patrick.net

Buddhists are not the problem, it's Western people that think they can be enlightened by prostrating them selves before a Bloomingdale's Tchotchke light a few Nag Champa incense knock offs from Spencer's, then recite their daily affirmation of "Oh-Um".

But then the next day, pass legislation you have to pass before you know what's in it.

CaptainShuddup says

Buddhists are not the problem, it's Western people that think they can be enlightened by prostrating them selves before a Bloomingdale's Tchotchke light a few Nag Champa incense knock offs from Spencer's, then recite their daily affirmation of "Oh-Um".

thanks. It's always good to get the opinion of a grouchy old curmudgeon to really round out a discussion.

Meanwhile on the biggest western Buddhist forum Dhamma Wheel for Theravada Buddhism " the way of the elders " www.dhammawheel.com/.. The Buddhism of South Asia ( DHARMA Wheel is mostly Tibetan and Zen ) things have taken a very odd turn.
Last time I popped in there were lots of solemn discussions analysing the Buddhas words in great detail...but someone appears to have sprinkled the whole shebang with fairy dust..multi-colored posts now introduce the readership to various celebs, The merits of Elvis are extolled. An ancient slim Elvis. A whole thread is devoted to celeb Buddhists, complete with ancient grainy pics.
The merits of Rogers And Hammersteins South Pacific are vaunted.
Very peculiar. ( One wonders if the Global Moderators are channelling the shade of Liberace.) And whether intentional or not ( my own personal Tibetan spirit guide Lu-Nee, suspects not ) very funny.

See " Super Famous Buddhists ", currently on page 2.

The Original Bankster says

Makes me want to mow down the entire parking lot party at a grateful dead concert with A FUCKING AK-47! That'll be 300 50-something dentists, tax attorneys, and nose-and-throat specialists that this fucking American WILL NOT MISS.

Ok now. You know in light of the recent shootings-forget it -no arguing with crazy. I am sure you will come back with another vomit of profanity and crazy talk.

Having spent some days flitting in and out of various Buddhist sites I have reached some provisional conclusions..
Western Buddhism is in its dotage, and may be moribund.
I am aware of the possibility of projection and wishful thinking,,but I think the signs are clear.
The fact that it has shifted down into " meditation classes " in your local library is proof of its decline as a serious influence among westerners.
The heady days of Ginsburg and Kerouac on the one hand hand, and Buddhism as a serious academic study on the other, are gone.
The far fetched but noble philosophy of the Buddha has been reduced to a rump circling the wagons, and to a wide selection of shiny wrist malas.
The astonishing speed which this process of maturation and then decline has occurred is no doubt due to the internet.
It was one thing for individuals and small groups to come across this exotic creed, the religious equivalent of dim sum or biriyani, and quite another to have the sheer absurdity of much of its belief system..the literal doctrine of rebirth, the plodding transparent daftness of " karma"..not to speak of reincarnated masters and nature spirits who speak Tibetan, and to have that belief system exposed to the bracing breeze of western analytical thought..
I strongly suspect that what we might call " authentic" Buddhism has peaked..
And will by mid century be in the western hemisphere confined to ethnic subgroups and aging hippies.

The promise it once seemed to hold in a post Christian world to those in search of meaning has proved hollow.

It is just another variation on the myth of the never ending circle..aimless and eternal, which has kept Asia enslaved and slumbering as the centuries pass.

A reminder over the last couple of days on www.dharmawheel.net/ of the deep homophobia to be found in Buddhism.
Under a current thread called " Hsuan Hua and Homosexuality " expressions of deep aversion to gay people and gay sex are open and unapologetic.
The Dalai Lama is quoted as one Buddhist teacher who has made public pronouncements on the matter. In a now notorious public teaching he made it clear that higher states of consciousness ( sic ) are not available to those who practice gay sex...because it " blocks the channels "..
This is echoed in the teachings of other prominent Buddhists.
Basically folks,in the eyes of Buddhism gays are in danger of being reborn in hell states...
No different in fact then to the views of any Southern Baptist preacher.
But slicked over with a sparkling veneer of schmaltzy "compassion."

Should anyone feel inclined to voice their concern at the level of homophobia being perpetrated on www.dharmawheel.net/ the owners name is David H Snyder, and he can be contacted by Personal Message by anyone who registers with dharma wheel.

Oh-Kay...I guess it should come as no surprise that some western Buddhists do not believe that the earth revolves around the Sun.......am I serious ?
Click on www.dharmawheel.net/ and under View Active Topics, find..." Another Look At The Solar System "...enjoy.

