patrick.net

Another HOME RUN by HONEST ABE!!!

He's got unconventional beauty.

Honest Abe says

A top rated business coach studied millionaire's and came up with 11 traits millionaires had in common:

I'm curious which "top rated coach" you fail to reference?

And which millionaires did they study?

What is "honest"? In business, that is a slippery word which can mean many things. Could any corporation survive complete honesty? I picture the movie "Liar Liar", perhaps we need a sequel where Lloyd Blankfein and Hank Paulson contract Truth Tourette's, it would be an epic disaster movie!

Jeff Skilling
Bernie Madoff
Charles Ponzi
Angelo Mozilo
John Thain

These people really have all 11 of these qualities? Amazing!

People with many of those qualities are successful, building empires FOR THEMSELVES. If it all burns down after they've looted the safe and skated out of the country, who cares right?

Also far more likely to be psychopaths.

http://www.moneyscience.com/pg/blog/Admin/read/241830/the-corporate-pychopaths-theory-of-the-global-financial-crisis?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCompleteMoneyscience+%28The+Complete+MoneyScience%29

Vincente,

What is honest? I'd use the dictionaries definition. Without any spin.

NOT like Clinton trying to wiggle out of the tight spot he put himself in by saying something like: "Well, it dependends on what the meaning of is is".

Vicente, No, No, No...Skilling, Madoff and the rest of those you listed WERE NOT HONEST PEOPLE. You probably know some millionaires...and I bet they are nice people, right? The few millionaires I've met sure are. They nailed all 11 qualities.

BTW, I read the link you posted and I'm wondering which is worse for America - Corperate psychopaths, or Political psychopaths?

Honest Abe says

What is honest? I'd use the dictionaries definition. Without any spin.

Which dictionary? Which coach? Which millionaires? I'd like to see how this unnamed person determined they were unfailingly and completely honest.

Complete honesty would go very poorly in marketing, sales, negotiation, trading, and advertising.

BUY OUR CDO-SQUARED, they hardly ever blow up and ravage an economy, and anyhow we can sell you some insurance in case they do blow up.

Vicente says

Which dictionary? Which coach? Which millionaires? I'd like to see how this unnamed person determined they were unfailingly and completely honest.

Yes, why not name the coach? I would be interesting to see the methodology of his study.

Apparently 4% of CEOs are psychopaths, 4 times the rest of the population. I wonder how this fits into the unnamed business coaches study of millionaires.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06/14/why-some-psychopaths-make-great-ceos/

Honest Abe says

They were well disciplined
They were honest
They got along with others
They had a supportive spouse
They worked harder than most
They had strong leadership qualities
They had a very competitive personality
They loved their career/business
They were very well organized
They had the ability to sell their ideas/products/vision
They made wise investments

and alot of luck ALOT OF LUCK.. being at the right place at the right time...while others were doing something else.

Vicente says

Complete honesty would go very poorly in marketing, sales, negotiation, trading, and advertising.

They too seem pretty honest to me.. any dirt you want to share.

Dave Thomas, Wendy's
Wally Amos, Famous Amos Cookies
Ben & Jerry's

thomas.wong1986 says

and alot of luck ALOT OF LUCK.. being at the right place at the right time...while others were doing something else.

Yeah, people vastly underestimate the amount of luck involved in financial success. The number one factor being who one is born to.

The number 1 takeaway tip in Trump's get-rich-quick seminars should be "Have rich parents".

Based on the wreckage caused by decades of psycho politicians, I'd say about 96% of ALL POLITICIANS are psychopaths.

IMHO, I'd say luck has very little to do with financial success...UNLESS you mean hitting the jackpot at Las Vegas or the lottery.

BTW, I'd like to add to the list of 11 success factors - (12) LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS, (13) PAY YOURSELF FIRST.

The "coach" will remain unnamed for reasons of confidentiality. I will say he has no political ax to grind. He just reported his findings - no more, no less. I will add that his field of expertise IS sales, where complete honesty will serve anyone much better than the alternative!

Honest Abe says

The "coach" will remain unnamed for reasons of confidentiality. I will say he has no political ax to grind. He just reported his findings - no more, no less. I will add that his field of expertise IS sales, where complete honesty will serve anyone much better than the alternative!

Hmm... yes. So, this "coach" reported his findings only to you then asked you if he could remain confidential in the event you were to share his findings.

Ummm... OK... that does not sound suspicious at all. Are you sure you are not in violation of his second rule?

Anyway, I am sure that you can post his data and methodology, but remove his name from the study so as to preserve his confidentiality.

Honest Abe says

(12) LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS, (13) PAY YOURSELF FIRST.

Oh, are these from you, or the expert "coach"?

Honest Abe says

IMHO, I'd say luck has very little to do with financial success...UNLESS you mean hitting the jackpot at Las Vegas or the lottery.

Yes, I would put you in the category of people who vastly underestimate the role that luck plays in financial success.

Leo, nearly nothing I spout comes 100% from me. I am the sum total of all the books I've read, the college courses I've taken, the businesses I've been involved in, OJT, the school of hard knocks (in life there are only successes or lessons), the mistakes of those around me, the wisdom of those wiser and more financially successful than myself, etc, etc, etc.

