patrick.net

Icabod says

In my area lots of super fat and lazy people drive huge SUVs to go and get Dunkin Donuts, Bud Light and scratch tickets. They act as if they own the roads and are on important missions in their pig wagons.

It sounds like you live near where I live. :-)

John Bailo says

Portable computers cost $1,000 for four pounds, equivalent to $250 per pound.

That's why computers aren't sold by the pound. Ground beef is sold by the pound.

wthrfrk80 says

Icabod says

In my area lots of super fat and lazy people drive huge SUVs to go and get Dunkin Donuts, Bud Light and scratch tickets. They act as if they own the roads and are on important missions in their pig wagons.

It sounds like you live near where I live. :-)

You shouldn't eat donuts. Bad for ya.

I don't drink beer very often, only if I'm out for lunch with people I work with and they're all having a beer with their burger. Even then, it's a good microbrew. We have plenty of that here.

Vicente says

So looking at a 9-year total cost of $23,486.83, no inflation corrections applied just summing up the numbers.

Thought this might put things in perspective. A "cheap" car can fool you, all that other stuff really adds up over time.

That's about $200 per month. Some people pay that much for cable tv. Having freedom to go when and where you want at any time is well worth $50.00 a week.

Vicente says

So looking at a 9-year total cost of $23,486.83, no inflation corrections applied just summing up the numbers.

Thought this might put things in perspective. A "cheap" car can fool you, all that other stuff really adds up over time.

I can only imagine what the costs would have been if you had bought a $80,000 Mercedes Benz.

This post confirms what I believe to be true...

That cars have become overpriced pieces of junk.

And the costs just to keep the damn thing running is MORE than what it cost you to buy the god damn thing...

Even Toyotas are expensive. They are much less so than many other cars but still expensive...

bob2356 says

That's about $200 per month. Some people pay that much for cable tv.

Which is a lot. People actually pay that much for cable? lol

Waste of money. TV today is no longer entertaining. It's just a bunch of nonsense like jersey whore and some other dumbed down garbage.

Most entertainment found on TV can be had for FREE on the internet.

Nobody watches TV all that much anymore. Waste of time too...

bob2356 says

Having freedom to go when and where you want at any time is well worth $50.00 a week.

It's nothing new... It's an old technology.

Most people NEED that convenience because of jobs and how the world works. You buy something online today, how does it come?

Through Fedex, UPS or USPS truck...

The old days of walking to your local brick & mortar store right in your town is OVER... Cars are not a luxury anymore and they shouldn't be costing as much as they do.

People also don't seem to bike. I hardly seem to see that many people biking. I remember even in the 90s, I saw plenty of people biking even though cars had been available for such a long time even till then and the gas prices weren't as bad.

But nowadays with gas prices much too high...

These spoiled rotten whining and complaining FAT fucking Americans always love to bitch about the gas prices while they drive a huge fucking v8 SUV... I hardly ever see anyone ride a bike. Very rarely do I see someone besides a illegal mexican and hardly see those either.

bob2356 says

That's about $200 per month. Some people pay that much for cable tv.

Some people also pay that much for cigarettes so they can inhale carcinogens and watch themselves die slowly.

Regardless... It's a waste of money.

I think I paid $15,200 for my brand new 2003 Honda Civic LX. I put 50% down and financed the rest. I paid the car off in two years. So far I put on new Front tires, want replaced the front breaks, timing belt, water pump and oxygen sensor. I'm just reaching 120k miles now.

As for old technology, you could pretty much say the same thing about concrete. It's been around since the roman empire, it should be dirt cheap it so outdated technology. But good luck getting a concrete guy to install your sidewalk or new driveway for next to nothing using this argument.

TechGromit says

But good luck getting a concrete guy to install your sidewalk or new driveway for next to nothing using this argument.

The way concrete is made requires extremely extensive hard labor.

Most cars are not hand-made and assembled. They are made under as much automation as possible in a computerized factory with as little human involvement as can be possible.

Comparing concrete to cars is not something you can compare.

rootvg says

wthrfrk80 says

Icabod says

In my area lots of super fat and lazy people drive huge SUVs to go and get Dunkin Donuts, Bud Light and scratch tickets. They act as if they own the roads and are on important missions in their pig wagons.

It sounds like you live near where I live. :-)

You shouldn't eat donuts. Bad for ya.

I don't drink beer very often, only if I'm out for lunch with people I work with and they're all having a beer with their burger. Even then, it's a good microbrew. We have plenty of that here.

