movie Coach Carter, a pregnant teenage African American girl is asked what she plans to name her baby. "Loquisha," she says. Her friend replies, "Well, she might as well have the name 'Food Stamps.'"

The point is clear: Loquisha is a "black" name, and names affect destiny. That premise gained scientific backing with "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination," an MIT-University of Chicago study conducted in 2001 and 2002 and published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) in 2003. Researchers sent 5,000 fictitious resumes for sales, clerical and customer service positions in Chicago and Boston. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for initial interviews than those with African American-sounding ones. The racial gap was uniform across occupation, industry and employer size."

And keep in mind, the study was done in Boston and Chicago. Both are liberal. Now just imagine what it must be like in Conservative cities.

housingcasino4865 says

That premise gained scientific backing with "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination," an MIT-University of Chicago study conducted in 2001 and 2002 and published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) in 2003. Researchers sent 5,000 fictitious resumes for sales, clerical and customer service positions in Chicago and Boston. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for initial interviews than those with African American-sounding ones. The racial gap was uniform across occupation, industry and employer size."

Wow that sucks. I thought that kind of thing was relegated to the past.

I'm in engineering where there are just as many Indians and Asians as "white" people. It's true that there aren't many "blacks" where I work, though. There weren't too many black folks majoring in Engineering either, at least where I went to school (Erie, PA). Sad.

housingcasino4865 says

Here's another way to look at it:
Fact: Red cars are more likely to get pulled over by cops
Fact: A red colored car will cost you more money in speeding tickets
Therefore, we can all agree that the color red is costlier than the color blue?
If you paint your house red, will you be more likely to get pulled over by a cop? And same thing if you wear red pajamas? Red is bad, red is bad!

Maybe that's the problem.

Red = Danger (that's why stop signs are red and red means stop)

Black = Evil (the Black Plague, Black Magic, The Dark Side, Darth Vader's costume is black, etc)

wthrfrk80 says

Wow that sucks. I thought that kind of thing was relegated to the past.

I'm in engineering where there are just as many Indians and Asians as "white" people. It's true that there aren't many "blacks" where I work, though. There weren't too many black folks majoring in Engineering either, at least where I went to school (Erie, PA). Sad.

Blacks aren't into science or engineering because they're too busy being gangsta's thanks to social programming (aka, the media). Why be an engineer? That's not "coo," be a gang banger instead. If you need food or shelter, that's what section 8 and food stamps are for. Funny, it's the liberals who are oppressing blacks the most nowadays. Hollywood and the general media, which are both liberal do nothing but dish out gangsta videos/music and movies, and stupid reality shows with one pregnant black girl and five possible fathers. And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

wthrfrk80 says

Red = Danger (that's why stop signs are red and red means stop)

Black = Evil (the Black Plague, Black Magic, The Dark Side, Darth Vader's costume is black, etc)

Color connotations/associations can also be positive:

Red: energy, excitement, passion, eroticism, desire, lover, courage, joy, vigor, willpower, etc.

Black: elegance, authority, formality, modernity, sophistication, wealth, style, etc.

housingcasino4865 says

Blacks aren't into science or engineering because they're too busy being gangsta's thanks to social programming (aka, the media). Why be an engineer? That's not "coo," be a gang banger instead.

It's happening to white kids too. Example: Eminem and Insane Clown Posse.

leoj707 says

Color connotations/associations can also be positive:

True.

So what explains the bias against blacks then?

wthrfrk80 says

So what explains the bias against blacks then?

The simple explanation would be tribalism, but I don't think that it is that simple. There have probably been many volumes of information trying to accurately answer that question.

housingcasino4865 says

And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

Look up, "How unwanted pregnancies hold you down and ruin your dreams".

Also, look up how the biggest proponents of family planning were once Republicans, including the Bush family's support of Planned Parenthood.

wthrfrk80 says

There's no question blacks were the most oppressed in America, historically.

Are they still actively oppressed? Or is a lot of the poverty just "inertia"?

I really don't know, I'm just an average "white guy."

The minds of the people have not caught up with the times. Many still believe in the methods of the 60s revolution, when in fact, all they need to do is seek opportunities. During the 60s the people turned their backs on white America as had been done to them for 400 years. what you describe is a defensive mechanism....unfortunately, all youth are now following this same approach. IE Hip Hop Thug Nation Being white or black has nothing to do with it...its all about the impoverished thoughts that come with being poor and not knowing opportunity is right around the corner.

wthrfrk80 says

housingcasino4865 says

Blacks aren't into science or engineering because they're too busy being gangsta's thanks to social programming (aka, the media). Why be an engineer? That's not "coo," be a gang banger instead.