So to answer you question, did 12 & 13 come from me, or the coach? Neither, they came from the book by Geo. Classon called The Richest Man in Babylon. If you haven't read it I would suggest that you do. It sure helped make a difference in my life.

BTW, I have not ever found in any college course, any business class, any training course, any financial planning program, any securities classes, anywhere EVER related to LUCK.

Or perhaps I just missed the class called: "Luck - how to turn luck into riches". Where do I register for this or any other similar class to this? I WANT IN !!!

Honest Abe says

BTW, I have not ever found in any college course, any business class, any training course, any financial planning program, any securities classes, anywhere EVER related to LUCK.

Or perhaps I just missed the class called: "Luck - how to turn luck into riches". Where do I register for this or any other similar class to this? I WANT IN !!!

Ah ha, yes good one!

Yes, if luck could be taught it would be the #1 most important business class, and it would be taught.

Too bad it can't because it is the #1 ingredient for financial success.

Soooo... you still working on getting that data and methodology from the "coach"?

This is rich guy hero worship.

Lets make up a list of 11 admirable traits and say that is the makeup of millionaires.

As if you could gather data on a person's "Discipline," "Honesty," "Work Ethic," or "Ability to get along with others."

Please.

Personally if my son has all eleven of these traits I don't give a rats ass if he is a millionaire or not. He would be a success anyway. Even 50%...

david1 says

This is rich guy hero worship.

Lets make up a list of 11 admirable traits and say that is the makeup of millionaires.

Bingo.

David, right on. Money isn't success, its just that thing that pays the bills. It can also be used as a scorecard. But if your son had even a majority of the 11 admirable traits I'd say he, and you, would be a success. Him for being a good human being, you for being a good Dad.

Leo, I still don't get how luck is so prominent ("#1 ingredient for financial success) as a factor for success in your mind.

At this point I'd like to add success trait # 14 -MADE GOOD CHOICES. Of course there will always be extreme results on both ends of the scale. BUT, for the vast majority of people, and the vast majority or businesses, I bet very few success stories are actually based on luck, as opposed to the (new) list of 14 success factors. Here's two questions for you:

In your opinion, what % of success is based simply on LUCK?

True of False: The harder you work, the luckier you get?

Are the (now) 14 traits admirable?

I would also wager that successful people would display, exhibit or embrace all 14 traits, while unsuccessful people would display, exhibit or embrace far fewer of the 14 success traits.

No?

Time for a Cheeseburger.

Honest Abe says

I would also wager that successful people would display, exhibit or embrace all 14 traits, while unsuccessful people would display, exhibit or embrace far fewer of the 14 success traits.

It depends on how you are defining success.

Honest Abe says

At this point I'd like to add success trait # 14 -MADE GOOD CHOICES.

This begs the question, and anyway "good" choices are not always the right choices that lead to financial success.

The only two things on your list that directly result in acquiring millions are both heavily luck based.

Honest Abe says

They had the ability to sell their ideas/products/vision

This begs the question.

thomas.wong1986 says

being at the right place at the right time...while others were doing something else.

One has to have the luck to be in the right place at the right time to sell an idea/product/vision. This requires a lot of luck.

Honest Abe says

They made wise investments

begging the question again.

Also, luck. Either in picking the right investments or the luck to have the connections to get in on investments. Do you think that the same investment opportunities are available for you and I as are available to the top .1%? Most people are born to the top .1% and that is luck.

Honest Abe says

BUT, for the vast majority of people, and the vast majority or businesses, I bet very few success stories are actually based on luck, as opposed to the (new) list of 14 success factors.

People in success stories don't attribute there success to luck. Of course their financial success was all do to their hard work and cunning.

I read an article a few months back asking success advice from people that made a million before 18 or 20 (I don't remember which). Anyway they gave the boiler plate advice, find a need and fill it, etc.

After reading the article I did a little more in-depth research into each of the people and low and behold they all had very lucky positions in life. Born to upper-middle class or rich. If there product was web based, they happened to have an uncle or brother in tech who was able to help them outsource the coding, etc. Luck.

I am not saying that they did not work hard, have a good idea and deserve their success. But a poor kid from the ghetto, with no connections, but the same idea(s) and who fulfills all the non-question begging items on your list would probably not have made a million.

Honest Abe says

In your opinion, what % of success is based simply on LUCK?

That is a good question, I would guess that it varies from person to person. For someone like Donald Trump, Paris Hilton and George W Bush I would guess luck plays a role close to 99.9% in their financial success.

Honest Abe says

True of False: The harder you work, the luckier you get?

False, but I don't think that this is simple enough to boil down to just true/false.

Some people have all the traits on your list, work very hard, yet can never make it happen. Others have maybe %25 of your list, don't work too hard and become incredibly financially successful.

Hard work does not change your luck, but it can prepare you to take advantage of a lucky opportunity when it comes along.

Honest Abe says

The "coach" will remain unnamed for reasons of confidentiality. I will say he has no political ax to grind. He just reported his findings - no more, no less.