Best thing about riding your bicycle 26 kilometers (16 miles) round trip to work every day like I do: you can consume all the junk food and beer you can handle, with no repercussions!

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Most cars are not hand-made and assembled. They are made under as much automation as possible in a computerized factory with as little human involvement as can be possible.

That is VERY true. It should be noted that some believe that somehow everyone laid off from a auto plant was mechanic..that's not true.

Doing the same things over and over again as a job isn't exactly that sophisticated.

http://www.topnews.in/indian-auto-plants-way-world-top-10-2258436
see anyone working on the lines? not so much.

Actual hand made cars are much more expensive. If someone wanted one it would be on a 100K+ level. At that point relationships with the mechanic are much higher. I wouldn't want to drive something that if a guy sneezed a lug nut was turned too tight and causes an accident etc.

To note I've heard that pinball machines actually have about 10,000 parts. There are hobbiest kits out there for those that want to get into it but it costs the same (10K). Why someone would pay 10k for something to put together with 10k pieces is beyond me.

Michinaga says

Best thing about riding your bicycle 26 kilometers (16 miles) round trip to work every day like I do: you can consume all the junk food and beer you can handle, with no repercussions!

Exactly. Since I started riding, I eat a full breakfast, snack (usually fruit), lunch, snack, dinner - usually 2-3 helpings, and a root beer float before bed (double scoop ice cream) !!

Commute of about 17 miles round trip.

"Look ma, no love handles !"

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

bob2356 says

That's about $200 per month. Some people pay that much for cable tv.

Some people also pay that much for cigarettes so they can inhale carcinogens and watch themselves die slowly.

Regardless... It's a waste of money.

Member of Banking Aristocracy

Who appointed you spending czar? Who cares what people spend money on, it's not a waste in their opinion so who are you to judge? I don't smoke or even own a tv, but I consider the money I spend on cars well worth while.

2001 Honda Civic HX with 152K miles. My plan is to get a 2013 Prius C next year. The model I'm interested in costs a little over $20K and gets 50+ mpg.

I think plug-in's are not worth the money. Same for all electric cars.

jvolstad says

2001 Honda Civic HX with 152K miles.

Keep the civic - those HX models were great little cars.

bob2356 says

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

bob2356 says

That's about $200 per month. Some people pay that much for cable tv.

Some people also pay that much for cigarettes so they can inhale carcinogens and watch themselves die slowly.

Regardless... It's a waste of money.

Member of Banking Aristocracy

Who appointed you spending czar? Who cares what people spend money on, it's not a waste in their opinion so who are you to judge? I don't smoke or even own a tv, but I consider the money I spend on cars well worth while.

Word.

Not everything in life needs to be a financial investment. Some things are emotional investments that bring us happiness. Vacations, nice houses, furniture, clothing, etc.

One of my cars costs me $2980 per month. It's worth every penny to me.

joshuatrio says

Keep the civic - those HX models were great little cars.

Mine has the CVT as well. I like that tranny.

Go get enough people to build you a decent vehicle that will run well, have decent gas mileage, and require no maintenance and just see how cheap it will be.

Not a single illegal who stands in front of a home depot all day long knows how to build an engine, but every single one of them can build you a house. Just to put things in perspective.

SiO2 says

You can get a brand new Nissan Versa for $11k msrp.

I see 14,500 ish with the automatic being $15,770, and it's made in Mexico.

Nissan Versa S sedan starts at $10,990 + destination of $780.
It's surprisingly well equipped. A/C, airbags, skid control, ABS. CD player, trip computer. But, crank windows and locks.
Airbags, skid control, abs are required nowadays, but some of the other low end cars have a/c as an option.

Auto transmission (CVT) brings the msrp to $13,120. but that's hardly a requirement. The manual is likely more durable too, assuming no jackrabbit starts.

The hatch version starts at 14,570, but the sedan is cheaper.

The Versa is surprisingly roomy. I don't imagine that it's much fun to drive, or particularly luxurious, but not everyone cares about that.

at least you know when you buy a car that it is a depreciating asset not like houses which everyone thought was an appreciating asset and now is to be proved wrong.

Yes you can use them to write checks get cash etc. BUT it is a huge masitke!Rip the checks up ASAP they give you 6 months with 0% interest but charge you a fee to cash the check and they know you can't pay it all off in 6 months. They will get thier money from you don't fall into this credit trap!Live debt free! It is a wonderful feeling.

SiO2 says

The hatch version starts at 14,570, but the sedan is cheaper.