It's happening to white kids too. Example: Eminem and Insane Clown Posse.

You are both right, color is not a factor here though. Social and economic status are the culprit....along with piss poor parenting. I wouldnt want my daughter associating with EMINEM, KID ROCK, WILLIE NELSON, TED NUGENT or SNOOP DOGG. They are all miscrients, unfit for a society based on decency.

housingcasino4865 says

Hollywood and the general media, which are both liberal do nothing but dish out gangsta videos/music and movies, and stupid reality shows with one pregnant black girl and five possible fathers. And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

Your right to an extent, as this not only affects blacks but now affects everyone whom have adopted ANY culture of stupidity that I listed below.

My list of miscrients I dont want my daughter around:

1. Biker Gang
2. Street Gang
3. Rock N Roll
4. Hip Hop
5. Welfare
6. Trailer Park
7. Ghetto
8. Tattoo Fiends
9. Racists
10. Drug Abusers
11. Thugs of all kinds (KKK, Black Panthers, Prison Inmates)

Yes, Hollywood and Liberal policies enable stupidity by first projecting an image and then supporting the rights of those same miscrients who impede upon the rights of other citizens. We need stronger incentives for those who assume the lifestyle of any of the above cultures I mentioned to take responsibility for their lives. These cultures generally are not concerned with maintaining dignity but moreso their personal freedoms to roam the earth and impart their form of stupidity on everyone else.

CL says

housingcasino4865 says

And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

Look up, "How unwanted pregnancies hold you down and ruin your dreams".

Also, look up how the biggest proponents of family planning were once Republicans, including the Bush family's support of Planned Parenthood.

I would also reccomend everyone look up EUGENICS and GENOCIDE on youtube. Planned parenthood was once used as a plot to rid society of Africans and native persons all over the world. Now, it rids society of unwanted babies that have a higher chance of growing up to be a miscrient due to the lack of love in their life. Neither is right.

The KKK lynched 500,000 conscious blacks during the early 1900s shredding any dignity that was left, not sure if abortion had the same effect on the mentality of my people....tit truly goes deeper than can be discussed on a computer.

@Clarence: According to contemporary scholarly research, your statistics are incorrect, sir.

It has been established that blacks have killed more blacks than the KKK ever did.
Q: How many individuals did the KKK lynch since the end of the Civil War?
A: from 1884 to 1900. The number of persons lynched in the United States during that period was 2,516. Of these about 66% were blacks, and (interestingly) 33% were whites [see R. Baker, American Magazine, "Following the Color Line," (1908)].
Tuskegee Institute, [now Tuskegee University], is recognized as the official expert credited with accurately documenting lynchings from 1882 through 1968. During that period they report that there were 3,446 lynchings of blacks and 1,297 lynchings of whites.
Before 1882, there were about 2,100 lynchings by KKK members. Assuming all those killed were blacks, we arrive at a maximum number: less than 5,600 blacks were killed by the KKK since its founding.
Indeed, "Lynching Century" states: "From 1865 to 1965 more than 6,000 blacks died in racial violence in the United States." [That is, 6,000 blacks killed by all sources, not by KKK members]. Intra-racial [not inter-racial], being the most prevalent homicide causality.
Thank you for the discussion. Julianna

Post Script: Two of my great great uncles miraculously survived Andersonville Prison Camp.

Clarence 13X says

My list of miscrients I dont want my daughter around:

1. Biker Gang
2. Street Gang
3. Rock N Roll
4. Hip Hop
5. Welfare
6. Trailer Park
7. Ghetto
8. Tattoo Fiends
9. Racists
10. Drug Abusers
11. Thugs of all kinds (KKK, Black Panthers, Prison Inmates)

That is a pretty wide net you are throwing. It is starting make you sound like the movie bad guy who bans dancing in the town.

JuliannaM says

Before 1882, there were about 2,100 lynchings by KKK members. Assuming all those killed were blacks, we arrive at a maximum number: less than 5,600 blacks were killed by the KKK since its founding.
Indeed, "Lynching Century" states: "From 1865 to 1965 more than 6,000 blacks died in racial violence in the United States." [That is, 6,000 blacks killed by all sources, not by KKK members]. Intra-racial [not inter-racial], being the most prevalent homicide causality.