Nassim Hassein or whatever. Religious people often embrace a lot of woo. It's not unusual to see Fundies who embrace the Zombie Carpenter also embrace Ancient Aliens, the Chupacabra, and Fake Moon Landings.

It appears that a proportion of Buddhists believe that the Sun is solid.
Go to www.dharmawheel.net/ Active Topics.. " Another Look At The Solar System " and a new thread " Plasma Cosmology".

I assume that this is all part of a master plan to undermine the science that undermines their delusional systems.

It frankly baffles me that these people seem completely unable to see the damage that is being done to their own cause...The " Another Look At The Solar System " thread continues to be a source of mirth....

What is your fascination with Buddhism?

Bigsby says

What is your fascination with Buddhism?

It started as an unrelated trawl through Buddhist sites for a completely different purpose that i wont bore you with. I became interested in Buddhism's image of itself as rational in contrast to what many Buddhists see as the irrationality of Theistic religions. It became clear that Buddhism is at LEAST as deeply irrational as any Theistic creed...
I thought that deserved commenting on.
More recently it has simply been a source of fun and a look at the capacity for human beings to kid themselves.

ODham says

It started as an unrelated trawl through Buddhist sites for a completely different purpose that i wont bore you with. I became interested in Buddhism's image of itself as rational in contrast to what many Buddhists see as the irrationality of Theistic religions. It became clear that Buddhism is at LEAST as deeply irrational as any Theistic creed...
I thought that deserved commenting on.
More recently it has simply been a source of fun and a look at the capacity for human beings to kid themselves.

A quick look at the topics in that forum is enough to tell you all you need to know. No need to waste your time actually reading the threads. A bit like this forum really.

You are probably right Bigsby. Such point as there was has probably been made.
Interesting though...at least two attempts have been made by the powers that be at Dharma Wheel to stop folk from reading the thread, and one to block traffic between it and www.dharmawheel.net/

Looks like someone was reading.

ODham says

You are probably right Bigsby. Such point as there was has probably been made.

Interesting though...at least two attempts have been made by the powers that be to stop folk from reading the thread, and one to block traffic between it and www.dharmawheel.net/

Looks like someone was reading.

That's quite amusing.

First, there are a rather large # of different buddhist sects, based on different sutras and cultures. It is true, for example, that Tibetan buddhism believes in spirits. Other sects, such as the various Nichiren sects, do not.

Second, the idea that buddhism is "rational," or a "philosophy" more than a religion is a distinctly western interpretation and probably arose with the importation of Zen into the U.S. back in the 50s.

Carry on.

The Original Bankster says

LORD I how loathe these fucking sanctimonious RETARDS who think their LIMITED UNDERSTANDING of Buddhism is some kind of credible hallmark of spirituality and 'higher-mindedness'. Makes me want to mow down the entire parking lot party at a grateful dead concert with A FUCKING AK-47! That'll be 300 50-something dentists, tax attorneys, and nose-and-throat specialists that this fucking American WILL NOT MISS.

Tell us how you really feel.

Jeez. Putrid hate oozing out of every pore. You must be so proud of yourself.

I understand that you are envious of successful grounded balanced people. But dude, hope is not lost. Maybe start by just going to the gym a couple times a week, and work your way up from there.

Snapdragon says

Other sects, such as the various Nichiren sects, do not.

Nichiren believes that the Special Buddha, Amida, can bring people into Enlightenment without all the meditation work that Zen pushes. In that aspect, it's a Savior Religion.

Both www.dhammwheel.com/ and www.dharmawheel.net have been down for several days. Probably " bad karma " for all that homophobia.

Or maybe direct action for the same reason.

Or maybe thats what karma is...allow your website to put out hate and it comes back...

ODham says

Buddhism let us remind ourselves, takes pride in its rational nature.
Not like those "silly theistic religions."
I recently dropped back in to www.dharmawheel.net/ after an absence of some months,

Thanks ODham, I checked it out.
Buddhism is fascinating as it is the only major religion that does not get involved in violence or human rights abuse.
I just don't go along with the concept of rebirth.
Once you're gone, you're gone.

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Thomas K says

PUBLIC NOTICE

Is this the same schizophrenic conspiracy theorist that has posted here under several other names ?

Yes, yes...it's all part of their master plan.

Also, they're watching you and everything you do. Better change your username again. And be careful, they have your IP address and they know where you live !!

marcus says

Yes, yes...it's all part of their master plan.
Also, they're watching you and everything you do. Better change your username again.

I saw it on the internet, so it must be true.

I read that Obama was born in Kenya. They even had a copy of his Kenyan birth certificate on there.