Personally I would never buy a car that doesn't have a hatchback. One of the reasons I keep my 1995 Ford Escort is that nobody makes a 2 door hatchback anymore except the Scion tC, which I also won't buy because it has crappy gas mileage and isn't domestic.

LOL few things can make me laugh where I can't stop laughing that's one fine headline.

I will go into cars in a second. Here, well I have a little knowledge. Having owned a small car-lot and a dealers licence. Which is second only in my opinion than being from Detroit for expertise in autos. I grew up not far from Fisher body and the River Rouge. Dearborn (my birthplace) land of the "potential terrorist" or the "terrorist with potential". Detroit, people in many cases know cars by osmosis. Just something you understand if your from there.

It doesn't take much to take these people on the Robber Barron scum. If they were rich many people consider them so they just might be a handfull then. However in reality they are only thieves exactly as noted. See they steal. In addition usury people are lowlife like pimps and gamblers. I guess some people are in awe of them. I treat them as they are: thieves and lowlife though they would clearly like to be someone else. That goes for that gang out of England to known as the "crown" or "commonwealth". I have no respect for them whatsoever seeing what they have done in places like Iraq and Afganistan. Afganistan which they hold so close. That they are now strip mining for many things setting up huge strip mining operations. It's henious what these people do. Thats fairly obvious to many. Usury people, pimps, gamblers are people that "hustle" others as they make their way through life.

They talk a great deal about humanity and their benevolence of. All their invasion based on their philosophy of being humane making sure religion or religious ideology is part of the philosophy. Of course anyone that isn't religous is using all their senses for the most part if they drop the farce of politics. They understand the opposite. Their mission make sure you believe otherwise and make sure the populace dosen't haul out the guillotine as we outnumber them in great, great numbers. NOW you see why they put so much into it and work so hard at it. The monkeys they hire with their one way "freedom of speech" diatribes. The constant barrage of their goodness and responsible behaviour. Once again you can hardly believe the fast talking people they hire can actually get away with not letting on. However you do catch it when they falter. It's good to remember they are sociopaths. Never help a sociopath because you feel its good manners not to see them embarassed. So in conclusion its not that Robber Barron elite scum has any "humanity" they love to steal from you and from me. I suppose Barron has something to do with being a Barron out of somewhere. Then again who knows?

Once again religious people are taught NOT to use their senses. I suggest you never give up that for any reason including politics. Because belief will thwart your sense quickly. Your sense has to do with survival and what you want at any point in your life. Its for you and not for anyone else. Because when push comes to shove no ones going to help you in life. Not in any concrete way like food or shelter. You will notice religous people stick to the script or what they are taught. They won't go far from that. Similar in many ways to political philosophy. Go outside what they have been taught. They get very, very upset. Its like touching "Warren" on the ear in "Something about Mary" in many respects. Another words its child like. So never believe in Democracy or politics, religion of course. Never believe in your Job or especially your "boss". Your wife or anything else. Even me. Believe your senses. If things don't line up with those then your finely tuned. Another words your senses NEVER line up with ANYTHING. Things SHOULD more correctly, line up with your SENSE. If they don't something fucked up. Discard it. One more thing. In the case of the Robber Barron elite scum. They like to leave things out thus fooling your senses. Or scaring you in some way, debt, or maybe even things of a sexual nature. It's part of their survival. In that case just use your sense. Truth is your sense is far, far better than any televsion, radio or anything they have to thwart ones mind. At that point they shift into overdrive making you think you don't have any sense. Fuck them. They are nuttier than squirrels in a lumber yard to begin with. You can tell by what they do. Most of the programming information they put out betrays that like Rupert Murdoch chasing himself through the media. "WIN" a chance to "slop" with the Obamas. Or some "town hall" diversion.

Some people wonder why I hang around here. Without the flattery. You people use your sense more than many that I have encountered. Completely shucking religous underpinnings they so depend on. I learned about such people as you earlier in life. Some don't understand it. I can't dwell with the stupid. Much less a "believer". Thats why I like this web site. In short without the "religous" foundation the "Robber Barron elite scum" has established they are fucked. They must depend on other ways. If those fail they are really fucked so they work overtime.