I am not attempting to disprove the number of murders vs lynchings....but attempting to show the effect that lynchings had on my people far outweigh the effect abortions had. Lynchings put my people in the mindset that they were subhuman and unworthy of dignity.

leoj707 says

That is a pretty wide net you are throwing. It is starting make you sound like the movie bad guy who bans dancing in the town.

Would you prefer a gentleman or a miscrient to be your husband? I am anti-lowlife regardless of the color of the persons skin. My kids and family are good, fun loving people....just like the GAP commercials. We aspire to live a righteous life...not as bandits and unkept low lifes. People should aspire to do better in life not espouse stupidity simply because they love tattoos, long hair and freedom of personal choice.

There comes a responsibility with all those freedoms...especially if you choose to follow the wrong cultures.

Clarence 13X says

Would you prefer a gentleman or a miscrient to be your husband?

A gentleman of course, however several of the items on your list are not mutually exclusive with being a gentleman.

Clarence 13X says

My kids and family are good, fun loving people

Yes, this is the aspiration. I think more so that an "righteous" life. Righteous can be defined so many ways many of which are not good, fun loving or gentlemanly. The KKK, Black Panthers for instance thought that they were doing righteous work.

I of course agree with anything on your list that has the words: gang, thug, fiend, or abuse (we may disagree on what exactly a fiend or abuser is though). However, I have two basic issues with your list.

1. Blaming/judging someone for a situation they might not have control over, i.e.- trailer park, welfare and/or ghetto. Those living conditions are all a sign of where someone is in the socioeconomic ladder. Agreed that on average they are "lower class", but that does not mean that there are not many in those situations who are good, fun loving and/or gentlemanly/ladylike. I would not restrict my daughters associations merely because of where someone lives.

2. People can be good, fun loving and/or gentlemanly/ladylike while enjoying rock-and-roll, hip-hop, a tattoo or two, and a drink in the evening.

Also, keep in mind that many miscreants and low-life's appear "normal".

Someone objected that of course blacks murder whites at twice the rate than whites murder blacks, simply because there are many more whites around to get murdered.

Now it occurs to me that if that were valid, it would also be true that most murders of blacks would be by whites, again because again there are so many more whites around to be murderers.

But most murders of blacks are by other blacks. So it seems that blacks are statistically much more violent than whites, and it is in fact rational to be much more afraid of blacks. On average.

. leoj707 says

I would not restrict my daughters associations merely because of where someone lives.

we agree

I do not think I have ever asked my kid where her friends live. I only ask if they have both parents in the house, siblings, stuff like that.

This page is a delightful way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

I have read through most of these comments, some are thought provoking and some, not so much. My opinion about race relations between blacks and whites in america are as follows. While I see progress being made just in my short lifetime, especially with the election of a half black president, racism is still alive and prominent in the U.S, reading some of these comments reflects that, but I do believe we are moving in the right direction and it is going to take many more generations to get there. The Constitution of the United States was written by a man that owned black slaves and signed by many other men who owned slaves, our first president owned slaves. Although slavery was ended, through a bloody war, the institution of racism and opression survived openly in America until the civil rights laws were passed in the 60's. Thats only one or two generations ago, compared to hundreds of years of white supremacy in this country. Maybe in a hundred years or so, the conversation will be a little different.

What happened to the rape statistics thread?

Paul Mooney said something like: If you want to stop Racism, kill all the white people.

It's all about culture. Race is correlated with culture, but it is not causally related. Because race is correlated with culture, and more so in times past with greater geographic isolation, racial appearance was once a reasonably good predictor of cultural affiliation. This is no longer true, clothing is better. Being wary of another's culture is justified and reasonable. Culture is a form of man-made and self-induced reality programing that can and does directly influence our behavior. Hence, we all are, and should be, concerned about the relative health of our various cultural ideologies. Race has simply gotten erroneously thrown into the middle of this challenge due to the age old common sense error of inferring causation from correlational evidence.

housingcasino4865 says

Fact: Red cars are more likely to get pulled over by cops

Actually, this is not a "fact" it is a myth: http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/redcars.asp

Just goes to show that a lot of what people 'know to be true' is no such thing.

Peter P says

What happened to the rape statistics thread?

Squashed by political correctness.

It is very politically incorrect but nonethess a fact that white people are much more likely to be murdered by black people in the US than vice versa.