WTF????? Your imaginary friend is an authority on rich people.

I've got a "coach" who says that anyone named Abe lives a life of reality-denial, sociopathy, and tortures squirrels and kittens for fun. He has no political ax to grind. He just reported his findings - no more, no less.

Your submission in original post & following deserves to be nominated in the "dumbest posts" thread.

Vicente, I don't know if the coach is an "authority" on rich people but I do know he coaches, talks with, and interacts with rich people all the time - and is himself a multi-millionaire.

That means to me he's PROBABLY more knowledgeable about success, wealth building and the like, compared to you or I.

I'm also missing the connection of my posting attributes of millionaires and your extremely derogatory accusations of me. Why would you even say "tortures squirells and kittens for fun"? That comment is uncalled for, mean spirited, and hurtful. What, now I have to teach you Internet etiquette?

Honest Abe says

Vicente, I don't know if the coach is an "authority" on rich people but I do know he coaches, talks with, and interacts with rich people all the time - and is himself a multi-millionaire.

That means to me he's PROBABLY more knowledgeable about success, wealth building and the like, compared to you or I.

It means to me he's a typical skeezy American "Dream Seller" like Robert Kiyosaki or Napoleon Hill - a perpetual failure at everything until he started selling books about (others') success, probably catapulted to it thanks his book being on some MLM "diamond" recommendation list for downlines.

PS, for a solid criticism of Kiyosaki, check out John Reed's website:
http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

He has a great section on R/E "Gurus" in general:
http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html

Leo, Thumdertips, Vincente, nomo. From your misguided comments its clear to me that none of you fully comprehend the concepts of: Freedom, choice, cooperation, morality, competence, individualism vs. collectivism, dependency, altruism, social pathology, and the reality that liberalism corrupts human character.

Other than your Cluster B type personality disorders, you guys have it nailed!!

Honest Abe says

Vicente, I don't know if the coach is an "authority" on rich people but I do know he coaches, talks with, and interacts with rich people all the time - and is himself a multi-millionaire.

That means to me he's PROBABLY more knowledgeable about success, wealth building and the like, compared to you or I.

Most "wealth" in this country is not derived from hard work but inheritance. You think the Koch brothers started from working in a factory as children and eating dirt? No. Perhaps your bud met some "rich" people but has he met WEALTHY people? As Chris Rock said, Shaq is just rich, the guy who wrote his paychecks was WEALTHY.

What was the purpose of this post? So what. There are a lot of middle class and working class people who also share those traits. Those aren't exclusive characteristics. So what is the point being made?

Hi Ed, Oh I don't know, I guess that by pointing out traits of financially successful people it would be a humanitarian effort to help improve the condition of the poor, downtrodden and underprivileged.

BTW, no poor, downtrodden or underprivileged person ever gave me a job - it was only the successful ones who did. What about you?

Vincent - what proof do you have that "most wealth is ... inheritance"? If you have proof, I'll change my thinking.

Again- not really sure what the point of the post was. What do "downtrodden" people have to do with jobs? Should they be the ones handing out jobs? About half of the jobs I got came from regular people, some with middle class incomes such as when I worked at a Mom-n-Pop resturant in college. I grew up in a rather poor part of the country and can without a dohbt say that there were a LOT of poor people who wern't poor because they were either lazy, lacked a good work ethic, or thought anyone owed them anything.

Honest Abe says

Hi Ed, Oh I don't know, I guess that by pointing out traits of financially successful people it would be a humanitarian effort to help improve the condition of the poor, downtrodden and underprivileged.

So... in an altruistic spirit you thought you would give advice to the downtrodden so they may improve their lot in life?

Great advice like:
-Have the ability to sell your ideas/products/vision
-Make wise investments

Good work Abe! You have done a great service to the downtrodden.

Yea, I guess if I passed out $50 bills you people would complain what a tightwad I was by not handing out $100 bills.

Your condition is this: "I don't have any good ideas of my own, but ALL of Honest Abe's ideas, thoughts, comments and suggestions are junk". Check.

BTW - to prove what shallow thinkers you are, every one of you have failed and refused to divulge what you put into your collective mind. What books are you reading? All of you apparently suffer the "Garbage in - garbage out" syndrome.

Checkmate.

Honest Abe says

Vincent - what proof do you have that "most wealth is ... inheritance"? If you have proof, I'll change my thinking.

Hahahahahah!

You'll CHANGE YOUR THINKING????

You can't even be bothered to post the name of your imaginary friend.

Why should I think any data I could provide no matter how attributed, would gain your respect? Please provide an example where ANYONE here at PatNet has ever changed your mind on anything at all.

Honest Abe says

Checkmate.

Hurray Abe!

Congratulations, once again while your arguments fail to convince you are able to self-declare victory!

Vincente - here's my challenge to you: prove me wrong and I'll stop posting, I'm serious. What PROOF do you have that most wealth is inherited?

Leo - so tell me...what are YOU reading?

Honest Abe says

Leo - so tell me...what are YOU reading?

I try to limit myself to reading drivel posted in internet forums by neo-cons.