Ok back to cars. The technology of course which your computer greatly outstrips is fascinating in a car to some people. In short its like a toy. A car is a toy to many people. They focus on one thing they like about that toy in a car like a radio or GPS and they play with it or admire it. Truth of it is a car has a very short life. The cars built in the 80s last just as long as the ones you pay 3 and 4 times as much for now. I can "rag" any car out in about 3 days. Even brand new. See its the engine. They can take only so much. Gravity will make a car settle even if it sits in the garage without being driven. So those doors may not close just right after a while and things may rattle also. A car has a real life of about 160,000 miles depending on how its driven. 180,000 tops then its just something to drive down the road as you clench and squirm about the things that are "wrong" with it. I say planned obsolence. They really can't do anything about it. However raising the price instead of lowering it for what it is. To keep you in debt is one more trademark of their henious doings. In short a car is something that is great when its new. Something you can drive down the road in terror wondering how your going to make the payments when something goes wrong on the jobbie. You know you have to get it all straight or lose your wheels. Same thing with where you live. Or your food of course. Screw up on the jobbie. With your a lifestyle that is nothing but dependence on that jobbie. Your life flashes before your eyes of course in that moment when you screw up or your caught or you misbehave. People once again that just ain't natural. Don't live in terror. It's easier to put something together on the earth for yourself than you know. Take the first step even those "Robber Barrons" could tell you that and your on your way after you make up your mind to do it.

ArtimusMaxtor says

To keep you in debt is one more trademark of their henious doings. In short a car is something that is great when its new. Something you can drive down the road in terror wondering how your going to make the payments when something goes wrong on the jobbie. You know you have to get it all straight or lose your wheels. Same thing with where you live. Or your food of course. Screw up on the jobbie. With your a lifestyle that is nothing but dependence on that jobbie. Your life flashes before your eyes of course in that moment when you screw up or your caught or you misbehave. People once again that just ain't natural. Don't live in terror. It's easier to put something together on the earth for yourself than you know. Take the first step even those "Robber Barrons" could tell you that and your on your way after you make up your mind to do it.

You are very much right about this.

If the majority of people grew their own food, had no property taxes and we had free energy...

No such thing as poverty could exist except for those who refuse to work or are lazy.

There’s an interesting way of placing the term “old technology” in perspective that I often think about. A 1962 Chevrolet Impala, one of the most beautiful cars of that era, is 50 years old this year. Yet a ’62 Impala, or ’62 anything for that matter, can travel on the highway or street with barely more than a second glance, and that usually an admiring one. It can hold its own in any measure of performance or comfort with that of a current model. However, in 1962, a 50 year old Chevrolet (1912--Chevy’s first year) was of such a rudimentary stage of development that it was barely out of the horseless carriage era, not even having a self-starter, and could in no way hope to equal the performance or comfort capabilities of the 1962 model, or even one in the 20’s! Its presence on a 1962 street or highway would be an occasion for great amazement and interest on the part of other motorists and the 1912 car would most likely be found only in antique car shows such were its limited capabilities. It indeed looked and performed like an “old” car. Progress continued throughout the 20’s and 30’s, but when World War II started, automobiles were still at a stage that makes them seem by comparison to today’s models “old” cars: slow, black and lumpy.

When the ’46 models once again began rolling off assembly lines at the end of ’45, they were still riding on a chassis that had been developed for the environment of the mid to late 30’s, then frozen in place for five years. In 1949, all Big Three manufacturers abandoned the 30’s design for what came to be known as the three-box design, establishing the basic envelope of the automobile for the next 50 years. By 1955, every line of car, including the low-priced three of Chevy, Ford and Plymouth could be bought equipped with a powerful V-8, automatic transmission, power steering and brakes, radio and heater and most importantly factory installed air-conditioning—which had first been used by Packard in 1940, but abandoned after the war. In six years, every discomfort and inconvenience that had plagued motoring since its beginning in 1900 had been eliminated, making it possible to drive anywhere at any time of the year in complete ease and comfort. In the intervening 57 years, electronics and computers have replaced hydraulics and vacuum in most control systems, service intervals have been greatly extended, safety and emission controls have been added, but the basic layout of a 2011 car is not that remote from one of 1955. That’s why a 1955 Chevy or Pontiac can be driven in modern traffic with barely a nod to the 57 years separating the current models.

I agree 100% with the premise that cars are overpriced and should've decreased dramatically in price for being over a century old in technology and innovation. People are totally oblivious to the actual price; because, all they see are the monthly payments. If the actual price or MSRP were explicitly advertised, there would be mass protests all over the streets for price gouging. The root cause if the high price is attributed to the unions, where in some cases employees make in excess of $60/hour. Most doctors and lawyers don't make that much! In the free market, companies compete for customers by producing high-quality products for the lowest prices. They win by getting the customer's business and customers win by buying something valuable at an affordable price. Nowadays, the system is totally broken. Companies are constantly cutting corners with inferior materials and are forced to line the pockets of their unionized employees, which do way more harm than good. Bottom line: cars are grossly overpriced and are thus because most people are completely oblivious or complacent to the status quo.