So a rational white person should be about 100 times more afraid of being killed by a car than being killed by a black person.

Statistically true although the whole truth is more politically correct and means the average white person is even less likely to be murdered.

Murder goes hand in hand with economic disparity (neither relatively well-off people nor equally poor kill each other that often) with those on the loosing side killing each other _much_ more often than those on top.

People like to cite _Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicides: A Tale of Two Cities_ (Sloan at el) as an example showing how American access to guns makes us less safe than Canadians where similar cities (size, geography, etc) are compared although this is incorrect.

Although Seattle and Vancouver are similar cities on opposite sides of the border they have radically different demographics.

At the time of the study white people on both sides of the border had similar economic circumstances and were safer in Seattle with 6.2 murders per 100,000 versus 6.4 per 100,000 in Vancouver.

In Vancouver the minorities were more affluent than average and their murder
rates were not out of line with those of the white population. In Seattle the black and Hispanic per-capita incomes from the 2000 census were about half the white population's ( $18,328 and $17,216 respectively vs $35,641) and murder rates consequently many times higher at 36.6 and 26.9 per 100,000 thus making for a substantially higher aggregate murder rate.

housingcasino4865 says

Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for initial interviews than those with African American-sounding ones.

I think that only proves that "mainstream" names are more trusted than "ghetto" names. A black women named Jennifer may be percieved to be raised with different values than was a black woman named LaKeesha.

To be fair, they should have used "Trailer Court" names for the "white" variable. If you are going to use "La-Isha" style names for blacks, then you should use names like "Jagger," "Nascar," or "Juice" for whites.

While I think statistics are mostly lies, political correctness is a lie laced with poison.

People should not be forced to look tolerant. People should not even try to be tolerant. They should know that differences drive real progress and differences make life interesting. They should embrace differences.

Then we can be true to ourselves and accept consequences of such differences. We must not reject data or reason simply because they are politically incorrect.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 6:12).
Only Truth can set you free..

Patrick, you are looking at the math incorrectly . Think of this example:

You have a room with 100 Canadians, and 10 Americans, and no one knew who was Canadian and who was an American. Each one had one shot at hitting anybody across the room with a ball of yarn. At the end of the game, after everyone had had their one shot, you would end up with the same ratio to population of people hitting someone, ( 8 out of 10 Americans and 80 out of the 100 Canadians) except that the Americans will have hit mainly Canadians, while the Canadians will have hit mostly Canadians as well. ;O) Facebook : Patrick Edgar Regini

patrick regini says

Each one had one shot at hitting anybody across the room with a ball of yarn. At the end of the game, after everyone had had their one shot

But in your analogy, you'd have to admit that not everybody got one shot. The Americans get about 8 times as many shots.

Back to reality: black people are about 8 times more likely to murder someone than white people are.

There were about 3,000 murders committed by white people, and 3,000 murders committed by black people. Yet black people are only 1/8 of the population.

So from a purely rational point of view, you should be about 8 times as afraid of a black person than of a white person, knowing nothing else about them. Such a calculation is racism, and yet it is also undeniably valuable information for self-preservation.

HEY YOU says

Paul Mooney said something like: If you want to stop Racism, kill all the white people.

Paul Mooney was wrong. There is plenty of hatred between African Americans, Hispanic Americans and Asian Americans. The idea that racism is only a problem that white people have is empirically false.

The issue with these statistics is they show correlation but the question remains causation. The #1 driver of gun violence is the drug war. ATF gunwalking into Mexico resulted in a huge increase in gun violence there, part of a drug war that has killed more than 50,000 people, mostly Latino. They did not change color, they merely changed behavior: they had a drug war with a huge arsenal over smuggling profits.

The median likelihood of one person shooting another is near zero regardless of color. If you put the median likelihood black person in a room with the median likelihood white person, even if the room was chock full of guns and ammunition, neither would shoot the other. If they had to stay for a whole day, they might share a pizza.

That's why politicians claiming to care about reducing gun violence, by imposing gun control while continuing the drug war, is so obviously a farce. The gun violence occurs largely among illegal drug gangs, who are by definition breaking the law already. In the US, illegal drug gangs are disproportionately black, so gun violence is also. It would be very interesting to compare gun violence statistics by race today with statistics from the prohibition era - I suspect they would look quite different.

that white people are much more likely to be murdered by black people in the US than vice versa.