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Probably on purpose. Some type of fraud. I'm with you, and Patrick mentioned this once also, a very cheap car should be made. Only power brakes and power steering. Disc brakes, air bags and a proven 4 cylinder. Basic basic basic for under $10k. They'd sell faster than ice cubes in the Sahara. And they could probably get, what, 25-30 mpg? But, I don't think that's the plan for us plebes.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Yes, it's a scam. Just about everything is.

The technology has improved such as fuel mileage and corrosion prevention. They also last a lot longer than cars made in the 1970s - 1990s. Hence, view the cost as far as total ownership costs for vehicles that last for at least 12 to 15 years.

The cheapest cars are $17,000 to $20,000.

https://www.motor1.com/features/631073/cheapest-cars-trucks-suvs-2023/

.

Cars don't have to have 4 cylinders anymore, nor do they need a huge power battery.
They could make a car with a 15hp Small engine powering a generator and power the electric motors directly..
Cars don't have to be as fancy or as heavy as they are either.

ad, still seems like they could build an even cheaper car. If the government is going to be in the mandating business and they wanted to promote their greenie paradise, they could mandate a very cheap car with pretty good gas mileage. It would probably do a good job of getting the older cars off the road.

GNL says

ad, still seems like they could build an even cheaper car. If the government is going to be in the mandating business and they wanted to promote their greenie paradise, they could mandate a very cheap car with pretty good gas mileage. It would probably do a good job of getting the older cars off the road.

I read that new and small cars in India such as Tatas sell for less than $10,000. I suspect its just not financially attractive for GM, Ford, Honda, Nissan, etc. to sell that cheap of a car.

Ford, with its UAW workforce, makes most of its profit from trucks like the F 150 as well as its mid size to large SUVs.

Cheapest car I could find in the USA is around $17,000 MSRP for a Nissan. Look at it and it still has high-tech features compared to 25 to 30 years ago.

Each 5 year period brings new technology due to government regulations and/or consumer trends.

...

I did look at the link. I thought the Ford pickup was interesting. And, for the first time, that I know of, I saw one of them on the road today.

GNL says

I did look at the link. I thought the Ford pickup was interesting. And, for the first time, that I know of, I saw one of them on the road today.

Yeah the Ford Maverick truck is made in Mexico and that explains why it is not expensive.

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/ford-maverick-least-american-truck

Our 2021 Honda CRV is about 73% made in USA with non union labor. Its more American made than the Ford Maverick.

.

ad says

Yeah the Ford Maverick truck is made in Mexico and that explains why it is not expensive.

It's a hybrid and there's no gas only option. No go for me.

Tenpoundbass says

It's a hybrid and there's no gas only option. No go for me.

The hybrid version adds $1500. There is a gas only option for the Ford Maverick and out the door or net price is around $25,000.

https://shop.ford.com/configure/maverick/config/paint/Config%5B%7CFord%7CMaverick%7C2024%7C1%7C1.%7C...PNE...999.XL.%5D

Not very powerful this is the AWD option.

zachj says

The root cause if the high price is attributed to the unions, where in some cases employees make in excess of $60/hour.

Labor comprises only 5% of a car's cost these days.

Tenpoundbass says

Cars don't have to have 4 cylinders anymore, nor do they need a huge power battery.
They could make a car with a 15hp Small engine powering a generator and power the electric motors directly..
Cars don't have to be as fancy or as heavy as they are either.

Could and will are 2 different things. By not offering basic models, they are forcing people to buy more expensive and profitable models. Even something like the most base Chevy Trax has a ton of standard items that you don't need, like:

Automatic Emergency Braking
Forward Collision Alert
Front Pedestrian Braking
Following Distance Indicator
Lane Keep Assist with Lane Departure Warning

And the above mentioned items use sensors that are in the windshield / bumper / light assembly that are expensive and going to require programming if they ever need to be replaced.

You also don't need cruise control, traction control, air bags, Engine air filter life monitor, and you are better off with a regular manual parking brake than the standard electronic parking brake. I would also hate the capless fuel fill, which is also going to cause problems eventually, especially if you live someplace that does emissions testing. It also comes standard with power windows, which, I have also found to be extremely unreliable in the long run. The body colored door handles means that if you break a door handle, it's also not a cheap fix. I will also hate the Tire Pressure Monitoring System since that is also something else I don't need or want that's going to increase maintenance costs.

On a more expensive vehicle it's only going to have more of this extra crap that you don't need.